Healing in the Atonement?

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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#41
But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children’s bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
Mark 7:27​

This was a strong statement that Jesus made to a woman that came to ask Him to heal her daughter. Jesus was telling her that she had no right to ask for healing, since she wasn’t Jewish. Wisely and remarkably, this woman humbled herself and pleaded for mercy instead of trying to demand her rights. She didn’t have any rights. And when Jesus had mercy on her, she returned home to find her daughter healed. It’s that simple. She received based on Jesus, not on what she deserved.


If God heals today, then where is it? How do I get it manifest? You believe it works, but you don’t know how. Maybe you’ve seen someone stand and not get healed. Or maybe you have stood for your own healing and have not seen it manifest. Whichever it is, your faith has been shaken as a result. Well, I want you to know that God wants you well. And I want to share with you how it works.

One of the things you have to be convinced of before you even approach this is that healing is in Christ’s atonement. Look at what it says here in 1 Peter, talking about Jesus:
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1 Peter 2:24​

Notice how it says Jesus took stripes for your healing! It’s yours! It’s one of the things Jesus bought for you through His sacrifice! And this verse says, “Ye were healed” (emphasis mine)—past tense. This is such a clear statement that I wonder how any Christian could not believe that. But I’ve learned that many people don’t let the Bible get in the way of their theology. Even some who believe God can heal don’t believe He will or has already healed. They say things like, “Well, God heals but not all the time. Sometimes it’s not His will.” But it’s hard to argue with a past-tense statement like that of 1 Peter 2:24.


It’s taken from a prophecy Isaiah gave in Isaiah 53, which says,


But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

Isaiah 53:5​

Some people try to make this mean Jesus only took stripes for our spiritual healing. Well, he did suffer for our spiritual health, but let’s look at how the prophecy was fulfilled, in Matthew 8:


When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: [17] That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias
[Isaiah] the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

Matthew 8:16-17, brackets mine​

This makes it clear that Jesus suffered for your healing! It belongs to you.


Healing is the children’s bread. It’s your portion.
It’s what God has given to you. If you’re a Christian, healing belongs to you! If you just meditate on the implications of this for a while, it’d go a long way in seeing healing manifest. You’d just realize, I don’t have to be sick.That’s exactly right.


Many people believe that God wants them well, but they don’t understand how it works. I’ve got a lot of revelation on this. I don’t know it all. I haven’t arrived, but I’ve left and I’ve seen awesome miracles, including my own son being raised up after over four hours of death.

These are regular people just like you and me. Don’t think that they are better than you or more spiritual—that is not what this is about. This is about what Jesus paid for and not about your performance. This isn’t just hearsay. You can see and hear these testimonies and eighteen others online.


From the time Hannah Terradez was born, she had a rare autoimmune disease called eosinophilic enteropathy, which meant her body built up allergies to nearly every kind of food. Her immune system would attack food she’d eat and then reject it. There was no known cure, only a radical survival method: a feeding tube. And at the age of three years old, she was still wearing nine-month-old baby clothes!


But one day, her parents, Ashley and Carlie, got hold of one of my old tapes and heard me say, “By His stripes, we were healed.” After the tape finished, they’d heard the nearly-too-good-to-be-true news. Hope began to arise in their hearts. Carlie said, “We’d never heard Scripture revealed so clearly and simply. The Word took root in our hearts and became more real to us than what the doctors were saying.” Then Carlie realized that Hannah had spoken like this every night for their bedtime prayer, saying, “Dear Jesus, thank You for loving me and for healing me.” They just realized that in her childlike faith, she had been praying a profound truth all along. It was a done deal!


The next day, they found where I was holding meetings and brought Hannah to have me pray for her. I told them it was a piece of cake for God to heal her and all they needed to do was agree with me in prayer. I took authority over Satan, telling him to leave, and commanded Hannah’s body to stop attacking food and to be well. Then I told Ashley and Carlie they needed to walk out what they believed. They would have eased her into a normal diet, but once again, Hannah was ahead of them, saying, “I want to go to McDonald’s!” And that settled it for Ashley and Carlie. They couldn’t find a McDonald’s, so they took her to Kentucky Fried Chicken, where she ate chicken nuggets, ice cream, yogurt, cheese, chocolate, and fruit juice for the first time in her life! She’s been eating normally ever since! Praise the Lord!


How did this happen? They got hold of the truth that by Jesus’ stripes, Hannah was healed, and then with childlike faith—BOOM—her healing manifested! And it wasn’t just because I prayed for them. They had to stand on this for themselves when the symptoms tried to come back.


Let me share with you one more testimony. This one’s about Mike Hoesch. Back in 2000, he had an itch on his chest that persisted, and when he examined the area, and he noticed a pimple-sized sore. He dismissed it, but the itch remained.


Months passed and the sore hadn’t gone away; it began to worsen. Although he believed in healing, he’d been involved with a ministry for twenty years that focused on performance-based doctrine. So, while he knew healing was available, he believed it was conditional upon his efforts. He continued to suffer, as the sore began to grow.


After trying herbal remedies, to no avail, he went to see a doctor, thinking it was no problem. But when he learned it was a malignant neoplasm, a cancerous skin tumor, he panicked! But not wanting to do anything driven by fear, Mike cancelled his appointment with the surgeon.


Over the next several years, the growth became a very large and troublesome tumor requiring cleaning and bandaging several times a day. The tumor slowly drained the life out of him, and in his weakened condition, he was forced to quit his job.


Mike purposed in his heart that he would seek the Lord and spend time in His Word. While his intentions were good, he struggled as he began to see things in the Word contrary to what he had been taught over the previous twenty years. Still confused, he began confessing healing Scriptures, not out of understanding, but out of a desire to earn his healing.


One day, as he was wrestling with faith and his beliefs, a friend brought him my teaching You’ve Already Got It!. As he began listening, the Lord confirmed things He had been showing Mike in the Word. He started rejoicing: “It just blessed me so much when I heard Andrew sharing these things. It was like, yes, yes, I’ve already got it! I was waiting for the Lord to intervene again on my behalf, but he had already done that in Christ. Everything that I had, every sickness, disease, or sin that I’ll ever commit or had committed—Christ bore!” With his faith strengthened, Mike completely let go of his tumor, switching his focus to Jesus, to receive what He had provided.


A month after this, his wife noticed the tumor had decreased in size. At one time, this would’ve sent Mike through the roof rejoicing, but because of his newfound steadfastness in the Word, his reaction was one of calm expectancy. He had come to realize the cancer had to leave because of what Jesus had already done for him, and about five months later, his chest was clear.


These are just two examples of how it works! You may have a different situation, but these same truths will work for you too. Remember, healing is your bread—it belongs to you. Once you have that settled, your childlike faith will be rekindled that God has already done it. Then you need to take your authority over the devil and walk out what you believe.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#42
I just wanted to repost the theological comments I made about the "ALREADY" and the "NOT YET!" I know a few people read it, but it needs to be read by everyone.


"Here are some non-Biblical words, the ALREADY and the NOT YET! But the principles are found everywhere in the NT, and they are ignored by the Word Faith movement. We are NOT YET in our glorified bodies, where there will be no sickness or tears anymore.

Jesus announced the coming Kingdom as having arrived with His own coming. The Spirit's coming in fullness and power were also signs that the Kingdom had arrived.Yet, the End of this age apparently had not taken place. Evil and its effects are still very much in evidence.

Believers in the NT came to realize that Jesus had not come to usher in the "final" End, but the beginning of the End. Thus they came to see that with Jesus' death and resurrection, and with the coming of th eSpirit, the blessings and the Future had already come. In a sense, therefore, the End had already come. But in another sense, it had not yet come. Thus they saw the Kingdom, and salvation as both already and not yet.

The early believers saw themselves as truly eschatological people, who lived "between the times" that is between time of the beginning of the end, and the consummation of the End. There is a tension, living between the times, in which some things have been fulfilled, but others are promises to do with the glorification of our bodies, when Christ returns.


At the Lord's Supper, they celebrated their eschatological existence by proclaiming "the Lord's death until he comes."1 Cor. 11:26. They ALREADY knew God's friend full forgiveness, but they had NOT YET been perfected. (Phil. 3:7-14). ALREADY death was theirs (1 Cor. 3:220 YET they would still die (Phil. 3:20-22). ALREADY they lived in the Spirit, YET they still lived in the world where Satan could attack. ALREADY they had been justified and faced no condemnation, YET there was still to be a future judgment. They had been conditioned by the future; they knew its benefits, lived in its values. But they still had to live out these benefits and values in the present world.

The Corinthian church had errors, which the Word Faith movement is repeating, was to emphasize the ALREADY in such a way they almost denied the continuing presence of the world. They saw Christ only as exalted (which he is!) but not as crucified.They believed that the only thing that glorified God was signs and wonders and powers. Because God heals, he must heal everyone. There is no place for weakness or hunger or thirst or sickness in this kind of eschatological existence.

This false theology lay the the very heart of the Corinth rejection of Paul. His bodily weaknesses did not commend his apostleship. An apostle should be "spiritual, eloquent, living in glory, and perfect health. They rejected Paul and his theology of the cross, (with its ongoing suffering in the present age) because they saw themselves as more spiritual, redeemed from such weakness. In their view, Paul looked like anything but an apostle of their "glorious" Jesus.

Paul tries everything in his power to get them back to his gospel. In 1 Cor. 1:18-25, he reminds them that the gospel has as its very base a "crucified Messiah."

"8 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”
20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach[
a] to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men." 1 Cor. 1:18-25 ESV


For the Corinthians, that's like saying "fried ice." Messiah means "power, glory, miracles; crucifixion means weakness, shamed suffering. Thus, they gladly accepted false apostles who preached "a different gospel" with "another Jesus."

"For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough." 2 Cor. 11:4 ESV

Paul explains to them the true nature of apostleship, which has a glorious message, but it is proclaimed by a less-than-gloriousmessengers.

"But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us." 2 Cor.4:7

In 2 Cor, chapters 10-13 Paul attacks their false teachers head on! I will only post a brief excerpt, but do read these chapters, realizing that Word Faith heresy was met straight on by the apostle Paul, who boasted in being foolish, and weak. Not strong, rich or healthy.


" I repeat, let no one think me foolish. But even if you do, accept me as a fool, so that I too may boast a little. 17 What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not as the Lord would[a] but as a fool.18 Since many boast according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19 For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20 For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face. 21 To my shame, I must say, we were too weak for that!
But whatever anyone else dares to boast of—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast of that." 2 Cor. 11:16-21

"But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong." 2 Cor. 12:9-10


"since you seek proof that Christ is speaking in me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you. 4 For he was crucified in weakness, but lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but in dealing with you we will live with him by the power of God.
5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test! 6 I hope you will find out that we have not failed the test. 7 But we pray to God that you may not do wrong—not that we may appear to have met the test, but that you may do what is right, though we may seem to have failed. 8 For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. 9 For we are glad when we are weak and you are strong. Your restoration is what we pray for. 10 For this reason I write these things while I am away from you, that when I come I may not have to be severe in my use of the authority that the Lord has given me for building up and not for tearing down." 2 Cor. 13:3-10


I wish I could just copy and paste all of chapters 10-13, they so powerfully rebuke the entire Word Faith heresy. We do not have perfect health or perfect wealth in this life time. But, are caught between the ALREADY and the NOT YET! The future is not this present age! Our bodies are not yet perfected. In this present age, even some of God's choicest servants continue to be perfected through suffering, as was the Son of God himself.


"Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. 9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him," Hebrews 5:8-9

Again, WHEN do we receive our perfect, resurrection bodies? When Jesus returns. John writes in Revelation, that we will not have mourning, nor crying nor pain anymore. Why? Because they have finally passed away. And notice, in this last book of the Bible, written last, and in the second last chapter, the use of "will" to say this is a future event. It did NOT happen when Christ was resurrected, but it WILL happen, when he returns! Or did all these people not have enough faith to blast away their pain?

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling placeof God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. 4 He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.” Rev. 21:3-4
That is an important concept.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#43
I don't know why individuals so well versed in the Bible and "hermeneutics" always seem to avoid where Isaiah 53:4 has been quoted in the New Testament in the context of healing.

Isaiah 53:4 King James Version (KJV)

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.


Matthew 8:13-17 King James Version (KJV)

13 And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour.
14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
15 And he touched her hand, and the fever left her: and she arose, and ministered unto them.
16 When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.


Now the reason I brought this back to verse 13 is to see the heart of Jesus. He was healing people all of the time. He is still alive today, His heart the same. As for the healing context we see Isaiah 53:4 being quoted in Mathew 8:17 as Jesus delivered people and "healed all that were sick."

Someone would have to be willfully ignorant, nearly deceptive, to say that physical healing is not found in Isaiah 53 (especially after being shown this before) and is only talking of "spiritual healing." Too many times have these verses been paralleled and unaddressed, ignored.

God, our Father in the OT presented Himself with a name that defines Him.
Jehovah Rapha, the Lord that heals. It is His very nature to heal. All throughout Jesus' ministry He healed. We see God Almighty healing all of the time, throughout history. People often point to spiritual healing, but look at these verses by King David as he spoke about physical healing in the same breath as he spoke of spiritual healing.

Psalm 103:1-5 King James Version (KJV)

103 Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name.
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;
5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.


God is faithful, he saves us from sin and sickness.

​Amen Ben. Worth re posting.
 
Dec 4, 2017
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#44
I appreciate your post pin. There is so much to be seen in the anointing oil, and experienced in the anointing, forvthis is Holy Spirit. The wine can represent His blood, but also the fruit of joy. Righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost!

But, it's His body and His blood of atonement who heals us. Communion with Him. To "know" this is to receive the Divine nature of His life. And He heals all of us to wholeness.

Ive also found to be true that healing comes in the glory! The presence of Holy Spirit who comes into the meetings, and touches us in many different ways. He truly provides all our needs.

God is so good and loving to us His own.

A new revelation of the failure of Cain has come to me from looking at the blood covenant. This is from Trumbull who wrote about this. Abel gave of himself to the Lord with his offering. Completely gave himself, his all. Cain, just what was required, but of the cursed ground..

Much to think about with this.
Amen
In looking forward to the full moon rising in the west this yr.
i was reminded of the bread with oil and what our Lord said concerning his body.
The pure table

[FONT=&quot]On the first day for matzah, the talmidim came to Yeshua and asked,
“Where do you want us to prepare your Seder?”
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Go into the city, to so-and-so,” he replied, “and tell him that the Rabbi says, ‘My time is near, my talmidim and I are celebrating Pesach at your house.’” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

The talmidim did as Yeshua directed and prepared the Seder.

[h=1]Leviticus 24 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)[/h]24 (vii) Adonai said to Moshe,
“Order the people of Isra’el to bring you pure oil from crushed olives for the light, to keep lamps burning always. 3 Outside the curtain of the testimony in the tent of meeting, Aharon is to arrange for the light to be kept burning always from evening until morning before Adonai ; this is to be a permanent regulation through all your generations. 4 He is always to keep in order the lamps on the pure menorah before Adonai.
5 “You are to take fine flour and use it to bake twelve loaves, one gallon per loaf. 6 Arrange them in two rows, six in a row, on the pure table before Adonai. 7 Put frankincense with each row to be an offering made by fire to Adonai in place of the bread and as a reminder of it. 8 Regularly, every Shabbat, he is to arrange them before Adonai ; they are from the people of Isra’el, as a covenant forever. 9 They will belong to Aharon and his sons; and they are to eat them in a holy place; because for him they are, of the offerings for Adonai made by fire, especially holy.
This is a permanent law.”


[/FONT]
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#45
So do you tell people who were not healed that their sins are not atoned for?
It what the kind of healing that lasts forever that we are concerned with atonement for sin . It is made up of that not seen ,We walk by faith, not by sight.

No such thing as a sign gift, the words sign and gift will not be found in any like context in which they compliment each other.. Signs that men seek after are for those who rebel .
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
113
#46
Theres a lot said about leprousy in the OT Angela. It's a disease found in the blood that manifests as corruption in the body. Unclean. The life of one, animal or man is found in the blood. The blood of Jesus, is of God Himself. Uncorrupted eternal life is found there. If you can receive this truth, it will change your thinking.

We have His Spiritual DNA, in our spirit. Am sure you have seen the Greek explanation of His Spirit intertwining within , like braiding, another English word to describe.

No death is present. Pure blood teeming of life! Or pure life. That is what we have within. If we walk in this, walk in Spirit, as spiritual men and women of God, do you not think that life will affect our souls, and our bodies? Nor do we live in the lust of the flesh. That is not a sexual lust alone!

How would you explain this?

If that same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead, lives in you, then He will quicken your mortal body by that same Spirit, that raised Him from death. Life!

We aren't to dwell in, "dead to sin"... ...but "alive unto God". It's time for ressurrection life's rising!


I did forget to make my point about atonement and leprousy. If an animals sacrifice can make ones blood clean again, healing the leper, How much more the blood of Jesus, Son of God cleanse our blood unto life!

You wanted me to look at this post, and comment on the Scriptures on leprosy. Except, I see no verses, maybe some paraphrasing, but I am not taking the time to search it out. I've spent enough time trying to show you what the Bible says.

As for the Jewish Bible you posted up above, there is nothing wrong with it, although I have not spent the time to go through each word. BUT, you miss my point!

What was the BOOK of Isaiah about! What did Isaiah say right in the first chapter? That Israel was sick, wounded and it was a metaphor for sin sick Israel Did you even read those verses? That is what good Bible interpretation is about. It is reading about what Isaiah wrote to Israel. What did they think? Isaiah was called by God to preach repentance to Israel, and they did not listen!

"
Ah, sinful nation,
a people laden with iniquity,
offspring of evildoers,
children who deal corruptly!
They have forsaken the Lord,
they have despised the Holy One of Israel,
they are utterly estranged.
Why will you still be struck down?
Why will you continue to rebel?
The whole head is sick,
and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even to the head,
there is no soundness in it,
but bruises and sores
and raw wounds;
they are not pressed out or bound up
or softened with oil." Isa. 1:4-6

Isaiah calls them:
"a sinful nation",
"a people laden with iniquity",
"offspring of evildoers:
"Children who deal corruptly"
"they have forgotten the Lord"
"they are utterly estranged."
"rebels"


Powerful words to set the tone of the whole book. Then, he goes into the metaphor of Israel being sick - sin sick:

"the whole head is sick"
"the whole heart is faint"

"no soundness [in the whole body]
"bruises and sores"
"raw wounds"
"not cared for by a healer with binding or oil."


As for your complete Jewish Bible look at the middle of verse 1:6:

"but bruises and sores, and raw wounds."

The word "bruise" is EXACTLY the same word used in Isa. 53:5 in your post. And please note the grammar. What does it say who is healed? WE - 1st person plural.

Who was Isaiah talking to through this book? He was talking to the nation of Israel, of which he was a part. Of course, we can apply it to the church, if applicable.

So, is the modern church in apostasy? Some say so! Certainly the Word Faith teachers, that Joanie has been posting are all apostate.They are seeking an atonement that includes literal healing, when Isaiah is clear, it is a metaphor, which started in the beginning of the book, and continues to the end.

Israel is bruised. That is what those verses say. And Isa. 53 is about Jesus, who would be bruised for our iniquity and our sins and transgressions. The final healing, bringing us back to the state in the Garden of Eden, is simply no where found in these verses. We can look to the NT, where Paul, John, Peter all talk about the resurrection, which is when we will be healed!

Read the whole book of Isaiah! Read and look for sin! Read and see about God's people worshiping idols in high places. Read all the metaphors that Isaiah uses to try and reach the people of Israel. He goes on in chapter 1 to talk about the metaphor about sins being washed as white as snow. About being an oak, and being ashamed, because they will wither and burn. He continues the metaphor of the trees in chapter 2, and the vineyard in chapter 6.

I dare you to read Isaiah with your eyes open. See what the entire book is about! It is about calling Israel to repentance because of their wickedness and how they have walked away from God.

Get up to chapter 53, and Isaiah has banged over and over that they are sin sick people. But, then he starts to get positive in chapter 52, and the hope that some may repent and God will redeem them.

Chapter 53, about the Suffering Messiah, is about Jesus dying for our sins! And by his "bruises" we are lifted up. (That is what the Hebrew says in verse 4, according to the words you posted in your 2nd post!) Again, the Septuagint, which Jesus quoted more than the Hebrew say, "He healed our sins!

And what are those bruises?? Are they illness, or does this tie back to chapter 1, and the metaphor of Israel being horribly wounded and bruised, AS A NATION because of their sinful and evil ways.

You can continue to persist and hold onto this Word Faith lie, or you can dig into the Bible, and read who Isaiah is talking to, and what he is saying. He is NOT saying healing is in the atonement. He is saying healing is from sin, wickedness and not following God. That is what we are healed from. And one day, our bodies will be imperishable, and there will be no more tears or pain.

And if you want to persist in pulling these verses out of the context of Isaiah, you are just like what God said in Isaiah 6, to those who would not listen!

"And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” Then I said, “Here I am! Send me.” 9 And he said,
“Go, and say to this people:
"‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
10 Make the heart of this people dull,
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”" Isaiah 6:9-10


Are you going to hear, to see? Or are you going to stay blinded like the people of Israel, who did not hear with the ears, see with their eyes, and did not understand!
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#47
Amen
In looking forward to the full moon rising in the west this yr.
i was reminded of the bread with oil and what our Lord said concerning his body.
The pure table

On the first day for matzah, the talmidim came to Yeshua and asked,
“Where do you want us to prepare your Seder?”
“Go into the city, to so-and-so,” he replied, “and tell him that the Rabbi says, ‘My time is near, my talmidim and I are celebrating Pesach at your house.’” The talmidim did as Yeshua directed and prepared the Seder.

Leviticus 24 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

24 (vii) Adonai said to Moshe,
“Order the people of Isra’el to bring you pure oil from crushed olives for the light, to keep lamps burning always. 3 Outside the curtain of the testimony in the tent of meeting, Aharon is to arrange for the light to be kept burning always from evening until morning before Adonai ; this is to be a permanent regulation through all your generations. 4 He is always to keep in order the lamps on the pure menorah before Adonai.
5 “You are to take fine flour and use it to bake twelve loaves, one gallon per loaf. 6 Arrange them in two rows, six in a row, on the pure table before Adonai. 7 Put frankincense with each row to be an offering made by fire to Adonai in place of the bread and as a reminder of it. 8 Regularly, every Shabbat, he is to arrange them before Adonai ; they are from the people of Isra’el, as a covenant forever. 9 They will belong to Aharon and his sons; and they are to eat them in a holy place; because for him they are, of the offerings for Adonai made by fire, especially holy.
This is a permanent law.”


Jesus is our pure loaf now that we eat from His life. There's so much to see from the OT isnt there Pin?

Frankincense is something unique. When you go into the Hebrew and follow the roots of the priests throwing frankincense into the fire, it raises a white smoke. And that white smoke shows a picture of driving out the serpents.

Man, I love the OT!
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#48
It what the kind of healing that lasts forever that we are concerned with atonement for sin . It is made up of that not seen ,We walk by faith, not by sight.

No such thing as a sign gift, the words sign and gift will not be found in any like context in which they compliment each other.. Signs that men seek after are for those who rebel .
I don't understand what you are saying.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#49
You wanted me to look at this post, and comment on the Scriptures on leprosy. Except, I see no verses, maybe some paraphrasing, but I am not taking the time to search it out. I've spent enough time trying to show you what the Bible says.

As for the Jewish Bible you posted up above, there is nothing wrong with it, although I have not spent the time to go through each word. BUT, you miss my point!

What was the BOOK of Isaiah about! What did Isaiah say right in the first chapter? That Israel was sick, wounded and it was a metaphor for sin sick Israel Did you even read those verses? That is what good Bible interpretation is about. It is reading about what Isaiah wrote to Israel. What did they think? Isaiah was called by God to preach repentance to Israel, and they did not listen!

"
Ah, sinful nation,
a people laden with iniquity,
offspring of evildoers,
children who deal corruptly!
They have forsaken the Lord,
they have despised the Holy One of Israel,
they are utterly estranged.
Why will you still be struck down?
Why will you continue to rebel?
The whole head is sick,
and the whole heart faint.
6 From the sole of the foot even to the head,
there is no soundness in it,
but bruises and sores
and raw wounds;
they are not pressed out or bound up
or softened with oil." Isa. 1:4-6

Isaiah calls them:
"a sinful nation",
"a people laden with iniquity",
"offspring of evildoers:
"Children who deal corruptly"
"they have forgotten the Lord"
"they are utterly estranged."
"rebels"


Powerful words to set the tone of the whole book. Then, he goes into the metaphor of Israel being sick - sin sick:

"the whole head is sick"
"the whole heart is faint"

"no soundness [in the whole body]
"bruises and sores"
"raw wounds"
"not cared for by a healer with binding or oil."


As for your complete Jewish Bible look at the middle of verse 1:6:

"but bruises and sores, and raw wounds."

The word "bruise" is EXACTLY the same word used in Isa. 53:5 in your post. And please note the grammar. What does it say who is healed? WE - 1st person plural.

Who was Isaiah talking to through this book? He was talking to the nation of Israel, of which he was a part. Of course, we can apply it to the church, if applicable.

So, is the modern church in apostasy? Some say so! Certainly the Word Faith teachers, that Joanie has been posting are all apostate.They are seeking an atonement that includes literal healing, when Isaiah is clear, it is a metaphor, which started in the beginning of the book, and continues to the end.

Israel is bruised. That is what those verses say. And Isa. 53 is about Jesus, who would be bruised for our iniquity and our sins and transgressions. The final healing, bringing us back to the state in the Garden of Eden, is simply no where found in these verses. We can look to the NT, where Paul, John, Peter all talk about the resurrection, which is when we will be healed!

Read the whole book of Isaiah! Read and look for sin! Read and see about God's people worshiping idols in high places. Read all the metaphors that Isaiah uses to try and reach the people of Israel. He goes on in chapter 1 to talk about the metaphor about sins being washed as white as snow. About being an oak, and being ashamed, because they will wither and burn. He continues the metaphor of the trees in chapter 2, and the vineyard in chapter 6.

I dare you to read Isaiah with your eyes open. See what the entire book is about! It is about calling Israel to repentance because of their wickedness and how they have walked away from God.

Get up to chapter 53, and Isaiah has banged over and over that they are sin sick people. But, then he starts to get positive in chapter 52, and the hope that some may repent and God will redeem them.

Chapter 53, about the Suffering Messiah, is about Jesus dying for our sins! And by his "bruises" we are lifted up. (That is what the Hebrew says in verse 4, according to the words you posted in your 2nd post!) Again, the Septuagint, which Jesus quoted more than the Hebrew say, "He healed our sins!

And what are those bruises?? Are they illness, or does this tie back to chapter 1, and the metaphor of Israel being horribly wounded and bruised, AS A NATION because of their sinful and evil ways.

You can continue to persist and hold onto this Word Faith lie, or you can dig into the Bible, and read who Isaiah is talking to, and what he is saying. He is NOT saying healing is in the atonement. He is saying healing is from sin, wickedness and not following God. That is what we are healed from. And one day, our bodies will be imperishable, and there will be no more tears or pain.

And if you want to persist in pulling these verses out of the context of Isaiah, you are just like what God said in Isaiah 6, to those who would not listen!

"And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” Then I said, “Here I am! Send me.” 9 And he said,
“Go, and say to this people:
"‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’
10 Make the heart of this people dull,
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”" Isaiah 6:9-10


Are you going to hear, to see? Or are you going to stay blinded like the people of Israel, who did not hear with the ears, see with their eyes, and did not understand!
You continue to read with a literal mind Angela. There is such a thing as revelation seen by looking at words. Isaiah was a prophet. He wrote by what call inspiration but I think he heard within himself what to write.

Theres a literal word, and a prophetic word. Prophetic, looking ahead. And the prophet may not understand.

God is the same, never changes. Jesus healed all who came to Him.

Like Abel.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
113
#50
I know your suffering Angela. I too have a debilitating disease. Plus it's rare and not much known about. It destroys nerves to thecspinal cord that affects many organs of my body.

Just recently, after participating in the meetings, again received a touch from the Lord.

I could not lay flat flat period on my back. Had to have two pillows under my head. And I had to tip my whole body back to drink a coke or whatever.

I didnt feel anything except a release from pain in the middle of my back. This has been at least 4 times now that something has changed. So my healing is a recovery type. Am not stopping.


This started in 1988 when injured at my work. I can truthfully say, I was half hearted in seeking healing because I had pain pills that kept me comfortable. Until my heart failed and nearly died twice. Now have a pacemaker.

Am not afraid to pass on, but I haven't finished my course.

Ask yourself....have you sought healing with everything in you? Selah

oh, forgot this...I can lay flat on the floor. My family is my witness. My doctor does not yet know.

I am thrilled to hear God is gradually healing you! It is obviously his will! And I pray he will continue to heal you of your pain! That is wonderful. Especially, when you say not much is known about the disease, or how to treat it.

In some ways, I am lucky. Rheumatoid Arthritis attacks 1% of the population. That may not seem like much, but it is enough that a huge amount of research has been done, and there are many meds and other things that are being tried out, to either suppress the disease, or one day even cure it.

I frequent a lot of RA forums. There are always people that come into the forum, testifying that a gluten free diet or a paleo diet, or the Paddison Program has healed them. They are in remission. There are even people who have spontaneous remission, no faith, it just happened.

Some of these people are on every thread, saying we would all be healed if we just drank sour cherry juice, or whatever, because they were. This is called a "testimonial." It is totally unscientific and not repeatable. Not science, not verifiable. Not based on anything except what has happened to them.

My thought is that this is called Placebo Effect. That means, they believe so strongly they are better, they feel better. Except, most of the time, they are not.

Back in the 1990s when Remicade, one of the first biologics came out for controlling RA, a double blind study was being done at the University of Alberta, in Edmonton, where I used to live. So, half the group got the drug, half did not. Neither the doctors nor health care professionals nor the patients knew who got what.

At the beginning, everyone's hands were xrayed to check for erosions, or joint damage, and again after the year was over. At the end of the year, they did a survey to see how everyone was feeling and 52% in the Placebo group said they felt significantly better. That is over HALF of the group! They got nothing, and felt better!

They were healed, right? Well, they looked at the hand X-rays and compared them to the ones from the beginning, and there was considerable continued joint damage in all those who thought they felt better. That is Placebo Effect. To think you are better, when you are not.

In fact, the double blind part of the study had to be taken to the Ethics committee, because it was simply wrong to keep giving these people no drug at all, and let them think they were getting better, when they were deteriorating. So, they gave it to everyone in the trial. And not everyone responded and got better, or some couldn't take the side effects. But, there was a majority that had improved significantly.

So, that is what I think of heal testimonials. Give me a double blind study! And quantifiable checks on what is happening.

As for you, whether it is God or time, or simply your brain helping you feel better, I think it is wonderful! I feel better, because I take so many harsh expensive drugs. But, God has led me on this path.

And he also led me to seminary, because although I didn't go the first time when he called me, to one of the best seminaries (Regent College Vancouver, where I lived), God gave me a second chance. My teaching career was over, I needed something, and I thought studying the Bible would be the best thing to do.

There, I learned to exegete the Word, and to understand why the Word Faith is one of the most deceptive and worst lies there is.

If anyone wants a good pamphlet on this topic, order "The Disease of the Health and Wealth Gospels" by Gordon D. Fee. Fee is one of the top Greek scholars in the world, and a Pentecostal who believes in healing, although not the wealth side of this heresy. I base some of what I have posted on what he wrote.

Instead of listening to Word Faith people, take a break and read a scholar, who makes it simple. He also wrote, "How to read the Bible for all it's worth." If you don't agree, in the end, at least you have done due diligence, reading both sides of the issue, written by people who are much better scholars, men of God, than I will ever be!
 
Dec 4, 2017
906
35
0
#51
Jesus is our pure loaf now that we eat from His life. There's so much to see from the OT isnt there Pin?

Frankincense is something unique. When you go into the Hebrew and follow the roots of the priests throwing frankincense into the fire, it raises a white smoke. And that white smoke shows a picture of driving out the serpents.

Man, I love the OT!
the gold alter of incense..
a house of prayer,


Dear Father who art in Heaven.......lead us to righteous paths

(0) A psalm of David:

(1) Adonai, I have called you; come to me quickly!
Listen to my plea when I call to you.

2
Let my prayer be like incense set before you,
my uplifted hands like an evening sacrifice.


3 Set a guard, Adonai, over my mouth;
keep watch at the door of my lips.
4 Don’t let my heart turn to anything evil
or allow me to act wickedly
with men who are evildoers;
keep me from eating their delicacies.


5 Let the righteous strike me, let him correct me;
it will be an act of love.
Let my head not refuse such choice oil,
for I will keep on praying about their wickedness.
6 When their rulers are thrown down from the cliff,
[the wicked] will hear that my words were fitting.
7 As when one plows and breaks the ground into clods,
our bones are strewn at the mouth of Sh’ol.


8 For my eyes, Adonai, Adonai, are on you;
in you I take refuge; don’t pour out my life.
9 Keep me from the trap they have set for me,
from the snares of evildoers.
10 Let the wicked fall into their own nets,
while I pass by in safety.

 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
2,943
113
#52
You continue to read with a literal mind Angela. There is such a thing as revelation seen by looking at words. Isaiah was a prophet. He wrote by what call inspiration but I think he heard within himself what to write.

Theres a literal word, and a prophetic word. Prophetic, looking ahead. And the prophet may not understand.

God is the same, never changes. Jesus healed all who came to Him.

Like Abel.

Hilarious! I get slammed for claiming some things are a metaphor, by some. The exact same verses as I posted to them. Then, when I prove it is a metaphor, I get called "literal minded."

Nope! Literal minded is for those who take single words and make them into doctrines. Literal minded is the Word Faith heresy, who think by saying certain words, pulled out of context, they are healed or wealthy. Literal minded is not looking at the context of the passage, the chapter and the book.

Word studies, as you did in the OP, are the lowest and worst way to understand the Bible. Now, if you can totally read Greek or Hebrew and are just looking up words, in scholarly sources to clarify their meanings within the passage, that is one story. For myself, my Hebrew is not good enough to read the OT these days. It needs brushing up. I just need to do it, after I am done with my German course. I can read Greek well, and yes, I use tools, like Lexicons and exegetical books and commentaries.

You are the one who is LITERALLY is leaving out texts and verses you do not like. You are the one who LITERALLY does not know a single thing about theology, and puts in bits and pieces of verses to prove a point which cannot be supported doctrinally in the OT or the NT.

Paul is laughing at all of you. Or maybe weeping with Jeremiah, because the people are so far from God.

"But if you will not listen,
my soul will weep in secret for your pride;
my eyes will weep bitterly and run down with tears,
because the Lord's flock has been taken captive." Jeremiah 13:17 ESV

"Thus says the Lord:
“Keep your voice from weeping,
and your eyes from tears,
for there is a reward for your work,
declares the Lord,
and they shall come back from the land of the enemy." Jeremiah 31:16 ESV


I am weeping for those, having eyes to do see, having ears do not listen, having a mind, but do not understand!

Sometimes I thought I saw a glimmer of hope with you, Stones, that you were willing to learn. That you did walk with God, and wanted to know more of what the Bible says, instead of all this Word Faith gibberish about spiritual DNA being like leprosy, (say what??) or pulling verses constantly out of context.

My walk with God is totally about Jesus. I hear his voice, I always have. I follow him, although I have made mistakes, no doubt about it. But God has forgiven me when I repented. God's voice is in my ears, and heart, but mostly, it is in my eyes.

I read the Bible, and God shows me the wonderful depth, the amazing wonders of his love, the incredible hope he has given me that he is coming again, and on that day, I will be healed, and no more mourning, nor crying nor in pain!
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#53
I am thrilled to hear God is gradually healing you! It is obviously his will! And I pray he will continue to heal you of your pain! That is wonderful. Especially, when you say not much is known about the disease, or how to treat it.

In some ways, I am lucky. Rheumatoid Arthritis attacks 1% of the population. That may not seem like much, but it is enough that a huge amount of research has been done, and there are many meds and other things that are being tried out, to either suppress the disease, or one day even cure it.

I frequent a lot of RA forums. There are always people that come into the forum, testifying that a gluten free diet or a paleo diet, or the Paddison Program has healed them. They are in remission. There are even people who have spontaneous remission, no faith, it just happened.

Some of these people are on every thread, saying we would all be healed if we just drank sour cherry juice, or whatever, because they were. This is called a "testimonial." It is totally unscientific and not repeatable. Not science, not verifiable. Not based on anything except what has happened to them.

My thought is that this is called Placebo Effect. That means, they believe so strongly they are better, they feel better. Except, most of the time, they are not.

Back in the 1990s when Remicade, one of the first biologics came out for controlling RA, a double blind study was being done at the University of Alberta, in Edmonton, where I used to live. So, half the group got the drug, half did not. Neither the doctors nor health care professionals nor the patients knew who got what.

At the beginning, everyone's hands were xrayed to check for erosions, or joint damage, and again after the year was over. At the end of the year, they did a survey to see how everyone was feeling and 52% in the Placebo group said they felt significantly better. That is over HALF of the group! They got nothing, and felt better!

They were healed, right? Well, they looked at the hand X-rays and compared them to the ones from the beginning, and there was considerable continued joint damage in all those who thought they felt better. That is Placebo Effect. To think you are better, when you are not.

In fact, the double blind part of the study had to be taken to the Ethics committee, because it was simply wrong to keep giving these people no drug at all, and let them think they were getting better, when they were deteriorating. So, they gave it to everyone in the trial. And not everyone responded and got better, or some couldn't take the side effects. But, there was a majority that had improved significantly.

So, that is what I think of heal testimonials. Give me a double blind study! And quantifiable checks on what is happening.

As for you, whether it is God or time, or simply your brain helping you feel better, I think it is wonderful! I feel better, because I take so many harsh expensive drugs. But, God has led me on this path.

And he also led me to seminary, because although I didn't go the first time when he called me, to one of the best seminaries (Regent College Vancouver, where I lived), God gave me a second chance. My teaching career was over, I needed something, and I thought studying the Bible would be the best thing to do.

There, I learned to exegete the Word, and to understand why the Word Faith is one of the most deceptive and worst lies there is.

If anyone wants a good pamphlet on this topic, order "The Disease of the Health and Wealth Gospels" by Gordon D. Fee. Fee is one of the top Greek scholars in the world, and a Pentecostal who believes in healing, although not the wealth side of this heresy. I base some of what I have posted on what he wrote.

Instead of listening to Word Faith people, take a break and read a scholar, who makes it simple. He also wrote, "How to read the Bible for all it's worth." If you don't agree, in the end, at least you have done due diligence, reading both sides of the issue, written by people who are much better scholars, men of God, than I will ever be!
Again. Am not Word of faith. I do not read any literature from Copeland, or any others, Price, there are so many.

I follow one ministry. That's it.

If you could shorten your posts it would be much better at least for me. My time is limited. And am hoping to be able to spend more time in Word studies.

You have slammed me so many times Angela in many different posts, that I hesitate when one seems like a peace offering.

I wasnt slamming you but stating what I see. At least I didn't mean it as a slam.

Many Christians are on both sides of this topic. I'm just declaring mine. You declare yours.

and never the train shall meet, except hopefully on the foundation of Jesus Christ the Righteous. There should be our unity.

but, my beliefs on healing line up with others.

For my neck to straighten is not a placebo effect. Ive had many experiences with the Lord. Why me? I have no idea, but am learning to keep my pearls in my jewel box.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#54
the gold alter of incense..
a house of prayer,


Dear Father who art in Heaven.......lead us to righteous paths

(0) A psalm of David:

(1) Adonai, I have called you; come to me quickly!
Listen to my plea when I call to you.

2
Let my prayer be like incense set before you,
my uplifted hands like an evening sacrifice.


3 Set a guard, Adonai, over my mouth;
keep watch at the door of my lips.
4 Don’t let my heart turn to anything evil
or allow me to act wickedly
with men who are evildoers;
keep me from eating their delicacies.


5 Let the righteous strike me, let him correct me;
it will be an act of love.
Let my head not refuse such choice oil,
for I will keep on praying about their wickedness.
6 When their rulers are thrown down from the cliff,
[the wicked] will hear that my words were fitting.
7 As when one plows and breaks the ground into clods,
our bones are strewn at the mouth of Sh’ol.


8 For my eyes, Adonai, Adonai, are on you;
in you I take refuge; don’t pour out my life.
9 Keep me from the trap they have set for me,
from the snares of evildoers.
10 Let the wicked fall into their own nets,
while I pass by in safety.

Thats exactly it pin. Prayers of the saints!
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
10,665
1,829
113
#55
A.W. Tozer once said:


"Another kind of religious leader must arise among us. He must be of the old prophet type, a man who has seen visions of God and has heard a voice from the Throne. When he comes (and I pray God there will be not one but many) he will stand in flat contradiction to everything our smirking smooth civilization holds dear.


He will contradict, denounce and protest in the name of God and will earn the hatred and opposition of a large segment of Christendom. Such a man is likely to be a mean, rugged, blunt spoken and a little bit angry with the world. He will love Christ and the souls of men to the point of willingness to die for the glory of the one in the salvation of the other. But he will fear nothing that breathes mortal breath. "
 
Jun 1, 2016
5,032
121
0
#56
Healing comes from the spirit of God, according to His word.

Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms. 14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up;

and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

17Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months. 18And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.

19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

the Holy spirit is the gift of God that comes through the atonement, resurrection and ascention of Christ. the things the apostles are teaching about things Like " Healing" there is no reason for us to re assess and re define How Healing comes to the church, its not necassary for us to re assess all of thier teaching and decide on different measures we need to take or different things we need to understand.

Jesus taught prayer for Healing, for forgiveness of sins, paul taught this regarding Healing and prayers of miraculous faith in the church.

1 corinthians 12 " Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.8For>> to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."


the atonement is the source of everything, it doesnt explain anything. its the source of salvation, but it has no directions or guidance. its the source of all christians are promised, but there is no promise without the Word. there is no understanding until we accept the understanding written by these men of God. the reason not many see healing is that they are busy explaining why communion is a guarantee for Healing, and then ex-plain why if we need to accept the church teachings in the bible then its not grace.


Lack of faith in the church to do things the way God said to do them. straying from His ways. Jesus taught " wherever to or more agree in my name, there I am with you and you will have whatever you ask" james is teaching " If anyone is sick among you in the church, ...." do it this way and the sick person will be made well"

after years of erosion to the true doctrine of Christ, no one believes anymore they believe God can Heal, can deliver ect.... but they dont believe what the Bible says to do and receive the promises. we are more interested in explaining the real truth, than understanding it. healing is a fruit of a church coming together in the name of Jesus for Gods glory. we should believe the things the Bible says because thats How His promises will always come to pass.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#57
can you explain the high calling EG?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, [SUP]14 [/SUP]I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

I can just go by context.

It has nothing to do with health, it has nothing to do with wealth. it has everything to do with our mission, Which is to go and produce fruit, go and make disciples. Go and represent christ. no matter what your situation is.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#59
If one comes to the Lord for any reason, of course it would be for good.

I was still working med-surg when a friend of mine came to my floor. She was just newly dianosed with bowel cancer. She had surgery but the cancer wasn't all removed so chemo and radiation was started.

She suffered terribly for several years. But, she had great faith that she would be healed. This was back in the early '80's. My faith wasn't strong, but I had some faith that God could heal. Was healed as a child from burns, and then asthma. And grew up in a home of this faith. But, up and down.

Other friends of hers was supporting her in teachings of WOF. What happened that I could plainly see, was her family was suffering financially, her husband was under a great burden of caring for everything with small children. and she gave up.

Now I know she entered glory with victory! The whole thing made a tremendous impression on many for good. But, others only saw her body and the suffering. And our town funeral director told me she was like a starved bird.

There were few ministries of,power like today. And some healings. A notable one of MS in our area.

So which made the greater impression Penn Ed?

Jesus healed all that came to Him. There's a key I believe in that sentence.

I can tell you which caused a revival.
for every example or testimony you give like this, I can show a testimony of great people of God who had great faith in God and who had people pray for them over and over, yet never experienced healing, But did not give up hope. But pressed on to their calling, and still produced great fruit until the day they died.

Their testimony is just as strong, in fact, maybe stronger than the one who was healed. Because God did not heal them, yet they never gave up hope. and still praised God until the day they died.

Yet God can work in both instances in a mighty way.
 
Dec 4, 2017
906
35
0
#60
Thats exactly it pin. Prayers of the saints!
so much mystery surrounding such a word as selah yet how many have thought of methu,selah?
a place of trees where our Lord gives peace, giving a portion to seven and to eight

Whats more is the priesthood of malchi,tsedec
So many looking for a home to place the ark, yet they forget whos breath gives Life.


2 Samuel 7 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

7 After the king had been living in his palace awhile and Adonai had given him rest from all his surrounding enemies, 2 the king said to Natan the prophet, “Here, I’m living in a cedar-wood palace; but the ark of God is kept in a tent!” 3 Natan said to the king, “Go, do everything that is in your heart, for Adonai is with you.”
But that same night the word of Adonai came to Natan:
“Go and tell my servant David that this is what Adonai says:
‘You are going to build me a house to live in?

Since the day I brought the people of Isra’el out of Egypt until today, I never lived in a house; rather, I traveled in a tent and a tabernacle. Everywhere I traveled with all the people of Isra’el, did I ever speak a word to any of the tribes of Isra’el, whom I ordered to shepherd my people Isra’el, asking, “Why haven’t you built me a cedar-wood house?”’

“Therefore say this to my servant David that this is what Adonai-Tzva’ot says:
‘I took you from the sheep-yards, from following the sheep, to make you chief over my people, over Isra’el.
I have been with you wherever you went;
I have destroyed all your enemies ahead of you; and I am making your reputation great, like the reputations of the greatest people on earth.
I will assign a place to my people Isra’el;
I will plant them there, so that they can live in their own place without being disturbed any more.
The wicked will no longer oppress them, as they did at the beginning, and as they did from the time I ordered judges to be over my people Isra’el;

instead, I will give you rest from all your enemies.

“‘Moreover, Adonai tells you that Adonai will make you a house.
When your days come to an end and you sleep with your ancestors, I will establish one of your descendants to succeed you, one of your own flesh and blood; and I will set up his rulership.
He will build a house for my name, and I will establish his royal throne forever.
I will be a father for him, and he will be a son for me. If he does something wrong, I will punish him with a rod and blows, just as everyone gets punished; nevertheless, my grace will not leave him, as I took it away from Sha’ul, whom I removed from before you. Thus your house and your kingdom will be made secure forever before you; your throne will be set up forever.’”

Natan told David all of these words and described this entire vision.
 
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