i have a question about gay couples with children

[just-me]

Once again, go back to the post and read the post I quoted and see the context of my response. I was addressing a certain statement. I was explaining certain situations. I wasn't supporting any of them. My thing is that people think, "Oh, just pull the kids out." If kids are adopted, they have already suffered great trauma, so in light of a same-sex couple getting saved, should the kids be tossed out? No. Why give the kids more trauma?

I was endorsing that if same sex couples really were to be saved they would part company in a marriage situation. That would leave the children in a signal parent household. That wasn't brought up. So I wanted to endorse that scenario also. So as you said, "Why give the kids more trauma?"

I have never supported a homosexual lifestyle or same-sex marriage. My only concern here is the welfare of the kids IN RESPONSE TO the comment in my OP that you quoted. So, if you go back and read the comment I am responding to, you will hopefully see the reason I wrote what I did. I was not writing it to enter into a debate. In fact, if you read back through the first few posts, you will see that the point of this thread is not to support or defend homosexuals, as the hypothetical scenario is the salvation and repentance of a lesbian couple and what should happen to the kids in that event. This is not a thread to discuss if homosexuality is a sin or if children should be adopted or raised by homosexuals. It was if the couple should stay together or if the home should be split up upon repentance and leaving the lifestyle behind.

That is also my concern. If something starts bad, and then is corrected according to God's Word, where does it leave the children? I say that it should have never been in the first place and that children should never have to live in that situation.

Luke 17:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
[SUP]2 [/SUP]It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

 

[mystdancer50]

I was endorsing that if same sex couples really were to be saved they would part company in a marriage situation. That would leave the children in a signal parent marriage. That wasn't brought up. So I wanted to endorse that scenario also. So as you said, "Why give the kids more trauma?"

This was, actually, addressed by me in my first response to this thread, but it was buried under a great deal of wordiness, for which I am well-known:

They definitely need to stop sinning, so they would have to break up/divorce. I am not sure if the children would still call both mom, but since there are families with step parents and the like, I think that they can maintain them as both being mom. The key to repentance is turning from the sin and stopping, so that would have to remedied. Everything else could be worked out. To continue living together would entice and open up for temptation to fall back into the lifestyle, so they would have to live separately.

One of the dangers Christians ignore is that feeling that they are 'strong enough' to return to a place where they were constantly tempted and fell consistently into sin. We are never strong enough to remove boundaries or bring things back into our lives that God had us remove and deal with. So, no matter how strong this couple feels in their faith, they would need to live apart, because the devil will use every opportunity to pull them back into bondage.

 

[just-me]

Well gays cannot be married in Gods eyes but I would not be so quick to destroy the stability that the adopted children have even in that kind of relationship. Now if the couple get saved and stop engaging in the ungodly behavior associated with sodomy I do not know why they could not live together except that the temptation to relapse into sodomy would be great. I suppose by Gods grace it could be done. Only God can do that which seems impossible to us.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Good hypothetical scenario, but not necessarily reality. You make a good point however "that the temptation to relapse into sodomy would be great."

 

[just-us-2]

I often look at the topics of threads in here and wonder how people who profess to be Christians, which automatically implies that they believe what the Bible says is right, can even come up with some of the "questions" that appear on the lists for "Bible Discussion". If the Bible, GOD'S WORD says a behavior is wrong there should be no questioning it.

 

[Heartsearcher]

I often look at the topics of threads in here and wonder how people who profess to be Christians, which automatically implies that they believe what the Bible says is right, can even come up with some of the "questions" that appear on the lists for "Bible Discussion". If the Bible, GOD'S WORD says a behavior is wrong there should be no questioning it.

i came up with it because this is a real life situation that happens and i myself couldnt figure out what would be the right responce. im sorry i upset u by my lack of understanding

 

[notuptome]

Good hypothetical scenario, but not necessarily reality. You make a good point however "that the temptation to relapse into sodomy would be great."

I agree that interpersonal relationships are complex. Only God can minister in these situations and I was assuming that the entire scenario was in fact hypothetical.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

i came up with it because this is a real life situation that happens and i myself couldnt figure out what would be the right responce. im sorry i upset u by my lack of understanding

Well that certainly makes it difficult. I cannot see into the hearts of the people involved but for sodomites to become saved does necessitate a complete change of heart. Continuing in sodomy would be counter to what one should expect of someone professing to be a Christian. It is akin to someone saying that they love their wife yet they continue to frequent other women.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[breno785au]

It would be an awesome testimony for the kids though; 'My two mums were once lesbians but then got born again and I saw Gods power work in their lives.'

 

[just-me]

It would be an awesome testimony for the kids though; 'My two mums were once lesbians but then got born again and I saw Gods power work in their lives.'

What was revealed to you concerning their relationship, and what did they do that was different?

 

[Misty77]

It's a really difficult situation, but nothing is beyond redemption. Since the union is not holy, then it will have to be dissolved. The children will be like the millions with divorced or never-married parents, most of which turn out just fine if they have otherwise healthy environments. The two moms or two dads can still platonically work together as loving co-parents.

 

[just-us-2]

i came up with it because this is a real life situation that happens and i myself couldnt figure out what would be the right responce. im sorry i upset u by my lack of understanding

You didn't upset me. And my comment refers to way more than you and this one thread. It wasn't intended as a personal criticism of you. If you notice the list of topics, many of them would easily fall into the category of doubtful disputations which we are to avoid. And we are to avoid contention with one another and there are people who post for the express purpose of causing contention. Again, I haven't noticed that you are one of those people so don't take that personally either.

I would like to suggest that possibly posting your question in the Family forum would probably turn up answers more like what you are looking for.

 

[just-me]

It's a really difficult situation, but nothing is beyond redemption. Since the union is not holy, then it will have to be dissolved. The children will be like the millions with divorced or never-married parents, most of which turn out just fine if they have otherwise healthy environments. The two moms or two dads can still platonically work together as loving co-parents.

You make some good points, nevertheless, as believers in the Word, I sincerely think that it would behoove all of us to speak out against those things that we know are wrong, rather than analyzing situations after the fact, in the name of compassion, and love. We should all have compassion, but the first thing that needs to come out of our mouths is the word of light being shed on darkness. The Word of God is a preventive maintenance program, for lack of a better term. If wrong can be stopped before it starts, we have done what is right. Real love is shining the light on darkness so that others can see their errors, as we see our own, that separate them, and us from God's Almighty hand. Marriage is a allegory to the church and Christ. I mentioned it once on post #9 but I might have missed something like that somebody else could have posted. It should me mentioned often concerning any marriage conversations. Marriage the right way represents the true character of Jesus Christ. Same sex marriage distorts and defames that characterization.

2 Corinthians 5:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Revelation 15:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

 

[Misty77]

You make some good points, nevertheless, as believers in the Word, I sincerely think that it would behoove all of us to speak out against those things that we know are wrong, rather than analyzing situations after the fact, in the name of compassion, and love. We should all have compassion, but the first thing that needs to come out of our mouths is the word of light being shed on darkness. The Word of God is a preventive maintenance program, for lack of a better term. If wrong can be stopped before it starts, we have done what is right. Real love is shining the light on darkness so that others can see their errors, as we see our own, that separate them, and us from God's Almighty hand. Marriage is a allegory to the church and Christ. I mentioned it once on post #9 but I might have missed something like that somebody else could have posted. It should me mentioned often concerning any marriage conversations. Marriage the right way represents the true character of Jesus Christ. Same sex marriage distorts and defames that characterization.

2 Corinthians 5:20 (KJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Revelation 15:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

I agree that we should do what we can to prevent wrong choices. HOWEVER, at the exact point in time that the couple has already been together and has already been raising children, we cannot get in a time machine and undo it. We have to deal with the situation as it lies before us.

If the adults have already come to Christ, then they already have the truth. My understanding of the example was that the parents are already deciding to separate (I could be wrong). If they have already repented of that lifestyle, we don't need to speak unhelpful condemnations or to remind them that they were wrong.

The marriage allegory is interesting but entirely irrelevant to the discussion. It would be appropriate if the question were about gay marriage in general. It serves no practical purpose in this conversation.

 

[just_monicat]

gay couples or gay marriage is wrong. period. the parents need to make things right.

but when children are involved, their interest becomes first.

i would prefer children be raised in loving, nurturing evironments where they are safe, loved, educated and have a chance in this world.

ideally, every child would grow up loved, cherished. and well-educated by loving christian parents.

as previously stated, to say "children should be taken away" is to ignore the fact that we have way too many children in the system. some of the statistics are misleading (i.e. underreported), but in 2011 we had well in excess of 100,000 kids sitting in the system waiting to be adopted. the majority "age out" of the system, reaching early adulthood without their own family.

i read somewhere that if someone from every church in america adopted a kid, there'd be no kids waiting for homes. while i can't cite a source on that "statistic", it does beg the question -- how can christians yell so loudly about gay parents when too few are willing to step up to the plate and do more?

a lack of family and belonging is a devastating thing to saddle any child with. foster parents are not permanent family. the kids that i work with that have the hardest time are usually the ones living with the (distant) cousin or wards of the state.

who is going to stay up late for the girl who is out on the street running around, experimenting with the harmful things that she's been introduced to by her friends? or track her down when she's run away? most foster parents are overworked, and underpaid. many look at it as a job, not a privilege (there are certainly exceptions, as well).

the state won't be looking for her late at night (or anytime after 4:30 on weekdays).

if you have a gay parent who's willing and prepared to do the job to the best of their ability, i'll take that every day of the week over the state system.

in these situations, the best we can hope for is to give kids the tools they need to survive and thrive in this world. it's not our job to run around thumping non-christians on the head because they aren't living like christians. They need Christ not condemnation.

as a christian, it just motivates me to want to be available/eager to love, speak/share with, pray for who needs it -- because we live in a world where most are growing up (or living) in less than ideal situations.

 

[Misty77]

how can christians yell so loudly about gay parents when too few are willing to step up to the plate and do more?

^^This wins the interwebs.

 

[just-me]

I agree that we should do what we can to prevent wrong choices. HOWEVER, at the exact point in time that the couple has already been together and has already been raising children, we cannot get in a time machine and undo it. We have to deal with the situation as it lies before us.

If the adults have already come to Christ, then they already have the truth. My understanding of the example was that the parents are already deciding to separate (I could be wrong). If they have already repented of that lifestyle, we don't need to speak unhelpful condemnations or to remind them that they were wrong.

The marriage allegory is interesting but entirely irrelevant to the discussion. It would be appropriate if the question were about gay marriage in general. It serves no practical purpose in this conversation.

In response to your first paragraph, I was insinuating; "where were the Christians before the fact?" It is good news to know that all of us were once in sin and now are saved from it, and it gets even better when we are part of others coming to Christ. I sincerely believe that if same sex couples claim to be saved and still continue the practice they have been deceived. So I agree with you there.

Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I like your second paragraph, yet the third is interesting yet not agreeable to me in that all marriage, according to God's word is an example to the world, and can be a true or false witness of God's character. That's why all marriages, and not just some honor or dishonor Christ. That cannot be sidestepped. If this were not so, Revelation would not talk about the whore, children, and the marriage. Children, family, and marriage are united together in every aspect, and Biblically that fact cannot be denied in God's sight.

Revelation 2:22-23 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.


Revelation 17:15-16 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Revelation 19:7 (KJV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

I hope that you can see the relevance. If not I am disappointed.

 

[Reformedjason]

If they have children, they need to split up and try to find a father for the children so they can be raised in a home like God intended. See how this sin messes things up?

 

[breno785au]

What was revealed to you concerning their relationship, and what did they do that was different?

Sorry, I dont understand your questions

 

[notuptome]

If they have children, they need to split up and try to find a father for the children so they can be raised in a home like God intended. See how this sin messes things up?

Well at least you attribute the problem to the correct source. It does not seem likely that finding a father is going to work so I'm afraid that making due with the mess you already have is best. Since this is not the sterile environment of a laboratory we'll need to manage with what we have on hand. These are after all people with emotions and frailties that only God can minister to. Ideal no but something workable perhaps.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[just-me]

It would be an awesome testimony for the kids though; 'My two mums were once lesbians but then got born again and I saw Gods power work in their lives.'

What was revealed to you concerning their relationship, and what did they do that was different?

Sorry, I dont understand your questions

Sorry, I thought you were speaking of your own experiences rather than a hypothetical. Am I right?