How long can a Christian go without sinning?

[posthuman]

According to the bible, some people were perfect in keeping God's law, so I guess that answers that.
The context here is also before Jesus' death so the law spoken of is definately the mosaic law.

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

however in the law is an offering for sin which has been committed without being aware of it.
so even to keep the law blamelessly is not by itself proof of being without guilt.

If anyone sins, doing any of the things that by the Lord's commandments ought not to be done, though he did not know it, then realizes his guilt, he shall bear his iniquity. He shall bring to the priest a ram without blemish out of the flock, or its equivalent, for a guilt offering, and the priest shall make atonement for him for the mistake that he made unintentionally, and he shall be forgiven.It is a guilt offering; he has indeed incurred guilt before the Lord.
(Leviticus 15:17-19)​

 

[posthuman]

however in the law is an offering for sin which has been committed without being aware of it.
so even to keep the law blamelessly is not by itself proof of being without guilt.

If anyone sins, doing any of the things that by the Lord's commandments ought not to be done, though he did not know it, then realizes his guilt, he shall bear his iniquity. He shall bring to the priest a ram without blemish out of the flock, or its equivalent, for a guilt offering, and the priest shall make atonement for him for the mistake that he made unintentionally, and he shall be forgiven.It is a guilt offering; he has indeed incurred guilt before the Lord.
(Leviticus 15:17-19)​

for example, suppose that under the law, i acted in some way which did not fully satisfy that great commandment, "you will love the Lord your God with all your heart" - but at the time, i did not understand that i was not fulfilling this word completely.
later, when i comprehended my error, i faithfully made the guilt offering described in Deuteronomy 15:17-19

in this case i have kept the Lord's commandments blamelessly, but i am not without sin.

understand?

 

[wsblind]

I. Define Our Terms

Before discussing how long we can go without sinning,
let's define sin.

Ben, what is sin?

What precisely is your definition of sin?

Let's define it in 2 ways.
1. Conceptual Definition: Let's get a nice, clear, broad, conceptual definition of the term.
2. Specific sins: Lets get a long list of specific sins... so we can really dig into this.

Hey, if you want to talk about sin... then let's really dig into it.



II. How Often:
If we can ever agree on definitions for "sin" and "specific sins", THEN we can determine how often we sin.

AFTER we really take a look at what SIN is, and what SINS are...
THEN we can determine how OFTEN we're sinning.

Let's not GUESS at this... let's really define this, and really take a close look.

Until we can define "sin" and define "specific sins"... we have no way to tell how often we're sinning.


We are forced, logically, to create these definitions and lists BEFORE we can answer the question of HOW OFTEN.

You are correct. And logically, We can't and won't have the definitive answer. Our finite brains can't handle the true scope of our sinful state.

SOOOOOO, Thank God it no longer has authority of us. Christ does.

 

[Sirk]

Would you be surprised to know that it seems a lot of believer's answer to this is hardly but a day? Recently a pastor at my church was asked this question and his response to the question, "Can a Christian not sin for a day, a week, a month, or a year?" was "I don't think so." Of course he left himself open for criticism and said if anyone wants to teach him better to just pull him to the side. He wasn't being definitive, but always keeps an open stance because he believes the Lord can show people stuff that he is missing.

Anyways, I find it peculiar is all. This seems to be a Christian stance on sinning, that we can hardly go a day or a week without sinning. Yet, I don't find this stance in the Bible. We don't get a warning from the apostle Paul or in any of epistles stating something like, "You're not perfect. You're going to keep sinning, but keep going." or, really any statement that you will sin, but rather if you do sin (we have an Advocate with the Father).

We are told to not use our liberty as an occasion or opportunity to entertain the flesh but to serve in righteousness. We are encouraged to reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God, because as Christ died and rose, we did we (represented in baptism). You'll see the epistles stating who we are in Christ. Righteous loving people, zealous of good works. All of this speaks to walking in righteousness, even saying that sin doesn't have dominion over us because we are not under the law but grace.

Why is our response to this question hardly but a day when scripture states we've been set free? Why is it so hard for a Christian to believe a believer can go a long period of time without sinning or even a short period of time? Have we not died to sin? Did not this propensity get taken from us, where we have the choice to sin (having had the old man be crucified)?

To think that the leadership in the Church believe that we cannot go any period of time without sinning is baffling. What has happened to sanctification? Does God not chastise? Do we not have the fruit of the Holy Spirit? Did not Christ die to set us free, to make us who were once dead now alive in Him, having been born-again? Where is our liberty, to not sin, but to serve in the newness of the spirit? Aren't we supposed to awake to righteousness and sin not?

This isn't talking about sinless perfectionism, this is talking about the mindset of the Church in relation to sin. They still see themselves in chains, when God says that sin shall not have dominion over you. What is the reasoning for this?

It's a pretty easy question to answer really. God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. Do you suppose there is any darkness in a human being? People make this such a complicated stupid question. My question is...why try? Why not just stand in grace. I thought Jesus' burden was light....it either is or it isn't and this debate is getting to the point of complete absurdity.

Do you ask your children to be perfect. Do you demand them to be without fault? If you do you are a terrible mean parent.

Mistakes and bad choices are how we learn....if we don't make them and learn from them we are not growing.

 

[BenFTW]

It's a pretty easy question to answer really. God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all. Do you suppose there is any darkness in a human being? People make this such a complicated stupid question. My question is...why try? Why not just stand in grace. I thought Jesus' burden was light....it either is or it isn't and this debate is getting to the point of complete absurdity.

Do you ask your children to be perfect. Do you demand them to be without fault? If you do you are a terrible mean parent.

Mistakes and bad choices are how we learn....if we don't make them and learn from them we are not growing.

Well, this is why I stated the focus is wrong. Our focus shouldn't be on seeing how long we can go without sinning, but instead to focus on God's love and walking in His plan for our life. God will in His process of sanctification address areas that we need fine tuning, and as our Lord, we will surrender to Him.

This question does come up though, and I think the answer people give is revealing to what they perceive is their relation to sin. Are we set free or not?

 

[Depleted]

I wasn't asking, "Whats wrong with you people?" I am well aware of me wording things in such a way as to alienate myself from the rest, as I was writing. I took a mental note of it, which is why "we" is is very helpful word. I think the Lord kept me in check as to not get prideful because any time I worded it in such a way that implied me versus them, I couldn't but help think of Paul's thorn in the flesh (for his revelations and to not get prideful).

I am not being prideful but was careful as to not present the perspective of, "How have you all missed it?" Such a question, if it was worded, was in dumbfounded-ness that so many fellow believers truly don't believe we can walk even a day in righteousness. It wasn't said in the way you portrayed it comparing it to Mark 12:30-31. It was said in sincerity.

I don't doubt your sincerity. You're still not getting what I'm trying to say, so let's try this another way.

You do agree Mark 12:30-31 is the goal, right? Anything short of that is sin, right?

Then try this:
On this forum don't defend yourself for one day. Because defending self is the opposite of Mark 12:30-31.

Can you do it? You might be able to do it through sheer effort or through God. If you can, I have more hope for you to be without sin for a while than I have hope for me to be without sin for a while. I've been trying not to defend myself for a year now. Can you even tell? It's that hard. lol

And just so you get this, I wasn't putting you down for writing this. I was telling you how deeply ingrained self is to us, so we can start recognizing the depth of our sins.

One of the repeated statements on this site is "Christians don't sin intentionally" as if it's only a booboo when we don't do it intentionally. We ALWAYS do it intentionally! It's always about "self first." If Paul was a wretched man, we should at least recognized we are wretcheder!

Addiction 101: The first step is recognizing there is a problem.

Our problem is we are addicted to self.

Don't believe me? Try not defending yourself for one day.

Why? It's not just you. It's all of us. Just trying that one step in not being the center of the universe is tough enough to see how full of self we are. (A year of trying just that one thing. Still working on it, and I doubt anyone can tell the difference. lol)

 

[Sirk]

Well, this is why I stated the focus is wrong. Our focus shouldn't be on seeing how long we can go without sinning, but instead to focus on God's love and walking in His plan for our life. God will in His process of sanctification address areas that we need fine tuning, and as our Lord, we will surrender to Him.

This question does come up though, and I think the answer people give is revealing to what they perceive is their relation to sin. Are we set free or not?

I know I am. I don't claim to know what other people are. I'm hard enough on myself at different times.

It's really simple...if your thought life is consumed by evil thoughts you will reap a character based on that. If your thoughts are Godly holy thoughts you will reap a character based on that.

 

[Depleted]

I. Define Our Terms

Before discussing how long we can go without sinning,
let's define sin.

Ben, what is sin?

What precisely is your definition of sin?

Let's define it in 2 ways.
1. Conceptual Definition: Let's get a nice, clear, broad, conceptual definition of the term.
2. Specific sins: Lets get a long list of specific sins... so we can really dig into this.

Hey, if you want to talk about sin... then let's really dig into it.



II. How Often:
If we can ever agree on definitions for "sin" and "specific sins", THEN we can determine how often we sin.

AFTER we really take a look at what SIN is, and what SINS are...
THEN we can determine how OFTEN we're sinning.

Let's not GUESS at this... let's really define this, and really take a close look.

Until we can define "sin" and define "specific sins"... we have no way to tell how often we're sinning.


We are forced, logically, to create these definitions and lists BEFORE we can answer the question of HOW OFTEN.

I can define sin by first defining not-sin. This is not-sin.

[h=1]Mark 12:30-31[/h][FONT=&quot]30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”[/FONT]

Anything short of that is sin.

What's short of that? Loving self above God and others.

 

[Depleted]

if to sin is to fall short of the glory of God,

then none of us can go a single fraction of a nanosecond

I disagree. Rumor has it if I'm sleeping, but not dreaming, I have not thought or done a single sinful thing. So, I have gone without sinning as long as I have been able to sleep without dreaming. (Because dreaming is me taking over in thought, so highly likely I'm sinning there too.)

 

[Sirk]

I can define sin by first defining not-sin. This is not-sin.

Mark 12:30-31

30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Anything short of that is sin.

What's short of that? Loving self above God and others.

Is loving ourselves as much as someone else sin?

 

[blue_ladybug]

Sooo, when I struggle with having seizures every day, it's because of trust issues? Or when I struggled with sciatica for half a year? Or when I was forced into bed 24/7 with a herniated disk, again for half a year? Or the struggles I still have today, two years later, that are a continuing side effect of the sciatica and herniated disk? I find it hard to believe that I struggle with these trials because of trust or faith issues.

Or am I missing something in your post?

Oh...! That is absolutely NOT what I intended to sound like I was saying. The struggle just begins when you have only just had what seems such a brief time in that first glow of realizing how loved and lucky you are to have met the love of your life!

You don't realize yet that the source of your struggles comes from areas of mistrust and unbelief and that when that mistrust displays in an area, it is the very thing that causes us to lose that first peace and begin our struggle.

There is a verse also that we later come to experience too though: after you have struggled for awhile with sin, He will confirm, establish, and strengthen you.

The struggle moves from trying harder and harder to more trust in Him to do it somehow, even though you have no idea how He will ever accomplish it. This very act of movement from mistrust (or from feeling you owe it to the one who saved you to be pleasing to Him) towards trust is where you begin to experience the truth of that verse.

 

[Depleted]

This is off topic, but I've seen banned users set up new user IDs using different, false information in order to avoid being detected as a formerly banned user, who advocated sinless perfectionism strongly.

I get a chuckle out of this. One claimed he actually was sinless, but had no qualms with using deceit to regain admission into the chat room. In the course of time he revealed himself and got banned again.

I also think that sinless perfectionism by nature involves 1) setting up a standard that doesn't reflect God's holiness in order to claim the person is sinless and 2) a lot of self deception.

I don't think we can trust our carnal minds to assess our spiritual condition very well, either. Jeremiah 17:9 comes to mind..the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked..who can know it? Our hearts deceive us into thinking we've got ourselves cleaned up when in reality we have not. Sooner or later I think the Holy Spirit reveals our self deception and our alleged righteousness falls apart. That happened to me earlier in life, and I know I can't totally trust myself to properly assess my spiritual status. Maybe at some level, but there are some areas where we deceive ourselves in this regard. It's the essence of self righteousness.

I think God is very gracious to us. Our sin is like an iceberg. We can only see 10%. If we saw the whole thing, we'd curl up in a corner and die of shame and frustration.

 

[Depleted]

The question is not really so much so about the length of time as it is the possibility of doing so. So when its asked if its possible to not sin daily, weekly, or yearly the important factor here is not the time table but whether or not a Christian can, will, or ought to not sin for periods of time.

How often isn't really quantifiable, to a certain degree (and is very subjective), but what I am sharing is extracting the truth from God's word and comparing it to the belief that we cannot abstain from sin for a day, a week, a month, or an hour. This belief seems contradictory to the sin nature being crucified, and us reckoning ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God (symbolized in baptism).

Think of the question not in terms of quantifying, but whether its possible to sin not. When its stated that a believer cannot abstain from sin for any period of time, quantifying is irrelevant. We need to first establish that we are set free from sin, dead to it, and therefore we serve in the newness of life. We are slaves to righteousness and not sin. Without this foundation any means by which we determine how often we sin is pointless because such sin is a result of having not renewed the mind to the reality of who we are in Christ.

Before we were regenerated we were unable to not-sin. We are still unable to not-sin. The thing that changed is God in us. He is able to not-sin. And when we readily go where he takes us, we don't sin, which is different than "we are able to not-sin."

 

[BenFTW]

Before we were regenerated we were unable to not-sin. We are still unable to not-sin. The thing that changed is God in us. He is able to not-sin. And when we readily go where he takes us, we don't sin, which is different than "we are able to not-sin."

What does "dead to sin" mean to you?

Romans 6 King James Version (KJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Locutus]

Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

The above is not saying they were sinless, it's saying they followed all the ordinances in the law such as offerings for sin etc.

Paul claimed the same thing about his observance:

Phil 3:5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Phil 3:6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

 

[Depleted]

Well, this is why I stated the focus is wrong. Our focus shouldn't be on seeing how long we can go without sinning, but instead to focus on God's love and walking in His plan for our life. God will in His process of sanctification address areas that we need fine tuning, and as our Lord, we will surrender to Him.

This question does come up though, and I think the answer people give is revealing to what they perceive is their relation to sin. Are we set free or not?

We're set free of the consequences of all our sins. We have a new master now though. His name is God. We are freed, but not to do whatever we feel like and have the "whatever we feel like" be the focus. We have been set apart. (The meaning to the word "sanctified.") At glorification we are then set apart for our purpose to glorify God forever by becoming not-sin. That is the full freedom.

Israel was "set free" from Egypt. Set apart. Did that make them sinless either?

 

[Grace777x70]

for example, suppose that under the law, i acted in some way which did not fully satisfy that great commandment, "you will love the Lord your God with all your heart" - but at the time, i did not understand that i was not fulfilling this word completely.
later, when i comprehended my error, i faithfully made the guilt offering described in Deuteronomy 15:17-19

in this case i have kept the Lord's commandments blamelessly, but i am not without sin.

understand?

Amen...there is a vast difference between trying to keep the Law and having the righteousness of God which is only found in Christ. Paul who was a Pharisee of Pharisees knew the difference.

We know that Jesus elevated the Law to show what it's real intent was. He elevated murder to just having anger. He elevated committing adultery to having lust in your heart.

Philippians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless.

[SUP]7 [/SUP] But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,

[SUP]9[/SUP] and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

 

[Sirk]

We're set free of the consequences of all our sins. We have a new master now though. His name is God. We are freed, but not to do whatever we feel like and have the "whatever we feel like" be the focus. We have been set apart. (The meaning to the word "sanctified.") At glorification we are then set apart for our purpose to glorify God forever by becoming not-sin. That is the full freedom.

Israel was "set free" from Egypt. Set apart. Did that make them sinless either?

We are not set free from the consequences of our sin. We still deal with them in this life. Touch a hot stove....burn your finger type of thing.

 

[Issachar92]

They were righteous, not perfect.

it says what it says. im not saying ive kept God's commandments and ordinances perfectly, dont get spooked now

 

[blue_ladybug]

Yeah but most people know enough to not touch a hot stove..

We are not set free from the consequences of our sin. We still deal with them in this life. Touch a hot stove....burn your finger type of thing.