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Dave, read this, if you like:
Truth Or Tradition - What is True Baptism: Water or Holy Spirit?
PS: I responded to your 'dig' at me about preconceived ideas with a 'dig' back at you. I mean you no ill will.
Truth Or Tradition - What is True Baptism: Water or Holy Spirit?
PS: I responded to your 'dig' at me about preconceived ideas with a 'dig' back at you. I mean you no ill will.
A
superdave5221
We've been through all of this before EG. Acts is a book of history. It shows how the doctrines and will of God were put in practice by Christ's church during the first century.
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Abiding
with that logic i need someone to lay hands on me to receive the Holyspirit then signs will come from it. right?
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EG:
And what does that have to do with baptism? are you telling you believe in a water baptism salvation also??
__________________
Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
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Abiding:
EG...as always...ready, fire, aim...its no wonder i seldom respond to your posts
We've been through all of this before EG. Acts is a book of history. It shows how the doctrines and will of God were put in practice by Christ's church during the first century.
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Abiding
with that logic i need someone to lay hands on me to receive the Holyspirit then signs will come from it. right?
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EG:
And what does that have to do with baptism? are you telling you believe in a water baptism salvation also??
__________________
Eternally Grateful for the grace God has shown a wretched soul such as myself.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,
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Abiding:
EG...as always...ready, fire, aim...its no wonder i seldom respond to your posts
Your question was 'loaded', but i love your answer because it is says it all.
Unfortunately though, there seems to be many who cannot see the forest because of
the trees. Sad. It is no surprise to me that people get so confused, but most people
do not understand why John was preaching a new means to be forgiven of sins, which
was not prescribed by the Law (Mosaic). Simply put though, John came to annoint
Jesus into His Ministry, which was in keeping with the Laws concerning priesthood.
But once He (Jesus) shed His Blood, we left the 'water business' for the remission of
sin (which was only for a time), and went back under the Blood (which is the way it
was since Adam and Eve): only this time, it was the Final Sacrifice, once for All!!!
For those who believe water baptism is necessary i have this one question:
According to Paul there is One faith, One Lord, and One Baptism; therefore,
since you can only have one, which one do you want to believe in: the Bapt.
of Water or the Bapt. of the Holy Ghost?
A
is it me or are there like 5 conversations about various things going on in one thread?
never was a very big "crowd" person the idea gets lost in the mix, the responses to one conversation is misunderstood to be a response to another, toes get stepped on, people get bumped, cool aid gets spilled, people get mad, chairs go flying, a few black eyes and bruised ribs later, you might find them back at the bar having drinks and I sit back wondering, maybe its a "guy thing" you know the whole male bondage and all....
oh well........wanders back out....
never was a very big "crowd" person the idea gets lost in the mix, the responses to one conversation is misunderstood to be a response to another, toes get stepped on, people get bumped, cool aid gets spilled, people get mad, chairs go flying, a few black eyes and bruised ribs later, you might find them back at the bar having drinks and I sit back wondering, maybe its a "guy thing" you know the whole male bondage and all....
oh well........wanders back out....
A
im here to have a chat, talk to people about views that differ from me.
but you have to listen and ask questions to do that. I think it doesnt work
alot of the time. too many to apt to argue their belief rather than just present
it. Im capable of talking to myself if i want some to agree with me.
So i can get bored and just send off a glib remark.
but you have to listen and ask questions to do that. I think it doesnt work
alot of the time. too many to apt to argue their belief rather than just present
it. Im capable of talking to myself if i want some to agree with me.
So i can get bored and just send off a glib remark.
N
If baptism is necessary for salvation there are 2 problems:
1. Salvation would be based on works against the Bible- For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9; All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.- Isaiah 64:6
2. If baptisms is necessary for salvation and Jesus didn't need to be saved why did he get baptized?
1. Salvation would be based on works against the Bible- For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Ephesians 2:8-9; All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.- Isaiah 64:6
2. If baptisms is necessary for salvation and Jesus didn't need to be saved why did he get baptized?
A
Because God told John to, to expose the Messiah.
John 1:25-34
King James Version (KJV)
25And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
26John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Jesus said because it was the Fathers will
King James Bible
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
but: after the death, burial, and resurection, which is what the type represented had been fulfilled.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence
John 1:25-34
King James Version (KJV)
25And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
26John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.
28These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
30This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is He which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Jesus said because it was the Fathers will
King James Bible
And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
but: after the death, burial, and resurection, which is what the type represented had been fulfilled.
Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence
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A
im here to have a chat, talk to people about views that differ from me.
but you have to listen and ask questions to do that. I think it doesnt work
alot of the time. too many to apt to argue their belief rather than just present
it. Im capable of talking to myself if i want some to agree with me.
So i can get bored and just send off a glib remark.
but you have to listen and ask questions to do that. I think it doesnt work
alot of the time. too many to apt to argue their belief rather than just present
it. Im capable of talking to myself if i want some to agree with me.
So i can get bored and just send off a glib remark.
or read my Bible and mumble out loud sometimes it spills over on the forums [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcuiuIwtpa4[/video]
J
There is no biblical scriptures to baptized of the Holy Spirit. To me, a person have to be baptized in order to received the Holy Spirit. It not biblical. The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior. Before baptism.
We know from Scripture that there is more than one type of baptism taught in the New Testament (Hebrews 6:2). So there is no clear evidence talking about baptism of the Holy Spirit.
of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. - Hebrews 6:2
We know from Scripture that there is more than one type of baptism taught in the New Testament (Hebrews 6:2). So there is no clear evidence talking about baptism of the Holy Spirit.
of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. - Hebrews 6:2
E
I have no clue where you get this.. What logic? Nothing I said even hints at this.
It seems like whenever I post something and you do respond you come a firing at me with something negative. so how do you expect me to respond to you??
what was wrong with my post. and why would we need to have hands laid on us?? Has nothing to do with phillip and the eunich. Which is what I responded to.
It seems like whenever I post something and you do respond you come a firing at me with something negative. so how do you expect me to respond to you??
what was wrong with my post. and why would we need to have hands laid on us?? Has nothing to do with phillip and the eunich. Which is what I responded to.
Jason I am going to keep it short.... Eph 4 says ONE BAPTISM!!!! John the baptist stands in the watr and says... I baptize with water, He that comes after me will baptize with FIRE AND SPIRIT!!! which baptism is Eph 4 talking about? And if you REALLY study the Word of God, you will find that BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit IS THE SALVATION CONCLUDED!!! Repent....from ALL sin.... And be Baptised IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST!! Baptize in the Name of Jesus, not water... The NAme of Jesus is the Holy Spirit! Christ Jesus is the Holy Spirit.... Read acts 8:5 to 18 and see ow the water and Holy Spirit baptism work! Only ONE is salvation! the water baptism is just a step of faith, and there is NOTHING wrong with it, except mayne who does the baptizing. Even John the Baptist was a pretty special man, and he is still a puppy, compared to the ONE who baptize with fire and spirit. Please read acts 8:5 to 18 it is very enlighting on the subject.
People get fruit mixed up with requirement.
The only thing I know for sure is a requirement for Salvation is that you believe in the Lord Jesus. Everything else that some groups of people say is a requirement is really just fruit of the saved person.
A saved person wants to be baptized just like the Lord Jesus was baptized. A saved person wants to be just like Jesus.
Here is my list of requirements for Salvation;
1. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ
2. Keep believing in the Lord Jesus Christ
3. See steps one and two
God Bless You
The only thing I know for sure is a requirement for Salvation is that you believe in the Lord Jesus. Everything else that some groups of people say is a requirement is really just fruit of the saved person.
A saved person wants to be baptized just like the Lord Jesus was baptized. A saved person wants to be just like Jesus.
Here is my list of requirements for Salvation;
1. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ
2. Keep believing in the Lord Jesus Christ
3. See steps one and two
God Bless You
J
You can keep it short all you want, I goes what the bible said not with other people has to says. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is not biblical. I said this once and I will says it again, The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior. Baptism is an outward expression of your faith.
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E
well then I guess rom 6 and 1 cor 12 must be done when man baptizes us in water? Because if it is not the HS doing these baptizings. then it has to be men. And your saying water baptism is essential for our salvation.
Not to mention. John made it clear that jesus would baptize with the hs. He did not tell these to the apostles, he told it to all the people.
so unless John lied. I do not see your point.
Not to mention. John made it clear that jesus would baptize with the hs. He did not tell these to the apostles, he told it to all the people.
so unless John lied. I do not see your point.