Is dispensationalism same as replacement theology?

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BeyondET

Guest
You've been told this once prior, to be drawn is to be finally saved, that is the meaning and outcome of all drawn. But, maybe you're a Universalist, and that is what you are teaching.

Anyhow:

"...this drawing of them to him, in consequence of his death, supposes distance from him, want of power, and will, to came to him, and the efficacious grace of God to bring them, though without any force and compulsion; and this is to be understood not of every individual of human nature; for all are not drawn to Christ, or enabled to come to him, and believe in him. There were many of the Jews who would not, and did not come to him for life; and who instead of being drawn to him in this sense, when lifted up on the cross, vilified and reproached him; moreover, in the preceding verse, "a world" is spoken of, whose judgment, or condemnation, was now come; and besides, there was at this time a multitude of souls in hell, who could not, nor never will be, drawn to Christ; and a greater number still there will be at the last day, who, instead of drawing to him in this gracious way and manner, will be bid to depart from him, as having been workers of iniquity."
You would rather stand out in desert, then hear the call to the boat from one man, who was not given the ability to believe there was going to be a flood, that man chose to believe in the flood by his free will of choice, God waited and held back the waters until the boat was completed, why because that man who had chosen to build the boat had no help from the world, no extra man power to help build it. Only him and his family helped, God found favor in Noah, did you get that God FOUND favor, God did not say Noah I give you the ability to believe in the flood, no not at all, God found favor in Noah because Noah chose to believe in God.

Basically You believe God gave you the ability to believe that God gave you the ability to believe, because if you don't believe that then it's only by your choice to believe that God gives you the ability to believe.

If you believe that God gave you the ability to believe then the same would apply about Jesus on the cross that He died on the cross for your sins. You believe that is Not by your own reasoning and believing but because you choose to believe that God has given you that ability.

Once in your life you didn't know anything in the bible, you choose to read it and you still do, God doesn't give you the ability to read the bible and believe in the bible, you have chosen to believe that God gives you the ability to believe, and Love, and accept others, though in your mind you haven't recieved that ability to accept and love others have you.
 
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No man can come to Me except MY FATHER draw him. You must have a funny idea about marriage,,
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. John 6:44

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6

It seems to me that even if the Father draws; until one believes in Christ, one cannot come to the Father.
 
B

BeyondET

Guest
God is the Alpha and the Omega the beginning and the end. God knows the beginning and the End of the physical universe and everything in between, God paused the sun for a day, so that events could take place, choices on a battle field. God paused the flood held back the waters until Naoh completed the boat, God held back the waters so that the people could cross safely.

Our whole life each and every persons time bubble, are all but a pause, a wait from God, though our clocks on the wall don't stop nor is the earth being stopped from spinning but God gives all people the free will of choice and waits to see the choices we make in our physical life.
 
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Dispensationalism is the opposite of replacement theology, it is as far from it as can be.
Dispensationalists make a distinction (a strong one at that) between Israel and the Church.
Replacement theology is actually not called that by its adherents, but is more of a derogatory term, what the other view actually is saying is that the Church is the fulfillment of Israel, or the continuation of it, the True Israel if you will.

Both views have biblical support to a point, but I for one stick with the view that there indeed is a difference between Church and Israel, the epistle to the Romans makes that quite clear.
I used to hold the opposite view, not due to bible study of my own, but merely due to tradition of the Lutheran church.
 
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willybob

Guest
The term replacement theology is a missnomer, nothing replaced the nation of Israel, the church/ecclesia BY FAITH in the wilderness IS Israel we can even see this principle in Acts 7.............then nation of Israel ended and was dispersed among the Gentiles, never to be again again some 2000 years ago...or as Jesus said "I leave unto you your house desolate" .........be blessed
 
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unobtrusive

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2017
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The term replacement theology is a missnomer, nothing replaced the nation of Israel, the church/ecclesia BY FAITH in the wilderness IS Israel we can even see this principle in Acts 7.............then nation of Israel ended and was dispersed among the Gentiles, never to be again again some 2000 years ago...or as Jesus said "I leave unto you your house desolate" .........be blessed
Sounds reasonable.
Replacement Theology refuted:

1. It is unbiblical and forces a twisted and ‘spiritualized’ interpretation onto huge chunks of prophetic Scripture – hundreds of passages are affected.

2. It cannot explain the continued existence of the Jewish people, nor the miraculous rebirth of the state of Israel in 1948. According to Replacement theology God is finished with the Jews (as of the New Testament). Thus, people who believe Replacement theology cannot give glory to God for the many astounding miracles that have occurred in the past century with respect to the rebirth of the modern state of Israel because, according to this theology, God wouldn’t do that for the Jews. If not, who is responsible for what has happened? Replacement theology can only answer, “not God.” Replacement theology has the effect of repudiating one of the greatest proofs for the existence of God in the world today – the miraculous rebirth of the nation of Israel.

3. Throughout history this particular system of philosophical thought has paved the way for ‘Christians’ to engage in anti-Semitic behavior. The Christian Church has a horrific and embarrassing history of persecuting the Jewish people, and that history of persecution would never have been possible without Replacement theology.

Allow me to make something clear. Replacement theology isn’t in itself racism and many of the people today who hold to Replacement theology are not racists. But, Replacement theology is the open gate through which all ‘Christian’ persecution of the Jews (Catholicism) has had to travel throughout history.

The Bible teaches that…

(1) God’s covenants with the Jews are still intact,…
(2) that the Jews are still God’s chosen people, (salvation being of the Jews) and...
(3) that God is planning to someday save the Jews and bless them above all the other nations of the earth, it would be impossible for a person who believes that the Bible teaches such things to then turn around and persecute the Jews in the name of that Bible. It happened. History proves this.

In order for a religious sect to persecute the Jews in the name of Christianity, they must first come up with a plan that allows them to do so biblically. A theology like Replacement theology, which says that God has rejected the Jews in anger, and has no more place for them in His plans fits the bill. Only then can replacement for the Jews be placed under the banner of Christianity, as has happened so frequently throughout history.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the Christian Church has replaced Israel in God’s plan.


But what we teach is that the true Israel were the remnant, the large number of Jews who believed in the Messiah, wo were joined by Gentile proselytes who thus became a part of Israel, the true Israel. These who refused to believe were rejected by God. Thus the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD



Thus, adherents of
Replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and that God’s covenants with them have been cancelled
.

False, we believe that His promises continued towards the true IsraeI (the true church), although in a far better way as outlined in Hebrews 11,10-16.
In other words, according to Replacement theology, the Jewish people today no longer have any unique part to play in God’s plans
the Jews only have a part to play if they come to Christ, and join the true Israel

they are just like any other nation on the earth(English, Spanish, Chinese, etc.). All the stuff God wanted to do with the Jews in the Old Testament, He is now doing instead with Christians.
Well?

Here, in point form, are the main tenets of Replacement Theology:
1.Israel (the Jewish people and the land) has been replaced by the Christian Church in the purposes of God, or, more
precisely, the Church is the historic continuation of Israel to the exclusion of the former.
wrong. the church incudes large numbers of Jewish people. they have never been excluded, if they repented and turned to Jesus Christ. Indeed they were the foundations of the church.

2.
The Jewish people are now no longer a "chosen people." In fact, they are no different from any other group, such as the English, Spanish, Chinese or Egyptians.
This is true, although many of them are English, Spanish, Chinese or Egyptian.

3.Since Pentecost of Acts 2, the term "Israel," as found in the Bible, now refers to the Church.
Not always. But generally correct, indeed they formed the basis of the church.

4.The promises, covenants and blessings ascribed to Israel in the Bible have been taken away from the Jews and given to the Church, which has superseded them.


Because the true church was founded on the true Israel.

the Jews are subject to the curses found in the Bible, as a result of their rejection of Christ.
Some of them, not all of them.

As a result of these beliefs, Replacement theology is forced to interpret the many prophecies in Scripture about Israel in allegorical and ‘spiritualized’ ways;


no we interpret them as the prophet expected them to be interpreted.

they have to find ways of reading the Christian Church into all of those
prophecies about the future instead of the literal nation of Israel and the Jewish people, since the Church has replaced the Jews in God’s plan for the world.
Sadly you are blind to the truth, True Israel IS the true church but including Gentile proselytes,
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
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Replacement Theology refuted:

1. It is unbiblical and forces a twisted and ‘spiritualized’ interpretation onto huge chunks of prophetic Scripture – hundreds of passages are affected.


False, except in so far as the NT 'spiritualised' them

2. It cannot explain the continued existence of the Jewish people, nor the miraculous rebirth of the state of Israel in 1948.
of course we can. No one doubts His promises in Romans 11 that many of them will turn to Christ. He has preserved them for that purpose. But there is no salvation for them outside of Christ,

According to Replacement theology God is finished with the Jews (as of the New Testament).
Not those who turn to Christ,

Thus, people who believe Replacement theology cannot give glory to God for the many astounding miracles that have occurred in the past century with respect to the rebirth of the modern state of Israel because, according to this theology, God wouldn’t do that for the Jews.
Miracles? lol You forget that the people in Palestine are largely Gentiles who converted. to Judaism.

If not, who is responsible for what has happened?
God is responsible for the whole world, not just the Jews. But He may well have permitted them to gather with a view to their conversion,

Replacement theology can only answer, “not God.”
Well certainly they are not behaving like God's people.


Replacement theology has the effect of repudiating one of the greatest proofs for the existence of God in the world today – the miraculous rebirth of the nation of Israel.
It isn't miraculous, It can be explained quite easily.

3. Throughout history this particular system of philosophical thought has paved the way for ‘Christians’ to engage in anti-Semitic behavior
.

I'm glad you put 'Christians' (meaning nominal Christians), It wasn't this belief that made them engage in it.

The Christian Church has a horrific and embarrassing history of persecuting the Jewish people, and that history of persecution would never have been possible without Replacement theology.
Rubbish, it was based on man's sinfulness, just as the persecution of Christians by the Jews in 2nd century AD was,

Allow me to make something clear. Replacement theology isn’t in itself racism and many of the people today who hold to Replacement theology are not racists. But, Replacement theology is the open gate through which all ‘Christian’ persecution of the Jews (Catholicism) has had to travel throughout history.
Rubbish, they didn't need any excuse,

The Bible teaches that…

(1) God’s covenants with the Jews are still intact,…
Where?

(2) that the Jews are still God’s chosen people, (salvation being of the Jews) and...
Where?

(3) that God is planning to someday save the Jews and bless them above all the other nations of the earth,
Where?

it would be impossible for a person who believes that the Bible teaches such things to then turn around and persecute the Jews in the name of that Bible.
Its actually quite easy,


In order for a religious sect to persecute the Jews in the name of Christianity, they must first come up with a plan that allows them to do so biblically.
Why?

A theology like Replacement theology, which says that God has rejected the Jews in anger, and has no more place for them in His plans fits the bill.
But that is replacement theology as you interpret it, it is not what we believe,

Only then can replacement for the Jews be placed under the banner of Christianity, as has happened so frequently throughout history.
Why?
 

unobtrusive

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2017
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Reason # 2 why Replacement Theology is an unbiblical doctrine: The New Testament explicitly states that the Old Testament promises and covenants to Israel are STILL the possession of Israel, even during this Church age and even while the nation is currently in a state of unbelief.

a) Romans 11:29: “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable” (ESV).
As stated above, this statement of Paul’s comes in the context of his discussion of God’s faithfulness to the Jews in spite of their unfaithfulness; and Paul clearly states that God’s promises to the Jews are ‘irrevocable.’ In other words, the Church can NEVER replace the Jewish people in God’s plan.

b) Romans 9:3-5: “For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them BELONG the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them BELONG the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.”

Here Paul declares – present tense! – that the covenants and the promises still belong to Israel. Paul said this during the Church Age! Thus, based on this passage alone Replacement Theology is refuted – God has not cut the Jewish people out of the covenant He made with them, nor is He planning to give the blessings He promised to the Jews to the Church instead (though, of course, the Church will certainly share in many of the blessings that God will give the Jews).
 
Mar 28, 2016
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False, except in so far as the NT 'spiritualised' them
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of course we can. No one doubts His promises in Romans 11 that many of them will turn to Christ. He has preserved them for that purpose. But there is no salvation for them outside of Christ,



Not those who turn to Christ,



Miracles? lol You forget that the people in Palestine are largely Gentiles who converted. to Judaism.



God is responsible for the whole world, not just the Jews. But He may well have permitted them to gather with a view to their conversion,



Well certainly they are not behaving like God's people.




It isn't miraculous, It can be explained quite easily.

.

I'm glad you put 'Christians' (meaning nominal Christians), It wasn't this belief that made them engage in it.



Rubbish, it was based on man's sinfulness, just as the persecution of Christians by the Jews in 2nd century AD was,
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Rubbish, they didn't need any excuse,


Where?



Where?



Where?



Its actually quite easy,




Why?



But that is replacement theology as you interpret it, it is not what we believe,



Why?


The time of reformation (1st century) has come. Christ did come the one time in the flesh for a demonstration of a work that was finished from the foundation of the world . The use of Jewish flesh in cerimoinal laws as shadows is finished .The goverment of God is restored to the period of Judges before there was a visible King in Israel . Jewish flesh served the purpose God intened, He cursed the fig tree forever no more shadows.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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b) Romans 9:3-5: “For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. They are Israelites, and to them BELONG the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them BELONG the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.”

Here Paul declares – present tense! – that the covenants and the promises still belong to Israel. Paul said this during the Church Age! Thus, based on this passage alone Replacement Theology is refuted – God has not cut the Jewish people out of the covenant He made with them, nor is He planning to give the blessings He promised to the Jews to the Church instead (though, of course, the Church will certainly share in many of the blessings that God will give the Jews).
The church inherited the promises to Israel which included Jews, and the 10 scattered tribes and Gentiles. You are missing the point of what Paul is saying, he's saying that the promises are to those of faith, the unbelieving cut themselves off from the promises even though the promises were for them as well.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: