Here is another passage for the law/sabbath keepers to explain away........

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Kerry

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Answer this one question. What did the law do for the OT people?
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Answer this one question. What did the law do for the OT people?
For starters it showed them the righteousness of God, the power of God, and the care that God had for them. He proved His care for them by bringing them out of captivity. I think Jesus Christ has done the same for us. Wadaya think?
 
K

Kerry

Guest
For starters it showed them the righteousness of God, the power of God, and the care that God had for them, and proving that care by bringing them out of captivity. I think Jesus Christ has done the same for us. Wadaya think?
Show from law, where there is redemption. I meant if you break the law there is no remedy.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Show from law, where there is redemption. I meant if you break the law there is no remedy.
So my first answer wasn't good enough? Concerning redemption, redeem (as you know) means to purchase, and to obtain possession.

"And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people." Leviticus 26:12

"When the sin, which they have sinned against it, is known , then the congregation shall offer a young bullock for the sin, and bring him before the tabernacle of the congregation." Leviticus 4:14

Then the ordinance of the temple priest's duties happen

"and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them." Leviticus 4:20b

This is a shadow of things to come in Christ Jesus. The physical temple has vanished and a new has been made
I'm off to retire for the evening, I'll check tomorrow after the wife and I take the bike for a spin. God bless.
 
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Apostol2013

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We are to live for the eternal not the moment making it about quality rather than quantity the spirit is quality and there is no sin no malice no revelry no fornication but peace and love charity true brotherly love (agape) shall we then live in the spirit as God intended ? I say yes !
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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John 15:12 "This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you."
Romans 13:8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law."

Christ fulfilled the law, and when we love one another we also fulfill it. What does fulfilled mean?

4137 NT - Greek[pleroo]
pleroo play-ro'-ofrom [plhrhV] - pleres 4134; to make replete, i.e. (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (aperiod or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.:--accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

If you are applying the law to your life, it hasn't done it's job, which is to bring you to love.
...Shakes head.....
 

KohenMatt

Senior Member
Jun 28, 2013
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...so you bring sacrifices to the temple, are circumcised and eat kosher?
Jesus is my only sacrifice, and He is brought to my temple daily.
Circumcised? Yes.
Kosher? Yes.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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I had to bring this out proving that the law God gave to Moses is not at conflict with faith our the grace of God through Christ Jesus. It is only at conflict with those who are of a carnal mind.
see, building law of moses conflicts with the new covenent.
[SUP][SUP]7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised8 (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles),
[/SUP]
jew or gentile, ministry difference. act 15 is asking what law to give to the gentiles,


jew had to follow full law. and that would need a temple(stone)



[/SUP]
[SUP]act 151 Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.
[/SUP]

[SUP]5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses."
[/SUP]
[SUP]0 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will."
[/SUP]gal 2-3
[SUP]1 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
[/SUP][SUP]23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.[/SUP]


[SUP]21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
[/SUP]

 
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cfultz3

Guest
It's nonsense to keep the law since Jesus Christ is the end/purpose of the law and He fulfilled it...
Liked by Simona25 (this is what others are saying also)

We are no longer held to the sacrificial, or the punishments that were issued by the law.
That is how we are no longer under the law, for Jesus took our punishment and became the sacrifice for us.

Still some will try to say eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth as well as the other punishments that come with the law still apply.

This is false, the moral values do still apply for they were put there to show us our sins and how to come to walking in love that our Lord Jesus Christ issued in with the new covenant with His own blood.

Knowing how to walk in love now we should no longer be under a tutor ( law ) to show us how to walk, but unfortunately some miss the true meaning and continue to want to punish others in an unloving manner. They do not spend the time out of love to minister and try to help them correct their wrong doings.

They want to skip this and go straight to punishments, and even put them to death.
 
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cfultz3

Guest
If Christ gave you a commandment to fulfill, then wouldn't you still be under the law then since if you keep one law you keep them all since if one breaks one law they break them all.

The law of Grace and Truth was given not to condemn us but rather that we might have life and life more abundantly.
Summary List Of The Commandments Of Jesus (The Commandments Of Jesus: the complete list)

I. The Universal Moral Law

A. The Law Of Love

"First, love God your Creator more than anything
else. Then, love all other people the same as you
love yourself."​

B. The Ten Commandments

1. "Do not put anything ahead of God your Creator."
2. "Do not make or worship idols."
3. "Do not take the name of God in vain."
4. "Take one day of complete rest each week, in honor of God."
5. "Honor your father and your mother."
6. "Do not commit murder."
7. "Do not commit adultery."
8. "Do not steal."
9. "Do not tell lies against anyone."
10. "Do not covet other people's possessions."​

C. The Golden Rule

"Treat Others As You Would Like To Be Traeted."​

II. The Other Commandments Of Jesus

1. "FORGIVE EVERYBODY OF ALL THEIR OFFENSES AGAINST YOU."
(Forgive, and be forgiven.)
2. "YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN."
3. "ABIDE IN ME, AND LET ME ABIDE IN YOU."
4. "LET PEOPLE SEE YOUR GOOD WORKS." (Do not hide your light
under a basket.)
5. "END DISPUTES QUICKLY."
6. "WHATEVER CAUSES YOU TO SIN, GET RID OF IT."
7. "DO NOT SWEAR OATHS AT ALL."
8. "DO NOT RETURN OFFENSE FOR OFFENSE." (Turn the other cheek.)
9. "GIVE WHAT PEOPLE ASK OF YOU, AND GIVE MORE THAN IS REQUIRED."
(Go the extra mile.)
10. "LOVE YOUR ENEMIES AND THOSE WHO WORK AGAINST YOU."
11. "GIVE TO THE POOR TO PLEASE GOD, NOT TO GAIN APPROVAL
FROM OTHER PEOPLE."
12. "PRAY PRIVATELY AND SIMPLY, NOT TO IMPRESS OTHER PEOPLE."
13. "MAKE YOUR PRAYERS BE LIKE THE LORD'S PRAYER."
14. "WHEN YOU FAST, DO IT SECRETLY, NOT FOR SHOW."
15. "STORE UP YOUR TREASURES IN HEAVEN, NOT ON EARTH."
16. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT YOUR MATERIAL NEEDS."
17. "DO NOT WORRY ABOUT THE FUTURE."
18. "MAKE GOD YOUR HIGHEST PRIORITY, AND HE WILL TAKE CARE OF
ALL YOUR NEEDS."
19. "DO NOT JUDGE OTHER PEOPLE." (Judge not, lest ye be judged.)
20. "DO NOT GIVE HOLY THINGS TO DOGS OR CAST YOUR PEARLS
BEFORE SWINE."
21. "ASK GOD FOR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HAVE." (Seek, and ye shall
find.)
22. "FEED THE HUNGRY, CLOTHE THE NAKED, SHELTER THE HOMELESS,
COMFORT THOSE IN DISTRESS."
23. "FOLLOW THE NARROW PATH TO LIFE." (Enter by the narrow gate.)
24. "BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS."
25. "EXERCISE POWER OVER UNCLEAN SPIRITS."
26. "LOVE LITTLE CHILDREN, DO NOT DESPISE THEM."
27. "DO NOT TAKE THE TITLES 'MASTER' OR 'FATHER' FOR YOURSELF."
28. "RESOLVE DISPUTES IN AN ORDERLY WAY, LIKE THIS . . . "
29. "DO NOT OPPOSE OTHER BELIEVERS IN CHRIST WHO ARE NOT IN YOUR
GROUP."
30. "HAVE TOTAL FAITH IN GOD FOR EVERYTHING."
31. "BE LIKE THE GOOD SAMARITAN." (Go, and do likewise.)
32. "LOVE OTHER PEOPLE AS I HAVE LOVED YOU"
33. "EAT BREAD AND DRINK WINE IN REMEMBRANCE OF ME."
34. "WASH ONE ANOTHER'S FEET."
35. "BE MERCIFUL."
36. "GO AND TEACH ALL NATIONS, BAPTIZING THEM."
37. "KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS."
38. "BE PREPARED FOR YOUR MASTER TO RETURN."​
 
C

cfultz3

Guest
acts 15, what law was a gentile to follow.
[SUP]1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.romans 8
if the believer has a way out, is that because hes/ she is a believer,even the jewish had a way out of sin, ie temple (animals killed etc)[/SUP]
romans 8

paul was at act 15.
And what is that Law? What does it fulfill? Has God changed His will?
 
S

sassylady

Guest
Fulfill means to be completed. The Holy Spirit enables us to do what the law commands, therefore we keep the law without trying in our flesh to do so.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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And what is that Law? What does it fulfill? Has God changed His will?
5 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.18 Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood.19 For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you."21 And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship.22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

is it. god s will, you need his son,
 
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5 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.18 Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood.19 For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people,20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you."21 And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship.22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

6 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

is it. god s will, you need his son,
Hebrews 9 is correct, and it is true we all need Christ. According to what you have so graciously quoted, all that Jesus taught were the principles of the law in the Old Testament. I will highlight your quote so all can see. The principles of God, since the beginning including the exhortations of God to Israel via Moses, were also the principles of what Jesus taught before His death, and the Holy Spirit was sent to remind the disciples of all that Jesus taught. The law is truly Spiritual, and God is a Spirit, and we worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance , whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26

Heaven and earth shall pass away , but my words shall not pass away . Matthew 24:35
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
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Everything that jesus taught was to be enforced in nt jesus taught us the operation of the spirit as well asthe power of prayer and fasting he taught us the power of the holy ghost interceeding power He did all this before He had died and resurected
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Hebrews 9 is correct, and it is true we all need Christ. According to what you have so graciously quoted, all that Jesus taught were the principles of the law in the Old Testament. I will highlight your quote so all can see. The principles of God, since the beginning including the exhortations of God to Israel via Moses, were also the principles of what Jesus taught before His death, and the Holy Spirit was sent to remind the disciples of all that Jesus taught. The law is truly Spiritual, and God is a Spirit, and we worship Him in Spirit and in truth.

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance , whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26

Heaven and earth shall pass away , but my words shall not pass away . Matthew 24:35
history never changed, the covenent did.

5 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance,

17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.18

15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified.16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ.17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

9 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,30 since God is one---who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.


5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses." even none christain jews believed this. act 15
what slit them, was believing in jesus. is this ,why the christains were getting chased with the pharisee etc(paul at the stoning stephen)

but the christain believers, dont need a temple made of stone, to get forgivness of sins.
ie no temple 70 ad.


 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
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That is correct with every covenant that God gives He also carries the promises
 
Mar 4, 2013
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That is correct with every covenant that God gives He also carries the promises
You are correct.
From what I can understand about the New Covenant in Christ Jesus, the only thing that has vanished is the tabernacle made with human hands and its ordinances. That was all fulfilled in Christ Jesus. Jesus bore all those ordinances on the cross along with our sins. As we know the foreshadow always included the shedding of blood and forgiveness was given with a repentant heart as it is in the New Covenant. In reference to the law outside of these ordinances, (an example such as Jubilee and the forgiving our debts, which is a Sabbath observance) we are still responsible for our actions and our understanding. We should strive to see all things though the Spirit of God.

"Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." John 7:24

"But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth ; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." (1 Samuel 6:17)
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
In reference to the law outside of these ordinances, (an example such as Jubilee and the forgiving our debts, which is a Sabbath observance) we are still responsible for our actions and our understanding. We should strive to see all things though the Spirit of God.
Well said. Regarding the above, what I also believe should temper such discussions is that the law of ordinances was given to Israel by the Lord, was never, ever laid on a Gentile nation. Judaism was never a global religion, while Christianity is to the Jew and the Gentile. To believe ordinances in the Old Testament the Lord only ever gave to Israel, of a failed legal system that only served to condemn those very people, is like putting a corpse on the back of Christianity. Also, we walk in the Spirit, the law of God written on our hearts, the summation of which is love,

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Sometimes things get complicated, which aren't, inherently, complicated. This is how certain threads get 200 pages long, much like the economists of the world, if you lined them up in a straight line, they would never come to a conclusion.
 
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what law, i am not jewish, again acts 15 tells you this, and gal 3 and with no temple at 70 ad , how can you follow full law.
PLEASE!! When you post for all to follow you, read and think thoroughly first. Scripture was breathed by God to Jews. The Old Test. is 78% of scripture and it was all made even in a special language they had. When God saw that most people didn't know him, God created a Jewish race to teach in a special way and set that race apart, even told them not to get together with others for suppers and parties together, but when Christ was crucified God split the curtain to the holy arc, remember? Jesus said everything remained the same with him, but at the same time Christ told us that He told how it was made better. At the time of that split, we were all to reach the arc and Christ was the high priest for our salvation to take the place of the Levi priest. The temple was changed at that time even if it was in 70 that the brick and mortar symbol of the temple was destroyed. Now, it isn't whether you are Jewish or not. That is what the letters written to the first churches are all about, tearing down the boundaries between Jews and gentiles.

You can keep to the diet God gave the Jews to symbolize cleanliness or not keep it, but all people are to keep the spiritual teaching. You can circumcise your baby boys or not circumcise them with a knife, but the heart is to be circumcised. We are not to be Jew and gentile any more, we are to be one in Christ. THAT is what Acts and Galatians is telling you.

You are very mixed up (honestly!!) about the place of the law that God wants us to have. Also, about what is law in spirit and truth. Are the feasts law in spirit and truth? Are the dietary law in spirit and truth? How did Christ overcome law? In order to find out about these things we must be humble before the Lord. Today we have a way to get help with a search of every scripture in all of scripture about law, use it and read about law starting with creation and how God developed it for us. It is all one God breathing the very same principle of His eternal self, the principle God has for us never changes. Find a search engine like there is in e-Sword software to search the entire bible for these scriptures. Your life depends on knowing all of God.