Is Jimmy Swaggart's "Message Of The Cross" Biblical?

[Grandpa]

1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.

Amen.

2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.

No. The cross is a work of Christ. Christ is the means by which all blessings are given.

3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.

The object of our faith must be Christ. Period.

4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.

Will the Holy Spirit help us if we have faith in Christ but do not place extra emphasis on His Cross?


​

The Lord Jesus Christ was the propitiation for our sins not the cross.

The Lord Jesus Christ forgives sins not the cross.

The Blood of Jesus cleanses us not the cross.

The message of the cross is what the Lord Jesus Christ did there not the importance of the cross itself.


Otherwise you have God sharing His Glory with an inanimate object. Place our faith in the cross? You'll have to expound. To me it is faith in Christ and what He has done. I don't even see why someone would say it is ALL wrapped up in the cross when there is so much more to it.


I think it is just the phrase you are using that seems to leave out everything else the Lord does for us. When I see your explanation of what you say the Cross of Christ is I don't have a problem with it. Just the insinuation of the term you use I guess.

 

[notmyown]

The Lord Jesus Christ was the propitiation for our sins not the cross.

The Lord Jesus Christ forgives sins not the cross.

The Blood of Jesus cleanses us not the cross.

The message of the cross is what the Lord Jesus Christ did there not the importance of the cross itself.


Otherwise you have God sharing His Glory with an inanimate object. Place our faith in the cross? You'll have to expound. To me it is faith in Christ and what He has done. I don't even see why someone would say it is ALL wrapped up in the cross when there is so much more to it.

not to mention, without His resurrection we'd still be toast.

all hail King Jesus!

 

[kaylagrl]

Do not listen to your human logic. No where in the bible did logic produce a miracle.
​

Thats not human logic,thats Bible logic. Why did you call it Swaggarts doctrine,as if he invented it? God doesn't need Swaggart. He can and does use many people,Swaggart isn't "special". If what he says lines up with the Bible,fine. Swaggart refused to step down when he was caught in sin and he was wrong,period. Why should others have to go by the rules but Swaggart does not? He was wrong. I hope he has repented,I hope he has overcome his issues.But he was wrong not to step down,especially after telling Jim Baker to step down when he was caught in sin. Thats called a hypocrite.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I attend and I am a member of a Baptist Church. A media member of Family Worship Center (Pastor Swaggart).

this is, apparently, what a media church is

[FONT=&quot]FWC Media Church consists of thousands of people all over the world, who tune in to the Services at Family Worship Center in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, either by the Internet , by SonLife Radio or by the SonLife Broadcasting Network.. This gigantic audience is made up of thousands of people from all walks of life, and of every race and nation.

source

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The major thrust of the Message and Ministry of Family Worship Center is “The Cross of Christ” (I Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2). We teach that Christ is the Source of all things from God, and the Cross is the Means; therefore, the proper application of the Message of the Cross gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work in one’s life. Consequently, all Members share our burden, believe our Message, and desire to make their lives count in a greater way for the Lord Jesus Christ. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We believe that our efforts will be made stronger by [/FONT]your[FONT=&quot] participation. We want you to know, we are happy to have you! Upon your induction into FWC Church, which takes place periodically in Sunday Morning Services, whether you are present or not, you will receive a Certificate of Membership, suitable for framing if you like (please be aware that the certificates are only printed once a month and mailed out around the 15th of each month). [/FONT]To view what we we believe, or our doctrinal statement click here

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Thats not human logic,thats Bible logic. Why did you call it Swaggarts doctrine,as if he invented it? God doesn't need Swaggart. He can and does use many people,Swaggart isn't "special". If what he says lines up with the Bible,fine. Swaggart refused to step down when he was caught in sin and he was wrong,period. Why should others have to go by the rules but Swaggart does not? He was wrong. I hope he has repented,I hope he has overcome his issues.But he was wrong not to step down,especially after telling Jim Baker to step down when he was caught in sin. Thats called a hypocrite.

well, I've done enough research now to know he actually did invent it

literally...all personal revelation...which he received after years of inquiry (he states) regarding his sinful desires

anyway, I intend to post about it just don't have time right now

basically, Swaggart also teaches that everyone but him has it wrong

sound familiar?

 

[kaylagrl]

well, I've done enough research now to know he actually did invent it

literally...all personal revelation...which he received after years of inquiry (he states) regarding his sinful desires

anyway, I intend to post about it just don't have time right now

basically, Swaggart also teaches that everyone but him has it wrong

sound familiar?

Pity is Swaggart was preaching the truth at one time.Instead of excusing his own sin he needs to say "I sinned,I was wrong,I repent." I know a lot of people don't agree with Pentecostalism but aside from that he preached the truth at one time. King David said "my sin is ever before me". If David could humble himself God expects no less from Swaggart. I'll be interested in seeing what you post.

 

[garee]

I don't understand this.

Do you have scripture that EXPRESSLY says this?

I like the idea of most of your concepts I just don't understand the hang-up of the cross.


Why is the cross more important than the resurrection? That I don't understand at all.

The cross is used in a parable that signifies the resurrection.Just as the garden parable signifying the suffering of Christ's Spirit.

But when those who walk by sight requiring a sign they can perform as to what some call Pentecostal faith is not walking by faith but is walking by sight.

Signs are for those who do not walk by faith, but seek after a kingdom that comes by observation .Prophecy for those who do believe scripture to the anchor of their souls .

Signs follow those, not lead those that believe according as it is written. (Prophecy)

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;


In Christ's name the gospel cast out demons . They will speak a new language prophecy.If they have sinned the Holy Spirit will heal them and they will recover

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; (a metaphor) and if they drink any deadly thing,(a metaphor)it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick(a metaphor), and they shall (spiritually) recover.

They will take up serpents, as a brood of vipers and not be affected by the false prophecy coming from false prophets as false apostles, called a "law of the fathers" as oral tradition coming as commandments of men .They make prophecy without effect so that man can continue to walk by sight requiring a sign before they will believe. after the natural course of this world . Signs follow those who trust prophecy.

Its a evil generation, the generation of natural unconverted men who do require as sign or a noise (tongue) as a sign .They call that self edification a form of pride, as the avenue of the father of lies. We walk by faith, the unseen, not by sight, the temporal as that seen

 

[kaylagrl]

The cross is used in a parable that signifies the resurrection.Just as the garden parable signifying the suffering of Christ's Spirit.

But when those who walk by sight requiring a sign they can perform as to what some call Pentecostal faith is not walking by faith but is walking by sight.

Signs are for those who do not walk by faith, but seek after a kingdom that comes by observation .Prophecy for those who do believe scripture to the anchor of their souls .

Signs follow those, not lead those that believe according as it is written. (Prophecy)

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;


In Christ's name the gospel cast out demons . They will speak a new language prophecy.If they have sinned the Holy Spirit will heal them and they will recover

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; (a metaphor) and if they drink any deadly thing,(a metaphor)it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick(a metaphor), and they shall (spiritually) recover.

They will take up serpents, as a brood of vipers and not be affected by the false prophecy coming from false prophets as false apostles, called a "law of the fathers" as oral tradition coming as commandments of men .They make prophecy without effect so that man can continue to walk by sight requiring a sign before they will believe. after the natural course of this world . Signs follow those who trust prophecy.

Its a evil generation, the generation of natural unconverted men who do require as sign or a noise (tongue) as a sign .They call that self edification a form of pride, as the avenue of the father of lies. We walk by faith, the unseen, not by sight, the temporal as that seen

Ya,umm no. Im Pentecostal,AofG,and I do not seek a sign. Tongues has its place but it is not the end all and be all. I'd appreciate that you don't tar everyone as "evil and unconverted" just because they believe differently about tongues than you do. smh

 

[Nehemiah6]

The cross is used in a parable that signifies the resurrection.Just as the garden parable signifying the suffering of Christ's Spirit.

How did you arrive at this conclusion? There is nothing parabolic about Gethsemane or Calvary. These are real historical events witnessed by eyewitnesses, and having a deeper spiritual meaning. But again a spiritual meaning is not parabolic -- it is spiritual truth. Parables are merely stories to illustrate spiritual truths. But the passion of Christ was very real, very intense, and very significant.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Ya,umm no. Im Pentecostal,AofG,and I do not seek a sign. Tongues has its place but it is not the end all and be all. I'd appreciate that you don't tar everyone as "evil and unconverted" just because they believe differently about tongues than you do. smh

That's what happens when people fail to follow sound hermeneutic principles. Those who speak in tongues are generally genuine Christians under Pentecostal or Charismatic influence. They are not evil or unconverted at all.

 

[ruach]

Pity is Swaggart was preaching the truth at one time.Instead of excusing his own sin he needs to say "I sinned,I was wrong,I repent." I know a lot of people don't agree with Pentecostalism but aside from that he preached the truth at one time. King David said "my sin is ever before me". If David could humble himself God expects no less from Swaggart. I'll be interested in seeing what you post.

Some say he invented the Message of the Cross to keep his TV & Radio ministry going. If he had went under AOG restoration he would not be able to broadcast live on TV or Radio for the 2 year restoration period. No video or radio rebroadcasts of past events would have been allowed either.

Swaggert claimed the AOG was after SBN[sonlife broadcasting] and all his money. He opted to be defrocked by the AOG and never went through AOG restoration. The AOG stated just the opposite. Who really knows.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Pity is Swaggart was preaching the truth at one time.Instead of excusing his own sin he needs to say "I sinned,I was wrong,I repent." I know a lot of people don't agree with Pentecostalism but aside from that he preached the truth at one time. King David said "my sin is ever before me". If David could humble himself God expects no less from Swaggart. I'll be interested in seeing what you post.

I never followed him. What I know of him, was because my mother watched his show. I do remember popping in and saying something like...what's wrong with him..why's he always crying and carrying on like that? don't remember the answer I got but this was before his 'confession'

I'm going to tackle the info I spoke of later...dealing with supper and all that jazz...but just came on for a bit anyways

seems Swaggart never really said 'I'm guilty..I sinned' seems it went more like...well gosh darn I've been found out but since I am so important, I know God still has big plans for me.

it's tragic the number of people who seem to believe that God needs THEM...instead of they need God. anyway...later

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Pity is Swaggart was preaching the truth at one time.Instead of excusing his own sin he needs to say "I sinned,I was wrong,I repent." I know a lot of people don't agree with Pentecostalism but aside from that he preached the truth at one time. King David said "my sin is ever before me". If David could humble himself God expects no less from Swaggart. I'll be interested in seeing what you post.

there's alot that he says

it seems he believes that he has been given a new revelation about the 'sin nature'...even though Paul actually writes extensively about it, but this is what Swaggart says:

He (Paul) failed to obey no matter how hard he tried…the Apostle Paul couldn’t live for God…Paul thought, now that he had accepted Christ, by that mere fact alone he could certainly obey the Lord in every respect; but he found he couldn’t…he failed…having just been Saved, and not understanding the Cross of Christ, he tried to live for God by keeping the Commandments through his own strength and power; in his defense, no one else at that time understood the Cross…sin in his life which he doesn’t want to do, and in fact hates, but finds himself unable to stop; unfortunately, due to the fact of not understanding the Cross…”[FONT=&quot] — The Expositor’s Study Bible, Commentary on Romans Chapter 7[/FONT]

he teaches that Paul did not understand the gospel or 'the cross' and that no one else at that time did either

this is more than significant because to Swaggart the gospel, IS the cross...the cross is the gospel

he also says this:

[FONT=&quot]Speaking of what he calls his “Great Revelation,” Swaggart says, [/FONT]“That which the Lord gave me, which I believe sheds more light on that which was originally given to Paul…”[FONT=&quot] (The Evangelist, From Me to You, December 2004)[/FONT]

it seems he considers himself an Apostle greater than Paul and chosen to bring this new revelation to the world

and we also have this:

But I honestly think, in His explaining this Revelation to me, that He gave me more light than the Church has previously known…”[FONT=&quot] — [/FONT]http://www.francesandfriends.com/message-cross/

a side note:

[FONT=&quot]Furthermore, Swaggart’s Bible has Swaggart’s words in the context of scripture with his words in red and the Swaggart’s quote from his commentary as though it were scripture. Many feel this has cultic overtones.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Thirdly, Swaggart has attacked the church, calling it evil, of the devil, and in heresy


source

Swaggart in his own words here



[/FONT]

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

The Lord Jesus Christ was the propitiation for our sins not the cross.

The Lord Jesus Christ forgives sins not the cross.

The Blood of Jesus cleanses us not the cross.

The message of the cross is what the Lord Jesus Christ did there not the importance of the cross itself.


Otherwise you have God sharing His Glory with an inanimate object. Place our faith in the cross? You'll have to expound. To me it is faith in Christ and what He has done. I don't even see why someone would say it is ALL wrapped up in the cross when there is so much more to it.


I think it is just the phrase you are using that seems to leave out everything else the Lord does for us. When I see your explanation of what you say the Cross of Christ is I don't have a problem with it. Just the insinuation of the term you use I guess.

When we speak of the Cross of Christ and what was there accomplished, we aren't speaking of the wooden beam on which Jesus died. In fact, if someone found in Jerusalem the Cross on which Jesus died, and it could be proven as such, still, that wooden beam would not have any more power than a dead stick out in the road. It's not the wooden beam on which He died, although that was necessary, but it was what He there accomplished.

Sin was dealt with at the Cross of Christ and only at the Cross. So, for the Believer to have victory over sin, his Faith must be placed exclusively in Christ and the Cross. Then and only then can the Holy Spirit help him as it regards this problem that all of us face.

JSM

 

[notmyown]

When we speak of the Cross of Christ and what was there accomplished, we aren't speaking of the wooden beam on which Jesus died. In fact, if someone found in Jerusalem the Cross on which Jesus died, and it could be proven as such, still, that wooden beam would not have any more power than a dead stick out in the road. It's not the wooden beam on which He died, although that was necessary, but it was what He there accomplished.

Sin was dealt with at the Cross of Christ and only at the Cross. So, for the Believer to have victory over sin, his Faith must be placed exclusively in Christ and the Cross. Then and only then can the Holy Spirit help him as it regards this problem that all of us face.

JSM

this misses the bigger picture, you see. it's too limited. the Work of Christ also includes His sinless life and resurrection.

had He not lived a sinless life, His Righteousness could not be imputed to the believers.
had He not been raised, our hope is in vain, we are still in our sins.

we need the whole Work of Christ, not just His death. we need Him yet, interceding for us.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

When we speak of the Cross of Christ and what was there accomplished, we aren't speaking of the wooden beam on which Jesus died. In fact, if someone found in Jerusalem the Cross on which Jesus died, and it could be proven as such, still, that wooden beam would not have any more power than a dead stick out in the road. It's not the wooden beam on which He died, although that was necessary, but it was what He there accomplished.

Sin was dealt with at the Cross of Christ and only at the Cross. So, for the Believer to have victory over sin, his Faith must be placed exclusively in Christ and the Cross. Then and only then can the Holy Spirit help him as it regards this problem that all of us face.

what?

nothing about how Swaggart demeans Paul and says that Paul did not get the whole picture the way he, Swaggart, gets it now?

nothing about how Swaggart says that he alone gets the truth?

come on...believe that all you want

it does not fly with most of us

oh we sure do accept and believe ALL that Christ has done for us...Swaggart trying to somehow insert himself into it, is beyond the pale

thanks but no thanks

a person can choose to follow 'a' christ or they can follow THE Christ

done. conversation over. people can check out what Swaggart states and see if anything, what I wrote is understated

 

[notmyown]

what?

nothing about how Swaggart demeans Paul and says that Paul did not get the whole picture the way he, Swaggart, gets it now?

nothing about how Swaggart says that he alone gets the truth?

come on...believe that all you want

it does not fly with most of us

oh we sure do accept and believe ALL that Christ has done for us...Swaggart trying to somehow insert himself into it, it beyond the pale

thanks but no thanks

a person can choose to follow 'a' christ or they can follow THE Christ

done. conversation over. people can check out what Swaggart states and see if anything, what I wrote is understated

i'm sorry, i really don't know anything about the man. was just responding to that particular post.

i trust your research, though. emm... is it bad i don't want to waste time on someone you've proven wrong? lol

 

[7seasrekeyed]

i'm sorry, i really don't know anything about the man. was just responding to that particular post.

i trust your research, though. emm... is it bad i don't want to waste time on someone you've proven wrong? lol

not hard to do research on this one because the quotes are the actual words of Swaggart, sourced from his books

I wouldn't write anything negative without checking it out first...even though I have been called hateful etc etc on this site for doing so...really doesn't bother me...people can choose what they believe but they should know what it is they are choosing

having once chosen very badly myself and been led down the 'garden' path, it seems to me people would not want to be deceived

I accidentally quoted you in my reply above...sorry...I did delete it and put the right quote above it

there is such a tendency to put a man between people...rather than go right to the source...God Himself through Jesus Christ His Son by the Holy Spirit

people are following people and making idols out of them.

no one has to trust what I say...but I understand and appreciate what you said...but I always source things so folks can check it out for themselves

anyway, I guess I said enough

 

[notmyown]

i trust you, and appreciate you!

 

[7seasrekeyed]

i trust you, and appreciate you!

Thank you! very kind of you to say so!