I hope the bible can shed some light.

[homwardbound]

The text refers to the unregenerate.
One must be born again to receive a measure of faith.

Sorry Sister I differ acording to the context of Scripture it is explaining the differance between Flesh and Spirit nothing else

[h=3]Romans 8[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Free from Indwelling Sin[/h]8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

So do you walk according to the flesh? or the Spirit of God, this is waht the context is about

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, because

if I love God, I will not take his name in vain, nor worship idols;
if I love my parents, I will not dishonor them;
if I love my neighbors, I will not steal from them, nor kill them, nor commit adultery with their spouses;
nor lust after their possessions.

okay so you obey Law, please tell me how this is accomplished, I know you said you Love, so is your love that has accomplished this?

 

[europanz]

you can find the answer on this site Living Stream Ministry - Online Publications

 

[DiscipleDave]

I'm not wishing to cause contention or confusing but seeking more clarification, so I pray you won't be offended

Anyone can be Saved, it is the Grace of God that allows ANYONE to be Saved, no matter what they have done in the past. To be Saved is a gift from God, given to ANYONE who will receive it, they receive it through the Grace of God.
^i^

Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"

Everything else you said I would agree because I believe from my studies of the bible that this is sound doctrine, but please help me to understand why you say, and not even understand but from scripture please where this teaching comes in at? as far as through God grace we are saved? I thought it was BY his grace we are saved THROUGH our faith which is why I pasted the scripture there so we can take a look at it, thanks!

Brother you can't pick and choose which verses you will believe in and which verses you will ignore, void, or interpret away. It is only when all verses agree with each other, before a person can come to the Knowledge of the Truth.

For example you quote Eph 2:8 For by Grace are ye Saved, the problem is you view that verse to be a CONTINUAL Grace, one that does not end, therefore you are SAVED FOREVER, no matter what. That is not Scriptural. Verses that teach "He that endures to the end shall be SAVED, is in direct conflict with the belief you are always SAVED by Grace. If then you are Always SAVED by GRACE, then there would have been no need for the several verses which teach, those who endure to the end shall be SAVED, if indeed they are already SAVED. Do you see the conflict? So a person is SAVED (initially) by GRACE, exactly as EPh 2:8 says and teaches, the problem is people believe it to mean a continual grace, one that does not end, nor ever will end. This is not Scriptural. please read "Once Saved Always Saved" to see the Scriptural proof how that is a lie, and a false teaching. Grace does SAVE us, that is True, but GRACE does not, nor ever will KEEP us there, we can choose to backslide, we can choose to grieve the Holy Spirit, we can choose to FALL AWAY from God even after we are Saved by Grace. Look at Ananias in Acts Chapter 5. He believed the words of the Apostle and he too sold all that he had, but even though he believed, he did not remain there. Look at all the parable of Jesus referring to those who believed and fall away. Anyone can be Saved by Grace, Anyone can accept the Lord as their Savior and Lord, Anyone can repent of their sins. This does not mean they will continue to endure to the end to be SAVED.

 

[homwardbound]

Brother you can't pick and choose which verses you will believe in and which verses you will ignore, void, or interpret away. It is only when all verses agree with each other, before a person can come to the Knowledge of the Truth.

For example you quote Eph 2:8 For by Grace are ye Saved, the problem is you view that verse to be a CONTINUAL Grace, one that does not end, therefore you are SAVED FOREVER, no matter what. That is not Scriptural. Verses that teach "He that endures to the end shall be SAVED, is in direct conflict with the belief you are always SAVED by Grace. If then you are Always SAVED by GRACE, then there would have been no need for the several verses which teach, those who endure to the end shall be SAVED, if indeed they are already SAVED. Do you see the conflict? So a person is SAVED (initially) by GRACE, exactly as EPh 2:8 says and teaches, the problem is people believe it to mean a continual grace, one that does not end, nor ever will end. This is not Scriptural. please read "Once Saved Always Saved" to see the Scriptural proof how that is a lie, and a false teaching. Grace does SAVE us, that is True, but GRACE does not, nor ever will KEEP us there, we can choose to backslide, we can choose to grieve the Holy Spirit, we can choose to FALL AWAY from God even after we are Saved by Grace. Look at Ananias in Acts Chapter 5. He believed the words of the Apostle and he too sold all that he had, but even though he believed, he did not remain there. Look at all the parable of Jesus referring to those who believed and fall away. Anyone can be Saved by Grace, Anyone can accept the Lord as their Savior and Lord, Anyone can repent of their sins. This does not mean they will continue to endure to the end to be SAVED.

How does God is Faithful we are not fit in?
How does God carries on the work that God started in you fit in?
How does he who started the good work in you will carry it on until the day of Christ fit in?
How does salvation not saved by works fit and one is not saved unless God draws you?
Once one understands and has recieved from God the truth, how can anyone takeaway waht God has done for that person?
The works issue is God's work and the only work we are called to do is to enter God's rest, resting from our works as he did from his, now how does this fit in toyour doctrine of turniing grace into works of the flesh?
Along with where does flesh ever fit into God ever being pleased, besides Christ the perfect Son?
The only flesh that ever pleased God Jesus Christ
So why doyou promote the work of flesh? a works program afterbeing saved, that is no differant than what happened to the Galatians via Circumcision, and Paul asking them how did you recieve the Spirit of God by Faith (beleif) or works?
Belief is the what goes on continually in God the Father, God the Son and God The Holy Ghost, and by this belief trust in God, we can rest hebrews 3 and 4 very clear on how to enter God's rest, juist as Abraham, Noah, Paul, Peter, James and many others first Faith and continuance in that Fatih, for the just shall live by Faith, and be Holy, never in or by themselves, only by God's finished work at the cross

 

[DiscipleDave]

Brother you can't pick and choose which verses you will believe in and which verses you will ignore, void, or interpret away. It is only when all verses agree with each other, before a person can come to the Knowledge of the Truth.

For example you quote Eph 2:8 For by Grace are ye Saved, the problem is you view that verse to be a CONTINUAL Grace, one that does not end, therefore you are SAVED FOREVER, no matter what. That is not Scriptural. Verses that teach "He that endures to the end shall be SAVED, is in direct conflict with the belief you are always SAVED by Grace. If then you are Always SAVED by GRACE, then there would have been no need for the several verses which teach, those who endure to the end shall be SAVED, if indeed they are already SAVED. Do you see the conflict? So a person is SAVED (initially) by GRACE, exactly as EPh 2:8 says and teaches, the problem is people believe it to mean a continual grace, one that does not end, nor ever will end. This is not Scriptural. please read "Once Saved Always Saved" to see the Scriptural proof how that is a lie, and a false teaching. Grace does SAVE us, that is True, but GRACE does not, nor ever will KEEP us there, we can choose to backslide, we can choose to grieve the Holy Spirit, we can choose to FALL AWAY from God even after we are Saved by Grace. Look at Ananias in Acts Chapter 5. He believed the words of the Apostle and he too sold all that he had, but even though he believed, he did not remain there. Look at all the parable of Jesus referring to those who believed and fall away. Anyone can be Saved by Grace, Anyone can accept the Lord as their Savior and Lord, Anyone can repent of their sins. This does not mean they will continue to endure to the end to be SAVED.

How does God is Faithful we are not fit in?
How does God carries on the work that God started in you fit in?
How does he who started the good work in you will carry it on until the day of Christ fit in?
How does salvation not saved by works fit and one is not saved unless God draws you?
Once one understands and has recieved from God the truth, how can anyone takeaway waht God has done for that person?
The works issue is God's work and the only work we are called to do is to enter God's rest, resting from our works as he did from his, now how does this fit in toyour doctrine of turniing grace into works of the flesh?
Along with where does flesh ever fit into God ever being pleased, besides Christ the perfect Son?
The only flesh that ever pleased God Jesus Christ
So why doyou promote the work of flesh? a works program afterbeing saved, that is no differant than what happened to the Galatians via Circumcision, and Paul asking them how did you recieve the Spirit of God by Faith (beleif) or works?
Belief is the what goes on continually in God the Father, God the Son and God The Holy Ghost, and by this belief trust in God, we can rest hebrews 3 and 4 very clear on how to enter God's rest, juist as Abraham, Noah, Paul, Peter, James and many others first Faith and continuance in that Fatih, for the just shall live by Faith, and be Holy, never in or by themselves, only by God's finished work at the cross

Brother, know you not that we are going to be Judged by our Works?

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY Him;

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Why? What will happen if they do NOT maintain good works? Do a study on that through Scriptures.

Galations 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

I Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

What if they do not keep their souls to Him in well doing? Do a study in the Bible to find that out.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

By their WHAT? their Works did it say. Strange, if we are Saved by Grace (Always) why are we judged by our Works.

Please i beg you read the article Faith, Works, or Both to see many Scriptural references to how the Scriptures teach Faith and Works go hand in hand. They work together, not one without the other.

Works will never Save someone, EVER, But once a person is Truly Saved, they will have the WORKS. The works is proof who is in them. You can tell who has Christ in them, by the Love they have one for another, by their works that they do because they love one another. You will know them by their works.

^i^

 

[soldierofchrist4ever24]

Re: I hope the bible can shed some light.you one more

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. It plainly states that if we walk in the light... so we know that Jesus is the light within but here is another light. What light is this in 1John 1:7?

This is simply Hebrew Parallelism, and its found through out scripture, John would have been very familiar with this. in the context of this passage the Light would be Righteousness before i go i will leave you with one more example of this from scripture.
Isaiah5:20

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light
and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!

also see 1Samuel2:9,2Samuel22:29, Job29:3, Psalm112:4, Isaiah42:6 and many many others.
Hope this helps.

in
Christ
Brother Travis

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Well to be honest friend I don't know, I also don't see where it mentions that there is another light? Care to expound a little more?

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory ....

2 Corinthians 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Habakkuk 2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

2 Corinthians 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

1 Corinthians 1:30 "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption.."

Colossians 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

Ephesians 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

 

[homwardbound]

Brother, know you not that we are going to be Judged by our Works?

Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY Him;

Titus 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Why? What will happen if they do NOT maintain good works? Do a study on that through Scriptures.

Galations 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

I Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

What if they do not keep their souls to Him in well doing? Do a study in the Bible to find that out.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

By their WHAT? their Works did it say. Strange, if we are Saved by Grace (Always) why are we judged by our Works.

Please i beg you read the article Faith, Works, or Both to see many Scriptural references to how the Scriptures teach Faith and Works go hand in hand. They work together, not one without the other.

Works will never Save someone, EVER, But once a person is Truly Saved, they will have the WORKS. The works is proof who is in them. You can tell who has Christ in them, by the Love they have one for another, by their works that they do because they love one another. You will know them by their works.

^i^

The discernment is between flesh the Spirit of God all flesh works will burn up and one will suffer loss, all God works in and of the Spirit of God will survive and recieve reward as God sees fit period, and finally we ourselves go through the fire and suffer loss or salvation to whether one really beleived or not. That simple not Rocket science God has had Mercy on us and it is up to us to believe this or not and by this we love all as he has already shown us all through his Cross, saved by the resurrection cleansed by the death first so we can recieve new life in the Spirit of God by hte resurrection. We ahd to be clesnsed first before the new life could take place so Christ died once
Hebrews 7:27who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.
Hebrews 9:12Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.
Hebrews 10:10By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.