IS SMOKING A SIN WORTHY OF DISFELLOWSHIPMENT?

[Seekingfamily]

I understand why also many are repulsed by it, not just health, it straight out stinks odor wise. Even being a smoker, I would clean homes where people smoked more, and it would gag me...so I can imagine what a non smoker must smell!

 

[Maka]

if God didnt convict me to quit smoking.... this thread might just convince me to start back up

Thankful I never smoked, my mom would of killed me!

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

if God didnt convict me to quit smoking.... this thread might just convince me to start back up

If God did so, it would be foolish of you to smoke again.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

If God did so, it would be foolish of you to smoke again.

i would go as far to say

even if he didnt


it would be foolish to start again

 

[pckts]

I forgot to say that it's nice to meet you pckts!

Jesus taught extensively on this topic. Remember where He said you have heard it said that you must not murder but I say to you, if you are angry at your brother, you have ALREADY murdered him?

He said anger in your heart toward your brother is murder. This means that even if it doesn't turn into shooting him or bludgeoning him, the murder has already occurred. Do you believe Him?

I don't agree anger is the same as murder, but I do believe it is a sin. If we hold the belief anger is murdering already occurring we lower the penalty of murder and greatly increase any impulses of anger.

How does this apply to chemical vices? Is the urge to drink or having one drink the same as becoming a habitual drunkard?

It is not what you put into your body that defiles you. It is what comes out of your heart that defiles you.

Some may not agree with me, but I have at least based my understanding on what God has said.

Or are you saying that it is not my intoxication that is a sin, but the result of my intoxication? I can convince myself I am a better person when I am high, does this mean I should smoke rather than abstain? I'm not trying to be provocative, I'm genuinely confused.

 

[Tabitha4thelord]

Thankful I never smoked, my mom would of killed me!

Im thankful you never smoked too
Its one of the hardest things to quit

 

[pckts]

if God didnt convict me to quit smoking.... this thread might just convince me to start back up

Yeah it's starting to have that effect on me. unfortunately, God didn't convince me to quit the green, my employment situation did.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Let each man follow his own conscience and the leading of the Spirit at all times.
In the past, He has had certain groups of men never cut their hair or never take a drink. Then there were other men that He didn't.

Always follow your conscience and the nudges of the Spirit.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Yeah it's starting to have that effect on me.

you know what God wants from you more than anyone in this thread if you seek him in truth brother


i said that for a reason

 

[pckts]

Let each man follow his own conscience and the leading of the Spirit at all times.
In the past, He has had certain groups of men never cut their hair or never take a drink. Then there were other men that He didn't.

Always follow your conscience and the nudges of the Spirit.

We are (I am) too weak and stupid of the flesh to follow what our conscience and Spirit tells us.

 

[pckts]

you know what God wants from you more than anyone in this thread of you seek him in truth brother


i said that for a reason

Short term suffering for long term gains, rather than what I want for my impulses.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I don't agree anger is the same as murder, but I do believe it is a sin. If we hold the belief anger is murdering already occurring we lower the penalty of murder and greatly increase any impulses of anger.

How does this apply to chemical vices? Is the urge to drink or having one drink the same as becoming a habitual drunkard?



Or are you saying that it is not my intoxication that is a sin, but the result of my intoxication? I can convince myself I am a better person when I am high, does this mean I should smoke rather than abstain? I'm not trying to be provocative, I'm genuinely confused.

Start with the words of our Lord. He said that if you have anger in your heart at your brother, you have already murdered him.
God judges the intents and thoughts of a mans heart. Men judge outwardly. You have a choice to make. Are men correct and truthful or is God truthful?

Jesus said it is to have already murdered.
You say you don't believe that.
Should we believe Him or not?

 

[royalscot]

When I became a Christian at age 22, I was a smoker. I smoked about 2.5 packs of cigarettes a day.

My mother was an Armstrongite (Worldwide Church of God), so I had exposure to the group. They were cultic, but I didn't understand core Christianity back then. So, I counseled with the pastor to attend services (WCG didn't allow strangers off the street to attend their services, probably so they wouldn't get rebuked for their heresies).

Anyways, I was told by the pastor that I needed to quit smoking in order to attend services. At that time, I was desperate for a relationship with God so I quit smoking cold turkey. It worked out well for me, so I thank God that I was delivered from the habit. However, I don't think that's the right approach to dealing with someone who is struggling with an issue, let alone a seeker who hasn't even initiated a relationship with God yet. It's like telling someone they need to clean their life up BEFORE they can come to God.

Well, Armstrongites were a bunch of kooks so I don't expect anything but kooky behavior from them.

However, I have learned that other groups also deal very strictly with tobacco use, including the Seventh Day Adventists. For instance, one fellow I know was placed in an inferior status due to his smoking habit (I can't remember the specifics but he was allowed to attend but was restricted). A SDA pastor told me that he delivers ultimatums to smokers and if they don't quit, they are disfellowshipped.

So, my question is this...1. Do you think smoking is a sin, and if so, on what grounds? 2. If it is a sin, how should it be dealt with? Should disfellowshipment be used as a punishment? 3. If so, do you think disfellowshipment should also be applied to obese individuals who are engaged in eating too much? 4. What about sins of the heart, like pride, envy, lust, etcetera? Should we disfellowship people over sins of the heart? And, if so, how many people would be in church?

Please note that I'm not revealing my position on whether smoking is a sin. I just want to watch the conversation.

when did death,ask you if you smoke, its wrote on the grave stone of of some famious guy, told you, i was ill.

 

[Meggido]

Smoking, drinking, and drug use is a sin because we turn to the world instead of God for relief from our problems and feelings of discomfort.

We all are born in different places in life as well as different bodies, with their own suffering and pain embedded into them. Some may have no desire to smoke because "life is great" and they can seek comfort elsewhere in God or worldly desires. Is someone born into tough circumstances that can't turn to friends, family, or worldly comforts judged harshly for lighting up a cigarette?

IDK, I hope not, but I've seen a clear mind is what God wants, and abusing substances clouds the mind at the very least.

A rich man and a smoker can both reject God in favor of something else to fill the void and carry that weight. Is the smoker judged more severely because he physically pollutes the temple? Perhaps, but you can clean the temple in 30 days or so.

Here are some scripture concerning this issue:

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil
prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

1 Peter 4:7
The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled
and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.

1 Thessalonians 5:6
So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober.

Galatians 5:21
Envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you
before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Peter 1:13
Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your
hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Proverbs 20:1
Wine is a mocker, strong drink a brawler, and whoever is led astray by it is not wise.

Romans 12:3
For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.

1 Timothy 3:2
Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,

Ephesians 5:18
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,

Titus 2:2
Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness.

Titus 2:6
Likewise, urge the younger men to be self-controlled.

1 Timothy 3:2-3
Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

1 Timothy 3:11
Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.

2 Timothy 4:5
As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

1 Corinthians 5:11
But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.

Isaiah 5:11
Woe to those who rise early in the morning, that they may run after
strong drink, who tarry late into the evening as wine inflames them!

Ephesians 6:11
Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

Romans 13:13
Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness,
not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy.

Titus 2:12
Training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and
to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 Thessalonians 5:8
But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the
breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.

1 Corinthians 8:9
But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak.

1 Corinthians 6:10
Nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Proverbs 23:31
Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly.

1 Timothy 3:3
Not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

1 Thessalonians 5:6-8
So then let us not sleep, as others do, but let us keep awake and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, are drunk at night. But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation.

1 Peter 4:3
For the time that is past suffices for doing what the Gentiles want to do, living in sensuality, passions, drunkenness, orgies, drinking parties, and lawless idolatry.

Romans 14:21
It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.

Titus 2:11-12
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age,

Hosea 4:11
Whoredom, wine, and new wine, which take away the understanding.

Proverbs 23:20-21
Be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard
and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.
Ephesians 4:27
And give no opportunity to the devil.

I was sharing the word to a group of recovering addicts [drugs, alcohol, sex, porn, gluttony] in a Christian ministry a few weeks ago and said this....

If it is easier to light a cigarette or take a toke of the vape and it keeps the needle out your arm, your clothes on, the plate pushed back and the booze from being drank, light em up....


Think abut this real hard and then come back and tell us if any form of addiction is really a sin or just bondage?

 

[pckts]

Start with the words of our Lord. He said that if you have anger in your heart at your brother, you have already murdered him.
God judges the intents and thoughts of a mans heart. Men judge outwardly. You have a choice to make. Are men correct and truthful or is God truthful?

Jesus said it is to have already murdered.
You say you don't believe that.
Should we believe Him or not?

So having feelings of murder and controlling them from materializing is the same as murdering for our soul?

So my impulses to fall into addiction is the same as falling into addiction?

This is a great way to subside the impulses and reject them, but it lowers acting on them to the same as having desires to act upon them.

These desires are momentary, actions are permanent.

 

[Meggido]

I have often wished that I could hear a man speak on the spirit of the words in the OT that run through - if a priest is carrying a piece of holy meat in his robe and brushes up against a dead body, is he defiled and so on and so on. I have known that the spirit of the words is for us but I've never quite understood how...

Study out Samson very carefully and you will have your answer here...

 

[tourist]

I was sharing the word to a group of recovering addicts [drugs, alcohol, sex, porn, gluttony] in a Christian ministry a few weeks ago and said this....

If it is easier to light a cigarette or take a toke of the vape and it keeps the needle out your arm, your clothes on, the plate pushed back and the booze from being drank, light em up....


Think abut this real hard and then come back and tell us if any form of addiction is really a sin or just bondage?

I believe that it is bondage.

 

[royalscot]

the fact your still looking at sin, shows, why death will kill you.

.3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

having an illness is not a sin, when were you, justified by law.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

We are suppose to love GOD and love our neighbor.Would a person that loves their neighbor offend their neighbor with cigarette smoke or should the person that Is offended be stronger?

GOD died on the cross on our behalf,and rose again,we ought to love our brother.So then I won't say that the person offending their neighbor should be kicked out but If they are really saved,I would think they wouldn't want to smoke.

 

[QuickenedByHim]

Smoking, drinking, and drug use is a sin because we turn to the world instead of God for relief from our problems and feelings of discomfort.

I don't smoke for "relief from problems or feelings of discomfort".

I smoke because it's enjoyable and I do so with a thankful heart, just as I give thanks to God for anything else.

Most people idolize their cigarettes, in this case they're sinning, but it's not the act of smoking that's sinful in this case, it's the idolatry in their heart that defiles their temple.

Jesus makes this very clear in Matthew 15:11-20 and Mark 7:14-23, where Christ Himself says that there is nothing in this world outside of a mans body that can defile him by entering into his body. People try to say that he was only speaking about certain things but JESUS says THERE IS NOTHING FROM WITHOUT A MAN IN THIS WORLD THAT BY ENTERING HIM THAT CAN DEFILE HIM! Nothing at all. WHAT DEFILES A MAN IS BORN, CREATED WITHIN HIS HEART.

"That which comes out of a man, that deflies the man. For FROM WITHIN,OUT OF THE HEART OF MEN, PROCEED evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.) All these evil things come from within, and defile the man." -Mark 7:20-23