about once saved always saved or not etc.
I'm just genuinely curious why people would bring up this subject.
So what do you think - any suggestions.
Bible versions may be the cause for some of the contentions on both sides of OSAS. If not that, misapplication of scripture at the expense of ignoring other scriptures usually fuels both sides of the debate.
Many believers do not understand that OSAS is true as Jesus will lose none of all the Father has given Him ( John 6:39 ) but not every saint will be found abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes and that is where God is judging His House at the pre trib rapture event where He receives the vessel unto honor to the Marriage Supper, and castaways those not abiding in Him into the bed of the great tribulation to receive later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House.
So those that oppose OSAS are confusing the consequences for not abiding in Him as His disciples for loss of salvation. They think professing believers that fall away from the faith or fall away into living in sin were never saved because of the consequences sounding so severe.
Example... in 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter... Paul speaks of the falling away as I apply that to mean the falling away from the faith as he did mentioned that in 1 Timothy 4:1-2 ....
2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,[SUP] 2 [/SUP]That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.[SUP]3 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, ...............
1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;[SUP] 2 [/SUP]Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Continuing on back in 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter...Paul goes back and forth for 2 events that He will deal with.. the first being the House of God which He will judge at the pre trib rapture event, before dealing with the son of perdition when He comes back as the King of kings.. but I digress... anyway...this is addressing the current state of the tribulation we are living in as Paul pointed out how that iniquity which is the cause of the falling away from the faith in droves in the latter days was already at work in his days.....
2 Thessalonians 2:[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Apply that as new age mentality... saved believers opening themselves up to receive spirits which is not the Holy Spirit, separate from salvation... as we read on...
2 Thessalonians 2:[SUP]9 [/SUP]Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,[SUP] 10 [/SUP]And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.[SUP] 11 [/SUP]And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:[SUP]12 [/SUP]That they all might
be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
So out of context, an errant believer would think that believers can lose their salvation for falling away from the faith as they will be damned..... not so. Because the damnation spoken of by Paul is referring to being damned as a vessel unto dishonor in His House for not departing from iniquity. Do remember John 6:39 for why there will be vessels unto dishonor in His House.
John 6:[SUP]39 [/SUP]And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. Paul is pointing out another iniquity below in how some can err from the truth and have their faith overthrown...
2 Timothy 2:[SUP]18 [/SUP]Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.[SUP] 19 [/SUP]Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.[SUP] 20 [/SUP]But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.[SUP]21 [/SUP]If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
So the vessels unto honor in His House are those that look to Him for help to depart from iniquity and keep them from it whereas those that did not, will be judged at the pre trib rapture event to be damned as vessels unto dishonor to be left behind and received later on after the great tribulation.
Anyway... getting back to 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter as Paul reminds the believers of this tradition to reprove those saved believers that thinks they can receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign.
2 Thessalonians 2:[SUP]13 [/SUP]But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because
God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
That is Paul telling every saved believer today that there is no receiving the Holy Spirit apart from our salvation as this promise was received at the calling of the gospel and no other calling is given... that means seeking to receive another baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues is another calling and thus not of Him and the iniquity that is at work as it was back in Paul's days, but happening now in droves and across the denomenations as there are Charismatic Catholics..
Paul goes on to the 3rd chapter to testify that saved believer be delivered from these wicked, unreasonable men that have not faith....that follow NOT after the traditions taught of us and are disorderly as all movements of the "Spirit" are like Toronto's Blessings, the Pensacola Outpouring, the "holy laughter" movement and even the another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues where they fall down in confusion which God is not the author of.
Paul states that we are commanded by the Lord as touching us to help us to do this... to withdraw from fellowship with those whom have fallen away from the faith that refuse to repent of this other calling and that tongue without interpretation which they assume is a prayer language of the Holy Spirit when John 16:13 in ALL BIBLES testify that the Holy Spirit CANNOT speak for Himself but can only speak what He hears....therefore the real God's gift of tongues IS for speaking unto the people ( 1 Corinthians 14:21 ) that has to come with interpretation and not used for anything else by the Holy Spirit other than that, and certainly not serve as a sign to already saved believers in having proof that they have received the Holy Spirit apart from salvation after a sign of tongues or any other sign of confusion like falling down or barking like a dog or render mute in mid-sentence or whatever.
But Paul clarified that the commandment to withdraw from those that have fallena way from the faith and refuse to depart from that iniquity as well as that tongue, that we do so not to treat them as the enemy, but to admonish them as brothers still.
So OSAS is still in effect as they are still brothers which is why they are called to depart from iniquity or risk being excommunicated from attending the Marriage Supper when the Bridegroom comes at the pre trib rapture event.
So as you can see, if believers take things out of context and not take the scripture in whole in discerning the truth in His words, they would take that one verse in 2 Thessalonians 2:12 as proof text that one can lose salvation when it is really about being damned as a vessel unto dishonor in His House.
They even misapply these verses below...
Galatians 5:[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, [SUP]20 [/SUP]Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, [SUP]21 [/SUP]Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and
such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
So they take that to mean loss of salvation when it is really about not being received as a vessel unto honor. Those received at the pre trib rapture has a place.. a home in the city of God.. they are liken unto angels that never die and thus no marrying nor given in marriage.... whereas...
The vessels unto dishonor will be placed all over the world in representing the city of God in serving the King of kings in raising up the generations coming out of the milleniel reign of Christ. Only the power of the second death will not be over those resurrected after the great tribulation and so they could still die the physical death... and are to be married to set the example as the Biblical bishops of the N.T. in managing their own house in managing the kingdom of heaven on earth, but after Satan's last rebellion, death and hades will be done away with into the lake of fire and they will live for ever then.
Anyway, what a saved believer sows towards.. the works of the flesh or the fruits of the Spirit by faith in Jesus Christ will be judged as that is what is being built on that foundation. The foundation remains if all a saved believer has done is sown to the works of the flesh in reaping corruption in defling the temple of God for which God will destroy with physical death, but as the prodigal son that gave up his first inheritance for wild living and can never get it back, but yet he is still son which is why OSAS is true as that prodigal son is received as a vessel unto dishonor in His House.
OSAS is debated because believers do not understand that discipleship is separate from salvation as they misapply verses out of context at the expense of the rest of the truth in scripture. There are dire consequences for saved believers to be living in sin which is why having His seal, they are called to depart from inqiuity or else, but that or else is not about losing salvation AND it is more than losing the rewards of crowns, but becoming a castaway by which they are damned to be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House for He shall lose nothing of all the Father has given Him.
.
)
