homosexuality

[Matthew4Jesus]

It's just so beyond me... how is it even debatable as to whether or not homosexuality is a sin? It's there in black and white all over the bible! Why does this topic keep cropping up, when it's so obvious it's a sin? Stop twisting the word of God, and trying to to justify something which is blatantly against Gods wishes.

 

[Bookreader]

Actually I have a problem with my own beliefs here

Sure the OT states pretty clearly that homosexuals will not be on God's OK list.
But the Law is for Jews.
And Paul says we are not bound by the Law but by the commandments of Christ and the the Love of God.
But Jesus makes it clear that he came to fulfill the Law, not to alter it. He comes with love but also with "the sword"

However Jesus does say, when 'tested' by the pharasees (I'll paraphrase) "in the Kingdom of God there is no marriage and men and women are thereby equal"

So the difference between men and women is NOTHING in the Kingdom of God - there is no partnership like marriage there.

I personally believe the Bible says homosexuality should be resisted by the individual but science shows us God made some people gay - the Bible also says "God does not tempt us" - so if he makes people gay what is going on?

I'm torn.
I think nowadays there are many who are gay because it's easier to find a willing short-term partner.
That has come because of the gradual encroachment (in parts needed) of anti-gay laws being removed.

Nowadays though it seems the insult is against those that don't like homosexuality - the next step will be condoning or making it seem as normal (in the UK it's close).

Then we are the new Greece.
Man -made Philosophy and ethics that are all about the self.

That is the aim of the humanist societies where you are - Greece without the slavery.


I know the Bible btw - and the next person that says "I relish the chance to teach you" will get a strong Biblical retort
I always relish opinion though - always - I learn by appraising what people say - like the Bereans. Not by being told by some self-righteous guy who is possibly (as indicated by his belief in himself) wrong.

My opinions are based upon my understanding and could well be wrong.
Any person who says "the holy spirit told me" I will flag (but discuss that later )

 

[hattiebod]

I think it is very difficult when one is in the secular world, to remain compassionate and loving yet to also stand up for what we believe. I do not have any easy answers, in fact I am probably going to depress folks! I was at a Christian conferance a couple of weeks ago, surrounded (apparently) by Christians....i was at the lunch table and never saw it coming....'was I against gay marriage?' I could tell I was being baited, so simply said I thought a homosexual life style was not the best that God wanted for us, but that I understood other Christians may not aggree with me.....I was told vehemently that was I a bigot? a homophobe? was I wanting to deny people their freedom of choice? Did God not love ALL and then I was bombarded with scripture. I said no, it was not what 'I thought' it was what I read & believed in the Word of God, but, we would have to agree, as Christians, to disaggree. My accuser then said 'what? you will not debate with me...? you do not really feel safe? you are so unsure, you are backing down?'' It was not good. All i got from my accuser was how it ''felt'' wrong to judge, etc, but it is not about us. It is about God.God was loving and in everything....so ''in'' gay people. Anything God was in could only be good. Oh dear. I do interact with homosexuals, of course I do, I interact with all sinners. I am a sinner. I also tried to say that I understood that God as the creator but that not that he actually dwelt in creation....He only (through the Holy Spirit) entered us when we accepted His Son) When i tried to explain this to this elderly Christian lady she told me...'' I think someone who is gay would really take offence to you saying they were a sinner.'' Well...she was right, no one likes to be called a sinner. Are we going to strive to draw close to a Holy God or are we going to make excuses....our sin is ok to us, so therefore it must, must be Ok to God. Mad. ARGH.....!!

 

[shrimp]

Science vs. the "Gay Gene"

Science does not prove that "God made some people gay"

 

[hattiebod]

I totally understand how you are struggling with thinking along the lines you are. I suppose the bottom line is, this is not about what man wants but about what God wants. Yes, there is homosexuality in this world, but there is also horrendous gluttony, disease, addiction and perversion. We can excuse it all, avoid repsonsibility as we want...but the bottom line is...What does God want for us? and that will only matter if you truly know Him. If you look at the Word, in all of its context, OT & NT, then we can see that God wants a man & a woman to be together. He does see we will, in our perversions & sinfullness, seek other combinations yes, but it is not what He wants for us. It is what we want. If we follow the route that it is what we want and we then try to convince the world it is ok, well, we will not fulfill what He has for us because it is not His will. It is not what he wants for us to be happy, to prosper...and most of all? to be the hands & feet to bring others into the Kingdom. And that is, at the VERY least, sad. Because His son died on a cross for us....and we are doing what??

 

[starfield]

It's just so beyond me... how is it even debatable as to whether or not homosexuality is a sin? It's there in black and white all over the bible! Why does this topic keep cropping up, when it's so obvious it's a sin? Stop twisting the word of God, and trying to to justify something which is blatantly against Gods wishes.

Unfortunately it's not obvious for some people as they are still blind (spiritually), but God can restore their sight and bring them to a knowledge of the truth.

 

[Eagleridge]

All these different opinions - I find it interesting how, even as (quote) "Christians" we can all look at the same thing and disagree - because we are all different, come from different backgrounds, parents, teachers, environments etc. - so clear why God gave us His Word - and even with those guidelines...we interpret.....THAT'S WHERE THE REAL DIFFERENCE LIES" - those that want to justify what they WANT to believe and those that take God AT HIS WORD...boils down to..WHAT IS RIGHT IN MAN'S EYES and...WHAT IS RIGHT IN GOD'S EYES doesn't it?... of course...ask yourself......which categorie do I fall into?..plain and simple.....we can argue until the cows come home and never agree.....we're all in a different place in our walk with the Lord....I didn't see SO clearly 10 years ago and I was walking with the Lord THEN......after 30 years......had lots of revelations.......glad to share those....what we do do is bring shame on Christianity....bantering about these very serious heaven and hell issues......and trust me, they are....lots of Bible for that ...so take your stand and debate, argue and disagree and miss the real issue...respect for each other...remember...you're on display in this forum ...state your case and move on....my burden, joining this chat forum is to touch someone ....if only ONE person...let me add one more thing to this....uh....argument....In the Beginning...God created man and woman ... Adam and Eve...not ....Adam and Steve..and he formed and shaped their bodies to FIT together in order to PRO-CREATE ...but somewhere along the Genealogie chain........oops, God made a mistake and allowed a fetus to have this pre-conceived mutation....to be born a male into a female body or vice-versa ....really?.....PRE-CONCEIVED and PRE-CONDEMNED? .... really?....to suggest that God APPROVES or CONDONES homosexuality and that someone is born GAY is blasphemy ..... that's how I read my Bible .....also consider how he judged Sodom (Sodomy) and Gomorrah......I choose to take Romans 1 ..literally.....Paul was telling like it is..........and even though he didn't leave ANY room for interpretation....people still insist....'nuff said ...Lord bless y'all ....

 

[Eagleridge]

RIGHT ON MATTHEW - THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A SIN, HAVE TO WORK REAL HARD (AND THEY DO) TO JUSTIFY THEIR BELIEF THAT IT'S NOT. GOOD THING WE LIVE IN THE GRACE DISPENSATION BUT THE DAY OF THE LORD IS COMING - HOLD YOUR STAND YOUNG MAN - AND ENDURE THE PERSECUTION OF THOSE THAT OPPOSE GOD'S WORD - THERE ARE MORE OF THEM THAN THERE ARE THOSE OF US. LORD BLESS - PAUL

 

[Trifecta]

I think that it is first a good thing to know that , ' Homsexuality ' , is a spirit that attaches itself to those who have had parental intimacy issues . And I'm not just talking about incest . I am speaking of the misunderstanding or misdirection of a parental figure towards a childs creative sensitivities , outright neglect , or simply just not being there at a time when the child was most vulnerable . Just as I believe that most pornography addictions stem from a desire to see two people being intimate with each other , with the viewer being in a controlling position , versus harkening back to a time when parental intimacy was lost , and beyond the childs control . I say these things because I believe it is wisdom that leads us to love the homosexual , based on Gods Grace and Love and Mercy , knowing that they are controlled by something which they may hate , but feel powerless to break it's stronghold over their lives . We in all things have to know , that even though God hates the spirit of homosexuality , he loves the person who has been caught in it's grip , even though they may not even realize that they are in bondage . Simply pray for them , love them , don't preach to them in such a way that will close them off from the Gospel . The Bible says that it is the ' Goodness ' of God that leads us to repentance . Lets seperate the tormenting spirit , from the person . When we can begin to do that , I believe then that we can begin to fullfill the calling of Isaiah . To ' Bind up the brokenhearted , and to set at liberty the captives ' .

 

[clarkthompson]

Jesus said don't judge lest you be judged be He also said let you judgement be a judgement of rightouness. Show we are to show people their error by the scripture not to tear them down but to lead them to the cross. If you did this all you can do is leave the door open for follow up and pray.

 

[Grandpa]

The quotes are by Grandpa'.

'When God is present lots of people become uncomfortable with their lifestyle'

So by mentioning bible verses you can summon God at will? Funny, I thought christians believed God to be autonomous. Isn't God supposed to be omnipresent?.

Gods Word is His Word. Whether He says it or someone repeats it it doesn't change its meaning. The statement stands regardless of your philosophies or what you suppose christians believe.

'That is the same with the gay lifestyle'

Objectively speaking, so apart from any life philosophy, being gay doesn't have to be harmful to anyone: NOT to the person involved OR anyone else around him. Being gay isn't a 'lifestyle' by the way, because a lifestyle is something you adopt by choice, like being a christian, for instance. Gay people, on the other hand, can't help being gay.
Drinking too much, on the other hand, IS very bad for you. The harmful and destructive consequences of alcoholism, to body and mind, can be medically and scientifically determined as an scientifically proven, objective truth.

Any choices that a person makes that are against God and His Law are harmful and destructive to us. There is a lot of studying for you to do to discover this fact.

'A lot of people hate God and His Word. I guess they don't like being told that what they are doing is wrong.'

There are plenty of people, christians too, that don't share your interpretation of the bible on homosexuality. That doesn't necessarily have to mean they hate 'God' or the bible; I for once respect all religions. Who's to say what is the right interpretation anyway? Can you really speak on God's behalf?
So if I, if anybody else for that matter, doesn't agree with you, that doesn't have to mean I'm wrong by default.

There are some things that need "interpretation" in the bible. This isn't one of those things. The bible plainly says that the gay lifestyle is an abomination. You can do some mental gymnastics and try to make abomination mean something other than abomination, or even gay mean something other than gay, but at the end of the day the truth is we can't interpret our way out of sin.

 

[Elizabeth619]

After reading some of the responses it is clear to me that some know homosexuality is a sin, but do you know WHY it is a sin? Why is this act an abomination? What makes it so wrong?
There is a clear and direct answer to this, and it is not "Because God said so".

Study as to why homosexuality is a sin then it may be easier to teach a person(especially a nonbeliever) as to why it is sinful.

 

[oldhermit]

Jesus said don't judge lest you be judged be He also said let you judgement be a judgement of rightouness. Show we are to show people their error by the scripture not to tear them down but to lead them to the cross. If you did this all you can do is leave the door open for follow up and pray.

You should not quote passages and make applications to scriptures you do not understand. This is NOT a prohabition against judging and has to be the most missapplied text in all of scripture.

 

[Newcause]

A lot of reactions, so let me just say this: a truth isn't an objective truth just because you BELIEVE it to be one. And even if you interpret your bible in a certain way, there may be christians who interpret it in an entirely different way. You can't 'sell' the whole idea that homosexuality is a sin to people who don't believe, or even to a lot of christians for that matter. If I ask some of you why being gay is sinful, and you're answer is 'because God said it is,' that answer in itself has no meaning for me, because I don't believe in God. If someone told you he once was abducted by aliens, would you believe him? Probably only if you believe in aliens yourself too.
Not that I think that christian belief is on the same level as believing in aliens, I respect christian tradition and its followers too much for that, I just used it as an example to make my point.

 

[Matthew4Jesus]

RIGHT ON MATTHEW - THOSE THAT CHOOSE TO BELIEVE THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS NOT A SIN, HAVE TO WORK REAL HARD (AND THEY DO) TO JUSTIFY THEIR BELIEF THAT IT'S NOT. GOOD THING WE LIVE IN THE GRACE DISPENSATION BUT THE DAY OF THE LORD IS COMING - HOLD YOUR STAND YOUNG MAN - AND ENDURE THE PERSECUTION OF THOSE THAT OPPOSE GOD'S WORD - THERE ARE MORE OF THEM THAN THERE ARE THOSE OF US. LORD BLESS - PAUL

Thank-you, that's incredibly motivating

 

[Kefa52]

My brother calles himself Gay. I have watched him grow up and I will add my two-cents here.
From a big brother ( in Christ) point of view.

First I would like to add that we are not our behavior. Good, or bad(sin).

I do not, and I will not identify myself by my behavior (or sin).

As a complex human being we have many behaviors. Why would I pick just one behavior (or sin) and identify myself by it. If I have 100 behaviors. That makes each behavior 1%. So why would I identify my whole existence buy 1% of myself.

So...when a person calls themselves Gay. They are taking their whole existance and defining thenselves by 1% of their behavior. They take all of their other gifts, tallents and interests and throw them out.

" We are born this way". So, it is still just 1% of you.

My brother works as a nurse. He is wouderful with people and he is gifted with disadvantaged young adults. He adds much good to his sphere of influence.

The lie of "GAY" comes from satan. He has the world, most Christians and the human with homosexual behavior condeming...For 1% behavior.

The deciever of this world bombards us with sexual everything every day, Sexy cars,sexy clothes, sexy vacation places, sexy bodies etc. The list is huge. What a mess.

I can go on and on. Even write a book. I can post scripture, and I am sure folks will post miles of scripture about this.

Homosexuality is an abomination you say. You better check what else is on that list.

My point is.. 1%.

 

[Eagleridge]

Hey Newcause - please don't think I'm patronizing you - but if you're an atheist, why are you hanging around a Christian Chat forum?.....go back to the HOME PAGE and look up ATHEISTS (my thread) and read what I said about the topic (several entries) and come back and tell me your HONEST (heartfelt) thoughts...not the FRONT you're putting up or the IMAGE you want the public to see but the REAL you and let's talk about your DECLARATION..that you're an atheist....I want to help you with that....I CAN .....down deep, you WANT to believe and I feel the Lord brought me to this forum to touch IF ONLY ONE PERSON ....could that me you?....with the knowledge and wisdom He imparted to me over the 30 years I've walked with him...I'm just a vessel.....no one special...trust me...I know that....just an extension of Him...please just think about it and let's talk in a private forum if you choose - but somehow, I feel you're reaching for God.......HE'S REACHING FOR YOU....I started up a prison ministry several months ago in Maximum Security in Ottawa.....meeting inmates with similar beliefs.....let me help you send you something I wrote recently (easy to read) "The Pursuit of God" ....answers to ALL your questions ....Sincerely - Paul

 

[GodBible]

Got called a bigot the other day for explaining to a girl how homosexuality is a sin. I was not judging or using westboro tatics how do we handle this?

I thought the old testament doesn't count anymore.

 

[GodBible]

Would we still have this notion of "sin" and the importance placed upon it if the Bible didn't mention it?

 

[GodBible]

@Newcause

One doesn't have to have much for a skill in reading comprehension to see that scripture quite clearly describes Homosexual sin as just that, sin. That being said... there are many who try to create disputes and debates over something in which there is no real debate or dispute. Unfortunately this is fairly common. This doesn't just apply with the Christian bible either, but a many numerous applications can be found for this insight.

Lawyers can be very good at this.

Actually in Leviticus 18:22
"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

It could mean "lie" as in not telling the truth.