-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Honest I'm genuinely curious as to why this subject is brought up so much, it
seems a moot point. We can only speculate about ourselves and God is the only one
who knows the true heart of another person.
Pretty simple. Both sides of the argument are concerned about false teachings. Both sides believe the other side is grossly misleading people, and engaging in a dangerous theology which could lead to the demise of others.
What I can say is, there is one sure fire way to find out which side is correct! But no one seems to be in a hurry to really find out the Truth.
seems a moot point. We can only speculate about ourselves and God is the only one
who knows the true heart of another person.
Pretty simple. Both sides of the argument are concerned about false teachings. Both sides believe the other side is grossly misleading people, and engaging in a dangerous theology which could lead to the demise of others.
What I can say is, there is one sure fire way to find out which side is correct! But no one seems to be in a hurry to really find out the Truth.
People who have found the truth are shouted down by the majority who claim to already have it. It is a form of brainwashing no matter how often the truth is presented they appear to be hard wired into believing one set of false doctrines. I have decided to give up trying. There is only so many times ones head can meet a brick wall.
it's really very simple: there are those who have not received the True Calling and have been
deceived that they have and believe that they can continue in their old, carnal ways without
having to 'pay' any price - and then there are those who have truly been, chosen, called, elected,
and been given the Grace of God to desire and actually change their 'old-ways' and obey their Saviour...
deceived that they have and believe that they can continue in their old, carnal ways without
having to 'pay' any price - and then there are those who have truly been, chosen, called, elected,
and been given the Grace of God to desire and actually change their 'old-ways' and obey their Saviour...
I also have to object strongly to the bolded part. I believe in eternal security, based on the saving work of God, nothing I have done. But I also believe in my need to cooperate with God in sanctification, including repentance, discipleship, and obedience to the Word!
I dont think anyone in this forum has stood more firmly against hypergrace and Word Faith than me. I even started a thread in WHY Word Faith is heresy last year, that went on for 100's of pages with me posting the Bible, and Isa. 53:5d coming back at me in every opposing post. Me showing why it is out of context, Isa53:5d coming back, ad infinitum! Such a poverty of truth in WOF.
Once I realized the evil of hypergrace, I also took a stand, and was bashed relentlessly by my former "friends" who were pushing this evil doctrine. I have never regretted doing that, and I am grateful for the mostly Arminians, at that time, who exposed the hypergrace lie. And I posted publicly to that effect. Although I still do not believe someone saved by the power of God can lose their salvation, given by God. Again, that is a debate that could use a whole thread.
As for easy believism, I certainly cannot agree with it, as God is the one who gives us faith and saves us, how could a sinner's prayer save someone who has not heard the whole gospel, which has repentance as its foundation? I usually call easy believism a "get out of hell free" card, which someone gets when they mouth a prayer, then put the card in their back pocket and never look at it again, thinking they are safe from hell, when they are in dire peril!
Stop throwing stones Stephen, at people who disagree with you on soteriology, who agree with you totally on the issues you have listed above.
If you want to bash me and others for soteriology, go ahead! But you are dead wrong when you say that I, and many others do not stand vehemently against the lies listed above. My heart's passion is to expose these heresies. How dare you imply I do not!
about once saved always saved or not etc.
I'm just genuinely curious why people would bring up this subject.
If a person is saved and then feel like they are still guilty or keep falling into
sinful ways. (Which by the way is all of us!) Wouldn't it be better to ask for
prayer, to encourage each other, to seek God with all your heart, to make sure
you are saved if you are not certain etc. Draw close to Him and He will draw close to
you.
And...if you are certain you are saved and know you are right before God,
then why would this subject matter bother you.
Honest I'm genuinely curious as to why this subject is brought up so much, it
seems a moot point. We can only speculate about ourselves and God is the only one
who knows the true heart of another person.
It seems to me there is a real need for us all to be certain and there is a real issue of
struggling with sin.
Maybe we can all disgard this OSAS subject matter and instead pray, edifying, encourage,
exhort each other to draw close to Jesus and walk with Him.
For the record I suppose my failings are pride, thinking I don't need anyone else's help and
that can extend to God as well, worry instead of casting cares on the Lord. Getting impatient,
moody at times (well I am a woman lol). Filling those gaps with things instead of God.
So maybe you could pray for me.
Anyone else feel free to add your failings (otherwise I will feel like I'm the only one.)
and maybe instead of pointless OSAS debates, we can actually help each other out.
So what do you think - any suggestions.
I'm just genuinely curious why people would bring up this subject.
If a person is saved and then feel like they are still guilty or keep falling into
sinful ways. (Which by the way is all of us!) Wouldn't it be better to ask for
prayer, to encourage each other, to seek God with all your heart, to make sure
you are saved if you are not certain etc. Draw close to Him and He will draw close to
you.
And...if you are certain you are saved and know you are right before God,
then why would this subject matter bother you.
Honest I'm genuinely curious as to why this subject is brought up so much, it
seems a moot point. We can only speculate about ourselves and God is the only one
who knows the true heart of another person.
It seems to me there is a real need for us all to be certain and there is a real issue of
struggling with sin.
Maybe we can all disgard this OSAS subject matter and instead pray, edifying, encourage,
exhort each other to draw close to Jesus and walk with Him.
For the record I suppose my failings are pride, thinking I don't need anyone else's help and
that can extend to God as well, worry instead of casting cares on the Lord. Getting impatient,
moody at times (well I am a woman lol). Filling those gaps with things instead of God.
So maybe you could pray for me.
Anyone else feel free to add your failings (otherwise I will feel like I'm the only one.
)and maybe instead of pointless OSAS debates, we can actually help each other out.
So what do you think - any suggestions.
Yet, many are confident in their understanding of God's nature(based on their understanding of Scripture) and find either Calvinism or Arminianism distasteful/offensive(to put it mildly).
I have my own opinion on the matter, but rarely comment much in OSAS debate threads except to comment something along the line of "Is this the thread where the hundreds-of-years-old debate between Calvinism and Armenianism will be ended and settled?"
about once saved always saved or not etc. I'm just genuinely curious why people would bring up this subject. If a person is saved and then feel like they are still guilty or keep falling into sinful ways. (Which by the way is all of us!) Wouldn't it be better to ask for prayer, to encourage each other, to seek God with all your heart, to make sure you are saved if you are not certain etc. Draw close to Him and He will draw close to you. And...if you are certain you are saved and know you are right before God, then why would this subject matter bother you. Honest I'm genuinely curious as to why this subject is brought up so much, it seems a moot point. We can only speculate about ourselves and God is the only one who knows the true heart of another person. It seems to me there is a real need for us all to be certain and there is a real issue of struggling with sin. Maybe we can all disgard this OSAS subject matter and instead pray, edifying, encourage, exhort each other to draw close to Jesus and walk with Him.For the record I suppose my failings are pride, thinking I don't need anyone else's help and that can extend to God as well, worry instead of casting cares on the Lord. Getting impatient, moody at times (well I am a woman lol). Filling those gaps with things instead of God. So maybe you could pray for me.Anyone else feel free to add your failings (otherwise I will feel like I'm the only one. )and maybe instead of pointless OSAS debates, we can actually help each other out.So what do you think - any suggestions.
)and maybe instead of pointless OSAS debates, we can actually help each other out.So what do you think - any suggestions.
If you look at the leaders in the church, you'll see one pastor or teacher debating another about the various aspects of the gospel. They are contending for the faith once delivered to the saints. And the rest of us as we are equipped and trained, do the same. We're contending for the faith. Some don't know how to argue fairly. Some use brass knuckles hidden within their boxing gloves.
How many times are we warned that false teachers would come in among the flock and not spare it. Ravenous wolves they are. Scriptures say that they aren't an outside entity attacking in, but they're false brothers that come in as angels of light inside the church for the purpose of attacking the true Gospel of grace inside the church. So I don't think that any of us should be surprised when the arguments begin. Repulsed yes!
Also contending is part of sharing the gospel. And when you or I or anyone else believe the gospel is being delivered is error aren't we going to speak up. Especially if this false gospel could cause one to walk away from the Lord instead of towards Him.
Look at Paul when he contended for the faith in Galatia. Why did he? Because the Galatians were leaving the Gospel of grace for a gospel of works......circumcision. Paul told them that if they believed these secret heresies that were creeping in among them that Christ would be of no value to them. He was concerned for their eternal destiny. And that's what one does who has the heart of a shepherd. He draws the sheep back into the sheep pen so that the wolves won't/can't attack and kill them.
I think another reason people argue over OSAS is because it's not even a biblical term. The correct understanding from scripture would either be perseverance of the saints or assurance of salvation. It's easier to fight over a non-biblical term. But if one uses the biblical terms/words/teachings you can refute what others are saying with scripture. [ Thanks Preacher4Truth!!!
]I think another reason is because it's important to understand the basic truths of the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached everywhere He went and He told the apostles to teach all that He commanded us. We need to know what it means to be saved so that we can share truth and not one's ideas. Some on here talk about new revelations and want to teach those things as truth. We were given the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God for a reason.
And some just like to argue. No getting around that. It would be nice if they could at least do it while producing the fruit of the Spirit. I don't like the name calling, the belittling that goes on, the back biting, telling someone they're a heretic or not saved, etc. It's the flesh oozing out.....and it stinks.
But there are some who truly care that others might be hearing a false teacher or a false teaching and they might share scriptures to refute the error. When the one in error doesn't back down and humble themselves and say, yeah, I was wrong on that, the volley of arguments will continue.
The one thing that I don't like also is the judging that goes on. How can we judge a person's heart. We were told not to by Paul. He said don't judge one before the time.
Another thing is that we're told to prove all things, and hold fast to that which is good. So words that brothers/sisters speak and actions that they take are to be judged. But not the person's heart.
And then, this is a forum. It's the nature of a forum to argue. When I visit some of the other threads that aren't BDF, I see arguing in there too. Someone needs advice and a responding member posts their opinion and then another does, but it's something different. The first member then gets in an argument with 2nd member and then the battle ensues. I'm learning It's the nature of the beast.
But what can each one of us here learn from all of this? Respond in love. Respond because you care. Respond because you're protecting the sheep, etc. Put off the old man, they old way we use to respond and put on the new man where the Spirit of God dwells.......where the fruit of the Spirit comes forth because we're walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh.
I would suggest people go to the threads on the subject of this term which has been banned which some continue to bring up because either they mis-represent what is being said or deceitfully continue to mis-represent things even after being shown the truth of what is believed.
Those that don't believe in healing in the sense that our Father wants us well as seen in the life of Jesus who came to do the will of the Father - they will be vehemently against the grace message of Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.
Others don't believe that all our sins are forgiven in Christ so "in order" to continue to receive the forgiveness of sins - we must confess them or be away from God.
Those that believe in the grace of God in Christ's work say that because we are forgiven we confess all sins in our prayer time with the Lord - but not to be forgiven but to talk with Him about how we believe in His work for us on the cross and to find the grace needed to walk free of that sin and bring glory to Him and to be a blessing to others.
People can agree to dis-agree to in some areas without the calling of names and things like "that is a heresy" just because they don't agree on a non-essential area - but all true believers in Christ agree that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ and His blood is what has redeemed us.
For anyone that is interested in this subject because it is banned from CC because of the extremely bad behavior of some people - ( which you will see this bad behavior in these threads - in some places the mods cleaned up a lot of stuff too by their "editing" skills )
This are old threads where both parties give their views on it. Read at your leisure and come to your own thoughts on it but read all the posts first so you don't get a distorted or bias view on what is really being said.
And people can agree to dis-agree too.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129882-common-misconceptions-hyper-grace.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...rn-oegrace-messagea-revolution-rebellion.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-forgiveness-rebuilding-veil-jesus-broke.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/139276-jude-has-best-title-hyper-grace.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/139334-lets-take-deeper-look-hyper-stuff.html
Let each one ask the Lord Himself about these things and then walk that out with Him. He will be faithful to all of us.
Those that don't believe in healing in the sense that our Father wants us well as seen in the life of Jesus who came to do the will of the Father - they will be vehemently against the grace message of Christ's finished work on the cross and resurrection.
Others don't believe that all our sins are forgiven in Christ so "in order" to continue to receive the forgiveness of sins - we must confess them or be away from God.
Those that believe in the grace of God in Christ's work say that because we are forgiven we confess all sins in our prayer time with the Lord - but not to be forgiven but to talk with Him about how we believe in His work for us on the cross and to find the grace needed to walk free of that sin and bring glory to Him and to be a blessing to others.
People can agree to dis-agree to in some areas without the calling of names and things like "that is a heresy" just because they don't agree on a non-essential area - but all true believers in Christ agree that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ and His blood is what has redeemed us.
For anyone that is interested in this subject because it is banned from CC because of the extremely bad behavior of some people - ( which you will see this bad behavior in these threads - in some places the mods cleaned up a lot of stuff too by their "editing" skills )
This are old threads where both parties give their views on it. Read at your leisure and come to your own thoughts on it but read all the posts first so you don't get a distorted or bias view on what is really being said.
And people can agree to dis-agree too.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/129882-common-misconceptions-hyper-grace.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...rn-oegrace-messagea-revolution-rebellion.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-forgiveness-rebuilding-veil-jesus-broke.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/139276-jude-has-best-title-hyper-grace.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/139334-lets-take-deeper-look-hyper-stuff.html
Let each one ask the Lord Himself about these things and then walk that out with Him. He will be faithful to all of us.
And yet when their false doctrine is corrected by the Word of God they refuse to relent or repent. It shows that we are in a spiritual battle with darkness constantly trying to overcome light.
Also the complete doctrine of salvation is seldom taught systematically from the Word to new believers so that they fully understand the meaning of justification, sanctification, and glorification. Salvation is multi-faceted but the essential core of salvation is quite simple (John 11:25,26):
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Also the complete doctrine of salvation is seldom taught systematically from the Word to new believers so that they fully understand the meaning of justification, sanctification, and glorification. Salvation is multi-faceted but the essential core of salvation is quite simple (John 11:25,26):
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Last edited:
about once saved always saved or not etc.
I'm just genuinely curious why people would bring up this subject.
If a person is saved and then feel like they are still guilty or keep falling into
sinful ways. (Which by the way is all of us!) Wouldn't it be better to ask for
prayer, to encourage each other, to seek God with all your heart, to make sure
you are saved if you are not certain etc. Draw close to Him and He will draw close to
you.
And...if you are certain you are saved and know you are right before God,
then why would this subject matter bother you.
Honest I'm genuinely curious as to why this subject is brought up so much, it
seems a moot point. We can only speculate about ourselves and God is the only one
who knows the true heart of another person.
It seems to me there is a real need for us all to be certain and there is a real issue of
struggling with sin.
Maybe we can all disgard this OSAS subject matter and instead pray, edifying, encourage,
exhort each other to draw close to Jesus and walk with Him.
For the record I suppose my failings are pride, thinking I don't need anyone else's help and
that can extend to God as well, worry instead of casting cares on the Lord. Getting impatient,
moody at times (well I am a woman lol). Filling those gaps with things instead of God.
So maybe you could pray for me.
Anyone else feel free to add your failings (otherwise I will feel like I'm the only one.)
and maybe instead of pointless OSAS debates, we can actually help each other out.
So what do you think - any suggestions.
I'm just genuinely curious why people would bring up this subject.
If a person is saved and then feel like they are still guilty or keep falling into
sinful ways. (Which by the way is all of us!) Wouldn't it be better to ask for
prayer, to encourage each other, to seek God with all your heart, to make sure
you are saved if you are not certain etc. Draw close to Him and He will draw close to
you.
And...if you are certain you are saved and know you are right before God,
then why would this subject matter bother you.
Honest I'm genuinely curious as to why this subject is brought up so much, it
seems a moot point. We can only speculate about ourselves and God is the only one
who knows the true heart of another person.
It seems to me there is a real need for us all to be certain and there is a real issue of
struggling with sin.
Maybe we can all disgard this OSAS subject matter and instead pray, edifying, encourage,
exhort each other to draw close to Jesus and walk with Him.
For the record I suppose my failings are pride, thinking I don't need anyone else's help and
that can extend to God as well, worry instead of casting cares on the Lord. Getting impatient,
moody at times (well I am a woman lol). Filling those gaps with things instead of God.
So maybe you could pray for me.
Anyone else feel free to add your failings (otherwise I will feel like I'm the only one.
)and maybe instead of pointless OSAS debates, we can actually help each other out.
So what do you think - any suggestions.
M
Hi Miri,
If you look at the leaders in the church, you'll see one pastor or teacher debating another about the various aspects of the gospel. They are contending for the faith once delivered to the saints. And the rest of us as we are equipped and trained, do the same. We're contending for the faith. Some don't know how to argue fairly. Some use brass knuckles hidden within their boxing gloves.
How many times are we warned that false teachers would come in among the flock and not spare it. Ravenous wolves they are. Scriptures say that they aren't an outside entity attacking in, but they're false brothers that come in as angels of light inside the church for the purpose of attacking the true Gospel of grace inside the church. So I don't think that any of us should be surprised when the arguments begin. Repulsed yes!
Also contending is part of sharing the gospel. And when you or I or anyone else believe the gospel is being delivered is error aren't we going to speak up. Especially if this false gospel could cause one to walk away from the Lord instead of towards Him.
Look at Paul when he contended for the faith in Galatia. Why did he? Because the Galatians were leaving the Gospel of grace for a gospel of works......circumcision. Paul told them that if they believed these secret heresies that were creeping in among them that Christ would be of no value to them. He was concerned for their eternal destiny. And that's what one does who has the heart of a shepherd. He draws the sheep back into the sheep pen so that the wolves won't/can't attack and kill them.
I think another reason people argue over OSAS is because it's not even a biblical term. The correct understanding from scripture would either be perseverance of the saints or assurance of salvation. It's easier to fight over a non-biblical term. But if one uses the biblical terms/words/teachings you can refute what others are saying with scripture. [ Thanks Preacher4Truth!!!
]I think another reason is because it's important to understand the basic truths of the Gospel of the Kingdom that Jesus preached everywhere He went and He told the apostles to teach all that He commanded us. We need to know what it means to be saved so that we can share truth and not one's ideas. Some on here talk about new revelations and want to teach those things as truth. We were given the sword of the Spirit which is the word of God for a reason.
And some just like to argue. No getting around that. It would be nice if they could at least do it while producing the fruit of the Spirit. I don't like the name calling, the belittling that goes on, the back biting, telling someone they're a heretic or not saved, etc. It's the flesh oozing out.....and it stinks.
But there are some who truly care that others might be hearing a false teacher or a false teaching and they might share scriptures to refute the error. When the one in error doesn't back down and humble themselves and say, yeah, I was wrong on that, the volley of arguments will continue.
The one thing that I don't like also is the judging that goes on. How can we judge a person's heart. We were told not to by Paul. He said don't judge one before the time.
Another thing is that we're told to prove all things, and hold fast to that which is good. So words that brothers/sisters speak and actions that they take are to be judged. But not the person's heart.
And then, this is a forum. It's the nature of a forum to argue. When I visit some of the other threads that aren't BDF, I see arguing in there too. Someone needs advice and a responding member posts their opinion and then another does, but it's something different. The first member then gets in an argument with 2nd member and then the battle ensues. I'm learning It's the nature of the beast.
But what can each one of us here learn from all of this? Respond in love. Respond because you care. Respond because you're protecting the sheep, etc. Put off the old man, they old way we use to respond and put on the new man where the Spirit of God dwells.......where the fruit of the Spirit comes forth because we're walking in the Spirit and not in the flesh.
The difficulty is that 80% maybe higher, don't respond like this. So all these threads do
is to cause contention, strife, bad feeling. Anyone visiting and reading would think
"well if they are Christians I don't want to be".
Maybe when such such topics are raised, we all need to rethink our responses.
Thank you for your common sense.
D
about once saved always saved or not etc.
I'm just genuinely curious why people would bring up this subject.
If a person is saved and then feel like they are still guilty or keep falling into
sinful ways. (Which by the way is all of us!) Wouldn't it be better to ask for
prayer, to encourage each other, to seek God with all your heart, to make sure
you are saved if you are not certain etc. Draw close to Him and He will draw close to
you.
And...if you are certain you are saved and know you are right before God,
then why would this subject matter bother you.
Honest I'm genuinely curious as to why this subject is brought up so much, it
seems a moot point. We can only speculate about ourselves and God is the only one
who knows the true heart of another person.
It seems to me there is a real need for us all to be certain and there is a real issue of
struggling with sin.
Maybe we can all disgard this OSAS subject matter and instead pray, edifying, encourage,
exhort each other to draw close to Jesus and walk with Him.
For the record I suppose my failings are pride, thinking I don't need anyone else's help and
that can extend to God as well, worry instead of casting cares on the Lord. Getting impatient,
moody at times (well I am a woman lol). Filling those gaps with things instead of God.
So maybe you could pray for me.
Anyone else feel free to add your failings (otherwise I will feel like I'm the only one.)
and maybe instead of pointless OSAS debates, we can actually help each other out.
So what do you think - any suggestions.
I'm just genuinely curious why people would bring up this subject.
If a person is saved and then feel like they are still guilty or keep falling into
sinful ways. (Which by the way is all of us!) Wouldn't it be better to ask for
prayer, to encourage each other, to seek God with all your heart, to make sure
you are saved if you are not certain etc. Draw close to Him and He will draw close to
you.
And...if you are certain you are saved and know you are right before God,
then why would this subject matter bother you.
Honest I'm genuinely curious as to why this subject is brought up so much, it
seems a moot point. We can only speculate about ourselves and God is the only one
who knows the true heart of another person.
It seems to me there is a real need for us all to be certain and there is a real issue of
struggling with sin.
Maybe we can all disgard this OSAS subject matter and instead pray, edifying, encourage,
exhort each other to draw close to Jesus and walk with Him.
For the record I suppose my failings are pride, thinking I don't need anyone else's help and
that can extend to God as well, worry instead of casting cares on the Lord. Getting impatient,
moody at times (well I am a woman lol). Filling those gaps with things instead of God.
So maybe you could pray for me.
Anyone else feel free to add your failings (otherwise I will feel like I'm the only one.
)and maybe instead of pointless OSAS debates, we can actually help each other out.
So what do you think - any suggestions.
And I really don't argue over OSAS too often. Feels a bit like arguing Eagles vs. Cowboys and someone brings up New England Patriots. They're a league until themselves. Almost like comparing the neighborhood kids (European) football to Manchester United.
BUT that said, there is a reason I get thrilled that once the Lord saves, he saves for good. It's something like getting tenured as a teacher in the US. Once a teacher gets tenure there is no need to worry in keeping the job forever. You do. The only way you can lose the job at that point is by doing something criminal that lands you in prison.
To finally realize that when God saves, it's a permanent condition -- something he did for us, not something we deserve -- there is freedom. There is relief. There is joy. There is unfettered consolation. It's too good not to pass it along to others in the same boat.
Spurgeon talked about it in his devotional for tonight.
"Everlasting consolation."
2 Thessalonians 2:16
"Consolation." There is music in the word: like David's harp, it charms away the evil spirit of melancholy. It was a distinguished honour to Barnabas to be called "the son of consolation"; nay, it is one of the illustrious names of a greater than Barnabas, for the Lord Jesus is "the consolation of Israel." "Everlasting consolation"--here is the cream of all, for the eternity of comfort is the crown and glory of it. What is this "everlasting consolation"? It includes a sense of pardoned sin. A Christian man has received in his heart the witness of the Spirit that his iniquities are put away like a cloud, and his transgressions like a thick cloud. If sin be pardoned, is not that an everlasting consolation? Next, the Lord gives his people an abiding sense of acceptance in Christ. The Christian knows that God looks upon him as standing in union with Jesus. Union to the risen Lord is a consolation of the most abiding order; it is, in fact, everlasting. Let sickness prostrate us, have we not seen hundreds of believers as happy in the weakness of disease as they would have been in the strength of hale and blooming health? Let death's arrows pierce us to the heart, our comfort dies not, for have not our ears full often heard the songs of saints as they have rejoiced because the living love of God was shed abroad in their hearts in dying moments? Yes, a sense of acceptance in the Beloved is an everlasting consolation. Moreover, the Christian has a conviction of his security. God has promised to save those who trust in Christ: the Christian does trust in Christ, and he believes that God will be as good as his word, and will save him. He feels that he is safe by virtue of his being bound up with the person and work of Jesus.
But, I do believe even if a believer never gets this on earth, God still gives it to him/her in eternity. So, really? No need to argue.
D
Hi Miri,
Yes there IS a point to it..... but they don't want you to know what that real point is.
You see, on the surface, OSAS (hypergrace, easy believeism, etc) have no tangible argument whatsoever. According to their own doctrine, once a person accepts Jesus, they're saved permanently, & nothing you do after that can change anything.
So that would mean all of us, regardless of our differences, are saved. Easy, right?
But..... they persist on declaring others that don't believe the way they do don't have Jesus. That's talking outta both sides of their mouth. That's hypocrisy, plain & simple.
Notice something else..... OSAS, hypergrace, easy believeism, & whatever else they come up with, NEVER argue amongst themselves about their doctrine.
NOT ONCE.
Why the double standard? Why don't they argue between themselves? They argue with everybody else!
The answer is black & white, literally. Good vs evil.
Spiritually, they are evil. And anyone righteous, baby or mature, is an enemy.
It's a smoke screen, a scam.
As long as you switch over to one of those beliefs, doesn't matter which, you will instantly be their friend.
The Pharisees of Jesus' day didn't care what you believed, as long as you sided with them & paid your tithes.
Yes, shutting off the kingdom of Heaven from their proselytes. Falling away. Creating apostates.
Miri, you must admit, when folks of multiple doctrines band together in unity against ONE group, & ONE GROUP ONLY, it must be evil.
Some folks think I'm some religious nut crying conspiracy.
The thing is, we're discovering that most conspiracy nuts have been right all along.
Yes there IS a point to it..... but they don't want you to know what that real point is.
You see, on the surface, OSAS (hypergrace, easy believeism, etc) have no tangible argument whatsoever. According to their own doctrine, once a person accepts Jesus, they're saved permanently, & nothing you do after that can change anything.
So that would mean all of us, regardless of our differences, are saved. Easy, right?
But..... they persist on declaring others that don't believe the way they do don't have Jesus. That's talking outta both sides of their mouth. That's hypocrisy, plain & simple.
Notice something else..... OSAS, hypergrace, easy believeism, & whatever else they come up with, NEVER argue amongst themselves about their doctrine.
NOT ONCE.
Why the double standard? Why don't they argue between themselves? They argue with everybody else!
The answer is black & white, literally. Good vs evil.
Spiritually, they are evil. And anyone righteous, baby or mature, is an enemy.
It's a smoke screen, a scam.
As long as you switch over to one of those beliefs, doesn't matter which, you will instantly be their friend.
Matthew 23
13“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation. 15“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. The Pharisees of Jesus' day didn't care what you believed, as long as you sided with them & paid your tithes.
Yes, shutting off the kingdom of Heaven from their proselytes. Falling away. Creating apostates.
Miri, you must admit, when folks of multiple doctrines band together in unity against ONE group, & ONE GROUP ONLY, it must be evil.
Some folks think I'm some religious nut crying conspiracy.
The thing is, we're discovering that most conspiracy nuts have been right all along.
And we don't argue among ourselves, for the same reason I can't get a good argument going about Eagles vs. Cowboys just among Eagle fans. What's to argue? We agree.
But, thank you. Seriously thank you! I've been wondering how CS1 got the mistaken belief that Reformed Theology is Word of Faith. Now I know. She accepted your "teaching" for "hypergrace."
D
But, the Lord really, really reeeeeeeeeeeally saves and saves permanently is a real issue. When understood, it softens OCD. No need to be obsessive anymore in that one. So, if the idea is not to bring up any aspect of God for fear someone is going to argue seems to mean bring up nothing about God for fear people will argue.
Isn't that what most of the arguing is about on this forum anyway -- a handful of people so determined to get the god they want, they argue vehemently, so everyone gives up trying to change their mind. Then they think they've won. And nothing is left of God on this forum, because it's just a handful of folks "teaching" their version of God.
Sadly, it's working. Instead of assuming we come to BDF to learn about God or to edify one another, BDF has become the place where a handful of people just argue to argue and call that "serving the Lord."
Someone brought up Ariel. Anyone notice she doesn't come on BDF anymore? Anyone notice most people have left BDF? 98% of the people on BDF are here to argue only. 1% are new people who haven't learn yet, (or, they came to argue anyway), and 1% are those, (like you, Miri), who keep trying to bring balance back to BDF.
Ugly says nothing ever changes on BDF. I used to agree with him, but something has changed. TPB have given this forum over to arguers -- people determined to argue over everything, instead of edify.
I'm not giving up talking about God. I'm not giving up enjoying what God gives his people. So, ultimately, the only choice is to skip BDF.
I get what you mean about the arguing, but I'm not giving up on the true God simply for calmness and unity. There is no unity without him. That's already been shown on this thread. The arguers came in to... argue!
Isn't that what most of the arguing is about on this forum anyway -- a handful of people so determined to get the god they want, they argue vehemently, so everyone gives up trying to change their mind. Then they think they've won. And nothing is left of God on this forum, because it's just a handful of folks "teaching" their version of God.
Sadly, it's working. Instead of assuming we come to BDF to learn about God or to edify one another, BDF has become the place where a handful of people just argue to argue and call that "serving the Lord."
Someone brought up Ariel. Anyone notice she doesn't come on BDF anymore? Anyone notice most people have left BDF? 98% of the people on BDF are here to argue only. 1% are new people who haven't learn yet, (or, they came to argue anyway), and 1% are those, (like you, Miri), who keep trying to bring balance back to BDF.
Ugly says nothing ever changes on BDF. I used to agree with him, but something has changed. TPB have given this forum over to arguers -- people determined to argue over everything, instead of edify.
I'm not giving up talking about God. I'm not giving up enjoying what God gives his people. So, ultimately, the only choice is to skip BDF.
I get what you mean about the arguing, but I'm not giving up on the true God simply for calmness and unity. There is no unity without him. That's already been shown on this thread. The arguers came in to... argue!
D
I've played hockey, it's tougher than any man's rugby or American football game.
Hockey sticks are lethel - or maybe it was just the one I held which was lethal.
No matter how hard I tried I kept missing the ball and hitting people!
Thats a good analogy too.
Hockey sticks are lethel - or maybe it was just the one I held which was lethal.
No matter how hard I tried I kept missing the ball and hitting people!
Thats a good analogy too.