Is sin a rejection of Christ?

[Grace777x70]

Sin is unbelief in Christ and in the finished work of Christ but instead relying on our own-self righteousness/holiness for not only salvation but for righteousness too and in being acceptable to God.

John 16:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP]concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Sin is trying to establish our own righteousness by what "we do or don't do" which is what the Law of Moses was based on.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Works-based humanistic earthly minded D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness belief systems always get the gospel and the things of the Spirit backwards and try to achieve what Christ has already done.

 

[PennEd]

If we rebel and refuse to follow Christ, do evil and reject His word, is this rejection of Jesus?

Some like to say we are saved so have accepted Christ and are safe forever.
If they sin, this has already been forgiven so is irrelevant to salvation and Christ.

But Jesus came and died so that we can walk righteously, in love and truth.

It is stated we have this promise by faith in Christ, and is not dependent on our behaviour
but on what Christ did on the cross.

The argument goes if we loose our faith, we are still ok because Christ is faithful to us.
If we walk in sin that is ok because it is already forgiven.

The problem is simple. We gain salvation because of our living faith in Christ and our
commitment to walk in His ways, obeying Him.

To reject Christ is to reject this walk and who He is.

So if we sin, we are rejecting Christ and what He is offering, because though the door
is open, and He is there willing to empower us, we are saying no, I would rather walk in
evil and go my own way.

So in the battle for our souls, let us remember Christ has brought love and the cross,
so always go to Him for blessing and strength, and you will rise up like eagles, you run
and not grow weary, you will walk and not faint.

So I call to you, believe the cross, repent and bring your issues to Him, who is willing
to forgive and work with you through them. It costs but is easy, this is the way
to life. Bow the knee and accept His forgiveness.

Even youths grow tired and weary, and young men stumble and fall;
but those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength.
They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary,
they will walk and not be faint.
Isaih 40:30-31

May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Rom 15:13

Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
Eph 3:20-21

But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Cor 15:57

I'll give you one thing Peter. You are consistent in your belief that your salvation is dependent on your walk, or work, or following Jesus.

2 years and no one has managed to make a dent in your mixed gospel message that your work is what is necessary for salvation.

For those confused by this mixed Gospel message, the truth is JESUS saves us by His blood ALONE.

 

[PeterJens]

I'll give you one thing Peter. You are consistent in your belief that your salvation is dependent on your walk, or work, or following Jesus.

2 years and no one has managed to make a dent in your mixed gospel message that your work is what is necessary for salvation.

For those confused by this mixed Gospel message, the truth is JESUS saves us by His blood ALONE.

So if a person comes to faith, declares belief in Christ but does nothing else they are saved?

It appears you are saying this. Faith with no reality is real faith that saves, because being
like Christ is nothing, irrelevant.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus.
1 John 4:16-17

Do not live in love, we do not have God.

But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.
1 John 3:2

We have the mind of Christ
1 Cor 2:16

If one does not live like Christ one does not have the mind of Christ.
If we are saved to stay in the world, this is the apostles view of this

You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4

So our walk is the difference between being a friend to God or an enemy of God.

But to your mind our walk is irrelevant. The apostles do not agree with you.

 

[PeterJens]

Sin is unbelief in Christ and in the finished work of Christ but instead relying on our own-self righteousness/holiness for not only salvation but for righteousness too and in being acceptable to God.

John 16:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP]concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Sin is trying to establish our own righteousness by what "we do or don't do" which is what the Law of Moses was based on.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Works-based humanistic earthly minded D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness belief systems always get the gospel and the things of the Spirit backwards and try to achieve what Christ has already done.

"Sin is unbelief in Christ and in the finished work of Christ"

I thought all sin was forgiven, so sin cannot be unbelief because sin is cancelled.
And all immoral behaviour, impurity, being a hypocrite, is not actually about faith
so the rebuke from James is wrong.

Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:7-10

James is addressing believers and calling them sinners. He is calling for true repentance,
true remorse, and accepting who God is. James is saying these people are hypocrites in the
way they are living, nothing to do with unbelief in Jesus, rather friendship with the world.

This demonstrates how off the message some are.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The first thing we must do is realize that when we willingly and knowingly choose sin, at that moment we are rejecting the Savior, why? because he has shown us what it right and good in His sight.
If we do sin knowingly and truly repent (turn away from it not just be sorry for it) then we are restored because we are no longer in rebellion. If we serve sin we are its slaves.(Rom.6:16)if we serve our Savior, walking in the strength he gives us to do so, not only do we become servants to His kingdom, we refuse to serve the kingdom of darkness through making provision for the flesh.
Each of us much choose, whether we believe this or not, or how many well meaning (but misguided) pastors or teachers say different , it doesn't change the reality that either we serve sin... or we serve Him, there is no in between.

then

1. We are under law not under grace
2. We claim we can sin unknowingly, thus excusing our sin.

Ariel was right.. What kind of hope is this, but in self.

Sorry, I am not going to excuse my sin and say it was just an oopsie, and it is ok,, I did not willingly do it, it was an accident.

SMH!

 

[Grace777x70]

John 16:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

[SUP]9 [/SUP]concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;


Acts 10:43 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."


Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you

[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I disagree with this. Who are we to put a timetable on how God's Spirit deals with sin in individuals?

It may take years but it does not mean the person is not a Christian or not saved.

over and over again I read people saying REALLY saved or REAL Christians and some of those are the worst offenders when it comes to displaying love for the other believers on this site. (I am not referring to you in particular when I say this samuel but we know it goes on daily)

I believe God looks at the individual's heart, as scripture defines it, and He does not paint with the broad brush so many here use to define who is and who is not saved.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. II Peter 3:9

people are so quick to condemn and point out sin as if it gives relief to themself somehow or lets them off the 'hook' because they fancy someone else's sin worse than theirs (even though sin is sin and all of it falls short of God's holiness)

by the way, what do you mean by REALLY DO SOMETHING SINFUL?

I sinned against my father for years, Dod not even acknowledge it as sin, Until I was out on my own and had my own kids..

I was never disowned because it took me decades to realise my sin and confess it as sin..

the workers sound desperate

 

[PeterJens]

I'll give you one thing Peter. You are consistent in your belief that your salvation is dependent on your walk, or work, or following Jesus.

2 years and no one has managed to make a dent in your mixed gospel message that your work is what is necessary for salvation.

For those confused by this mixed Gospel message, the truth is JESUS saves us by His blood ALONE.

I hope I have demonstrated we are made into the people of God, pure, holy, blameless
with the aim to walk like Jesus.

Now if ones aim is just to accept the facts around Jesus and nothing else, then the world
could be saved, Jesus just needs a good pr campaign, everyone puts on the tee shirt and
we are all off to paradise.

It is like the idea the reason people are not believers is because they cannot see God.
Look at Israel coming out of Egypt. It made no difference to many of them, they wanted
a good time whoever gave it to them, and that is all that mattered. If control and dominance
was the issue with God, He would appear now and declare who is without any delay.

But then He would have to judge the world and anyone not in the Kingdom are lost, when some
still can be brought in. But it takes time and careful planning, He knows who and when, Praise
the Lord.

 

[PeterJens]

When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment: about sin, because people do not believe in me; about righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
John 16:8-11

The world needs to be convicted about sin, because if they were right about what sin
is they would have believed Christ, but they have not, showing they are wrong about
sin and need conviction.

Believers who are walking in the law of Christ do not need conviction of sin because they
are not sinning. And those who deny sin is relevant to believers as well as unbelievers
are not reading scripture. Paul and James rebuke believers for their sin and their sinful
behaviour. If this was not important or already forgiven, they would not expect them
to repent.

Paul is so grieved he worries the corinthians will not repent, but rejoices when he hears
they have repented and got right with God. But then people who invent their own theology
and only read in what they want to see are blind to the obvious before their eyes.

 

[Grace777x70]

Sinning including not believing in what Christ has done is the reason why believers are walking after the flesh.

They are trying to achieve what Christ has already done for them by their own self-efforts and thus are sinning because they think they can establish their own righteousness by what they do or don't do. That is the law of Moses for righteousness and salvation.

Sin is trying to establish our own righteousness by what "we do or don't do" which is what the Law of Moses was based on.

It is called "works-righteousness and not faith righteousness which is the gospel.

Romans 10:2-4 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.


Unfortunately works-based humanistic earthly minded D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness belief systems always get the gospel and the things of the Spirit backwards and try to achieve what Christ has already done.

They are actually denying the work of Christ and nullifying the grace of God needed in our lives to operate like it was meant to and actually bear His fruit in our lives.

They see the "descriptions" of what the Christian life looks like in the NT writings and then try to "dictate" these fruit in order to create and maintain acceptance and righteousness and salvation. This is the complete opposite of the true Christian life which is only found in Christ Himself.

 

[stonesoffire]

Rom 5:17　 For if, through one man, death ruled because of that man's offense, how much more will those who receive such overflowing grace and the gift of righteousness rule in life because of one man, Jesus the Messiah!
　
Rom 5:18　 Consequently, just as one offense resulted in condemnation for everyone, so one act of righteousness results in justification and life for everyone.　


Rom 5:19　 For just as through one man's disobedience many people were made sinners, so also through one man's obedience many people will be made righteous.　


Rom 5:20　 Now the Law crept in so that the offense would increase. But where sin increased, grace increased even more,　


Rom 5:21　 so that, just as sin ruled by bringing death, so also grace might rule by bringing justification that results in eternal life through Jesus the Messiah, our Lord.　

 

[stonesoffire]

It's always been about the blood of sacrifice that takes away sin. For life is in the blood. The blood of Jesus is the bloodline of Father Himself. Understand it?

NO death in His blood. We have death in ours and can see it by looking at a microscope and testings.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's always been about the blood of sacrifice that takes away sin. For life is in the blood. The blood of Jesus is the bloodline of Father Himself. Understand it?

NO death in His blood. We have death in ours and can see it by looking at a microscope and testings.

it is interesting they want us to follow law. Yet they do not understand the law

 

[stonesoffire]

Law brought death to Adam...when he disobeyed.

Exactly true eternally grateful!

 

[PeterJens]

Obvious sin
Sexual immorality, lying, stealing, violence against others, bearing false witness, dishonouring ones
parents, coveting anothers possessions, swearing, dishonouring God, idolatry or greed.

Someone dwelling in these things for over a year, their faith has serious problems and is probably
not real.

Smoking, or dressing in a particular way, or spending time in odd locations is probably something
they need to grow through but is not sin.

Now it would be worrying if a believer did not approach someone in this state and try and help
them, because they would be in serious trouble.

If someone is suggesting getting alongside another is unhelpful and recognising that things have
gone wrong, is wrong, then they need to suggest what they would do instead. To judge people
who lovingly want to help sinners, is judgemental and problematic. I have noticed a tendancy to
suggest this idea as a kind of slander and criticism without explanation which is not helpful or
being honest.

DIY righteousness with the Law of Christ is not possible. Only in love and Spirit can we walk
in this. The agenda is always one of condemnation of believers who hold any moral stand as
if morality is evil and hypocritical. The law of Christ exercised in love is Gods will.

The argument continues because general words can be interpreted anyway you like and
people can judgmental or condemning about irrelevant issues that people know about,
when this is not part of the theological points being made. It is a typical trick of some
presenters of arguments. But the Lord will always shine a light on them.

 

[stonesoffire]

Adam brings what was spiritual down to the natural. Death reigned in men until Jesus.

Jesus brings grace ....by grace through faith.

Grace is greater that all natural...grace is Spirit. The divine influence upon the heart with it's reflection in the life including gratitude. Simply...the power of Holy Spirit reigning in our being...being in Him. Bearing fruit of our being...in Him.

WE are no longer slaves to anything...that was law. We are now Sons of house...free.

Peter, I pray your spiritual eyes open. Grace will lead us on to maturity. The law cannot for imperfection will result.

 

[PeterJens]

Adam brings what was spiritual down to the natural. Death reigned in men until Jesus.

Jesus brings grace ....by grace through faith.

Grace is greater that all natural...grace is Spirit. The divine influence upon the heart with it's reflection in the life including gratitude. Simply...the power of Holy Spirit reigning in our being...being in Him. Bearing fruit of our being...in Him.

WE are no longer slaves to anything...that was law. We are now Sons of house...free.

Peter, I pray your spiritual eyes open. Grace will lead us on to maturity. The law cannot for imperfection will result.

Death did not stop with Jesus.
Jesus brought the true atoning sacrifice for which all other sacrifices pointed towards.

A righteous faith walk with God saves us.
This is not a burden if we let God purify us and walk in obedience to His words.

All around His people walk and live like this, because the Holy Spirit speaks to their hearts.
They do not parade their life before others, but their hearts testify what the living God
is completing in them. Faith and belief knowing this can be achieved is part of knowing
the power of the cross. Unbelief in the power of the cross can stop God completing His
work in us. Do you believe God can cleanse you, pure and Holy? Was the cross not enough?

Take your faith and learn to walk in the Spirit and listen when your heart goes astray and
bring this always before the Lord.

How easy is it to offend our King and miss the whole show? Very easy, because our hearts
come from sinners who sin in thought, word and deed, it is second nature to them.

You would not believe how hard it is to know Christs ways when to look up from the page
other things distract and entice us away. I wonder how many know this reality of the Kingdom
of Light and the Kingdom of Darkness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Adam brings what was spiritual down to the natural. Death reigned in men until Jesus.

Jesus brings grace ....by grace through faith.

Grace is greater that all natural...grace is Spirit. The divine influence upon the heart with it's reflection in the life including gratitude. Simply...the power of Holy Spirit reigning in our being...being in Him. Bearing fruit of our being...in Him.

WE are no longer slaves to anything...that was law. We are now Sons of house...free.

Peter, I pray your spiritual eyes open. Grace will lead us on to maturity. The law cannot for imperfection will result.

The law also showed us the penalty for sin, and the payment ( the perfect lamb being slaughtered)

They miss that part..

They think because they say they are sorry God will let it go and say it is ok. When God does not do that. The lamb has to be slain or there is no forgiveness.

 

[PeterJens]

The law also showed us the penalty for sin, and the payment ( the perfect lamb being slaughtered)

They miss that part..

They think because they say they are sorry God will let it go and say it is ok. When God does not do that. The lamb has to be slain or there is no forgiveness.

Really do not understand this at all.
It makes no sense with the cross and Jesus?????

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Some like to say we are saved so have accepted Christ and are safe forever.
If they sin, this has already been forgiven so is irrelevant to salvation and Christ

Peter, who (specifically) says this? You keep making these blanket statements about "some like to say" but never identify the "some" who say what you believe "some" have said.

It is frustrating because I do not believe anyone on CC has said it's okay to sin, or that it's irrelevant when we sin.

If you would identify the "some", then those people can clarify what they have said so you understand what they mean.

The argument goes if we loose our faith, we are still ok because Christ is faithful to us.
If we walk in sin that is ok because it is already forgiven.

You've read Luke 15?

There are several scenarios given by our Lord Jesus Christ which indicate that He will go after that which is lost. Does He not do the same now, in our day and time? You think He just leaves the believer floundering in unbelief? No! He goes and searches for that one lost believer, finds him or her, takes him/her on His shoulders and carries them back to the fold.

In the parable of the Forgiving Father, the Father is waiting for the son to return. The Father saw the son when he was yet a great way off (Luke 15:20). The Father was watching and waiting for His son to return. This is an excellent portrayal of our own Heavenly Father Who watches carefully over us. Does it bless His heart when we wander? No! But He waits for us to turn and runs to us, just like the father in the parable.

The problem is simple. We gain salvation because of our living faith in Christ and our
commitment to walk in His ways, obeying Him.

Please read and understand salvation.

Our "commitment to walk in His ways, obeying Him", helps us to grow up and mature spiritually in Him after we have been born again, but our salvation hinges upon the following:

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Confess (agree with God's Word) that Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead.

Then you are saved, born again, child of God. At that point you are born again of incorruptible seed just like 1 Peter 1:23 says Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The corruptible seed is the seed of your mother and father. The incorruptible seed is God's seed. We are born again and that incorruptible seed cannot be removed.

If the corruptible seed of your mother and father cannot be removed from you, why would you ever believe or think that God's incorruptible seed can be removed?