How old and big is Jesus?

[Zmouth]

The scriptures say that man has not seen the eternal God at anytime. Since the eternal not change in nature or form, being the Father of lights in who there is no variableness nor shades of turning. Then if the Gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost.

Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. John 6:46

 

[Zmouth]

Right! Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. He's the uncreated Creator, the second person of the Holy Trinity.

If Jesus is eternal he could neither be created, neither could he die. If he could die he could not be God, and if not God he could not save. God is a Spirit, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Luke 24:39 Does the spoken word have ink and paper as you see the written word have?

 

[redeemed2014]

If Jesus is eternal he could neither be created, neither could he die. If he could die he could not be God, and if not God he could not save. God is a Spirit, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Luke 24:39 Does the spoken word have ink and paper as you see the written word have?

You are taking that verse out of context he was showing them that he had come back in the flesh and resurrected bodily. You also have a spirit within you

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The flesh in this verse is talking about your adamic nature. Its not my place to say if you have the Spirit of God dwelling in you but brother i know he is in me!

God Bless

 

[Tintin]

If Jesus is eternal he could neither be created, neither could he die. If he could die he could not be God, and if not God he could not save. God is a Spirit, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Luke 24:39 Does the spoken word have ink and paper as you see the written word have?

Ah. Yes, God is Spirit, but Jesus (God the Son) is fully-God/fully-man. He was and is God, but while on earth as a man, He limited Himself. In this way He is both eternal and could die.

 

[redeemed2014]

Ah. Yes, God is Spirit, but Jesus (God the Son) is fully-God/fully-man. He was and is God, but while on earth as a man, He limited Himself. In this way He is both eternal and could die.

Luckily for us though death could not hold him

 

[Tintin]

Luckily for us though death could not hold him

Right, brother! Jesus stomped up and down on death.

 

[kedge]

Pleeeze... Is Jesus the Arch-angel Michael?

.

Maybe Jesus was, just because that write up says he was not is only of their reasoning on Scripture.

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe God came from heaven to earth, yet they cannot deny someone came down. So they shift the identity of the one who ascended to an arch angel, Michael. Jesus is supposedly Michael because his name means ‘who is like God. "It proves Michael the archangel is no other than the only begotten son of God, now Jesus Christ. The very name Michael means who is like God and indicates Jehovah God is without like or equal." (New Heavens and New Earth pg.30-31). Jesus is actually the incarnation of Michael the Arch angel and resumed the name when he ascended intoheaven ( ibid. pg.30 Your will be done on earth pg.316 )

If one investigates church history not even the Arians who started the idea Jesus was a created being with divine qualities believed he was an angel. No one in the church history (at least of any influence, good or bad) has ever presented Jesus as Michael the arch angel.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/quote]

Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe God came from heaven to earth.

Why should anyone believe that a Supreme Almighty God that has no beginning nor end like the only One mentioned in the Holy Bible had left the heavens (spirit realm, God's realm/residence) transformed Himself into an embryo then placed Himself into the womb of a mortal being, who was then executed, died, and then resurrected Himself? I personally find this very difficult to believe. How can an Almighty God that is everlasting die?

who is like God and indicates Jehovah God is without like or equal.

According to Scripture there is only One true God and that there are none before nor any after.Again, how am I and others to believe that a son can be the same age as his father? many times the Bible states that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, a Son denotes a lesser entity than a Father. How many men have had sons and how many of those men can they say that their sons are equal in age to them? seriously, the whole premise is ludicrous.

 

[kedge]

Colossians 1:19 "For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him."

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

 

[kedge]

Plus multiple other passages in our bible that shows a trinity (I can post if you wish).

What you will do is show me Scripture and then your interpretation of those Scriptures, but yes show show me the word trinity and where the word trinity is stated in Scripture and that Jesus is part of the trinity.

you have already marked everybody that will contest your statement as a workman of satan.

Or the mutterings of demons? demons set out to criticize harshly and show no love doing this, unless demons have love?

I am assuming that you have scripture to back your statement up

I can quote or interpret Scripture just like anyone can, is it the truth? people will have to discern for themselves.

 

[kedge]

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Seeing these verses how can you say that the Lord Jesus Christ is not God in the flesh?

Incarnate, personified, when Jesus said that he and his Father are one that might pertain to being just one in union or agreememnt with each other rather than being one and the same person?, it is how one chooses to interpret the Holy Bible. How can something everlasting die?

 

[Zmouth]

You are taking that verse out of context he was showing them that he had come back in the flesh and resurrected bodily. You also have a spirit within you

Actually it is a soul, but I'll let you explain exactly what you mean by the 'spirit' within since it appears that you think that I was misrepresenting what Jesus was saying when in Luke 24:36-40
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

Is the spirit an actual form of matter of this physical world or is it the same substance that God formed the universe from. So if they thought they saw a spirit then apparently they saw something but why would they be scared of him since they expected his resurrection?

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

The flesh in this verse is talking about your adamic nature. Its not my place to say if you have the Spirit of God dwelling in you but brother i know he is in me!

God Bless

Ok, not trying to refute what you are saying, but I am dwelling in the flesh and my own physical body which originated from my biological parents yet it is not their flesh but my own.

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: Lev 17:11

Yet maybe the LORD put in on your heart that you are not in the flesh and I don't won't to argue against what the LORD has told you. After all the scriptures say that without the spirit the flesh is dead. Yet in addition to the blood, there is the spirit and the water* these give life to the flesh of all creatures wherein their nostrils is the breath of life according to Genesis 7:13-15;

13 In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
14 They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
15 And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.


*1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.


Likewise I am of my heavenly Father but I am not my heavenly Father yet you are saying that "i know he is in me!" so can you explain what you mean by that?

 

[Zmouth]

Ah. Yes, God is Spirit, but Jesus (God the Son) is fully-God/fully-man. He was and is God, but while on earth as a man, He limited Himself. In this way He is both eternal and could die.

Then in that way Purerinheart can say that he was both eternal and created....

 

[notmyown]

Ah. Yes, God is Spirit, but Jesus (God the Son) is fully-God/fully-man. He was and is God, but while on earth as a man, He limited Himself. In this way He is both eternal and could die.

Then in that way Purerinheart can say that he was both eternal and created....

but perhaps not in the way she means it.

 

[Tintin]

Then in that way Purerinheart can say that he was both eternal and created....

No, something that is eternal has no beginning. Something that is created has to have a beginning. God has no beginning. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.

 

[garee]

From my experiences the JW's try to make God who is not a man as us into two separate entities as literal Father and a Son .
Supernatural God as in no nature, a beginning, has no mother or father as a beginning of days or end of spirit life. He is not a man in respect to an outward form as us and therefore there is no daysman (a word not used that often) between man and God .

For he is not a man, "as I am", that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.Job 9:32

God's desire is the we still walk by faith as that not seen. (not to look to a fleshly Jesus).

Coming in the flesh for a one time demonstration of Him pouring out his Spirit not seen.It did not change that law found in Job 9. He himself said the flesh prophets for nothing. It is His unseen Spirit that gives us new spirit life. In that way he is no more literally a father and a son then he is literal a lamb . Father and son together is used as a metaphor for that not seen .We could say as two attributes of God

Christ said the Father and I are one.

Although he as God temporally existed in the form of man he resisted all attempts of being worshiped in respect to the temporally flesh. He would say when approached in worship according to his temporal flesh and called good master; only God is good to protect His faith principle. .

There is no daysman between God and man .That would describe wiles of the devil who has no form but needed a form to make the word of God without effect. The same MO as in the garden when he took the form of a creature. Just a different kind of beast of the field (serpent) other than man . .

 

[know1]

A lot on this site and elsewhere criticize the Jehovah's Witnesses unfairly imho, the Governing Body of JW's have admonished and published some fine articles, and around our way they are the only true acting Christians that follow in Jesus foosteps and Jesus commanded his followers to preach from house to house village to village city to city. I can see Scripturally why they object to idolatory and the use of the cross in worship to God and I can see why they say Jesus is in subordination to his Father, and they actually use the name of the God of the Bible which they say appears thousands of times in the Christians Holy Bible. God is a title, God – YHWH (translated Jehovah in English) why is God's personal name missing in many places from many Bibles?

A son can not be the same age as his father, a father cannot be his own son, I think the trinity doctrine is absurd, incongruous.

If you are born again, didn't you already exist before you came to be a son of God the Father?
So I ask, why then does Jesus have to have a start or birth date of His existence for when He became the Son of God the Father?
And to take this further, I ask, did your existence start after you were given a new heart, or were you already a living soul?
Did you just come into being as a baby when you received a new spirit man, or were you already here for a while before that event took place, if it had taken place?
The fact is, we become children of God when we come to understand and receive the Word of God personally, and then God removes the stony heart out of our flesh and gives us a heart of flesh, puts a new righteous spirit man in us, and puts His Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, in us. Then, and only then are we born again, and become children of the Most High God.
But there is more to it than that.
In order for one to understand how Jesus can be both the Son of God and God at the same time, I think you need to know who He is IN God.
The bible says we are made in God's image, after His likeness. Therefore, we have to be made like God. Which means, we have to be triune beings ourselves.
Without going into scripture at this time, we are three, yet one, just like God.
One of those three beings in us is the heart.
When it comes to God, Jesus is the Heart of God.
That is why I asked, how old is the Heart of God?
I have to stop for now.

 

[know1]

No, something that is eternal has no beginning. Something that is created has to have a beginning. God has no beginning. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.

The way you worded this, just doesn't sound right.
To say God has no beginning, then say, He is the beginning, almost sounds contradictory and like He did have a beginning of days.
Not that I see it that way, I'm just saying it's how it come across as saying.

 

[mpaper345]

Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,who is God,and man,in harmony,and the Spirit in Christ is still connected to the omnipresent Spirit of God,for God cannot be separated.

Jesus has no beginning as God,but has a beginning as the man Christ Jesus.

The Bible says that Jesus dwells in the light,whom no person can approach unto,whom no person has seen,and no person will see.

The Bible says the throne in heaven,is the throne of both God,and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

God said,is there a God beside Me,there is no God,I know not any,and there was no God formed before Me,and there shall be no God formed after Me,I,even I,am the LORD,and beside Me there is no Savior.

If Jesus is God manifest in the flesh,He can only be that one God,which the Bible says when the ruler of Israel is to come,He will be from everlasting,which means He will have no beginning.

Jesus is God,who has no beginning,and is invisible,that showed a visible manifestation of Himself.

But it is correct that the term Son means to be fathered,and have a beginning,or else the term Son,has no meaning,and contrary to what some people believe,Son refers to the man Christ Jesus,for there is no God the Son,which Isaiah 9:6-7,calls the Son,the mighty God,the everlasting Father,which Jesus said to His disciples when He resurrects to heaven,to not ask Him anything,but only ask the Father,but in another passage of scripture Jesus said when He goes to the Father,to ask Him,and He will do it,which Jesus said if you have seen Him,you have seen the invisible Father.

 

[kedge]

If you are born again.

The concept of spiritual rebirth is not too difficult to understand and that it is beyond any logic or reason, I get what this is refering to.

didn't you already exist before you came to be a son of God the Father?

If I become a true follower of Christ then yes of course I already existed, I am not sure about becoming a son of God, unless it is meant in the concept of Father and His earthly subjects and being part of God's family and being a son in that sense?.

So I ask, why then does Jesus have to have a start of His existence for when He became the Son of God the Father?

Because some interpret from Holy Scripture that Jesus the Son of God had a prehuman existence. Some say that Jesus himself said at John 6:38 that Jesus came down from heaven not to do his own will but to do the will of Him who sent Jesus and that Him is refering to God and not Jesus. And at John 8:23 Jesus said “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. Therefore the prehuman existence. I am from my biological parents and they created me, Jesus was conceived through Holy Spirit, some say mary was able to conceive Jesus without having had intercourse with Joseph the adoptive or earthly father of Jesus.

did your existence start after you were given a new heart, or were you already a living soul?

I came into existence through my biological parents, yes, in many aspects I have come to know deception in this world, I am a sinner and I sin, the heart in that sense has enlightened me or has given me intellectual insight, the Holy Bible is a helper to me as a reader of it to try to better understand Scripture, much of it I don't think I really understand but much of it I can reason with, I look to see what others say on matters.

The bible says we are made in God's image, after His likeness. Therefore, we have to be made like God. Which means, we have to be triune beings ourselves.

I am a single man not a triune being, the concept of the tinity is confusing at times. It is like someone saying that YHWH or Yaweh or Jehovah is the Almighty God, that Jesus is Yaweh or the Almighty Jehovah God and the Holy Spirit is a person? that all these three entities are not three seperat entities but only One person, but the way Scripture is written it is very confusing, why would the Almighty God prey to Himself? how can the Almighty God of all creation die?

we are three, yet one, just like God.
One of those three beings in us is the heart.
When it comes to God, Jesus is the Heart of God.
That is why I asked, how old is the Heart of God?
I have to stop for now.

So there is only One true God, why would the Almighty One True God call himself the Son of God, why the confusion? what if (YHWH Yaweh Jehovah) is the One true Almighty God, Jesus Christ (Son of God) and the (Holy Spirit) are all three seperate entities? although what really is the Holy Spirit is it the active force of the only One true God?

 

[know1]

If I become a true follower of Christ then yes of course I already existed, I am not sure about becoming a son of God, unless it is meant in the concept of Father and His earthly subjects and being part of God's family and being a son in that sense?.

You don't follow Christ until AFTER you become a son of God, and without faith, it is impossible to be a son of God.
The bible says your righteousness is not your own. Neither is your salvation.
When you act on the truth of the gospel, and receive Jesus personally, He will take of His Spirit and put it within you. The bible calls that same said spirit, which is of the Holy Ghost/Spirit, a seed. A seed is another word for offspring or child, but it is an extension of the parent.
Because of that righteous spirit, seed, or offspring from the Holy Spirit was put in your heart. And because that same said spirit that was put in your heart is a part of God and is a child of God, and because your heart is a part of you, you were made a child of God. But in order for you to receive this new spirit of His, first, God had to remove the old stony heart out of your flesh and give you a new or fresh heart of flesh. But He didn't stop there.
Though God did remove the old heart and give a new one in its place, He did not remove the old spirit man, that has the nature of the devil in him, because it has a part of the devil in him.
So for you to become like God, God gave you a new or fresh wine skin/spirit man to hold the fresh, new, righteous, pure, holy spirit/wine that came from the Holy Spirit. Ezek 36:26-27.
To put it another way, God removed the old heart, and put a new one in its place, with a new spirit man within that new heart. The new spirit man houses the spirit that is OF and FROM the Holy Spirit. The new spirit man within your heart is the temple in which the new righteous spirit of God abides. It is like the building within the temple that was divided into two rooms by a curtain. One room was called the holy place, and on the other side of the curtain or vale, was the Holy of Holies or the Holiest of All. It is a figure of the Holy Spirit abiding within the man. The bible refers us to the temple, saying that we are the temple of the Holy Ghost. The inner part of that temple is the new spirit man that has within him a part of the Holy Spirit. This is how we have the nature of God. This is why we become like Him. It is because of His spirit that He put within us.

Because some interpret from Holy Scripture that Jesus the Son of God had a prehuman existence. Some say that Jesus himself said at John 6:38 that Jesus came down from heaven not to do his own will but to do the will of Him who sent Jesus and that Him is refering to God and not Jesus. And at John 8:23 Jesus said “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. Therefore the prehuman existence. I am from my biological parents and they created me, Jesus was conceived through Holy Spirit, some say mary was able to conceive Jesus without having had intercourse with Joseph the adoptive or earthly father of Jesus.

Not prehuman, but preGod.
Jesus wasn't saying that He was a human being before, but that He existed before He became a human being or natural man.
If Jesus was conceived from Joseph, He could not be of God. But the seed that was put in Mary's womb was of the Holy Ghost, who is the Spirit of God. And know it or not, but the Spirit of God came out of and from Jesus, the heart of God.

I am a single man not a triune being, the concept of the tinity is confusing at times. It is like someone saying that YHWH or Yaweh or Jehovah is the Almighty God, that Jesus is Yaweh or the Almighty Jehovah God and the Holy Spirit is a person? that all these three entities are not three seperat entities but only One person, but the way Scripture is written it is very confusing, why would the Almighty God prey to Himself? how can the Almighty God of all creation die?

Think about a whole pizza that has been cut into smaller pieces. Didn't the smaller pieces of the pizza exist the same time the whole pizza did? And did the smaller pieces become any less of a pizza than the whole pizza before it was cut.
With God, there is the head. That would be the Father. I believe He just subdivided Himself, yet still is one God, even as you have three men in you, and yet are one man. We are so united with the other parts of us, that most people don't even recognize the voices of the other two in there. They only see themselves as one being.

So there is only One true God, why would the Almighty One True God call himself the Son of God, why the confusion? what if (YHWH Yaweh Jehovah) is the One true Almighty God, Jesus Christ (Son of God) and the (Holy Spirit) are all three seperate entities? although what really is the Holy Spirit is it the active force of the only One true God?

Even as you have a heart, God has a heart.
Even as your heart is a part of you, though you don't recognize it yet, so is the Heart of God a part of Himself.
Even as your heart is a man, looks like, thinks, reasons, has intentions of its own, sees, hears, and talks like you do, God's Heart looks like, thinks, reasons, has intentions of its own, sees, hears, and talks as He does.
God the Father is just the Head, even as you, the soul, are the head when you are consciously awake and aware of what you are doing.