Here is another passage for the law/sabbath keepers to explain away........

[JaumeJ]

Many in the forum are adept at quoting Holy Scripture, and massively, however when they comment on it, it seems they are not understand anything at all.

Oral tradition of the laws was replaced by the written laws of Moses.

Please do not ask for a specifice quote on this because it is "oral" tradition.

Certain Scripture points to this. Abraham believed God. Abraham obeyed God, and except for his slip up with the tree of knowledge, Adam did too.

Let us not leave out Noah.

what date was a gentile saved again, or even a jewish person talking to a gentile, again would this be after pentecost,
what law, did abraham have.
16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ.17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.


believe, in who to be heirs to the promise.



29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it---22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

ware dose it say justified by law. but a gift by (god s)grace

 

[Wall]

Many in the forum are adept at quoting Holy Scripture, and massively, however when they comment on it, it seems they are not understand anything at all.

Oral tradition of the laws was replaced by the written laws of Moses.

Please do not ask for a specifice quote on this because it is "oral" tradition.

Certain Scripture points to this. Abraham believed God. Abraham obeyed God,

GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, AND UNTO THY SEED, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.

And long before the commandments were givin to Isreal {Exodus 20} as a whole, Abraham obeyed the voice of God and kept His 10 commandments

 

[phil112]

Many in the forum are adept at quoting Holy Scripture, and massively, however when they comment on it, it seems they are not understand anything at all.

Oral tradition of the laws was replaced by the written laws of Moses.

.................

Moses NEVER gave a single law to you. NOT ONE law was meant for you.

 

[Wall]

Moses NEVER gave a single law to you. NOT ONE law was meant for you.

Yeah, your kinda right

EXODUS 16 [28] AND THE LORD SAID UNTO MOSES, HOW LONG REFUSE YE TO KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS AND MY LAWS? [29] See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. [30] So the people rested on the seventh day.

The commandments and the law wasnt Moses's to give.

 

[JaumeJ]

How many times have those here who chose to obey God have shared this very truth with their detractors, even the OP, but it falls on deaf ears. I really was going to post that reply again, but I am glad you did instead. God bless you always.

Yeah, your kinda right

EXODUS 16 [28] AND THE LORD SAID UNTO MOSES, HOW LONG REFUSE YE TO KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS AND MY LAWS? [29] See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. [30] So the people rested on the seventh day.

The commandments and the law wasnt Moses's to give.

 

[john832]

We have the council of Jerusalem (Acts ch. 15) that clearly decrees we are no longer under the Law.

So, murder and lying are not mentioned at the Jerusalem conference as applying to the Gentiles. So how about it folks, can the Gentiles murder and lie?

 

[john832]

Is there anything in the new testament that commands new covenant faithful not to recognize sabbath?

No but there is this...

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

A clumsy translation, the Diaglott has this...

Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.

In fact the margin of my Oxford Bible says that it is a keeping of the Sabbath.

 

[john832]

John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
Romans 13:8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Christ fulfilled the law, and when we love one another we also fulfill it. What does fulfilled mean?

4137 NT - Greek[pleroo]
pleroo play-ro'-ofrom [plhrhV] - pleres 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (aperiod or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

If you are applying the law to your life, it hasn't done it's job, which is to bring you to love.

So, if we are not to keep the fourth one, I guess we don't need to keep any of them, or do you just separate out the fourth one because that is the one you don't want to keep?

 

[Simona25]

So, murder and lying are not mentioned at the Jerusalem conference as applying to the Gentiles. So how about it folks, can the Gentiles murder and lie?

The gentiles were not as savage and barbarian like you seem to believe. Saint Paul told them they need not to keep the old law (circumcision, dietetic law etc.), but they have to stop their pagan related practices. It was clear for everyone that if the supreme law is to love God and love your neighbor like yourself you are not going to get out and start murdering people.

 

[john832]

The gentiles were not as savage and barbarian like you seem to believe. Saint Paul told them they need not to keep the old law (circumcision, dietetic law etc.), but they have to stop their pagan related practices. It was clear for everyone that if the supreme law is to love God and love your neighbor like yourself you are not going to get out and start murdering people.

Not what I asked, I asked if the Jerusalem conference was the only Law applied to the Gentiles, which your previous post said in so many words.

 

[john832]

It was clear for everyone that if the supreme law is to love God and love your neighbor like yourself you are not going to get out and start murdering people.

All except for the fact that Paul said the opposite...

Rom 7:14 We know for, that the law spiritual is; I but fleshly am, having been sold under the sin.
Rom 7:15 What for I work out, not I know; not for what I wish, this I practice; but what I hate, this I do.
Rom 7:16 If but what not I wish, this I do, I assent to the law, that excellent.
Rom 7:17 Now but no longer I work out it, but the dwelling in me sin.
Rom 7:18 I know for, that not dwells in me, this is in the flesh of me, a good thing; the for to will is present with me, the but to work out the excellent, not I find.
Rom 7:19 Not for what I wish, I do a good thing; but what not I wish an evil thing, this I practice.
Rom 7:20 If but what not wish I, this I do, no longer I work out it, but the dwelling in me sin.
Rom 7:21 I find therefore the law in the wishing to me to do the excellent, because with me the evil thing lies near.
Rom 7:22 I am pleased for wish the law of the God according to the inside man;
Rom 7:23 I see but another law in the members of me warring against the law of the mind of me, and making a captive me to the law of the sin to that existing in the members of me.
Rom 7:24 Wretched I man; who me will rescue from the body of the death this?
Rom 7:25 I thank the God by means of Jesus Anointed of the Lord of me. So then myself I with the indeed mind am in servitude to a law of God; with the but flesh, to a law of sin.

Spoken in the present. He still fought his nature and his nature was to break the Laws, to kill, to steal, to hate and he had to overcome these impulses.

 

[Simona25]

Not what I asked, I asked if the Jerusalem conference was the only Law applied to the Gentiles, which your previous post said in so many words.

The only law that applied to Gentiles (and applies now to all christians) was the Christian law, not the Mosaic law.

 

[john832]

The only law that applied to Gentiles (and applies now to all christians) was the Christian law, not the Mosaic law.

Oh, then why will they keep the Feast of Tabernacles and the Sabbath in the future?

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

 

[Simona25]

All except for the fact that Paul said the opposite...

I don't see the verses from Acts 15 that prove Saint Paul said something differently at the Council of Jerusalem. All I see is people getting around what he decided and doing in contrary of what he said.

 

[JaumeJ]

The Gentiles were taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ teaches us to learn of Him. He teaches none of the law is abolished, but completed. Paul goes on to say our faith establishes the law. What is established is not abolished or forgotten.

You are partly right in your post. Jesus Christ made all foods clean when teaching nothing by entering the body defiles the body.

Circumcision is past, however we are to be circumcised in the hearts.

As for sacrificial laws, they are all pre-crucifixion since any sacrifice for sin would be a blasphemy of Christ's great, and now only sacrifice for sin.

Any law calling for punishment, even to death, should now be replaced by mercy being extended according to Christ's teaching and Example.

All laws on good conduct are still quite valid and intact.

Paul teaches that the Gospel he preached is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and if any should come preaching another gospel, not that there is one, let him be accursed.

Paul teaches nothing new to Christ's Gospel, so we learn of Him, lest we fall into the hands of hypocrites who weigh heave burdens on you but will not move a finger to lift themselves.

Jesus Christ, the Way, the Truth and the Life, amen.

The gentiles were not as savage and barbarian like you seem to believe. Saint Paul told them they need not to keep the old law (circumcision, dietetic law etc.), but they have to stop their pagan related practices. It was clear for everyone that if the supreme law is to love God and love your neighbor like yourself you are not going to get out and start murdering people.

 

[john832]

I don't see the verses from Acts 15 that prove Saint Paul said something differently at the Council of Jerusalem. All I see is people getting around what he decided and doing in contrary of what he said.

All I see is people using a misunderstanding of Acts 15 to do away with the Ten Commandments. The subject in Acts 15 is...

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

 

[Simona25]

Oh, then why will they keep the Feast of Tabernacles and the Sabbath in the future?

Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

The verses you gave don't prove that the early Christians kept the Sabbath.

 

[Simona25]

All I see is people using a misunderstanding of Acts 15 to do away with the Ten Commandments. The subject in Acts 15 is...

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

Read the whole chapter.

 

[Wall]

We have the council of Jerusalem (Acts ch. 15) that clearly decrees we are no longer under the Law.

ACTS 15 [17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among THE GENTILES are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


ACTS 15 as a whole was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized or not.

ACTS 15 [4] And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. [5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That IT WAS NEEDFUL TO CIRCUMCISE THEM, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

ACTS 15 [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Nothing to do with the 10 commandments. So Simona25 lets look into what pollution of idols {V 20} is all about. Its there we find that we are to be keeping Gods sabbath.


LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and KEEP MY SABBATHS: I am the Lord your God. [4] TURN YE NOT UNTO IDOLS, NOR MAKE TO YOURSELVES MOLTEN GODS: I am the Lord your God.

LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall MAKE YOU NO IDOLS NOR GRAVEN IMAGE, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, BUT POLLUTED MY SABBATHS: FOR THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS.


I don’t know what the connection might be as to why graven images and idols are a sign that you don’t keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. We could have a debate on what an idol is but that would go nowhere but in circles. Does your church have any standing images? I know the churches that do keep the sabbath don’t have any standing images or crosses. Well, least the ones I know.

How ya been John832?

 

[Simona25]

ACTS 15 [17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among THE GENTILES are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


ACTS 15 as a whole was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized or not.

ACTS 15 [4] And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. [5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That IT WAS NEEDFUL TO CIRCUMCISE THEM, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

ACTS 15 [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Nothing to do with the 10 commandments. So Simona25 lets look into what pollution of idols {V 20} is all about. Its there we find that we are to be keeping Gods sabbath.


LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and KEEP MY SABBATHS: I am the Lord your God. [4] TURN YE NOT UNTO IDOLS, NOR MAKE TO YOURSELVES MOLTEN GODS: I am the Lord your God.

LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall MAKE YOU NO IDOLS NOR GRAVEN IMAGE, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, BUT POLLUTED MY SABBATHS: FOR THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS.


I don’t know what the connection might be as to why graven images and idols are a sign that you don’t keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. We could have a debate on what an idol is but that would go nowhere but in circles. Does your church have any standing images? I know the churches that do keep the sabbath don’t have any standing images or crosses. Well, least the ones I know.

How ya been John832?

I keep God's Sabbath. Why you say I don't? Only I don't keep it on Saturday (which is the day jews kept Sabbath as a reminder of how God helped them out of the Egyptian slavery), but on Sunday (which is the day Christ defeated death and sin and gives eternal life to whoever believes in Him and follow Him).