in-reply-to-the-statement,,,'Jesus is not God'

[prove-all]

The Word in John 1 is translated from the Greek word Logos and means “Spokesman.”

at that prehistoric time of the first verse of John 1, the Word was (not yet) the Son of God.
He divested himself of His glory as a spirit divinity to be begotten as a human person.

He was made God’s Son, through being begotten or sired by God and born of
the virgin Mary. He says “one of us”! One of the “us” was God the Father
and the other one of the “us” was the Word.

“And God [Elohim] said, (Let us) make man in our image,( after our) likeness

declaired to be the Son of God by the resuration
Thus God and the Word became The Father and Son.

 

[jaybird88]

What about the OT passages saying that He would be God in the flesh? Did God make a man and then made him God? That doesnt really make much sense, seeing that God "shares His glory with no one". Not to mention, where Jesus tells us He will be our judge, the OT tells us God alone is our judge.

If you put 2 and 2 together, it becomes easy to see that He is God. It is all over the bible.

i am not permitted to respond or i get banned.

i said in the other post who i believe Jesus to be. i dont deny or reject anything. if you believe the trinity to be true im not going to tell you your wrong.

 

[jaybird88]

You despise these texts just as you despise the Lord. You have no love for the Jesus of the Bible, you only love your idea of him.

if i spoke such harsh words to another Christian i would feel ashamed.

 

[oldhermit]

i am not permitted to respond or i get banned.

i said in the other post who i believe Jesus to be. i dont deny or reject anything. if you believe the trinity to be true im not going to tell you your wrong.

Let me make this very clear. Do not think that you are anyone else can come on this site openly denying the deity of Jesus and not be called out for it. If you think I will allow this to go unchallenged you are quite mistaken.

 

[oldhermit]

if i spoke such harsh words to another Christian i would feel ashamed.

I do not regard you as a Christian.

 

[jaybird88]

Let me make this very clear. Do not think that you are anyone else can come on this site openly denying the deity of Jesus and not be called out for it. If you think I will allow this to go unchallenged you are quite mistaken.

thanks for the threats. i didnt deny anything btw. i thought i made it very clear that if someone believes in the trinity i would not say they are wrong. i never said the trinity was a false teaching. calm down.

I do not regard you as a Christian.

of course, because anyone that questions a man made doctrine is a heretic.

 

[oldhermit]

thanks for the threats. i didnt deny anything btw. i thought i made it very clear that if someone believes in the trinity i would not say they are wrong. i never said the trinity was a false teaching. calm down.



of course, because anyone that questions a man made doctrine is a heretic.

Please understand. I am not angry, but you need to re-examine what scripture says about Jesus. If you would like to look at these passages I mentioned to see what they have to say about the matter I will be more than happy to help you. I do not really expect you to say yes because you seem to have your mind made up regardless of what these passages say. I will be waiting for your answer.

 

[Zmouth]

Only God can forgive sins so if Jesus is not God then he is a liar

4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:4-5

Have you considered you lied to yourself, how did the Book lie to you when your are the only one who is reading it for you? Is it not written that a man can not teach himself how to read and write? Then at least nature shows that man can not teach himself how to read and write because no man has. Then if the Holy Ghost doesn't reveal unto you what is sealed within the book then how does man unseal it himself. Thus the lust, then comes forth the lie and thence the separation from the Spirit of Truth.

If Jesus was God then he would be eternal, and if eternal then he could not die. If he did not die then he could not be resurrected. So the liar only destroys his own soul: thus it is written that thou shall in no wise maketh or loveth a lie.

So all men are liars and everyone needs to come to repentance for their sins?

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner [liar] that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just [honest] persons, which need no repentance.Luke 15:7

 

[jaybird88]

Please understand. I am not angry, but you need to re-examine what scripture says about Jesus. If you would like to look at these passages I mentioned to see what they have to say about the matter I will be more than happy to help you. I do not really expect you to say yes because you seem to have your mind made up regardless of what these passages say. I will be waiting for your answer.

no hermit, my mind is very open. we have had trinity discussions before, i am sure you remember and i have gone back and forth on it. years ago i said it was a false teaching, i do not believe this anymore and i do not suggest now it is false.
i also believed at one time paul was a false teacher. this was something i was very wrong about.
i make mistakes and i do it often. i have no shame in admitting it. but i will not jump into a belief that makes no sense or cant be supported by the Father or the Son.

 

[oldhermit]

no hermit, my mind is very open. we have had trinity discussions before, i am sure you remember and i have gone back and forth on it. years ago i said it was a false teaching, i do not believe this anymore and i do not suggest now it is false.
i also believed at one time paul was a false teacher. this was something i was very wrong about.
i make mistakes and i do it often. i have no shame in admitting it. but i will not jump into a belief that makes no sense or cant be supported by the Father or the Son.

I am not talking about sense and logic. I am talking about a revealed understanding of who Jesus is. You seem to be running hither and yon in your quest to find some excuse for not believing what the Bible says on a number of issues. This is part of your problem. You appeal to everything out there except scripture for you episemological foundation. You are one of the most confused people I have ever run across because you have not foundation for determining truth.

 

[Blain]

4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:4-5

Have you considered you lied to yourself, how did the Book lie to you when your are the only one who is reading it for you? Is it not written that a man can not teach himself how to read and write? Then at least nature shows that man can not teach himself how to read and write because no man has. Then if the Holy Ghost doesn't reveal unto you what is sealed within the book then how does man unseal it himself. Thus the lust, then comes forth the lie and thence the separation from the Spirit of Truth.

If Jesus was God then he would be eternal, and if eternal then he could not die. If he did not die then he could not be resurrected. So the liar only destroys his own soul: thus it is written that thou shall in no wise maketh or loveth a lie.

So all men are liars and everyone needs to come to repentance for their sins?

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner [liar] that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just [honest] persons, which need no repentance.Luke 15:7

I have lied to myself many times yes but not about who God is, Jesus is God and God is eternal and your point of how eternal doesn't die is a good point in which case my response is that even though he is eternal he can since he is God allow himself to die however he didn't stay dead did he? he rose from the dead proving he is eternal because not even death could keep him.
If he isn't God then he is the son of God yes? but what is a son of God? is he human is he God like? if anything he would be a demigod but even so only God is pure and holy only God could be in the human flesh born of the flesh and spirit and not sin no human can never sin and more so than that only God has the authority to forgive sins because only he is sinless.

Also many times he speaks of himself and the father being one while at the same time regarding father in very high respect often times speaking as if he himself was lower than him but in doing this it was because he was making an example to always honor and point to father

 

[jaybird88]

I am not talking about sense and logic. I am talking about a revealed understanding of who Jesus is. You seem to be running hither and yon in your quest to find some excuse for not believing what the Bible says on a number of issues. This is part of your problem. You appeal to everything out there except scripture for you episemological foundation. You are one of the most confused people I have ever run across because you have not foundation for determining truth.

i believe what the bible says i just dont jump into every man made doctrine because its the "norm". just because 100 people believe something does not make it true.

 

[oldhermit]

i believe what the bible says i just dont jump into every man made doctrine because its the "norm". just because 100 people believe something does not make it true.

Why on earth would you jump to the conclusion that I believe in the deity of Christ simply because someone else does. I accept the deity of Christ based on the preponderance of evidence from scripture and I will hold to what scripture teaches on this even if every person in the world denies it. Do I sound to you like a person who simply follows a crowd?

 

[Tintin]

Who let the Jack out? I'll tan their hide.

 

[crossnote]

:smoke: let the scriptures speaks for itself
:read:
Philippians 2:5
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus,
6*Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider being equal with God a treasure to be grasped,
7*But emptied Himself, taking the form of a slave, becoming in the likeness of men;
8*And being found in fashion as a man, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient even unto death, and that the death of a cross.

:ty:

godbless us all always

This. ^


Jesus was either thoroughly deceived (and thus not worthy to be a Savior) OR He was what He considered Himself to be...equality with God.

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: and that is the mystery hidden in the writings
from the scriptures that we must learn to know the real meaning of being a human
for knowing god is such a hard thing on the ancient time
where humans could talk to god and still disobeying him
never learned anything to become a real human
with a good heart and a pure soul
thats why he sents his only begotten
:read:
10*For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
11*For both he that santifies and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12*Saying, I will declare your name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto you.
13*And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God has given me.
14*Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

everyone knew how the lord jesus christ appears to his disciples
:read:
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
36*Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, ""Peace to you.""
37*But being alarmed and becoming fearful, they thought they saw a spirit.
38*And He said to them, ""Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts?"
39*"Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.""
40*When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.
41*But as they still disbelieved for joy, and marveled, He said to them, ""Do you have any food here?""
42*So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb.
43*And taking it, He ate it in their presence.

... .we believe that the lord jesus christ is the only begotten son of god
meaning
ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD
THE LORD GOD THE ALMIGHTY FATHER WHO IS GOOD AND DOESNT LIE
THEN IF THE FATHER IS A GOD AND SO THE SON ALSO

:8) continue to
:read:
Jesus Appears to His Disciples
36*Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, ""Peace to you.""
37*But being alarmed and becoming fearful, they thought they saw a spirit.
38*And He said to them, ""Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts?"
39*"Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.""
40*When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.
41*But as they still disbelieved for joy, and marveled, He said to them, ""Do you have any food here?""
42*So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb.
43*And taking it, He ate it in their presence.

. ... and there were always a question left behind because we let some of our
thinking which is a human thoughts corrupts our minds when we had learned from the past that what is written must read by our good hearts and by our pure soul
not with our human eyes and ears
like this verse that if you would read this youll
learned that jesus has a flesh and bones
then when he went to heaven he went with a uncorruptable human body literally
a new being as if we were humans and become one with the lord jesus christ
he will gave us a body that will long last forever
as the written passage in the genesis
:read:

Genesis 3:22*And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23*Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24*So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[JaumeJ]

Was God lying when He gave Isaiah the words in Is. 9:6 saying the Child born unto us would be called, among a long list of others, God Almighty? No, I think not.

I do understand it is quite possible that though Jesus Christ, in the flesh, was the same as you or I, but that was His temporary (if true), condition so He would be given the ability to cover the sins of all others, you, me and all. In this sense I may be inclinded to understand your understanding, but forme, I go with God's teaching through Isaiah. Jesus Christ is God, and I do not pretend to know or understand this wonderful mystery fully, therefore I am obliged to go by what God has taught all in the Book He provided. Of course teh Holy Spirit is the true source of all learning and understanding, amen.

hey my friends the little jew in me told me to start this thread

sometimes it seems that all christians believe that jesus is god in the flesh but thats not true.
jesus is son of god not god himself.

i give you one example: when jesus was hanging at the cross he said " my god my god why have you forsaken me" so he was praying to god when he was at the cross so he cant be god.

you guys always say jesus is in heaven sitting next to the father so is jesus the father?

i dont want to hurt feelings but you have to understand that. Its important for his second coming.

when he comes and you think hes god you get too confused.

 

[Grandpa]

John 18:3-6
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, cometh thither with lanterns and torches and weapons.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

 

[DP]

Correct, Jesus Christ is not the Almighty God of the Holy Bible, but Jesus is like his Heavenly father, also, the cross used in worship to God is a form of idolatry. There is no real proof that Jesus Christ was put to death on a cross, the cross is pre-christian and was used in pagan worship. It is time for me to get out of babylon the great.

Maybe you ought to read the Isaiah 9 Scripture where Jesus is referred to as "The everlasting Father" (KJV).

His name Jesus comes from the Greek name Iesous. And this name Iesous is a transliteration from the Hebrew of the name Yehoshua, which is rendered as Joshua in our English Bibles.

If you look our Lord Jesus' name in the Hebrew, it means this...

OT:3091
Yehowshuwa` (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah); or Yehowshu` a (yeh-ho-shoo'-ah); from OT:3068 and OT:3467; Jehovah-saved; Jehoshua (i.e. Joshua), the Jewish leader: -Jehoshua, Jehoshuah, Joshua. Compare OT:1954, OT:3442.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Basically, the Hebrew version of the name means... Yah has saved.

So one cannot really exclude The Father out of our Lord Jesus' Name, because The Son's Name points directly back to The Father (Yah, a shortened version of Yahaveh, YHVH).

Yet for the sake of God coming in the flesh to die on the cross, The Son Who always existed everlasting with The Father, chose to be born in the flesh to die for us, and by that act offer Himself as the Perfect Sacrifice for one and all time for the forgiveness of sin. It is in that Commission on High which makes our Lord Jesus' role in The Godhead separate from The Father's, while still being one of 3 Persons in The Godhead.

In the Book of Hebrews, Jesus is described as being made a little lower than the angels FOR THE SAKE OF DYING ON THE CROSS. Doesn't mean our Lord Jesus was not fully God, even when He came in the flesh. It simply means that He chose to be born in the flesh like us, and suffer like us being without sin, and die on the cross for us, which being born in the flesh is not something likely fit for a Heavenly King Creator of the universe. But His Perfect Sacrifice on the cross for us was indeed... an act of a Heavenly King of Righteousness Which The Father created all things through.

 

[adhidw]

hey my friends the little jew in me told me to start this thread

sometimes it seems that all christians believe that jesus is god in the flesh but thats not true.
jesus is son of god not god himself.

i give you one example: when jesus was hanging at the cross he said " my god my god why have you forsaken me" so he was praying to god when he was at the cross so he cant be god.

you guys always say jesus is in heaven sitting next to the father so is jesus the father?

i dont want to hurt feelings but you have to understand that. Its important for his second coming.

when he comes and you think hes god you get too confused.

Isa43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.






In the eternal realm before the creation of the world, there were : God and His creatures (spiritual beings).
His creatures= faithful angels, devils, and His special creatures He intended to create physically: Adam, Eve, Abel, Seth, ........, Noah, ........, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,......., the last name in the book of life.


There is a difference between angels and Adam cs, angels have perfect state in knowledge and ability so they have known well about good and bad or they have positive and negative will/freewill ( by their own will they can choose whether obey or rebel to God ), but Adam cs have zero state in knowledge and ability so they have only positive will, they don't know about good and bad /they have no freewill ( they will never fall if they are not deceived ).
How can Adam cs bring glory to God if all of them in zero state ? (bring glory to Him is the purpose of creation ).
They all shall be moved to the perishable world where in that realm a growing process in knowledge and ability are possible ( being said as "to wander to the perishable earth with perishable body that one the body will be demolished and change to the eternal body" ----> then live in NHNE ).


This growing process is known as purification process or salvation process where this process is said as "salvation by God Grace only " ----> God works only ,men never be able to do .


How can God send them to the perishable world ? ---> the perishable world shall be exist.
There must be fallen event in Eden (they shall not be created together in one moment Rom8:20 ).


Then Abel and the next will be put in to the womb of a woman to be born = born of God John1:12-13 , Rom 9:7-8 .


Now this is a necessity that they are all need to be redeemed, saved by God Him self.

Isa60:16 Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob



Isa54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called




Isa53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand
(prophesied of the cross event ).

God Him self as the only savior and redeemer should tell us , if He was(is) the only one who should be the redeemer, and savior , by understood well about this finally His people can bring glory to Him.


If men since they were driven out from Eden, they really knew if they would never save by their own effort as good as what ever it be cause they were merely spiritually dead beings, of course they needed not an event of "demonstrating/manifestation of God Grace / cross event" ( meant they all understood well already ), but actually no one of them knew and admitted about it .
What was the reason they were driven out ?.
Merely not ate the fruits of the tree of life intentionally , If in fact they were driven out , it meant this event was the very strong evidence , that they were a spiritually dead creatures (Gen2:17) (if they were not driven out from Eden, they and all their offspring surely ate the fruits intentionally ).
If by this very simple prohibition they surely couldn't fulfill , how could they still confident that they could fulfill the hundreds of Torah laws ?-----> it is very ridiculous isn't it ?.
Their pride about it run age by age without any humbleness , til the time for verification about their spiritually dead condition was over , so God should change Him self to be the Messiah for demonstrating /manifesting His Grace where by this event all of His people were (are) opened their eyes by force to understand that they were(are) saved by God charity/God Grace only ( so since that time being said as the age of Grace/NT ) so it was a necessity .


What does God tell about cross event ?.
In the OT , we are told that : saved = being springkled by the blood of the sacrificed lamb by the priest (figurative).
Saved = being risen from dead (figurative).
These two messages are in the Messiah hand to be explained to us.
We can arrange the information of the cross event as this :


" Hi , Men you will never reach your salvation by your own work , what ever worthy you can do, cause salvation is only by God Grace ( Eph2:8 ) , that is what i am going to demonstrate to you , i will be crucified and after 3 days I shall resurrect from dead , in this event : the sacrificed blood is my blood = God blood, The priest will be acted by Me as manifestation of God Him self , the one who is saved will be acted by Me ( it is God who elects as He wants ,not by ours ), And you who believes if this event is manifestation of God Grace you are the winner ,cause you will be resurrected too though you were already dead.
If you don't believe , you are the loser by your existence you are walking to your eternal death , cause you who don't believe Me you surely will say that I am not God, I am a created being, means I also spiritually dead creature as you are ,means in this event there is no manifestation of God Grace , means I who is not God ,I shall pay my own sins , means every one shall pay his/her own sins too, means there is no premise "salvation is only by God Grace ", If yes ! why can't you fulfill the Torah laws ?, Why do I being said as savior (Luk2:11 ), Why do I being said as redeemer (Eph1:7 ) , who are redeemed by Me ?, The eternal fire shall be your final place ".


By these messages about the cross event -----> Jesus is proven as God in flesh .