Is sin a rejection of Christ?

[PeterJens]

But you come accross as saying because we see sin as a reality (which it is) you seem to say, that they then think it's ok to sin and do not want to walk righteously.

Now if I am wrong here then please whoever it be let me know.

Bill - this is an important point.

Sin is evil. It is something we do not want to do because it harms others and ourselves
and leads to death. Would anyone go into their house a take a good drink of poison.

Now some stand up and say, you liars we all swig the poison, I am just more honest than
you guys and say I am swigging it all the time.

In truth I do not know what others do, or how they behave or what their issues are until
they tell me. So all I can talk about is where I am. I am not swigging poison everyday,
or have issues on my conscience. So I wonder what is actually being done in a sinful way
that is continually causing failure and can be talk about it.

So the list produced was,
lying, stealing, and anger.

These are not minor sins, but major issues. For some anger, in terms of rage and
wanting to murder people is bad.

And they are issues that we should be dealing with all the time.
So again I am stumped at this continual condemnation drip feed.

The truth is most people are not open enough with anyone or talk at a personal
level to get a better perspective.

But Christ and the cross is the most powerful force in the world and none of these
things are enough to defeat us. On the contrary we have the victory in Christ.

So walk in the Spirit and not the flesh, and know His resurrection power in your life.

So Bill, it does seem people are being lazy and excusing sin over nothing, which makes
no sense.

And a typical confusion is saying I am lying in my observations.
As I explained talking about Jesus and sin are the issues of our faith.

We are set free from sin by the cross and Jesus, there is no greater good news to
declare to the world than this, except if in reality it is not true in ones own life.

 

[PeterJens]

Repent peter. Stop calling everyone out

Here we are again. Let me focus again.

Jesus has brought us the victory. Let us take our sins to Christ and work them through.

In theory this call is the same as others here, I am saying repent of sin, turn from it,
walk in righteousness, confess to God and he will forgive you.

This is between you and God.
Praise the Lord for His forgiveness and grace to forgive.

If you walk in openness and love in Christ your heart will be warmed by a call to righteous living.

Only those in sin with a pricked conscience have anything to oppose such a message.

By the fruit of their hearts, the words they bring do they declare their walk. I need say no more.
God is our King, the Lord whom we follow.

 

[PeterJens]

Where is the deception in peoples hearts?

We all commit sins, we just admit the big ones.
You live just like me, my failure is your failure.
Everyone outside my group and liars and deceivers.

We all sin at some point in our lives and are born separate from God in rebellion which
is sin it its real sense.

In Christ how we walk is dependent on us walking in the Spirit.
All we can say is when others obviously sin, and our own personal walk.

If someone confesses the sin all the time and no one can walk otherwise this is just open
rebellion. If this is true, no one can have fellowship with you, you will be rejected from
all fellowships and groups as an unbeliever, because sin is worthy of judgement and hell.

So the issues we have need resolving and as the apostles said

We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.
1 John 5:18

Now if there is some addictive behaviour or issue that needs resolving, seek
help, find a counsellor, work through the layers of who you are and what is
really going on.

ptsd - Some soldiers bury hurts and trauma and end up pulling girls, sleeping
around, being addicted to destructive behaviour because of deep hurt and unresolved
crippling problems, that eat away at them. But until the symtoms are taken
seriously as symtoms of something serious, nothing changes, so sin is just who
we are, Jesus is happy with that and accepts our failure and weakness.

That is not faith, that is a lack of love and unbelief.
And this reality will not change because it is reality, I will just search out
different ways to express it.

 

[PeterJens]

Instead of being like Peter and judging sin, You would be like Jesus and the disciples and win people to Christ by not judging them, Then helping them grow.

Here is the spiritual lie.
Sin is not the problem, you can be a sinner knowing Jesus and grow and sin will
just fade away.

This is a faith that has removed sin from salvation.
It is not longer about Jesus and the cross but about saying we are going to heaven
no matter what. It is Jesus is the worldly way, without any righteousness or truth.

It is a kind of universalism which says we are all loved and accepted so just give
everyone a big hug and all the problems will go away.

I would say clearly for the years I have known the guys here, nothing changes or
their insights, just the desire to dominate and condemn those who talk about
righteousness and repenting of sin, ie following Jesus.

 

[BillG]

So Bill, it does seem people are being lazy and excusing sin over nothing, which makes
no sense.

PJ, unless you know of someone personally or it is blatant in any post here you cannot make that judgement.

The truth is most people are not open enough with anyone or talk at a personal level to get a better perspective

Hmm let me you ask you.
Why would that be the case?

 

[blessedjohn80]

I am not saying we should wilfully go on sinning, but YOU are the one saying we are rejecting God when we sin.
If your children disobey the rules, do you say "You are not my child again until you kneel down and beg forgiveness"?

This thread already ended with this post from wwjd_Kilden.
Really good post kilden.
Peter couldn't answer and just ignored it then just started rambling on to other things.
The rest of the posts are just taking up peoples time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This thread already ended with this post from wwjd_Kilden.
Really good post kilden.
Peter couldn't answer and just ignored it then just started rambling on to other things.
The rest of the posts are just taking up peoples time.

Thats about normal ops though..lol

 

[PeterJens]

I am not saying we should wilfully go on sinning, but YOU are the one saying we are rejecting God when we sin.
If your children disobey the rules, do you say "You are not my child again until you kneel down and beg forgiveness"?

In a true analysis lets take this to its logical conclusion.
If sin is unresolved and not forgiven what happens? Hell.

So if we are humans stay in unresolved sin, we will go to Hell.

Now is anyone denying this statement of faith from scripture? No
Is anyone saying this is unjust? No

So as believers who have our sins forgiven and we refuse to repent
and get right with God, where are we going? Hell.

Now some will say this is unjust and God would never do this.

But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
Ezek 18:24

So God does to this.

While we have faith in Christ we have a grace period to resolve our sin.
If we loose our faith, we loose this grace. There are no promises for those without faith or
belief, though many want to claim if you believed at some point this counts.

for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
1 Thess 5:2-3

Too many people do not know their God, and assume too much.
Where is the fear? Maybe they do not know God at all?

 

[Willie-T]

In a true analysis lets take this to its logical conclusion.
If sin is unresolved and not forgiven what happens? Hell.

So if we are humans stay in unresolved sin, we will go to Hell.

Now is anyone denying this statement of faith from scripture? No
Is anyone saying this is unjust? No

So as believers who have our sins forgiven and we refuse to repent
and get right with God, where are we going? Hell.

Now some will say this is unjust and God would never do this.

But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die.
Ezek 18:24

So God does to this.

While we have faith in Christ we have a grace period to resolve our sin.
If we loose our faith, we loose this grace. There are no promises for those without faith or
belief, though many want to claim if you believed at some point this counts.

for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
1 Thess 5:2-3

Too many people do not know their God, and assume too much.
Where is the fear? Maybe they do not know God at all?

I kind of doubt you even realize you were just describing both the Goose and the Gander. LOL

 

[garee]

Where is the deception in peoples hearts?
We all commit sins, we just admit the big ones.
You live just like me, my failure is your failure.
Everyone outside my group and liars and deceivers.

He is our hiding place of refuge. Our hearts (conscience)are simply a personal judgment hall... it either excuses us or accuses us. Prisons are full of men who consciences have excused themselves. God is greater than our conscience and knows every thing even the intents of our hearts.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.As the partridge sitteth on eggs, and hatcheth them not; so he that getteth riches, and not by right, shall leave them in the midst of his days, and at his end shall be a fool.A glorious high throne from the beginning is the place of our sanctuary., the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the LORD, the fountain of living waters. Jer 17:9

The phrase;“Shall be written in the earth”(ground)I beleive shows the attitude of the self righteous Pharisees in a parallel passage below. They which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience,which I believe was pricked, reminding them of the Jeremiah account, possibly why the elder ones left first having more experience in the scriptures.

They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. Joh 8:4-9

The question would be what you will do with your secret sin since all men have at least one in respect to the eternal wage and is why we are called sinners. We would not want to make God the liar


Psalms 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.

Psalms 90:8 Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.

 

[PeterJens]

PJ, unless you know of someone personally or it is blatant in any post here you cannot make that judgement.

I wonder why after years of interacting the sins people describe are not major issues.
Not stealing, not lying, not getting angry are not difficult things to do.

I am wondering what is the real sinful behaviour people are condemning themselves over.
This is just continual drip feeding of defeat.

The brainwashing is everyone is pretending to be pure and blameless, it is just a covering,
underneath is evil. this quote sums up the ethic perfectly

Sin has no power over me, But you hide it, So sin has power over you, if not, you would not be so judgmental.

So Bill, please tell me why believers of 40+ years are still overcome with simple
sinful behaviour?

I suspect this is about something else and spiritual realities and emotions that
are much more difficult to be honest about.

 

[PeterJens]

I kind of doubt you even realize you were just describing both the Goose and the Gander. LOL

Willie - You feel the OT is dead and the NT is alive, well after the cross.

God does not change or His principles.

 

[Grace777x70]

When we can answer why someone that says we are to walk righteously and in purity of heart and then slanders others in the body of Christ, why they call them names like satanic, heretic, lovers of sinning, haters of God's word and haters of those that walk righteously...and other garbage like that.

When we can answer that question of why this is done - then we will know the answer to this question - " why believers of 40+ years are still overcome with simple sinful behavior?".

 

[BillG]

So Bill, please tell me why believers of 40+ years are still overcome with simple
sinful behaviour?

I suspect this is about something else and spiritual realities and emotions that

are much more difficult to be honest about.

As a generalisation I cannot answer that. Given my experience it goes deeper than saying "bible says now go do (I am not saying the bible is irrelevant here)

Deeper issues need to be dealt with, understanding who we are and what we are in Christ, how God feels about us.
past issues that hurt and bind and so on.

But unless we walk with people in a way that they come to trust us we will never know.

 

[PeterJens]

A new faith

We know Christ and he accepts us as sinners and knows as sinners we need Him.
Victory is what Christ bought, we will never obtain it except in heaven.

What is the antidote to this heresy?

Start listing the sins you commit and find them in scripture.
Repent of them, confess them and go to Christ for forgiveness.

You will soon discover you are a chosen child of God, and actually the Lord
has done a good work in you and you can walk in love.

Why believe the lie of the evil one, you cannot resolve sin in Christ and walk
in His ways. The defeated and compromised will always preach this because
for them they have no other way.

Read the history and testimony of the greatest believers and preachers of the faith.
They found holiness, purity and faith, a walk of grace and power which we to can
aspire to. Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

As a generalisation I cannot answer that. Given my experience it goes deeper than saying "bible says now go do (I am not saying the bible is irrelevant here)

Deeper issues need to be dealt with, understanding who we are and what we are in Christ, how God feels about us.
past issues that hurt and bind and so on.

But unless we walk with people in a way that they come to trust us we will never know.

Bill, I agree 100%. What I do know is Christ overcoming in my life, and in testimony after
testimony because people sought His face. All I am calling for is faith and desire to take
up the cross and walk.

I started talking about love, loving God and loving each other. It is still the core issue
of our people, our life blood and desire and mission.

I wonder why these things would be disputed in the fellowship of believers?

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Sin is no light
matter of a stray thought or a desire, it is quantifiable, confessable, real.

So what are these sins being done?

Peter,

My heart's desire is to abide in my Lord Jesus Christ 24/7. Am I successful 24/7? No. There are times when I am drawn away from Him. I take my eyes off of Him and I find that I have left that safe abode found only in Him.

You say "Sin is no light matter of a stray thought or a desire, it is quantifiable, confessable, real."

When I have left my safe abode the result is the "stray thought or desire" which you refer to as a "light matter". That momentary lapse when I find myself no longer drawing on Him results in having works of the flesh exhibited in my life as opposed to His fruit.

So, yes, to me the "light matter of a stray thought or a desire" is something that is just as "quantifiable, confessable, and real" as whatever sin you believe I am excusing.

 

[stonesoffire]

Psa 103:1　 Davidic. Bless the LORD, My soul, and all that is within me, bless his holy name.　
Psa 103:2　 Bless the LORD, My soul, and never forget any of his benefits:
　
Psa 103:3　 He continues to forgive all your sins, he continues to heal all your diseases,
　
Psa 103:4　 he continues to redeem your life from the Pit, and he continually surrounds you with gracious love and compassion.　


Psa 103:5　 He keeps satisfying you with good things, and he keeps renewing your youth like the eagle's.　


Psa 103:6　 The LORD continually does what is right, executing justice for all who are being oppressed.

The goodness of the Lord leadeth men to repent. Causes us to love Him with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength. Love is the keeping power of God.

But, we must be born again. The entrance of His Word giveth light. Born of water and Spirit to enter His Kingdom.

Our life is the life of overcoming the things that come against us...and the power is of His Holy Spirit.

His plans are thoughts of good, and not of evil. If we judge ourselves...allow Holy Spirit to shine the light within us...we need not be judged or chastened.

But, if we are chastened...it is for our salvation...or our good.

Think of His goodness and He draws close to us.. 　

 

[PeterJens]

Peter,

My heart's desire is to abide in my Lord Jesus Christ 24/7. Am I successful 24/7? No. There are times when I am drawn away from Him. I take my eyes off of Him and I find that I have left that safe abode found only in Him.

You say "Sin is no light matter of a stray thought or a desire, it is quantifiable, confessable, real."

When I have left my safe abode the result is the "stray thought or desire" which you refer to as a "light matter". That momentary lapse when I find myself no longer drawing on Him results in having works of the flesh exhibited in my life as opposed to His fruit.

So, yes, to me the "light matter of a stray thought or a desire" is something that is just as "quantifiable, confessable, and real" as whatever sin you believe I am excusing.

Now you are equating worship or being in the presence of God and a thought that
takes you away from this as sin.

Now have you ever thought that maybe you are being too harsh on yourself and
this is not biblical, but just part of who you are?

What actually is this stray thought?

Let me make a quick point here. Our thoughts are like a film on play non-stop.
Random things will appear, sometimes intentionally, and sometimes just part
of our brains processing information and ideas in the background. They are
part of our humanity, but not sinful or anything we can resolve but ignore,
or appropriately park.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Now you are equating worship or being in the presence of God and a thought that
takes you away from this as sin.

Now have you ever thought that maybe you are being too harsh on yourself and
this is not biblical, but just part of who you are?

What actually is this stray thought?

Let me make a quick point here. Our thoughts are like a film on play non-stop.
Random things will appear, sometimes intentionally, and sometimes just part
of our brains processing information and ideas in the background. They are
part of our humanity, but not sinful or anything we can resolve but ignore,
or appropriately park.

Abiding in Jesus is a way of life. It is not a sometimes act of worship. Jesus died so that we could live in this whole new manner of life.

And, no, when I leave Him and then turn back to Him I do not think I'm being too harsh on myself. I tell Him I'm sorry I left and thank Him for taking me back. And you know what? He never tells me "Go away you sinner. I've had it with you!" He always welcomes me back with open arms.

And, yes, I realize this is the "human condition" we all live with as shown in Rom 7. And I do not "ignore or appropriately park" the behavior. I try to go back and see if I can pinpoint whatever it was that caused me to leave so I can be more aware of the triggering event. If we can get to the point where we recognize these things that draw us away from Him, then we can ask God for strength to guard against that.