Is it possible for a true Christian to one day no longer believe in God?

[eternally-gratefull]

Let's say a person is truly saved and born again.
Let's also say he begins backsliding heading o so close to destruction.

Since God is not willing that any of His should perish, don't you think God will take that person 'home' before he reached that theoretical point of no return (eternally lost)? Or is your God too impotent or uncaring for His own?

again, it comes to not knowing who God is. That he

1. Would save someone KNOWING they will fall away (since he is omniscient, and knows all things and has since eternity past)
2. Is so unloving, he would allow someone to fall away, without trying everything he can to stop it (he must not be so powerful that he can stop showing his love to a point where someone reject him now) or will not take a person home, will will suffer an eternal fatal wound.

 

[erikanutella]

[h=3]My Answer to the poll is Yes (but they will no longer be saved) [/h]
Let see what the Bible says about being Fake/Genuine Christians :

Marks of the True Christian ~Romans 12:9-21English Standard Version (ESV)
9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. 10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. 11 Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit,[a] serve the Lord. 12 Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. 13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.


14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. 17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. 18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. 19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it[c] to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

2 Timothy 2:15 ESV
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

" As We Read what is written that We must possessed all the characteristic of God as We deny Ourselves and Follow Him "

and What Does the Bible says about Fake Christians?

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Jesus is not tolerating the hypocrites even now many people love to preach the word of God they have the knowledge and some even spent their life studying the bible they even build their own churches proclaiming they believe God even telling their genuine because they have been in the ministry for such a long time and also if u can read also mentioned they even had the authority to drive out demons in the name of God but it clearly says that If Your Heart is not committed and fully aligned/dedicated to the Lord it is nothing.

Let us try harder here on earth that we do all that pleases the Lord for that DAY were we face GOD and He knows Us
because if not we will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.


Matthew 7:15 ESV


“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.


1 John 4:1 ESV


Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.


It is a Reminder for us by the Lord through the Bible
Human Knowledge is Good but always seek the God's Knowledge and wisdom for us to Understand it wonders.

-- If You called Yourself Genuine Christians but whatever means and yet time come in your life You will not Believe in God? then their is a big question in your faith not to Our God because He is the same Yesterday and Forever. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (Revelation 22:13) and Your Salvation will be in danger because only who steadfast and persevere will finish the race and win the crown of Life (Heb 12:12).

God Bless to all

 

[erikanutella]

My Answer to the poll is Yes (but they will no longer be saved)


Let see what the Bible says about being Fake/Genuine Christians :

Marks of the True Christian ~Romans 12:9-21English Standard Version (ESV)
9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. 10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. 11 Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit,[a] serve the Lord. 12 Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. 13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.


14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. 17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. 18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. 19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it[c] to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

2 Timothy 2:15 ESV
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

" As We Read what is written that We must possessed all the characteristic of God as We deny Ourselves and Follow Him "

and What Does the Bible says about Fake Christians?

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Jesus is not tolerating the hypocrites even now many people love to preach the word of God they have the knowledge and some even spent their life studying the bible they even build their own churches proclaiming they believe God even telling their genuine because they have been in the ministry for such a long time and also if u can read also mentioned they even had the authority to drive out demons in the name of God but it clearly says that If Your Heart is not committed and fully aligned/dedicated to the Lord it is nothing.

Let us try harder here on earth that we do all that pleases the Lord for that DAY were we face GOD and He knows Us
because if not we will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.


Matthew 7:15 ESV


“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.


1 John 4:1 ESV


Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.


It is a Reminder for us by the Lord through the Bible
Human Knowledge is Good but always seek the God's Knowledge and wisdom for us to Understand it wonders.

-- If You called Yourself Genuine Christians but whatever means and yet time come in your life You will not Believe in God? then their is a big question in your faith not to Our God because He is the same Yesterday and Forever. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (Revelation 22:13) and Your Salvation will be in danger because only who steadfast and persevere will finish the race and win the crown of Life (Heb 12:12).

God Bless to all

 

[notuptome]

so all these people who claim to have had genuine faith but now no longer believe are just lying...or mistaken...or confused? And on what basis do you make that claim? Solely because they no longer believe? So someone can be a faithful follower of Jesus Christ for 20 years of their life, but if they ever no longer believe, then all of a sudden those past 20 years no longer were genuine by default? How does that work?

When a child stops believing in Santa Claus, does that mean that child never genuinely believed in Santa Claus? When a devout Muslim of 20 years converts to Christianity, were they all of a sudden never a genuine muslim? And what do you mean by a "genuine" Christian? Their faith was genuine? How can that be quantified? If they believe it to be true and live their lives in tune with their belief, how is it not genuine exactly? Or are you saying it magically becomes ingenuine from the beginning once someone deconverts?

I understand why you believe this, especially if you follow the Calvinist doctrines of perseverance of the saints. But this way of thinking is a logical fallacy known as the No True Scotsman fallacy. I explained a bit more in an earlier post what exactly that is and how it relates to this discussion.

I really do expect you to comprehend Spiritual things. Believing in Santa and believing in Christ are very different. Belief in Christ comes from God through His word the bible. The presence of the Holy Spirit in a believer seals them unto the day of redemption. Belief in Christ that is saving belief is transformational just as the caterpillar transforms into the butterfly. Christians are new creations in Christ by Gods grace.

Salvation is not dependent upon me but upon God Himself.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My Answer to the poll is Yes (but they will no longer be saved)


Let see what the Bible says about being Fake/Genuine Christians :

Marks of the True Christian ~Romans 12:9-21English Standard Version (ESV)
9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. 10 Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. 11 Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit,[a] serve the Lord. 12 Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. 13 Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.


14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. 17 Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. 18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. 19 Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it[c] to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” 20 To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

2 Timothy 2:15 ESV
Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.

" As We Read what is written that We must possessed all the characteristic of God as We deny Ourselves and Follow Him "

and What Does the Bible says about Fake Christians?

Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Jesus is not tolerating the hypocrites even now many people love to preach the word of God they have the knowledge and some even spent their life studying the bible they even build their own churches proclaiming they believe God even telling their genuine because they have been in the ministry for such a long time and also if u can read also mentioned they even had the authority to drive out demons in the name of God but it clearly says that If Your Heart is not committed and fully aligned/dedicated to the Lord it is nothing.

Let us try harder here on earth that we do all that pleases the Lord for that DAY were we face GOD and He knows Us
because if not we will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.


Matthew 7:15 ESV


“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.


1 John 4:1 ESV


Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.


It is a Reminder for us by the Lord through the Bible
Human Knowledge is Good but always seek the God's Knowledge and wisdom for us to Understand it wonders.

-- If You called Yourself Genuine Christians but whatever means and yet time come in your life You will not Believe in God? then their is a big question in your faith not to Our God because He is the same Yesterday and Forever. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. (Revelation 22:13) and Your Salvation will be in danger because only who steadfast and persevere will finish the race and win the crown of Life (Heb 12:12).

God Bless to all

so was a fake christian ever saved?

 

[Word_Swordsman]

I can't remember when I learned an important belief that if you put your hand in a fire, it will hurt a lot. I hope and pray as I grow older that I won't stop believing that lesson. Who would stop me from doing such a thing? I've taken burn injuries several times, though not in a premeditated manner. Accidents have caused me pain. Not one time did an angel or God try to stop those accidents, then fail. I accept that there was no effort to prevent those accidents, though some events in my life convinced me of divine intervention, like the time I drove between two cars exploding into shrapnel after hitting head-on just ahead of me on a two lane highway with no shoulder. All the occupants of those cars died by the time anyone could get to them. There wasn't a single scratch on my new pickup. I do believe God intervenes sometimes for individual and nations whether deserving or not, but will not excuse unbelief, apostasy, backsliding, false doctrines that damn souls, etc.

Scriptures lead directly to a present ongoing sanctification following the act of believing upon Jesus to be saved from sin, based on his commandments, and related instructions from the writers of the Bible. The Word also indicates an ongoing salvation based on ongoing belief in the gospel and person of Jesus. Like remembering not to burn a hand foolishly, the scriptures also often warn us not to abandon the "way" (faith of) of Christ. We must remain "possessors" of Christ, not only "professors" (utterers of) of Christ.


Matthew 10:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Matthew 24:13 (KJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13 (KJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


That repeated saying of Jesus refers to the many sufferings of Israel to come, which came and are yet to come, and to anyone associated with the name of Jesus (Christians), taught to expect persecution because the world hated him. Even false believers who identify with his name are subject to the same persecution, though without reward if in unbelief, or in gross error, doing damage to the gospel.

 

[KennethC]

Let's say a person is truly saved and born again.
Let's also say he begins backsliding heading o so close to destruction.

Since God is not willing that any of His should perish, don't you think God will take that person 'home' before he reached that theoretical point of no return (eternally lost)? Or is your God too impotent or uncaring for His own?

You are posing a hypothetical question instead of just believing what the passage from Paul says, and if a person has backslide that means they are already in sin again. What God would do by the Holy Spirit is chastise that person to have them repent and correct them, not have them die while in that unrepented sin/s.

God chastises for correction, if he had somebody die while in a sin that would not be correction !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are posing a hypothetical question instead of just believing what the passage from Paul says, and if a person has backslide that means they are already in sin again. What God would do by the Holy Spirit is chastise that person to have them repent and correct them, not have them die while in that unrepented sin/s.

God chastises for correction, if he had somebody die while in a sin that would not be correction !!!

then how could said person ever backslide to the point they lose salvation?

(I know you have me on ignore.. but it is still a valid question)

 

[KennethC]

then how could said person ever backslide to the point they lose salvation?

(I know you have me on ignore.. but it is still a valid question)

I will answer this question as I do not dodge questions, and that is that that bible shows that some will refuse that chastising and become accursed children (2 Peter 2:14) and fall back into judgment (James 5:12).

 

[Magenta]

1 Tim 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith
and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

 

[KennethC]

1 Tim 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith
and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

Yes another spot where Apostle Paul is speaking on the same subject as he did in Acts 20:28-31, as Paul gives more teachings on being lead away and departing from the faith then any other in the bible. But each one of them touch on this subject from Jesus to Jude.

 

[Jasher]

I phrased this topic a little differently than the question is usually put. But what I want to do in this topic is discuss the topic of people who no longer believe after having put their faith in Christ and having lived for Him for quite some time. Basically, is there such a thing as a genuine ex-Christian? By definition here, that is someone who had genuinely accepted Christ as their Savior, but now no longer believes.

Do you think it's possible? Do you think it's not possible? If anyone has any Scripture to throw into the discussion, I'd be interested to see that as well.

One of the basic principles of God is the concept of free will. Yes you can walk in and you can walk out. Demos left the ministry because he loved this present world. Did he ever come back - not known; but here is what Jesus told the Church at Sardis...

Revelation 3:4-6 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'

So now from the greatest authority in the Bible we know that it is possible to be listed in the book of life and then to have your name removed. And what happens to those whose name is not found in the book of life?

Revelation 20:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[notuptome]

So many extrapolations to placate the wisdom of men.

Is Gods grace so feeble and fickle as to be subject to mans vanity?

Christ spanned the vast gulf from the glories of heaven to the cruel cross of Calvary to redeem fallen man. Shall I then believe that He who paid so great a price would allow me once purchased to give it again to the destroyer?

If your salvation is of self then it can be lost because it never was but if it be of God who is eternal then it too is eternal.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Word_Swordsman]

That's an opinion not shared by apostle Peter. It takes this whole chapter to explain why.
1 Peter 4:1-19 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
[SUP]2 [/SUP] That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Use hospitality one to another without grudging.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

 

[crossnote]

1 Tim 4:1
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith
and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

"The Faith" in this context refers to the body of teaching given to us by the Apostles, not a Christian losing their faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I will answer this question as I do not dodge questions, and that is that that bible shows that some will refuse that chastising and become accursed children (2 Peter 2:14) and fall back into judgment (James 5:12).

so let me get this straight.

God will chasten someone. so they will not die in unrepentant sin. But then they can still fall back into judgment.

Not trying to be rude or sarcastic. but that seems to contradict itself does it not?

 

[Magenta]

"The Faith" in this context refers to the body of teaching given to us by the Apostles, not a Christian losing their faith.

Can someone accept the body of teaching given by the apostles and not be a Christian?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can someone accept the body of teaching given by the apostles and not be a Christian?

the pharisees accepted the body of teaching as given by moses. Were they saved?

 

[KennethC]

"The Faith" in this context refers to the body of teaching given to us by the Apostles, not a Christian losing their faith.

Cross reference with Acts 20:28-31, and also part of the gospel of Christ by faith in Him is keeping with sound doctrine.
If you are not keeping with sound doctrine the teachings of the Lord which were expounded on by the Apostles then your faith in Christ is not a genuine faith in Him.

 

[Magenta]

the pharisees accepted the body of teaching as given by moses. Were they saved?

The question pertinent to the topic under discussion was:

Can someone accept the body of teaching given by the apostles and not be a Christian?