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P
here's the thing, Mike...
if a person has no respect for the Word of God, you can talk all day and get nowhere.
i've been told, 'well, i know that means something to you, but...'
and sadly, many 'Christian' churches tell folks that God's just fine with homosexuality.
the newest generation of adults has been properly indoctrinated into the PC culture of the day.
government schools helped. a lot.
i've come to the conclusion that if the Spirit doesn't reveal something, it stays hidden.
oh,wait! i think that's in the Bible.
-ellie
if a person has no respect for the Word of God, you can talk all day and get nowhere.
i've been told, 'well, i know that means something to you, but...'
and sadly, many 'Christian' churches tell folks that God's just fine with homosexuality.
the newest generation of adults has been properly indoctrinated into the PC culture of the day.
government schools helped. a lot.
i've come to the conclusion that if the Spirit doesn't reveal something, it stays hidden.
oh,wait! i think that's in the Bible.
-ellie
U
There's really nothing you can do. The homosexual agenda has pushed this mentality that any supporters of gay rights has to believe if you don't agree there is no option except that you're a hateful homophobe. They are some of the most intolerant people if you don't support them, despite their claims to 'accept everyone'. Its quite a hypocrisy, but one that's not going to change.
The gravity of the issue of homosexuality in our nation is not merely represented in the number of those who actively engage in the parctice but of the ever increasing number of the populace who now openly embrace and support the practice even if they themselves are not homosexual. The moral integrity of the nation has collapsed. What we are seeing is a complete abandonment of revealed ethics. These are those "who give hearty approval to those who practice them," Rom. 1:32. Homosexuality is not just an issue in this country, it is a global pandemic. I think we can rest assured that the Almighty will not allow this to go unchallenged. When one speaks out against this or any other sin, one can expect to be persecuted for it. This is simply part of the job discription. But, "He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." Rev 3:21
Don't be surprised that you were insulted for preaching the truth. The Pharisees accused Jesus of casting out devils by Beelzebub and He was mocked on the cross, so we also that are His will suffer persecutions. You have done your part in showing her the word of God concerning this issue in a non-confrontational manner, now prayerfully leave it in God's hand and trust that He will soften her heart and bring about a change. We should not forget that it's God that does the convicting of sin and saving, not us.
Take comfort in this verse: Matt 5:11-12 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Take comfort in this verse: Matt 5:11-12 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Something you may need to ask yourself is do you Really believe in the Word of God?
Or do you believe in what the world tells you and its philosophy?
There is this thing called sin that we have a big problem with. It is such a big problem that God had to send His Own perfect Son down to be sacrificed for it. If you teach people that certain things are not sins that God has most certainly said in His Word that they are sins you are cheating them out of the salvation and the victory that they could have over those sins.
Or do you believe in what the world tells you and its philosophy?
There is this thing called sin that we have a big problem with. It is such a big problem that God had to send His Own perfect Son down to be sacrificed for it. If you teach people that certain things are not sins that God has most certainly said in His Word that they are sins you are cheating them out of the salvation and the victory that they could have over those sins.
N
To answer your question... no, at the moment I don't believe in God, although I'm interested in christian religion. But what does that have to do with my remark? I can respect a christian who will base his opinion on the bible, for that is his conviction. It's hard for me to respect people who have a bias towards gays to begin with, and THEN use a biblical verse to justify that bias. Didn't the pharisees use the old testament in a similar way?
The pharisees used their own traditions and philosophies to nullify the Word of God.
It is the people who try to justify their sin as no sin that are acting like pharisees. You know, being wise in your own eyes...
You don't realize that this homosexuality movement is against God, directly. There are all kinds of philosophies that attempt to show everyone that it is "normal" and not a sin. The people who speak up and say homosexuality is indeed against God are being told they are hypocrites and bigots.
The fact is homosexuality is a sin. The reason why people are so up in arms about this is because no one likes being told that what they are doing is wrong, and against God.
It is the people who try to justify their sin as no sin that are acting like pharisees. You know, being wise in your own eyes...
You don't realize that this homosexuality movement is against God, directly. There are all kinds of philosophies that attempt to show everyone that it is "normal" and not a sin. The people who speak up and say homosexuality is indeed against God are being told they are hypocrites and bigots.
The fact is homosexuality is a sin. The reason why people are so up in arms about this is because no one likes being told that what they are doing is wrong, and against God.
N
If you start off with a preconceived idea about gays (for instance), and ONLY use the bible to justify your opinion, isn't that sin too? Shouldn't a christian begin with listening to Jesus' words first, and base his opinion on that, and not have an opinion first and only use Jesus' words to prove his point later?
That homosexuality is a sin isn't a fact, but an opinion, based upon how certain christians read the bible. For me as a non believer the whole concept of 'sin 'doesn't exist, although I can understand that it's real for you. I'm not saying that all christians who say homosexuality is a sin are bigots. If they came to that conclusion from reading the bible, then that's their conviction, and in a free country I have to respect that. Anyone a bigot however if he's only using the bible to justify his a preconceived idea about gays. In short: for a christian God's word should come first, not his own opinion, dont you agree?
That homosexuality is a sin isn't a fact, but an opinion, based upon how certain christians read the bible. For me as a non believer the whole concept of 'sin 'doesn't exist, although I can understand that it's real for you. I'm not saying that all christians who say homosexuality is a sin are bigots. If they came to that conclusion from reading the bible, then that's their conviction, and in a free country I have to respect that. Anyone a bigot however if he's only using the bible to justify his a preconceived idea about gays. In short: for a christian God's word should come first, not his own opinion, dont you agree?
T
We must remember brothers and sisters, Moses was on mount Horeb for forty days and forty nights. He received many more laws than the Ten Commandments. For example, there were more laws made between Moses and the Lord that were not classified as one of the ten. Take a look at Deuteronomy 29:1:
These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. (Deuteronomy 29:1)
Notice what the scripture says, “beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.” We see that other Laws were given to Moses alongside the covenant (Ten Commandments). An individual might say, “Those laws were for the tribes of Israel.” Well, let’s see if the Lords laws only apply to the sons and daughters of Jacob.
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 24:22)
One manner of law for Israel, as well as for the rest of the sons of Adam. Let’s back up to Leviticus the 18th chapter and start at the 22nd verse.
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: (Leviticus 18:22-24)
Note what the scripture says, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” Note something else in this set of scriptures. “Defile not yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you.” This statement should have a person shaking in their boots.
These are the words of the covenant, which the LORD commanded Moses to make with the children of Israel in the land of Moab, beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb. (Deuteronomy 29:1)
Notice what the scripture says, “beside the covenant which he made with them in Horeb.” We see that other Laws were given to Moses alongside the covenant (Ten Commandments). An individual might say, “Those laws were for the tribes of Israel.” Well, let’s see if the Lords laws only apply to the sons and daughters of Jacob.
Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God. (Leviticus 24:22)
One manner of law for Israel, as well as for the rest of the sons of Adam. Let’s back up to Leviticus the 18th chapter and start at the 22nd verse.
Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: (Leviticus 18:22-24)
Note what the scripture says, “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” Note something else in this set of scriptures. “Defile not yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you.” This statement should have a person shaking in their boots.
Tan - the problem with that is that God also says that if your child disrepects a parent, the parent or even other can stone him to death.
You want to cherry-pick OT verses you think are still valid and those which are not.
I think the main thing to do is to view the WHOLE Bible and state that homosexuality is not God's will.
But God has made some people feel that way (genetically).
God will judge people at the time of Christ's return based upon the things they choose to do.
Before that WE love everyone - as ALL are God's children.
If you don't, and judge others, then you put yourself before God - I expect that will not go well for you in the end...
We'll see,,,
You want to cherry-pick OT verses you think are still valid and those which are not.
I think the main thing to do is to view the WHOLE Bible and state that homosexuality is not God's will.
But God has made some people feel that way (genetically).
God will judge people at the time of Christ's return based upon the things they choose to do.
Before that WE love everyone - as ALL are God's children.
If you don't, and judge others, then you put yourself before God - I expect that will not go well for you in the end...
We'll see,,,
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
The word of God rings true, many sins will disqualify one from the kingdom, you told this person the truth, which isnt popular, and you loved them enough to tell them its sin against God!
But here is the good news:
Its Not Too Late!
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not purposing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
As long as mankind has breath repentance can be found, yes I mean found, it usually doesn’t come until the sinning soul breaks down, yielding to the holy word of God, through the conviction of the Holy Spirit, who is convicting the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment!
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Now many will say repentance comes after the conversion, or somewhere down the road since stopping any sin is impossible, since mankind is depraved and unable.
But God is not mocked, God is still waiting patiently for His wayward creation to repent, forsake their sins, which mean they stop first, and then seek His mercy, broken as a wild horse, now useful to His master. He gave them free will and ability to choose to repent or not.
Rom 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, and the forbearance and long-suffering, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
If your life is a mess, and you are living the lie, that tells your conscience you can sin and live of the world and still be saved, and in bondage to your flesh, giving into temptation whenever it comes knocking at your door, just remember it’s not God condoning your bad conduct, but your conscience becoming seared to the point that real repentance and faith will not be found, it will be too late, His great mercy and kindness will not last for long!
So it’s not too late for those who still have breath, and are ready to stop playing Russian roulette with the patients and mercy of God, this is not a game, this is life or death, for all eternity, repent before it’s too late and God says time is up.
Tommy 12-27-12
The Biblical Characteristics of True Repentance: (as taught by early church and Apostles) 2Cor7:10-11 “For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. For observe this very thing that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.”
For True Repentance to have Taken Place the following MUST have Occurred:
1) Season of Deep felt Godly Sorrow for sin. (Invoked by Spirit of Truth working, Jh16:8)
2) A Crisis of Conviction that Cuts to the heart! (Sin already being forsaken!)
3) A Zeal to CLEAR oneself of all Wrong Doing against God. (make restitution if necessary)
4) Indignation and Fear that leads to Vehement Desire to STOP Sinning!
5) Vindication and Finally PURITY of heart!
Every incident of Repentance in Scripture Follows this PROCESS. (DON’T Let anyone tell you it Doesn’t, and they will MOST certainly Try!) The Sin STOPS HERE, The Old Man DIES here, The Flesh is Crucified HERE! NOT Afterwards. The Desires and Conduct are CHANGED here. (Or never will be!)
OBEDIENCE to God follows in NEWNESS of Life and All things New! (Rom6:4-6, 2Cor5:17) If you have NOT Experienced this and have NO IDEA what it means, you are NOT BORN of the SPIRIT!!!
You may indeed have ‘RECEIVED’ Christ, and ‘Believed’ on His Name (repeated some words) BUT the Devils ALSO Believe! (James2:19) If a Person is SAVED by What he DOES and NOT by Faith Alone! (as James affirms, JS 2:24) The What he DOES PART, STARTS with This REPENTANCE!
I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds! Acts26:20
Courtesy standingthegap.org
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
The word of God rings true, many sins will disqualify one from the kingdom, you told this person the truth, which isnt popular, and you loved them enough to tell them its sin against God!
But here is the good news:
Its Not Too Late!
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slow concerning His promise, as some count slowness, but is long-suffering toward us, not purposing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
As long as mankind has breath repentance can be found, yes I mean found, it usually doesn’t come until the sinning soul breaks down, yielding to the holy word of God, through the conviction of the Holy Spirit, who is convicting the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment!
Joh 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Joh 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
Joh 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Now many will say repentance comes after the conversion, or somewhere down the road since stopping any sin is impossible, since mankind is depraved and unable.
But God is not mocked, God is still waiting patiently for His wayward creation to repent, forsake their sins, which mean they stop first, and then seek His mercy, broken as a wild horse, now useful to His master. He gave them free will and ability to choose to repent or not.
Rom 2:4 Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, and the forbearance and long-suffering, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
If your life is a mess, and you are living the lie, that tells your conscience you can sin and live of the world and still be saved, and in bondage to your flesh, giving into temptation whenever it comes knocking at your door, just remember it’s not God condoning your bad conduct, but your conscience becoming seared to the point that real repentance and faith will not be found, it will be too late, His great mercy and kindness will not last for long!
So it’s not too late for those who still have breath, and are ready to stop playing Russian roulette with the patients and mercy of God, this is not a game, this is life or death, for all eternity, repent before it’s too late and God says time is up.
Tommy 12-27-12
The Biblical Characteristics of True Repentance: (as taught by early church and Apostles) 2Cor7:10-11 “For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. For observe this very thing that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.”
For True Repentance to have Taken Place the following MUST have Occurred:
1) Season of Deep felt Godly Sorrow for sin. (Invoked by Spirit of Truth working, Jh16:8)
2) A Crisis of Conviction that Cuts to the heart! (Sin already being forsaken!)
3) A Zeal to CLEAR oneself of all Wrong Doing against God. (make restitution if necessary)
4) Indignation and Fear that leads to Vehement Desire to STOP Sinning!
5) Vindication and Finally PURITY of heart!
Every incident of Repentance in Scripture Follows this PROCESS. (DON’T Let anyone tell you it Doesn’t, and they will MOST certainly Try!) The Sin STOPS HERE, The Old Man DIES here, The Flesh is Crucified HERE! NOT Afterwards. The Desires and Conduct are CHANGED here. (Or never will be!)
OBEDIENCE to God follows in NEWNESS of Life and All things New! (Rom6:4-6, 2Cor5:17) If you have NOT Experienced this and have NO IDEA what it means, you are NOT BORN of the SPIRIT!!!
You may indeed have ‘RECEIVED’ Christ, and ‘Believed’ on His Name (repeated some words) BUT the Devils ALSO Believe! (James2:19) If a Person is SAVED by What he DOES and NOT by Faith Alone! (as James affirms, JS 2:24) The What he DOES PART, STARTS with This REPENTANCE!
I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds! Acts26:20
Courtesy standingthegap.org
Mike, You need not apologize for god. You just let them know this is not coming out of your own mind but is the word of God. Then let them know God is long suffering not wanting any to parish but God will judge every sinner that does not turn. Do not let them draw you in to an argument. Satan deceived Eve because he was good at making things look right that are not. Eve should have given the facts and moved on.
God has made you a watchmen like in Ezekiel 18 and 33. You must do what you have been called to do count it as joy when the say mean things about you. You are doing as your LORD has instructed let you peace rest in him.
Bookreader, The old testament is still the law we are under grace now put that no way destroys the Law. In the New Testament when the women was caught in adultery Yeshua did not say she had not sinned. His grace and mercy fell the New covenant so she was not stoned but told go and sin no more. If God calls something a sin in the bible it is true throughout. His word said he does not change and that is how his people know what to do because if he said it that is it case closed. If they do not repent they will be judged that truth is all through His word.
People should be happy that they are not put to death for sins right now but take his love, grace and mercy to change their lives.
God has made you a watchmen like in Ezekiel 18 and 33. You must do what you have been called to do count it as joy when the say mean things about you. You are doing as your LORD has instructed let you peace rest in him.
Bookreader, The old testament is still the law we are under grace now put that no way destroys the Law. In the New Testament when the women was caught in adultery Yeshua did not say she had not sinned. His grace and mercy fell the New covenant so she was not stoned but told go and sin no more. If God calls something a sin in the bible it is true throughout. His word said he does not change and that is how his people know what to do because if he said it that is it case closed. If they do not repent they will be judged that truth is all through His word.
People should be happy that they are not put to death for sins right now but take his love, grace and mercy to change their lives.
Communicating these things to people and having them hear you out is an art. It takes time, patience, a lot of empathy, and a lot of laying groundwork.
Explaining that may not have been the most important thing for her to know at that juncture. Starting with what you mean when you say sin, why sin is harmful, how sin is classified is just an example of how to lay a foundation. Knowing how she sees the world and what her presuppositions and working on them is also a good way to lay groundwork.
It's not generally useful to inform someone something is a sin if they don't understand what sin is and why it should be avoided.
Explaining that may not have been the most important thing for her to know at that juncture. Starting with what you mean when you say sin, why sin is harmful, how sin is classified is just an example of how to lay a foundation. Knowing how she sees the world and what her presuppositions and working on them is also a good way to lay groundwork.
It's not generally useful to inform someone something is a sin if they don't understand what sin is and why it should be avoided.
There are people who do not believe that God created them, the world, and how it operates. We do. We want to live in harmony with His ways. They want to live as they personally choose, we know it is better to learn God's ways and live that way as His children. There is not much we can do to change how these people think, it is in God's hands.
We can do the best we can, and watch what is leading them to behaving in ways opposed to God's ways. One of the forces that is working in our world is the idea of tolerance. God wants us to not judge people, but we ARE to judge actions. We are taught by government and the media that we are to be tolerant of any action that does not directly harm another. That is not God's way. We are to judge sexual actions that are not Godly, we are to judge other gods. That is completely separate from judging a person.
We can do the best we can, and watch what is leading them to behaving in ways opposed to God's ways. One of the forces that is working in our world is the idea of tolerance. God wants us to not judge people, but we ARE to judge actions. We are taught by government and the media that we are to be tolerant of any action that does not directly harm another. That is not God's way. We are to judge sexual actions that are not Godly, we are to judge other gods. That is completely separate from judging a person.
N
If you judge someone's lifestyle don't be suprised he will judge your lifestyle too; it works both ways. Now I guess being a christian, with everything that goes with it, is a very important part of your personality. So if one of the truths you hold dear is being criticized you might get hurt or offended as a person too.
Same goes for gays: if you're gay you can't just decide to STOP being gay, because being gay is too much a part of your personality. So even if you decide to ONLY judge the ACTIONS of someone who's gay, maybe with the best of intentions, that someone might still get hurt or offended as a PERSON. He never chose to be gay, since he was born that way. Being christian, on the other hand, is still a choice. Doesn't that all depend on one's free will to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour?
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T
Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Lets go into Revelation 20: 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Lets also go into Rev. 21: He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.