Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

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J

jasonfight7

Guest
#21
#21
Thank guys for the replies and answers.


To me I do not believe that baptism is for salvation. I believe that baptism is outward expression of your faith. If a person says that you need to be baptism in order to be saved. Then you are saying Jesus death is not enough. That you are adding work of yourself to the cross. Apostle Paul said:

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1:6-9

However, I do not believe that the Sinner Prayer is biblical. Even if you bring up Romans 10:9

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9

The example of a Sinner Prayer is this " "God, I know that I am a sinner. I know that I deserve the consequences of my sin. However, I am trusting in Jesus Christ as my Savior. I believe that His death and resurrection provided for my forgiveness. I trust in Jesus and Jesus alone as my personal Lord and Savior. Thank you Lord, for saving me and forgiving me! Amen!"

Romans made it clear that you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raise him from the dead. It doesn't says to believe that Jesus died on the cross. It also doesn't doesn't says to confess your sins.

I believe that in order for a person to be saved is to believe what Jesus claim to be (John 8:24) and believe in his resurrection

Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” Acts 8:37
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#22
#22
jasonfight7 said:
Thank guys for the replies and answers.


To me I do not believe that baptism is for salvation. I believe that baptism is outward expression of your faith. If a person says that you need to be baptism in order to be saved. Then you are saying Jesus death is not enough. That you are adding work of yourself to the cross. Apostle Paul said:

I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. - Galatians 1:6-9

However, I do not believe that the Sinner Prayer is biblical. Even if you bring up Romans 10:9

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9

The example of a Sinner Prayer is this " "God, I know that I am a sinner. I know that I deserve the consequences of my sin. However, I am trusting in Jesus Christ as my Savior. I believe that His death and resurrection provided for my forgiveness. I trust in Jesus and Jesus alone as my personal Lord and Savior. Thank you Lord, for saving me and forgiving me! Amen!"

Romans made it clear that you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raise him from the dead. It doesn't says to believe that Jesus died on the cross. It also doesn't doesn't says to confess your sins.

I believe that in order for a person to be saved is to believe what Jesus claim to be (John 8:24) and believe in his resurrection

Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.” Acts 8:37
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I agree 100 percent
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#23
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
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#23
shroom2 said:
The eunuch wanted to be baptized in water. Philip did not command him to be baptized in water. Philip said that if he believed, to go for it.


Yes, Philip was teaching the gospel, people wanted to hear.

Acts 6: 3 Brothers, choose seven men from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. We will turn this responsibility over to them 4 and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word." 5 This proposal pleased the whole group. They chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit; also Philip, Procorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicolas from Antioch, a convert to Judaism. 6 They presented these men to the apostles, who prayed and laid their hands on them. 7 So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.

No, a man, commissioned by the power of Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands of the apostles, known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom, taught as Holy Spirit directed him.

They were baptized. It doesn't say water, does it?

The context demands it. In every instance that I know of, where it speaks of people believing, or accepting the gospel message, and then being baptized, it is water baptism.

Acts 1:5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost


Yep, same guy.
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Now, getting back to the eunuch, you missed the whole point, as you usually do. The eunuch was not a Jew. He had no prior knowledge of the gospel. He had no preconceived ideas, as you do, and yet, after being taught those things he needed to know for salvation, by Philip, a man in a position to know a lot more than you, or I, (full of the Spirit and wisdom) believed it necessary to be baptized in water. And Philip allowed him to believe this, which would have been a deception, if it were not true.
 
J

jasonfight7

Guest
#24
#24
shroom2 said:
They were baptized. It doesn't say water, does it?

Acts 1:5) For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost


Yep, same guy.
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I hate to be rude but did you even read the whole chapter of Acts 8?

Acts 8:35-38

Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#25
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
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0
#25
jasonfight7 said:
I hate to be rude but did you even read the whole chapter of Acts 8?

Acts 8:35-38

Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him.
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You're not being rude. Yes, I read it, and commented on it above.

The eunuch was baptized in water. But it was not necessary for his salvation.
 
S

shroom2

Banned
#26
Apr 13, 2011
2,229
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0
#26
superdave5221 said:
Now, getting back to the eunuch, you missed the whole point, as you usually do. The eunuch was not a Jew. He had no prior knowledge of the gospel. He had no preconceived ideas, as you do, and yet, after being taught those things he needed to know for salvation, by Philip, a man in a position to know a lot more than you, or I, (full of the Spirit and wisdom) believed it necessary to be baptized in water. And Philip allowed him to believe this, which would have been a deception, if it were not true.
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I believe you are the one with the preconceived idea that water baptism is necessary. In the gospels, it was. Most Christians today cannot get past the gospels. Christianity started on the Day of Pentecost. Our baptism now is in holy spirit.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#27
#27
Scripture makes it clear. there is one God, one lord, ONE BAPTISM.

It can't be water and the HS, it is either or. Trying to replace the work of the HOLY SPIRIT in baptism. and replace his work with a man in water baptism is considered blasphemy, your attributing to the man or woman who baptizes you the work which is supposed to be done by the HS.
 
J

jasonfight7

Guest
#28
#28
shroom2 said:
You're not being rude. Yes, I read it, and commented on it above.

The eunuch was baptized in water. But it was not necessary for his salvation.
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I didn't say that Phillip baptized eunuch for his salvation. What I mean was that baptism is important because it commanded by the Lord Jesus Christ. In Bible times, a person who converted from one religion to another was often baptized to identify conversion. Baptism was the means of making a decision public.Therefore, baptism is an important step of obedience after salvation but cannot be a requirement for salvation.I believe that baptism of the Holy Spirit is by water.
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#29
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
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#29
shroom2 said:
I believe you are the one with the preconceived idea that water baptism is necessary. In the gospels, it was. Most Christians today cannot get past the gospels. Christianity started on the Day of Pentecost. Our baptism now is in holy spirit.
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I have preconceived ideas? And yet, you cannot explain why Philip, whose credibility is beyond question, would teach that it was.

Now, speaking of credibility. For someone to say that "baptism went out with pentecost" speaks of an almost criminal ignorance of history. Water baptism was practiced universally in the N.T. church, including the congregations started by Paul and the other missionaries.

In fact, water baptism was practiced, and believed to be necessary for salvation, by almost all Christians until the 16th century. There is ample evidence for this in the writings of Church fathers, AND secular history for this period. Even Martin Luther taught that it was necessary for salvation.

Water baptism, "went out" for many with the teachings of Zwingli, who proposed it to be unnecessary for salvation in 1525. That's almost 1500 years after pentecost, in case you have preconceived notions about math as well.
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#30
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
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#30
eternally-gratefull said:
Scripture makes it clear. there is one God, one lord, ONE BAPTISM.

It can't be water and the HS, it is either or. Trying to replace the work of the HOLY SPIRIT in baptism. and replace his work with a man in water baptism is considered blasphemy, your attributing to the man or woman who baptizes you the work which is supposed to be done by the HS.
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No, I am attributing it to God! Notice, "baptize in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I don't know anyone who thinks that the person who baptizes them is the one saving them.

When the apostles cast out demons in Jesus' name, do you attribute the work of casting out the demons to the apostles, and not to Jesus?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#31
#31
superdave5221 said:
No, I am attributing it to God! Notice, "baptize in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I don't know anyone who thinks that the person who baptizes them is the one saving them.

When the apostles cast out demons in Jesus' name, do you attribute the work of casting out the demons to the apostles, and not to Jesus?
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Sorry I disagree. You holding the work of the HS to the work of man. WHy do this? God does not need man to place me in water to baptise me into Christs death and burial (rom 6) or into his body (1 cor 12)

According to baptismal regenerationslists. The HS is prevented from doing those things until some man places me in water. And I also must do the "WORK" of going to that baptism.

I am saved by faith , not works. otherwise I can take credit.
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#32
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
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#32
eternally-gratefull said:
Sorry I disagree. You holding the work of the HS to the work of man. WHy do this? God does not need man to place me in water to baptise me into Christs death and burial (rom 6) or into his body (1 cor 12)

According to baptismal regenerationslists. The HS is prevented from doing those things until some man places me in water. And I also must do the "WORK" of going to that baptism.

I am saved by faith , not works. otherwise I can take credit.
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We've been through all of this before EG. Acts is a book of history. It shows how the doctrines and will of God were put in practice by Christ's church during the first century.

Instead of covering old ground, why not just explain why Philip, a man full of the Spirit and wisdom, would teach the eunuch in such a way as to make him think that he needed water baptism?

By the way. If I offer you a gift, and you accept it, are you taking credit for the gift, just by accepting it? A little logic is in order here.
 
Scotty

Scotty

Senior Member
#33
Feb 10, 2010
906
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#33
Being baptized by water isn't what gets us into the Kingdom of Heaven; it's our faith in Jesus Christ as our Savior and Lord.
No, water baptism is not necessary for a person to be saved. Should we do it? Yes, Jesus commands us to be baptized by water but it's not to receive salvation.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#34
#34
superdave5221 said:
We've been through all of this before EG. Acts is a book of history. It shows how the doctrines and will of God were put in practice by Christ's church during the first century.

Instead of covering old ground, why not just explain why Philip, a man full of the Spirit and wisdom, would teach the eunuch in such a way as to make him think that he needed water baptism?

By the way. If I offer you a gift, and you accept it, are you taking credit for the gift, just by accepting it? A little logic is in order here.
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yeah a little logic is in order.

If you hand me a gift. and say, now I want you to go let this man dip you in water I will give it to you. Is it really a gift?

Now if you hand me a gift. and say I don't have to do anything for it. And I take it. It is already mine, I did nothing but have faith the gift was worth taking.

Now if you then you say, could you do me a favor. this gift is my precious thing to you. It is my total forgiveness off all you have done against me. You are washed. Could you do me a favor. and go allow this man to wash you dip you in water. I use it as a symbol to show the world what I myself has done for you. And I do it in my gratitude for what was given to me. It is truly a gift. I did the work to show my appreciation. Not to get the gift.

As for the eunich. The man asked to be baptised. Philip made sure he had faith before he baptized him. The euchich was already saved by his faith. His baptism did not save him, nor was it infered that it did
 
CND

CND

Junior Member
#35
May 10, 2010
16
0
1
#35
Depends on the situation.
 
CND

CND

Junior Member
#36
May 10, 2010
16
0
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#36
example:
The thief on the cross (saved without baptism).
 
P

peachetty

Guest
#37
#37
Nopee.... baptism by water is only an outward sign of what has already happened on the inside AKA baptized with the Holy Spirit. :)
 
superdave5221

superdave5221

Senior Member
#38
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
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#38
eternally-gratefull said:
As for the eunich. The man asked to be baptised. Philip made sure he had faith before he baptized him. The euchich was already saved by his faith. His baptism did not save him, nor was it infered that it did
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You still don't get it. This man, had no reason to ask to be baptised, unless Philip's teaching caused him to think that it was important.

Even if Shroom's dubious inference is correct, and the man had a preconceived idea of the importance of baptism, surely Philip's teaching would have cleared that up. The Holy Spirit caused Philip to go to the eunuch in the first place. Would the Holy Spirit have sent Philip to teach the eunuch incorrectly?

It appears that after the teaching, that the eunuch was most concerned about being water baptized. Why would this be so?

Acts 8: 26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Go south to the road--the desert road--that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza."

Now, it appears to me that Holy Spirit was in control of this whole situation. And what do you know? On the desert road, as the eunuch just comes to belief, there just happens to be water available for baptism.

You don't see God's providence at work here?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#39
#39
superdave5221 said:
You still don't get it. This man, had no reason to ask to be baptised, unless Philip's teaching caused him to think that it was important.

Even if Shroom's dubious inference is correct, and the man had a preconceived idea of the importance of baptism, surely Philip's teaching would have cleared that up. The Holy Spirit caused Philip to go to the eunuch in the first place. Would the Holy Spirit have sent Philip to teach the eunuch incorrectly?

It appears that after the teaching, that the eunuch was most concerned about being water baptized. Why would this be so?

Acts 8: 26 Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, "Go south to the road--the desert road--that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza."

Now, it appears to me that Holy Spirit was in control of this whole situation. And what do you know? On the desert road, as the eunuch just comes to belief, there just happens to be water available for baptism.

You don't see God's providence at work here?
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what I don't get is you totally ignored my example.

Baptism was a well known thing in those days. it would be presumptious of us to think the eunich knew nothing about baptism.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#40
#40
We've been through all of this before EG. Acts is a book of history. It shows how the doctrines and will of God were put in practice by Christ's church during the first century.


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with that logic i need someone to lay hands on me to receive the Holyspirit then signs will come from it. right?
 
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