I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.,
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“ ‘But Pastor Prince, how can I differentiate between the Holy Spirit convicting me of sin and the accuser hurling condemnation at me?’…The bottom line is that the Holy Spirit never convicts you [a believer] of your sins…I challenge you to find a scripture in the Bible that tells you that the Holy Spirit has come to convict you of your sins. You won’t find any! The body of Christ is living in defeat because many believers don’t understand that the Holy Spirit is actually in them to convict them of their righteousness in Christ. Even when you fail…”
Chapter 11, pages 134-135
Some people have an evangelical anaphylaxis event in their minds when they hear that the Holy Spirit does not "convict" the believer of sins because we have been taught differently.
The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces the believer of the righteousness that is in us which indirectly points to the "works of the flesh" that we need to repent of ( change our minds on how we view them ).
For example things like malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.
His life that is in us because of righteousness causes the works of the flesh to drop off us as we "become" who we really are in Christ in our new man - the new creation. This is "walking by the spirit" which will stop the flesh from fulfilling "it's" desires.
The word " convict/reprove/convince/expose" in question has many meanings attached to it as well.
It is only used 1 time in KJV as "convict"....it is used more often with the word " to reprove/rebuke/convince/expose" The word needs to be looked at in the "context" that it is used.
It is a revealing of things.....to the world the Holy Spirit reveals/convinces/expose their sin of unbelief in Jesus..
To the believer He reveals/convinces/expose that they are the righteousness of Christ because He went to the Father to stand as an Advocate.
John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world ( unbelievers ) concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they ( unbelievers ) do not believe in Me;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you ( believers ) no longer see Me;
1 John 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Here are a few examples of the same exact word used in scripture...as one can clearly see....this word has many uses depending on the context.
1 Corinthians 14:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
Titus 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Matthew 18:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
John 8:46 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
So, we can clearly seen the Greek word translated once in the KJV as "convict" really means to expose, reveal, convince people of something.
The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces the believer of the righteousness that is in us which indirectly points to the "works of the flesh" that we need to repent of ( change our minds on how we view them ).
For example things like malice and the slandering of others in the body of Christ.
His life that is in us because of righteousness causes the works of the flesh to drop off us as we "become" who we really are in Christ in our new man - the new creation. This is "walking by the spirit" which will stop the flesh from fulfilling "it's" desires.
The word " convict/reprove/convince/expose" in question has many meanings attached to it as well.
It is only used 1 time in KJV as "convict"....it is used more often with the word " to reprove/rebuke/convince/expose" The word needs to be looked at in the "context" that it is used.
It is a revealing of things.....to the world the Holy Spirit reveals/convinces/expose their sin of unbelief in Jesus..
To the believer He reveals/convinces/expose that they are the righteousness of Christ because He went to the Father to stand as an Advocate.
John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world ( unbelievers ) concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they ( unbelievers ) do not believe in Me;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you ( believers ) no longer see Me;
1 John 2:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
Here are a few examples of the same exact word used in scripture...as one can clearly see....this word has many uses depending on the context.
1 Corinthians 14:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
Titus 1:9 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.
Matthew 18:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
John 8:46 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP] Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
So, we can clearly seen the Greek word translated once in the KJV as "convict" really means to expose, reveal, convince people of something.
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E
in post number 48, She was explaining what she meant to a postor here By pointing to another thread where she asked questions. If you think that is bashing I don't know how or why.. .
to me, There was nothing bashing about that post. Nothing NEAR what Stephen is doing here
So why are you not being as hard on Stephen as you are on seven? I take it from your silence, you think what he is doing is ok, even though what he is doing has NOTHING to do with the what the OP said..
to me, There was nothing bashing about that post. Nothing NEAR what Stephen is doing here
So why are you not being as hard on Stephen as you are on seven? I take it from your silence, you think what he is doing is ok, even though what he is doing has NOTHING to do with the what the OP said..
John 16: 5“But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6“But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7“But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; 9concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
Isn't it something that one person says "the world" is sinners, then another says the "convicting of righteousness" part is for the christian, when actually "the world" here means all mankind? BOTH?
Nice try, though.
Isn't it something that one person says "the world" is sinners, then another says the "convicting of righteousness" part is for the christian, when actually "the world" here means all mankind? BOTH?
Nice try, though.
“If the Holy Spirit never convicts you the believer of your sins, then what does He convict you of? Jesus says that the Holy Spirit convicts you “of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more”. Now who is Jesus talking about here? Believers or unbelievers? Clearly, with the use of the second person pronoun “you”, Jesus was referring to believers. The Holy Spirit was sent to convict believers of righteousness.”
Chapter 11, page 137
NOTE: Jesus is talking about believers AND unbelievers, as explained in the previous point. The use of the second person pronoun “you” simply means “you the audience” are included in “the world” to whom the Holy Spirit convicts.
The Holy Spirit convicts both believers and unbelievers of sin (wrong-doing based in unbelief) and righteousness (right doing, right living, the vanity of man’s righteousness apart from God, Christ our Righteousness, etc.) Jesus did not change audiences mid-sentence.
I mean, can I believe this. Let me think about this, and I am sorry if this sounds extreme,
but a christian gets angry and murders someone.
Now the Lord is not going to convict, show this person they have sinned?
I truth I would seek them out if I knew them and find out where they were and if I could
help. If they were unrepentant I would try and work through how this could come about.
Now to suggest the Holy God would just ignore this situation and act as if nothing had
happened is absurd, totally absurd. But guilty consciences always want an out.
but a christian gets angry and murders someone.
Now the Lord is not going to convict, show this person they have sinned?
I truth I would seek them out if I knew them and find out where they were and if I could
help. If they were unrepentant I would try and work through how this could come about.
Now to suggest the Holy God would just ignore this situation and act as if nothing had
happened is absurd, totally absurd. But guilty consciences always want an out.
Believers are not of the world. The "they" in verse 9 is the world. Jesus is then talking to the believers would be in Christ after the cross and resurrection which is the "you" in verse 10. Two different groups of people.
The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces/exposes the world's unbelief in Christ just like Jesus said in verse 9.
John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces/exposes the believer that they are the righteousness of God in Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces/exposes the world's unbelief in Christ just like Jesus said in verse 9.
John 16:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me;
The Holy Spirit convicts/convinces/exposes the believer that they are the righteousness of God in Christ.
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
[FONT="]
“Let me give you a practical tip on how you can grow in this revelation of ‘no condemnation’: Learn to see the Ten Commandments (the law of God) and condemnation as the same thing. Whenever you read or think about the law, think ‘condemnation.’”[/FONT]
[FONT="]Chapter 12, page 151[/FONT]
When we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can just go out and sin because of grace?" - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the grace of God. Then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.
The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by.
Which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace. The reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us.
The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7.
The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by.
Which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace. The reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us.
The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7.
The 10 commandments were called the ministry of condemnation and of death by Paul. We can trust the life of Christ in us to live godly in this world.
The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12
The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.
The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness." This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.
2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".
It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.
Awake to righteousness and sin not. Awake means to "come to your true self, to sober up". Awake to who you are in Christ and we will manifest outwardly in our behavior who we are in our inner man of the new creation created in righteousness and holiness.
The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12
The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.
The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness." This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.
2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".
It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.
Awake to righteousness and sin not. Awake means to "come to your true self, to sober up". Awake to who you are in Christ and we will manifest outwardly in our behavior who we are in our inner man of the new creation created in righteousness and holiness.
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B
Indeed brother, there's a difference between conviction and condemned. Some think Jesus was sweet and nice all the time, he was mostly but at other times he gave a ear full to his disciples and others as well He made them think about it. They didn't become instinct believers first time out of the gate even after miracles they still struggled with it from time to time.
There are many Bible questions that come up in our lives as believers. Thousands! For instance I believe Jesus is coming for His bride the church before the tribulation. This event is commonly known as the rapture. I have studied this out and am thoroughly convinced from the Bible and the witness of the Holy Spirit in my heart.
I'm comforted and encouraged just as 1 Thess.4:18 has admonished me to be and to also encourage others about the coming of the Lord. "Therefore comfort and encourage one another with these words."
How far should I go to try and encourage other believers here on CC about this? Should I start a thread and try to engage believers to discuss this? I could and that would be interesting but personally I'm not wanting to do that. I'm much more interested in discussing the reasons why Jesus came and died for us and why there is no more judgement or condemnation.
Romans 8:1 says [h=1]Romans 8:1American Standard Version (ASV)[/h] 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
And because the American Standard Version is the best translated for this particular verse, I use that instead of the Amplified which I enjoy and use more on a regular basis. But the Amplified adds on a qualifier so I prefer to post the NAS for this verse. 8 Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live [and] walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after the dictates of the Spirit.
There are many twists and turns when comparing scripture with scripture and it takes time and effort and a willingness to stay with the topic at hand. Trying to do this on the CC Bible study forums is a challenge. So when someone wants to side track a thread and discuss the how and why of what different people think so we can look at a person and our opinions about that person or persons and not the Bible content it side tracks the discussion.
Yet, I'm aware about this when it comes to using the Destined To Reign devotional. I've been criticized for using this devotional of Pastor Prince's because people don't like him. Personally I think Christians need to grow up in this matter. Not just with Pastor Prince but many other people we may meet in our lives that don't happen to agree with us 100%.
As Grace777.,EG, and others here have posted., they don't agree with any preacher or teacher 100%. And that is how we should and must be when it comes to truth and people. Only Jesus/God and His Word is perfect and we each have to be thoroughly convinced in our own minds about our faith. Able to stand on our faith in Christ and our own Biblical convictions regardless of other people's opinions.
But some Christians actually can't discuss issues and topics with other believers who don't see it the same as them. Even to the degree of finding a character flaw or sin with the person they disagree with. As if that can give their convictions or argument about a topic more importance.
Have you noticed people in the world do this all the time? Look at the political situation here in America and how the liberal media can't stand President Trump. They have attacked his life and family looking (and finding) many flaws.
We believers can't do that. Stand on the truth and not the mistakes and sins of very fallible man because if we are looking for a flaw, we sure will find it. Using Pastor Prince for this here on CC is imo maybe an added bonus to my original reasons for using this devotional. I like the topics he brings up for encouragement and how they spark conversation and discussion in the positive. Many people are in dire need of encouraged by the sharing of love of God in Christ in the Bible and discussion here.
People need to know they are loved by God in Christ and He was condemned already for us. He took our place on the cross. Many believers like me never received the gift of no condemnation even though I was a born again believer since 1982. There is a need to talk about the love of God in Christ and how His unconditional love is ours in Christ.
So folks, stay on this thread or leave it's your choice. But grow up and let's not bite and devour one another because of a desire to win an argument.
I'm comforted and encouraged just as 1 Thess.4:18 has admonished me to be and to also encourage others about the coming of the Lord. "Therefore comfort and encourage one another with these words."
How far should I go to try and encourage other believers here on CC about this? Should I start a thread and try to engage believers to discuss this? I could and that would be interesting but personally I'm not wanting to do that. I'm much more interested in discussing the reasons why Jesus came and died for us and why there is no more judgement or condemnation.
Romans 8:1 says [h=1]Romans 8:1American Standard Version (ASV)[/h] 8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus.
And because the American Standard Version is the best translated for this particular verse, I use that instead of the Amplified which I enjoy and use more on a regular basis. But the Amplified adds on a qualifier so I prefer to post the NAS for this verse. 8 Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live [and] walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after the dictates of the Spirit.
There are many twists and turns when comparing scripture with scripture and it takes time and effort and a willingness to stay with the topic at hand. Trying to do this on the CC Bible study forums is a challenge. So when someone wants to side track a thread and discuss the how and why of what different people think so we can look at a person and our opinions about that person or persons and not the Bible content it side tracks the discussion.
Yet, I'm aware about this when it comes to using the Destined To Reign devotional. I've been criticized for using this devotional of Pastor Prince's because people don't like him. Personally I think Christians need to grow up in this matter. Not just with Pastor Prince but many other people we may meet in our lives that don't happen to agree with us 100%.
As Grace777.,EG, and others here have posted., they don't agree with any preacher or teacher 100%. And that is how we should and must be when it comes to truth and people. Only Jesus/God and His Word is perfect and we each have to be thoroughly convinced in our own minds about our faith. Able to stand on our faith in Christ and our own Biblical convictions regardless of other people's opinions.
But some Christians actually can't discuss issues and topics with other believers who don't see it the same as them. Even to the degree of finding a character flaw or sin with the person they disagree with. As if that can give their convictions or argument about a topic more importance.
Have you noticed people in the world do this all the time? Look at the political situation here in America and how the liberal media can't stand President Trump. They have attacked his life and family looking (and finding) many flaws.
We believers can't do that. Stand on the truth and not the mistakes and sins of very fallible man because if we are looking for a flaw, we sure will find it. Using Pastor Prince for this here on CC is imo maybe an added bonus to my original reasons for using this devotional. I like the topics he brings up for encouragement and how they spark conversation and discussion in the positive. Many people are in dire need of encouraged by the sharing of love of God in Christ in the Bible and discussion here.
People need to know they are loved by God in Christ and He was condemned already for us. He took our place on the cross. Many believers like me never received the gift of no condemnation even though I was a born again believer since 1982. There is a need to talk about the love of God in Christ and how His unconditional love is ours in Christ.
So folks, stay on this thread or leave it's your choice. But grow up and let's not bite and devour one another because of a desire to win an argument.
S
I have have spent some time finding out about that book
I have listened to a number of interviews with the author, so I have heard what he has to say about the book he wrote
he says that God is spirit so he can be shown as female in the book. I'm like are you just kidding me? There are about 170 references in scripture to God as 'father', the new testament contains over 900 verses where the word 'theos' is used when referring to God and that is a masculine noun (Greek). He also sent His SON into the world, not His daughter. All 3 of the Godhead are revealed as masculine.
There is some serious error in that book but people are eating it up when all it does is appeal to emotions and how much God loves us all. In fact, in the book, the god of the author states that God does not punish people for their sins because sin is it's own punishment.
it's a work of fiction and so is the god of the book and therein is the danger for the many people who do not study the book God has actually given us from which to understand what He has actually revealed of Himself
To be sure, sin IS it's own punishment but is that what the Bible states? Guess the entire old testament is a fantasy and we can just tuck a copy of Rob Bell's book under our arm in place of our Bible because God 'understands' us and everyone goes to heaven? Rob Bell wrote a different book, but possibly more controversial when it came out and I am willing to bet that people can be found in this forum who think Rob is right.
There is plenty more that is absurd about this book, but I guess it suits some people fine
sorry for the derailment joanie
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