Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

[Earth]

If someone is truly seeking the lord and continues to have a relationship with him, then God will lead that person to do his will. If his will is baptism, we can not rely solely on our own understanding of what is written in the bible - and must instead walk with the Lord so that we may do his will. To me, these types of conversations are interesting - but take us away from the fact that God desires us to have a relationship with him, God desires our hearts - and you will know the truth when you see his face, but not before then. There is no way for us to understand everything God has in store for all of us. A debate of this type of nature is bordering on the bible coming before Christ.

 

[jandian]

If Baptism was necessary for salvation, then there would be no death-bed repentance.

However, it's a ceremonial act, the reflects the death of your old life and the birth of your new one in Christ. Its was advised in the word of God and It has been practised throughout the new testament even after Christ died....

its always good to follow God's advice. maybe we could look at it as being important for life on earth...If we look at the life of Christ we would see that He only received the Holy Spirit after baptism.....so He was empowered for Ministry after that..So there is maybe there is something to it in terms of living on earth not necessarily salvation... what do you guys think?

 

[jasonfight7]

well then I guess rom 6 and 1 cor 12 must be done when man baptizes us in water? Because if it is not the HS doing these baptizings. then it has to be men. And your saying water baptism is essential for our salvation.

Not to mention. John made it clear that jesus would baptize with the hs. He did not tell these to the apostles, he told it to all the people.

so unless John lied. I do not see your point.

Ok first, I didn't say baptism is essential for salvation. I am against adding your own works of Baptism to the cross in order to be saved.


In conclusion, how do we receive the Holy Spirit? We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior (John 3:5-16). When do we receive the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit becomes our permanent possession the moment we believe.

The meaning of the word “baptize.” It comes from a Greek word which means “to submerge in water.”

Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. “Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life” (Romans 6:3-4).

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:


Baptism do not saved you. It's by God's grace and the blood of Jesus Christ saved you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok first, I didn't say baptism is essential for salvation. I am against adding your own works of Baptism to the cross in order to be saved.

Good!

In conclusion, how do we receive the Holy Spirit? We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior (John 3:5-16). When do we receive the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit becomes our permanent possession the moment we believe.

The meaning of the word “baptize.” It comes from a Greek word which means “to submerge in water.”

We are not talking about receiving the HS. Receiving the HS and the work of the HS baptizing us is not the same act. they are two different acts.

The greek word Baptizo means to be immersed or placed into, it also is used as a term which means to dye (like dyeing a shirt) your correct. But water in not found in the greek definition. Water was a word added by men who wanted to make water baptism essential for salvation.

Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. “Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life” (Romans 6:3-4).

Yes, and who baptized us into his death and burial. in which time our sins were washed away by the blood of Christ.

Baptism is a verb in those sentences. Death and burial is the object to which we were baptized into. (many want to assume water where water is no found in these verses)

John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

Yes. but this has nothing to do with baptism. this is recieveing

Baptism do not saved you. It's by God's grace and the blood of Jesus Christ saved you.

Yes again true. But what does rom 6, 1 cor 12. Col 2:12 and titus 3: 5 have to do with our cleansing and placing into the body of Christ. who does this work? Man in water, or the Holy Spirit himself

 

[superdave5221]

Ok first, I didn't say baptism is essential for salvation. I am against adding your own works of Baptism to the cross in order to be saved.

We are not talking about receiving the HS. Receiving the HS and the work of the HS baptizing us is not the same act. they are two different acts.

Matthew 3: 13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" 15 Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented.16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Why was Jesus water baptized?

It certainly had nothing to do with sin.

What happened immediately as he was being baptized? Holy Spirit descending on Him perhaps?

Was this a symbolic example for us?

People like to speak of symbolic things in the bible as being irrevelant. Jesus washing the disciples feet at the last supper was symbolic. And yet, Jesus told Peter, "unless you allow me to do this, you will have no part in me". (John 13:8)

Taking part in the last supper is symbolic. And yet Jesus told the Jews unless they did this they would have no life. (John 6:53)

When we take part in Communion are we contributing works to our salvation?

 

[jasonfight7]

Ok first, I didn't say baptism is essential for salvation. I am against adding your own works of Baptism to the cross in order to be saved.

Good!



We are not talking about receiving the HS. Receiving the HS and the work of the HS baptizing us is not the same act. they are two different acts.

The greek word Baptizo means to be immersed or placed into, it also is used as a term which means to dye (like dyeing a shirt) your correct. But water in not found in the greek definition. Water was a word added by men who wanted to make water baptism essential for salvation.


Yes, and who baptized us into his death and burial. in which time our sins were washed away by the blood of Christ.

Baptism is a verb in those sentences. Death and burial is the object to which we were baptized into. (many want to assume water where water is no found in these verses)



Yes. but this has nothing to do with baptism. this is recieveing




Yes again true. But what does rom 6, 1 cor 12. Col 2:12 and titus 3: 5 have to do with our cleansing and placing into the body of Christ. who does this work? Man in water, or the Holy Spirit himself

Anyway, I already found my answers. So I'm done with this thread.

 

[shroom2]

We are not talking about receiving the HS. Receiving the HS and the work of the HS baptizing us is not the same act. they are two different acts. [/quote}
No, they aren't. When a person is saved, he is baptized in holy spirit. He receives holy spirit. They are the same thing.

How do you think they are different?

 

[Scotty]

No, they aren't. When a person is saved, he is baptized in holy spirit. He receives holy spirit. They are the same thing.

How do you think they are different?

Wrong. A person receiving salvation and being baptized in the Holy Spirit are two completely different things.

Yes, the Holy Spirit comes and dwells in us the moment we are saved but that is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Go take a drink of water.. you'll have some water in you, but go jump into a pool of water and you'll be completely engulfed in the water.

Similarly,we get a "drink" of the Spirit when we are saved, but the Holy Spirit wants to do much more with us. He wants to totally engulf us with His power.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We are not talking about receiving the HS. Receiving the HS and the work of the HS baptizing us is not the same act. they are two different acts. [/quote}
No, they aren't. When a person is saved, he is baptized in holy spirit. He receives holy spirit. They are the same thing.

How do you think they are different?

Because recieving, or the HS coming in you is called annointing.

Baptism, or the HS baptizing us into the death burial of Christ, and into his body is baptism.

two different things.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ok first, I didn't say baptism is essential for salvation. I am against adding your own works of Baptism to the cross in order to be saved.

Matthew 3: 13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14 But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" 15 Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented.16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Why was Jesus water baptized?

It certainly had nothing to do with sin.

What happened immediately as he was being baptized? Holy Spirit descending on Him perhaps?

Was this a symbolic example for us?

People like to speak of symbolic things in the bible as being irrevelant. Jesus washing the disciples feet at the last supper was symbolic. And yet, Jesus told Peter, "unless you allow me to do this, you will have no part in me". (John 13:8)

Taking part in the last supper is symbolic. And yet Jesus told the Jews unless they did this they would have no life. (John 6:53)

When we take part in Communion are we contributing works to our salvation?

Yes it is symbolic. Was not Jesus being seen as the messiah? Was not John told that he who he baptizes and the spirit descending like a dove, this is he who will take away the sin of the world?

It is highly symbolic. Just like the OT. A priest was washed (baptized) then the sacrifice came, then the annointing.

But the HP was washed, then annointed. Then the sacrifice.

Why did God tell moses to do these things in front of the people. So they would be known. these are called out by God.

Just like jesus was being identified.

But like the high priest. Jesus was washed, then annointed. then he gave himself as the sacrifice.

We are washed by the sacrifice. then annointed.

We are not washed in water by a priest. we are washed by the HS taking us into the death and burial of Christ.

I can not agree, Taking communion is not contributing to the work of our salvation. We are already saved. We are obeying Christ because he saved us. We can not help save ourselves by taking communion, going to church, or allowing a man to baptize in water. It is wholly the work of God. and happens before any of these physical things (works)take place.

 

[superdave5221]

Yes it is symbolic. Was not Jesus being seen as the messiah? Was not John told that he who he baptizes and the spirit descending like a dove, this is he who will take away the sin of the world?

It is highly symbolic. Just like the OT. A priest was washed (baptized) then the sacrifice came, then the annointing.

But the HP was washed, then annointed. Then the sacrifice.

Why did God tell moses to do these things in front of the people. So they would be known. these are called out by God.

Just like jesus was being identified.

But like the high priest. Jesus was washed, then annointed. then he gave himself as the sacrifice.

We are washed by the sacrifice. then annointed.

We are not washed in water by a priest. we are washed by the HS taking us into the death and burial of Christ.

I can not agree, Taking communion is not contributing to the work of our salvation. We are already saved. We are obeying Christ because he saved us. We can not help save ourselves by taking communion, going to church, or allowing a man to baptize in water. It is wholly the work of God. and happens before any of these physical things (works)take place.

Thank you E.G. This is very informative.

By the way. I don't think taking communion is contributing to our salvation. It was a hypothetical question.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank you E.G. This is very informative.

By the way. I don't think taking communion is contributing to our salvation. It was a hypothetical question.

I didn't think you did. You scared me there..lol!!

 

[superdave5221]

I didn't think you did. You scared me there..lol!!

LOL, we may disagree on some things, but I think you know me better than that!!

 

[shroom2]

Wrong. A person receiving salvation and being baptized in the Holy Spirit are two completely different things.

Yes, the Holy Spirit comes and dwells in us the moment we are saved but that is not the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

That's exactly what it is

Go take a drink of water.. you'll have some water in you, but go jump into a pool of water and you'll be completely engulfed in the water.

Similarly,we get a "drink" of the Spirit when we are saved, but the Holy Spirit wants to do much more with us. He wants to totally engulf us with His power.

When a person acts on Romans 10:9, he gets holy spirit and all the abilities that come with it. That's the definition (part of it) of being saved. We are sealed with it unto the day of redemption.

There is no "second anointing". When a person is saved, God does His part by giving you the gift of holy spirit. It's up to us (by reading God's Word) to figure out what it is we have, and learn to use it.

 

[Scotty]

That's exactly what it is

When a person acts on Romans 10:9, he gets holy spirit and all the abilities that come with it. That's the definition (part of it) of being saved. We are sealed with it unto the day of redemption.

There is no "second anointing". When a person is saved, God does His part by giving you the gift of holy spirit. It's up to us (by reading God's Word) to figure out what it is we have, and learn to use it.

Getting "the Holy Spirit and all the abilities that comes with it" is not being saved. Being saved is putting your faith and trust in Jesus Christ and believe in Him as your Lord and Savior, as well as proclaiming it to the world.

John 20:20-23 shows that the disciples were already born again (or "saved") before the Holy Spirit fell at Pentecost.

John 20:20-23 20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD. 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Acts 2, 8, 10, and 19 shows example of baptism in the Holy Spirit after conversion.

Acts 2:1-4 1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 8:14-17 14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10: 44 - 46 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word
45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter..

Acts 19: 1-6 1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

I would post more but I have to go to work now. God bless.

 

[jandian]

Getting "the Holy Spirit and all the abilities that comes with it" is not being saved. Being saved is putting your faith and trust in Jesus Christ and believe in Him as your Lord and Savior, as well as proclaiming it to the world.

John 20:20-23 shows that the disciples were already born again (or "saved") before the Holy Spirit fell at Pentecost.

John 20:20-23 20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD. 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Acts 2, 8, 10, and 19 shows example of baptism in the Holy Spirit after conversion.

Acts 2:1-4 1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 8:14-17 14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10: 44 - 46 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word
45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter..

Acts 19: 1-6 1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

I would post more but I have to go to work now. God bless.

I pray that they get that

 

[shroom2]

Getting "the Holy Spirit and all the abilities that comes with it" is not being saved. Being saved is putting your faith and trust in Jesus Christ and believe in Him as your Lord and Savior,

And when you do that, you receive holy spirit.

as well as proclaiming it to the world.

That is not necessary for salvation. It's between you and God.

John 20:20-23 shows that the disciples were already born again (or "saved") before the Holy Spirit fell at Pentecost.

John 20:20-23 20And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD. 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Jesus was giving instruction on what to do when the new birth became available on pentecost. The gift of holy spirit was not available until pentecost. Acts 2:4 "and they were filled with holy spirit..."

Acts 2, 8, 10, and 19 shows example of baptism in the Holy Spirit after conversion.

Acts 2:1-4 1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

That is when the apostles received the new birth, became saved, received holy spirit.

Acts 8:14-17 14Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

They had received holy spirit but had not yet manifested (spoke in tongues). Peter and John went down to minister to them and fix the situation.

Acts 10: 44 - 46 44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word
45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter..

As they heard, they believed and got born again, received holy spirit, and spoke in tongues.

Acts 19: 1-6 1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Apollos taught them the baptism of John. (Acts 18:24ff) John did not preach the new birth. Paul taught them correctly, and they got born again and manifested.

I would post more but I have to go to work now. God bless.

Thanks.

 

[Scotty]

I pray that they get that

So do I, Sis. So do I.

 

[Scotty]

That is not necessary for salvation. It's between you and God.

I don't know where you heard that from but it's wrong. It is necessary for salvation. God's Word says so.

Romans 10:9 -That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[shroom2]

I don't know where you heard that from but it's wrong. It is necessary for salvation. God's Word says so.

Romans 10:9 -That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

"Confessing with thy mouth" does not have to be "proclaiming it to the world".

You can say "I confess Jesus Christ as my Lord" to yourself, and God.