How long can a Christian go without sinning?

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Sep 3, 2016
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And it came to pass, when Moses held up his hand, that Israel prevailed: and when he let down his hand, Amalek prevailed. Exodus 17:11

Amalek was to dwell in the land, but not to reign in it. Romans 6:12 says, "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies." The command would be unmeaning if the sin nature were not existing in the Christian. The sin nature dwells in a Believer, but dwells and reigns in an unbeliever.

Let me say this again! Do not miss this!

Works of the flesh
Paul tells us this in the 5th Chapter of Galatians. The entire Book of Galatians, but especially the 5th Chapter, is a warning from Paul to the Church at Galatia, which is also meant for us. The warning is that if they place their faith in anything except “Christ and Him Crucified,” that “Christ shall profit you nothing” (Gal. 5:2).

The Apostle goes on to say that if the Believer doesn’t adhere to the Way of the Spirit, which is the Way of the Cross, then works of the flesh will manifest themselves. He said:

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God” (Gal. 5:19-21).

Now let me say it again, because it is so very important:
If the Believer doesn’t understand the Cross of Christ, as it regards Sanctification, then, in some way, one or more of these “works of the flesh” are going to manifest themselves in his life. As stated, such is inevitable! The first four, “Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, and lasciviousness,” are obvious and easily understood. But the modern Christian quickly dismisses “idolatry, witchcraft, and heresies,” thinking they do not really apply today.

Let us address that:
First of all, any suggested way of victory other than the Cross of Christ, such as the “Purpose Driven Life,” the “Government of Twelve,” the “Word of Faith,” or “Denominationalism,” etc., constitutes idolatry. In effect, it is the same as Old Testament times, when Israel would begin to worship idols instead of Jehovah. To be sure, Israel actually referred to these idols as Jehovah; but the Lord definitely did not look at it in the same manner! And neither does He look any differently at modern idolatry!
Furthermore, all of this constitutes “heresies,” in which the modern Church abounds.

Let me say it more clearly:
Any doctrine, way, scheme, or direction made up by men, which means it is devised by men and not by God, is constituted by the Lord as “heresy,” which is a “work of the flesh.” Let me say it again, and because it is so very, very important! Any way other than “Christ and Him Crucified” is, in the eyes of God, “heresy.” Once one begins to understand these “works of the flesh,” these things become more obvious.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Well, this is why I stated the focus is wrong. Our focus shouldn't be on seeing how long we can go without sinning, but instead to focus on God's love and walking in His plan for our life. God will in His process of sanctification address areas that we need fine tuning, and as our Lord, we will surrender to Him.

This question does come up though, and I think the answer people give is revealing to what they perceive is their relation to sin. Are we set free or not? :)
Not from day one. From day one we are set free from the wages of sin (death), but then begins the process of crucifying the flesh/putting to death the enemies in the land so that they do not rise up to conquer us but remain in submission. You will never convince a man who can't ever seem to get himself free from inward resentments and angers that he is free from sin yet or that sin doesn't still have control.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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The hands "upheld" signified total dependence on the Lord. When the Believer is totally depending on the Lord, and what He did for us at the Cross, the victory of Christ belongs to us; otherwise, it doesn't!

Exodus 17:12 says, "But Moses' hands were heavy; and they took a stone, and put it under him, and he sat thereon; and Aaron and Hur stayed up his hands, the one on the one side, and the other on the other side; and his hands were steady until the going down of the sun."
(The "Stone," as well, is symbolic of Christ. Moses exhaustion portrays the fact that our own efforts soon result in spiritual burn-out. But once we are in God's glorious way [sitting on the Stone], the victory is ours. "Aaron" was a Type of Christ as our Great High Priest, and "Hur," whose name means "light," speaks to us of the Holy Spirit. This is the help afforded the Child of God. But unfortunately, most Christians are trying to hold up their hands [trusting in God] by their own personal strength, which is doomed to failure.)

The Holy Spirit doesn't require much of us, but He does require one thing, and without reservation. Our Faith must be exclusively be in Christ and the Cross, understanding that this is God's Prescribed Order of Victory. When we stay "victory" we are speaking Victory in every capacity, be it spiritual, financial, domestically, physical, etc. God's Prescribed Order of Victory is "the Cross of Christ."

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)

Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!

The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

Exodus 17:13 says, "And Joshua discomfited Amalek and his people with the edge of the sword." (The "sword" here is a Type of the Word of God [Eph. 6:17]. The Word of God holds the answer to every single problem which pertains to "Life and Godliness" [2 Peter 1:3-4].)
 
Nov 12, 2015
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I don't doubt your sincerity. You're still not getting what I'm trying to say, so let's try this another way.

You do agree Mark 12:30-31 is the goal, right? Anything short of that is sin, right?

Then try this:
On this forum don't defend yourself for one day. Because defending self is the opposite of Mark 12:30-31.

Can you do it? You might be able to do it through sheer effort or through God. If you can, I have more hope for you to be without sin for a while than I have hope for me to be without sin for a while. I've been trying not to defend myself for a year now. Can you even tell? It's that hard. lol

And just so you get this, I wasn't putting you down for writing this. I was telling you how deeply ingrained self is to us, so we can start recognizing the depth of our sins.

One of the repeated statements on this site is "Christians don't sin intentionally" as if it's only a booboo when we don't do it intentionally. We ALWAYS do it intentionally! It's always about "self first." If Paul was a wretched man, we should at least recognized we are wretcheder!

Addiction 101: The first step is recognizing there is a problem.

Our problem is we are addicted to self.

Don't believe me? Try not defending yourself for one day.

Why? It's not just you. It's all of us. Just trying that one step in not being the center of the universe is tough enough to see how full of self we are. (A year of trying just that one thing. Still working on it, and I doubt anyone can tell the difference. lol)
The trick is to stop trying to stop it. You can't. You can do a little better at times, but that is outward. You are still having the anger or resentment inside and are trying to stop exploding and showing it outwardly. You have only struggled with it for a year. I struggled for...over 8 years before I finally said, I give up. I can't do it. (Some get it much sooner than I did, but I have an excuse - my parents named me Jenny and a Jenny literally IS a mule.) You must come to see that all your effort is very useless and you will only control, a little better or a little worse at times, the outside of your cup that others see. ( Or the outside of the cup that they hear, because we're talking about our Lynne here. :D)

He is going to have to do something to change that there is anger or resentment inside because that is what causes the exploding outwardly. I would counsel to just tell Him you see that it can't be done by you and to tell Him you're just going to wait for Him to fix it somehow. This is faith in HIM, not in self effort.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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Satan tempts a child of God for destruction. God test His children for victory.
 
Mar 2, 2016
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The reason Jesus never said the law comes down to love God, love others, and love self is because "love self" is already ingrained in us. We think of ourselves above all others. What we think of ourselves really doesn't matter, because, in the end, it always comes down to what everyone else should do for us. ("I'm not lovable, but everyone should love me anyway, so it's their fault." "I am the most wonderful person in the world, so everyone should honor me." Either end, that's where we go.)

The thing that goes against our nature is to think God, and then others, should come before self, just like we already think they should love us first.

That is the amazing part about God. He demands (with love) that we become all we can be, which is not love-self first. He always wants the opposite of what we want. And he does that for the same reason parents gives their baby milk, instead of sugar water. (And, let's face it. Given the choice without dealing with the ramification, we'd rather have the sugar water. And it feels kind of bad that we're given mere milk, when there is sugar water.) Because he loves us so much he only wants what is good for us.

Right now, we're torn between having fun and doing something for God or for someone else. The "have fun" part is how much we love self. We already love self just fine. Imagine changing that around to loving others and loving God being more important than having fun. AND, more enjoyable! That's what God's plan is. We were designed to love God fully and love others as much as we love ourselves.

Sin sunk us down to love-self first.
I would argue that people do a very poor job at "loving" themselves. It may not look like it to a casual observer but selfishness is actually self abuse.
 
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Sully

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I would argue that people do a very poor job at "loving" themselves. It may not look like it to a casual observer but selfishness is actually self abuse.
True, we do half the heavy lifting for the enemy in just this area.
 

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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I did not say a person may not sin,and I am not saying I may not sin,but the point is a Spirit led life can abstain from sin,because the person that allows the Spirit to lead them does not want to sin,and the Spirit leads them to do things spiritual,which then they are not under the law,for the law cannot touch them for prosecution.
So at least you don't teach sinless perfection. I have been coming across more and more people lately on multiple Bible discussion forums who claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect (exactly as Jesus is) 100% of the time. I believe that such people are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness (1 John 1:8-10)

There is no excuse that we cannot abstain from sin,or we are going to sin no matter how hard we try not to sin,or we are only human so we will sin,for the Bible says specifically that a Spirit led life will not sin.
Yet how many never sin at all? We can't say the devil made me do it, yet the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.

So it is not a debate of being arrogant as if we never will sin,for we are still in the flesh and have the capability to sin if we desire,but people make excuses that they cannot abstain from sin when the Bible says you can abstain from sin by the Spirit.
It's not about making excuses, but how many of us live a sinless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time?
The truth it is not that they cannot abstain from sin,but they want to sin,which even the world can abstain from sin if they want,but they are in the flesh,and want to sin,and it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,so we have a choice.
We have a choice, yet the Bible says in 1 John 1:8 - If we say we have no sin, (PRESENT TENSE) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

People do not abstain from sin because they cannot do it,they sin because they want to sin plain and simple.
In Romans 7:15, Paul said - I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Stop interpreting scriptures according to the flesh.
That's not what I'm doing. Scripture must harmonize with Scripture and sinless perfection is not taught in the Bible.

You sin because you want to sin,not because you cannot abstain from it,for even the world can abstain from sin if they want,for it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,and you are choosing evil when the choice of good is there.
So why have ALL sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23) if it's so easy to completely abstain from sin?

How is there an excuse when sometimes you see people that do not confess Christ,but believe in God,that have a better lifestyle and abstain from sin better than some that claim Christ,which creation testifies of a God that loves people,and they abide by that,which lets me know the ones that claim Christ but do not abstain from sin as well as one that believes in a God but does not claim Christ,that there is something wrong,especially when we put on Christ.
Be careful not to judge by the outward appearance. I've met people before who on the surface "appear" to live godly lives, yet behind closed doors, it's a completely different story.

The truth is if you are going to sin at least be honest,and do not say,I cannot help it,but admit,hey,I be digging on this here sin,and I know it is wrong,and God does not like it,and I am not right with Him when I sin,but I enjoy it like the dickens for it tingles my flesh something fierce,instead of lying that you cannot abstain from sin,for do you think you are fooling God.
I know that sin is wrong and I confess (acknowledge, agree) with God that sin is wrong and I don't try to excuse my sin to God. He knows my heart and my weaknesses. I am a work in progress, just like all believers are. It's called ongoing sanctification.

How can a Christian have an excuse for why they cannot abstain from a certain sin,when I see people of the world that can abstain from that sin,and do not like it. What up?
You don't infallibly know everyone's heart, but God knows our intentions, so be careful when you judge others in this regard.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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I think the time is not far away when we will all be finished with sin. What purpose does it serve?
 
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Depleted

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So now I can blame God when I text and drive and get in wreck because He is in control of that?
Yup! If you are his, it's still for your good and his glory.

If you aren't his, it's still for his glory.

I was the idiot who decided to walk home and hope I could hitch a ride on a deserted road at midnight on a Sunday night. I was the one who accepted the ride from five guys headed the opposite way, because they promised they were going for a beer run before going home. (BTW, the liquor store was opened when we arrived. I always thought they closed on Sundays early, back then.)

My stupidity! Really wish I didn't do that. All the stuff parents warn their daughters happened to me that night... except, God was there, so the guy did not chop my head off with that ax and did not bash my skull in with that bat. (I was able to get the coat's hood off my head, so he could have a clean shot both times, and did tell him to do that, because I'd prefer to be dead over raped.) Absolutely, my fault. My stupidity, and God's doing.

Not that I deserved to be raped, no matter how foolish I was, but because in having gone through that, I became equipped to help others go through that. I blame God, in a good way. If not that, who would I be now?

In like kind, if Saul wasn't on his jackass going to kill other Christians (his stupidity -- I really do feel better knowing I'm not the only stupid person in the world), than Jesus wouldn't have reach him at that spot and turned him into Paul. Who would have Paul been without 3 stints in prison, a shipwreck, and a sickness where many worried he'd die? I'm sure he wasn't comfortable going through all that, but is there any doubt God didn't change him to God's good by going through all that?

So, yup! I blame God. He does good even when we do stupid. The only thing that changed is me more aggressively seeking NOT to do stupid anymore.

And between you and me -- do either one of us really think I won't do stupid anymore? lol

God even uses stupidity for his good works.
 
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Depleted

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The trick is to stop trying to stop it. You can't. You can do a little better at times, but that is outward. You are still having the anger or resentment inside and are trying to stop exploding and showing it outwardly. You have only struggled with it for a year. I struggled for...over 8 years before I finally said, I give up. I can't do it. (Some get it much sooner than I did, but I have an excuse - my parents named me Jenny and a Jenny literally IS a mule.) You must come to see that all your effort is very useless and you will only control, a little better or a little worse at times, the outside of your cup that others see. ( Or the outside of the cup that they hear, because we're talking about our Lynne here. :D)

He is going to have to do something to change that there is anger or resentment inside because that is what causes the exploding outwardly. I would counsel to just tell Him you see that it can't be done by you and to tell Him you're just going to wait for Him to fix it somehow. This is faith in HIM, not in self effort.
I've got the temper usually associated with the Irish. (I'm Irish, so, okay. :eek:) God is working through me. There is still habit. If I don't remember "God is working through me" I revert back to habit. When God is working through me, there is no anger. I've gotten all the way up to eye-roll instead of resentment. (Eye roll = momentary irk. Resentment = forever angered.)

I do still explode at times. (Can I get an Amen out of any of the people I've exploded on?) But standing up for myself used to be a really important thing to me. Why? Why has become vague anymore. (I would have to spend a bit of time to try to remember, but seems like wasted time.) That is God.

This is his baby. All I've really learned is once he gets me through this, he'll come up with something else that has to be worked on. (There was a time I thought I had "a couple of flaws." Now I realize the list of flaws may be endless... at least until glorification.)
 
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Depleted

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I would argue that people do a very poor job at "loving" themselves. It may not look like it to a casual observer but selfishness is actually self abuse.
On the base of what (for your argument?) And, huh? Totally didn't get this at all.

If you're up to trying to get through to me again, would you base it on the Bible, please? (If you're not up to it, I understand why you wouldn't be.)
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Sooo, when I struggle with having seizures every day, it's because of trust issues? Or when I struggled with sciatica for half a year? Or when I was forced into bed 24/7 with a herniated disk, again for half a year? Or the struggles I still have today, two years later, that are a continuing side effect of the sciatica and herniated disk? I find it hard to believe that I struggle with these trials because of trust or faith issues.

Or am I missing something in your post?
Yes, you are definitely missing my intent. I don't say ANY sickness is the result of mistrust. I say that mistrust is our biggest struggle.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Sirk, did you mean by that that it is actually abuse because of the torment it gives us to know that we treated someone worse than ourselves or worse than what we ourselves would like to be treated by them? In that sense, yeah, I agree we are tormented by our selfishnesses after we meet God. It's hungering for more than just forgiveness. We actually WANT to BE good.
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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DEFINE YOUR TERMS

You are still theorizing about sin without defining it.

It is logically impossible to have a discussion about something you refuse to define.



Define "SIN", and define "SINS"... what exactly are you claiming you can overcome?


I'm not debating your doctrinal position, I'm imploring everyone to be rational.

You cannot, CANNOT discuss something until you define it.
1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

Gal 5:19-21 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:3-6 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No sexually immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.

Rev. 22:12-16 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
 
Nov 12, 2015
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[SUP]3 [/SUP]And the people thirsted there for water; and the people murmured against Moses, and said, Wherefore is this that thou hast brought us up out of Egypt, to kill us and our children and our cattle with thirst?
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]And Moses cried unto the Lord, saying, What shall I do unto this people? they be almost ready to stone me.

[SUP]
5 [/SUP]And the Lord said unto Moses, Go on before the people, and take with thee of the elders of Israel; and thy rod, wherewith thou smotest the river, take in thine hand, and go.

[SUP]
6[/SUP]Behold, I will stand before thee there upon the rock in Horeb; and thou shalt smite the rock, and there shall come water out of it, that the people may drink. And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.

[SUP]
7 [/SUP]And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the Lord, saying, Is the Lord among us, or not?

[SUP]
8 [/SUP]Then came Amalek, and fought with Israel in Rephidim.​ Exodus 17



As a child of God expect the Amalek's to come against you. As soon as the Holy Spirit starts to move in your life, don't think Satan is going to sit idly by and watch it happen. As the water in those days was a precious commodity because there was no water, Amalek saw the water coming out the rock and wanted the water. Satan is going to do whatever he can to steal what God has given you. As a child of God don't allow this to happen. It is imperative that all Believers maintain Faith exclusively in Christ and His Finished Work, i.e. The Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus, i.e., The Law of the Spirit of Life IN Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). This guarantees victory over the world, the flesh, and the devil. The child of God must always set the LORD in front of him. Why? Because He is our answer.
What an astounding post!
A good workman takes from some of the old and from some of the new...it's a verse somewhere
 

BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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Believers aren't that much different from non-believers when it comes to sin then. The difference is only that this set of sinners have faith in Christ. As rosy as that sounds and as self-deprecating as some are, God's word doesn't paint this picture.

We are not like the world, we are not supposed to be walking in the flesh (though at times we do). To simply ascertain that we sin just as much if not more than people who do not have Christ, then something is utterly wrong in our approach. If you look at the fruit of a believer and that of a non-believer and find them to be equal in conduct, something is awry.

There is a verse that speaks of a believer having sin that not even the pagans have. Yet, this is carnal Christianity. This is a babe in Christ having yet matured. This is someone who hasn't been in their walk long, and been progressively sanctified. Such a person needs to awake to righteousness and sin not. They need to walk out their identity in Christ. They need to renew their mind. Just because it exists doesn't mean that it should be the case. They shouldn't be using their liberty as an occasion for the flesh, but to use their members for righteousness.

The point being, to say that we sin daily paints a very sad tale. It paints a picture to those in sin, the world, that the burdens that so oppress them are still yet burdens in Christ. This shouldn't be so! What hope do we offer those in darkness if we claim to be of the light and yet present ourselves as being in the shadows?

Salvation isn't just about a ticket to Heaven. There is wholeness involved, and deliverance. There are chains being broken and liberty bestowed. This isn't like the song that says "Hello darkness my old friend", but rather an embrace of walking in the light, that is Jesus Christ. We have been set free from sin's dominion, we are dead to sin. God sets us free from sins, as He sanctifies us. Such burdens and wickedness do not have their grip on us, only in that we perceive them to.

To the sinner entangled in his flesh that gives him the propensity to sin, we offer a solution. We do not simply pat them on the back and say that we all sin. We encourage them and exhort them into their identity in Christ and reveal to them the truth of being born-again. Their taste for righteousness and the things of God restored. A propensity for righteousness. As I recently read, a fish out of water can only stay on land for so long. In the same way that to sin for us is contrary to our new nature in Christ, having been born-again. It is out of the ordinary, or it should be.

Again, this isn't about sinless perfectionism. This is about the deliverance from sin's dominion in our lives.
 
Dec 17, 2013
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I don't think that loving ones self is ingrained in people what you are talking about is self preservation which is primal ALL animals have it.

Loving ones self is a byproduct of self respect,self control and self awareness.

A perfect example is the Native Americans that live on reservations they have sime of the highest suicide rates because awareness of self and everything that goes with that(self respect,self control) is not taught,this is also why it's normal for them to steal everything in site.

Im not racist im Native American and we steal from each other it's perfectly normal athough it shouldn't be.