I expect an answer from you so called learned Christians

[zone]

JOURNEY:

was Jesus Christ created by God?

 

[Raistlin]

1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Manifest in these last times for you....
NOT before the manifestation, but after the manifestation.
And what did the manifestation accomplish?
A CHANGE of priesthood.
A new covenant fulfilling the old.
So those of old are not yet touched by the new.
One has to LIVE the new covenant which fulfills the old, which was a type of what was to come..a school teacher before the graduation.
To come..
Meaning, not yet in effect.

 

[2knowhim]

Raistlin,

"One has to LIVE the new covenant which fulfills the old, which was a type of what was to come..a school teacher before the graduation."

Ah, yeah, And that was Jesus Christ

Unless you think we are saved by works.

we are living it now, and so are they.

 

[Raistlin]

This is probably geared toward some who Interpret Israel in a certain way. Anyways here are some verses..

The prophets were looking forward to Jesus. They prophesied about him.

Matth 13

16 "But your eyes are blessed because they do see, and your ears because they do hear! 17 For I assure you: Many prophets and righteous people longed to see the things you see yet didn't see them; to hear the things you hear yet didn't hear them.

Acts 3

23 And it will be that everyone who will not listen to that Prophet will be completely cut off from the people.

24 "In addition, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those after him, have also announced these days. 25 You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God made with your forefathers, saying to Abraham, And in your seed all the families of the earth will be blessed.


1 Peter 1

10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that would come to you searched and carefully investigated. 11 They inquired into what time or what circumstances [c] the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating when He testified in advance to the messianic sufferings [d] and the glories that would follow. [e

These were SHOWN a glimpse of it, as you quoted yourself : Many prophets and righteous people longed to see the things you see yet didn't see them; to hear the things you hear yet didn't hear them.

Shown it does not equate being subject to it nor privy to all its implications as the above stated quite plainly.

The door was not yet opened for them to share in it.
And one has to WALK through that door by invitation.
And to be invited through that door, that door first needs be opened physically and spiritually.
That didn't happen until after crucifiction.

 

[Israel]

No man can come to the Father but by Jesus indeed, BUT no man can come to Jesus except the Father draw him.

The meaning to this is important when understanding the operation of God towards saving all men.

 

[cronjecj]

All those of old were under ONE law.
The priesthood did not change until Christ.
No dual covenant then or now or future.
Man could only go through Christ the door AFTER His death, not before, the door wasn't opened yet.
The testament is not in effect until the testator is dead.
So these are not yet saved through Christ.
It was not available either in the physical nor spiritual world until after crucifiction.

Christ has always been the door, Jesus is the God we serve and the prophets served the same God.

You got no idea what you are quoting me on here, the door was only open after his death?

Next time think more clearly before you quote someone and add your own theology in it.

 

[cronjecj]

This is probably geared toward some who Interpret Israel in a certain way. Anyways here are some verses..

The prophets were looking forward to Jesus. They prophesied about him.

Matth 13

16 "But your eyes are blessed because they do see, and your ears because they do hear! 17 For I assure you: Many prophets and righteous people longed to see the things you see yet didn't see them; to hear the things you hear yet didn't hear them.

Acts 3

23 And it will be that everyone who will not listen to that Prophet will be completely cut off from the people.

24 "In addition, all the prophets who have spoken, from Samuel and those after him, have also announced these days. 25 You are the sons of the prophets and of the covenant that God made with your forefathers, saying to Abraham, And in your seed all the families of the earth will be blessed.


1 Peter 1

10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that would come to you searched and carefully investigated. 11 They inquired into what time or what circumstances [c] the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating when He testified in advance to the messianic sufferings [d] and the glories that would follow. [e

These were SHOWN a glimpse of it, as you quoted yourself : Many prophets and righteous people longed to see the things you see yet didn't see them; to hear the things you hear yet didn't hear them.

Shown it does not equate being subject to it nor privy to all its implications as the above stated quite plainly.

The door was not yet opened for them to share in it.
And one has to WALK through that door by invitation.
And to be invited through that door, that door first needs be opened physically and spiritually.
That didn't happen until after crucifiction.

uh uh i wouldn't do that if i were you.

 

[2knowhim]

No man can come to the Father but by Jesus indeed, BUT no man can come to Jesus except the Father draw him.

The meaning to this is important when understanding the operation of God towards saving all men.

It certainly is Israel,

Joh 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

I've noticed that there has been much said here lately about receiving and rejecting.

But according to this, that's just not the case, again things are not always as they appear.

Who can resist the will of God?

Blessings

 

[Laodicea]

I expect an answer to my question.

Jesus said no man can come to the father but by me


so the question is
What will happen to Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea and the rest of the prophets? Are they all lost? Because the word of God cannot be broken. Jesus said I am the door, no man can come to the father but by me.


No trick of the tongue please.
God's word cannot be broken...

Have you heard of the sanctuary message? It teaches the plan of salvation. Christ dwelt among them through that. Exodus 25:8. If you want more info on the sanctuary there is a thread about it started by gotime

 

[Abiding]

Yes, Moses had faith. So did Abraham and all the prophets. But they were still under the Law (except Abraham of course)

I could take you through Romans 5 or 1Peter 3..and lots of other scripture
but your attitude really blows me off.

 

[Raistlin]

dispensationalism is horrible.

Romans 11:2-5
"God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,

Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."

These scriptures actually back the other teams argument !
ELECTION of grace. Whos election?
Well, this particular Election is concerning the remnant .
After all, this is who is being spoken of.
And who are the remnant?
They are DNA Jews.
Not Christians.
Christians are not the remnants.

Consider these ELECTIONS of grace:

Job 19:25-26
25 > For i know that my redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth;
26 > And though after my skin worms destroy this body; yet IN MY FLESH shall i see God;

Isaiah 26:19 > Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in the dust; for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

Ezekiel 37:6 > And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live, and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Christians are translated into Spirit...not flesh.
Yet these are being raised in the flesh.

Acts 3:16-21
"But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

You didn't notice it did you?
Your mistake.
Jesus had already come and died at this point...and the ones who rejected Him are being spoken to here....yet what does it say?

And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

But Jesus had already come..and was preached to them...then this can only mean one thing....His second coming.

And why will He send Jesus?

when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord

Matthew 17:11-12
"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them."

Does this sound familiar : He shall make it desolate, even unto the consummation.

Or this : And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break My covenant which I had made with all the people.


So what was being restored?
The way back to God was...a door was opened...
But was John really the one restoring it?

NO.

He was preparing the way...Jesus was the One who restored it at Calvary. John could not do Jesus' job...John was not the Lamb..Jesus was.

Amos 9:13-15
"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.

And I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them.

And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God."

During the millennium. Future prophecy.
Israel according to revelation/Matthew etc, is yet to be attacked again and scattered one last time.
So the last verse that you quoted of that scripture proves it is future.
You are backing pre-millennialists here.
Good job.

Luke 4:18
"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"


Isaiah 61:1-4
"The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations."

And where was this fulfilled?
In ISRAEL.
And who did Jesus say it was fulfilled to/before/in the presence of ?
The JEWS.
And those Jews that believed Him, what happened to them?
They were freed from the old law.
So they are no longer captives/prisoners/bound by the old law.
The old law was only for the Jews after all.
And the law had not yet gone out to the Gentiles either at that point.
You have made a big boo boo.

John 6:44-45
"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

You say we are in the kingdom now.
So why quote this scripture that speaks against your interpretation?
Another boo boo.

"and I will raise him up at the last day"

It is THIS last day when they will be taught:

When? when will they be taught?

AFTER they are RAISED UP.

Again: "and I will raise him up at the last day"

When one is IN the kingdom, one can never die again.
One is immortal.
How many times must we die by your interpretation i wonder?
No, your explanation is a confliction of understanding im afraid.

 

[cronjecj]

You say we are in the kingdom now.
So why quote this scripture that speaks against your interpretation?
Another boo boo.

"and I will raise him up at the last day"

It is THIS last day when they will be taught:

When? when will they be taught?

AFTER they are RAISED UP.

Again: "and I will raise him up at the last day"

When one is IN the kingdom, one can never die again.
One is immortal.
How many times must we die by your interpretation i wonder?
No, your explanation is a confliction of understanding im afraid.

That is the second resurrection you are speaking of.

Behold the kingdom of God is within you (first resurrection) Luke 17:21 (KJV)

 

[camragirl73]

read revelations

 

[Raistlin]

Raistlin,

"One has to LIVE the new covenant which fulfills the old, which was a type of what was to come..a school teacher before the graduation."

Ah, yeah, And that was Jesus Christ

Unless you think we are saved by works.

we are living it now, and so are they.

No, that is not what you were saying.
You were saying that they were included in this.
They of the old covenant.
You were wrong.
So don't try changing your meaning.

 

[shroom2]

...Who can resist the will of God?

Anyone.

God wants all men to be saved. He made salvation available through Christ to any person who will choose to believe. Obviously, not all believe. They are resisting the will of God.

 

[Raistlin]

That is the second resurrection you are speaking of.

Behold the kingdom of God is within you (first resurrection) Luke 17:21 (KJV)

ALL those who ever lived partake of the second judgment (resurrection)
They are resurrected to be judged for a witness and a testimony and to know that the Lord is indeed real to their shame for their harsh words against Him.
That is everyone who did not follow Christ, and even the Christians who did not follow in Spirit and truth.
These all will be judged by their works.
A very hard judgment to pass.

The first resurrection partakers can never die again.
Can you die?
I can.
The Apostles did.
So we can not be resurrected at this present time then.

When we are resurrected we will be made like the our brethren the angels...immortal spirit.
For flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[systemdown101]

So here is a question Journey

Israel is currently preparing to attack Iran

Am I expected to blindly support this instigation of war?

When an Israeli sniper randomly shoots a Palestinian kid for kicks and giggles am I supposed to call it the will of God?

No, you're supposed to condemn that person. Just as much as you should condemn all those Muslims who think suicide bombing is justifiable. Or charity money being funneled to pay for such activities. Should I go on?

I see people pretty quick to judge Israel, but seem a biiiiit lax when you consider what's going on around them. It sort of reminds me of the old question: You're on an airplane in the Mid-East. It's somehow damaged and you have to land somewhere. Where do you want to land: On an Israeli airport, or a Palestinian one? It's funny how most people would rather land in Israel. Go figure.

I mean, why should Israel plan a war against a country whose president has said Israel must be "wiped off the map"? Certainly planning a pre-emptive strike would be foolish, especially with a country that's working hard to build up a nuclear program. I mean, it's not as if Israel wouldn't use nukes immediately on their enemies once they had them. Except for the fact that they haven't.

 

[Raistlin]

And in case any think i have contradicted myself...

when the DNA Jews are raised in the flesh...
They are not inheriting the spiritual kingdom...
but are merely dwelling in the flesh kingdom...
learning the spiritual from Christ Himself...
with the Holy Spirit given to them and growing within them.
It is that Holy Spirit which is used to turn them into spirit. see Romans 8:11 for conformation.

 

[zone]

You say we are in the kingdom now.
So why quote this scripture that speaks against your interpretation?
Another boo boo.

"and I will raise him up at the last day"

It is THIS last day when they will be taught:

When? when will they be taught?

AFTER they are RAISED UP.

Again: "and I will raise him up at the last day"

When one is IN the kingdom, one can never die again.
One is immortal.
How many times must we die by your interpretation i wonder?
No, your explanation is a confliction of understanding im afraid.

hi devo....

 

[zone]

And in case any try to be clever...

when the DNA Jews are raised in the flesh...
They are not inheriting the spiritual kingdom...
but are dwelling in the flesh kingdom...

learning the spiritual...
with the Holy Spirit growing within them.
It is that Holy Spirit which is used to turn them into spirit. see Romans 8:11 for conformation.

satanic doctrine.

what's in the water down there?