IS SMOKING A SIN WORTHY OF DISFELLOWSHIPMENT?

[RedeemedGift]

I don't believe smoking is a sin. I do believe being addicted to smoking, just like being uncontrollably addicted to anything else, is a sin. I don't see lighting up a cigar every once in a while as something that could be called sinful. Unwise, yes. We are called exercise self-control, it's one of the fruits of the Spirit.

 

[followjesus]

james 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

romans 14:10-12 "But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

sin and judgement come through Knowledge and the conscience or " How much we know" because we have pledged a clear Conscience before God, a personal walk with the spirit is where we find conviction for our sins. if I have pledged a clear conscience, then if i am convicted By The spirit for smoking and i myself Know its not right to smoke.... it then becomes sinful because it is sinful in our consciousness. its impossible for one believer to judge another because of the presence of the Spirit in Our Lives, our judge, Our shepherd and priest is with us and we are each called to walk according to what we Know which cannot be Hidden from Gods Spirit, He Knows what we Know and that is our measure.

really a consistant principle in the Gospel, and part of what allows " do not Judge one another" to be a foundational principle. Our judgement is between Jesus, God the Father, and us each one.

Luke 12:And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

if were convicted what were doing is sin, its impossible to walk with a clear and upright conscience before God, thus repentance is the goal....we keep a clear conscience by repentance, recognition, accepting responsability for what Has been given to us, by prayer daily, through forgiving Others, through many things of faith. blessed are the merciful for they will receive mercy. agaon another thing God is aware of by His spirit is our grudges and unforgiveness.

 

[Gabriel2020]

If smoking was a sin ,Jesus would have said so, people's concerns are focused on the wrong things.

 

[OneFaith]

When I became a Christian at age 22, I was a smoker. I smoked about 2.5 packs of cigarettes a day.

My mother was an Armstrongite (Worldwide Church of God), so I had exposure to the group. They were cultic, but I didn't understand core Christianity back then. So, I counseled with the pastor to attend services (WCG didn't allow strangers off the street to attend their services, probably so they wouldn't get rebuked for their heresies).

Anyways, I was told by the pastor that I needed to quit smoking in order to attend services. At that time, I was desperate for a relationship with God so I quit smoking cold turkey. It worked out well for me, so I thank God that I was delivered from the habit. However, I don't think that's the right approach to dealing with someone who is struggling with an issue, let alone a seeker who hasn't even initiated a relationship with God yet. It's like telling someone they need to clean their life up BEFORE they can come to God.

Well, Armstrongites were a bunch of kooks so I don't expect anything but kooky behavior from them.

However, I have learned that other groups also deal very strictly with tobacco use, including the Seventh Day Adventists. For instance, one fellow I know was placed in an inferior status due to his smoking habit (I can't remember the specifics but he was allowed to attend but was restricted). A SDA pastor told me that he delivers ultimatums to smokers and if they don't quit, they are disfellowshipped.

So, my question is this...1. Do you think smoking is a sin, and if so, on what grounds? 2. If it is a sin, how should it be dealt with? Should disfellowshipment be used as a punishment? 3. If so, do you think disfellowshipment should also be applied to obese individuals who are engaged in eating too much? 4. What about sins of the heart, like pride, envy, lust, etcetera? Should we disfellowship people over sins of the heart? And, if so, how many people would be in church?

Please note that I'm not revealing my position on whether smoking is a sin. I just want to watch the conversation.

1 Corinthians 5:11 says "But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother her or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

If you smoked something that would be intoxicating, to where you couldn't drive- that would be the same as being drunk. God calls us to be sober-minded. The sins listed in the verse above are reasons for disfellowship. But sins that are not like the ones listed are not reasons for disfellowship. If that were the case, no one would be at church- for we all fall short.

Church is for those trying to grow in Christ, but someone who lives in sin is not even trying to live like Christ. But just because you are not disfellowshiped does not mean you are right with God if you are living in sin without trying to quit.

 

[royalscot]

I respect this....immensely....and agree with you....

I have to say this though and it it may appear to be a double standard but it is not....

I would never let you be on my leadership team as longed as you smoked. I do not let drinkers or smokers or single people living with boyfriend/girlfriend in worship/teaching/preaching/leadership positions...

Romans 14 comes into play here and if you are called to preach/teach or lead worship you could cause someone to stumble who sees you are able to enjoy that cigarette/vape with thanksgiving, but they cannot...

Christian character still maters for those called into full time ministry offices...I have found this is a non issue with truly called and sent ministry people...they really have no desire to drink, smoke or fornicate anyway....

would you agree that christian bible interpretation is important.
18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor.Galatians 2

if i rebuild what was tore down , i prove myself a law breaker. and by doing this , you have been cut off. and are trying to put jesus, back on the cross. paul gave a warning, gal 5.

.4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace Galatians 5


when we don t take the full book of romans in account , who appointed you a leader in the first place.

14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law

people in the ministry already understand

7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.Ephesians 2


why do you say unmerited faviour, do you understand these or this word. and ware did you read it.

 

[royalscot]

saying i do not like smokers or drinks or drug takers, is not a sin, it is an opinion with no bible facts, to your prejudice ,do you take pills from the doctor, to prolong life. who deemed the doctors pills to be correct. so would that come under modern law of the land. when did i need a bible to understand this logic or reasoning. if your using you free will, to do what you want, with no bible proof. then that the joy of correct interpretation of the bible.

 

[Magenta]

Still drinking wine, hold the applause

Smoking is a big one, though, hard to let go of and mostly a psychological addiction which many may find hard to believe because the body is quite invested in the habit, too, and cravings can topple many good intentions. Kudos to you

 

[OneFaith]

saying i do not like smokers or drinks or drug takers, is not a sin, it is an opinion with no bible facts, to your prejudice ,do you take pills from the doctor, to prolong life. who deemed the doctors pills to be correct. so would that come under modern law of the land.

Smoking is not medicine. It is harmful to the body (destroys the temple of God), and causes death. One lady had her child taken away from her because she always smoked with her daughter in the car, and her daughter developed lung cancer. Secondhand smoke is dangerous to others and yourself- and therefore sinful. Can you imagine Jesus lighting up a cigar? I cannot.

The laws of the land only apply if they don't go against God's laws. And God's law says your body is the temple of God- not to use it for sin, and smoking is sin.

 

[Gabriel2020]

If smoking is a sin, then why do some of those that walk in darkness is against it.? And they don't even know God.. Don't touch this, Don't touch that. The will of man, not God., but to each his own. sure smoke stinks to a degree, so does farts.

 

[Magenta]

If smoking is a sin, then why do some of those that walk in darkness is against it.?

People who do not believe in God are against all manner of sinful things. It does not mean they necessarily think of them as sins, though, just not good, not healthy, not right, not moral, not legal etc etc, for instance, you do not have to believe in God to be against rape or pedophilia.

 

[royalscot]

Smoking is not medicine. It is harmful to the body (destroys the temple of God), and causes death. One lady had her child taken away from her because she always smoked with her daughter in the car, and her daughter developed lung cancer. Secondhand smoke is dangerous to others and yourself- and therefore sinful. Can you imagine Jesus lighting up a cigar? I cannot.

The laws of the land only apply if they don't go against God's laws. And God's law says your body is the temple of God- not to use it for sin, and smoking is sin.

your own logic is proven wrong, how can it be a law of the land, if you do not stay in that land. when can you follow this law without a temple of stone, to take an animal to the temple for forgiveness.

second point that you missed

14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law

is death harmful,

 

[loveme1]

When I became a Christian at age 22, I was a smoker. I smoked about 2.5 packs of cigarettes a day.

My mother was an Armstrongite (Worldwide Church of God), so I had exposure to the group. They were cultic, but I didn't understand core Christianity back then. So, I counseled with the pastor to attend services (WCG didn't allow strangers off the street to attend their services, probably so they wouldn't get rebuked for their heresies).

Anyways, I was told by the pastor that I needed to quit smoking in order to attend services. At that time, I was desperate for a relationship with God so I quit smoking cold turkey. It worked out well for me, so I thank God that I was delivered from the habit. However, I don't think that's the right approach to dealing with someone who is struggling with an issue, let alone a seeker who hasn't even initiated a relationship with God yet. It's like telling someone they need to clean their life up BEFORE they can come to God.

Well, Armstrongites were a bunch of kooks so I don't expect anything but kooky behavior from them.

However, I have learned that other groups also deal very strictly with tobacco use, including the Seventh Day Adventists. For instance, one fellow I know was placed in an inferior status due to his smoking habit (I can't remember the specifics but he was allowed to attend but was restricted). A SDA pastor told me that he delivers ultimatums to smokers and if they don't quit, they are disfellowshipped.

So, my question is this...1. Do you think smoking is a sin, and if so, on what grounds? 2. If it is a sin, how should it be dealt with? Should disfellowshipment be used as a punishment? 3. If so, do you think disfellowshipment should also be applied to obese individuals who are engaged in eating too much? 4. What about sins of the heart, like pride, envy, lust, etcetera? Should we disfellowship people over sins of the heart? And, if so, how many people would be in church?

Please note that I'm not revealing my position on whether smoking is a sin. I just want to watch the conversation.

Matthew 9

10And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. 11And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? 12But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. 13But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.



This came to mind.

 

[followjesus]

1 Corinthians 5:11 says "But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother her or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

If you smoked something that would be intoxicating, to where you couldn't drive- that would be the same as being drunk. God calls us to be sober-minded. The sins listed in the verse above are reasons for disfellowship. But sins that are not like the ones listed are not reasons for disfellowship. If that were the case, no one would be at church- for we all fall short.

Church is for those trying to grow in Christ, but someone who lives in sin is not even trying to live like Christ. But just because you are not disfellowshiped does not mean you are right with God if you are living in sin without trying to quit.

were told the body is the temple of the Holy Ghost and not to destroy it also, smoking definately destroy lungs and can cause cancer and severly shorten Life on earth. I cant imagine God is Happy with the many things we do that destroy our Bodies. the addictions we seek after, the ways we treat our fellow man, especially those of the Least among society.

All that being said i spent years destroying myself with drugs, alcohol wild living and when I decided to change my ways, He Loved me like i never did a wrong. so im not judging smokers, but i cant honestly see God thinking its a good thing in any way. as your post there says its all about repenting as we go along God allows our repentance he shows us the things we need to stop and what we need to do, and then allows us time and gives strength. He is Very Patient, at Least thats been My Own experience.

Thank God for His provision and Patience with the worst of us or some of us would just be lost without Hope if He ever Gave up on us, Gotta Just press on forgetting Yesterday and press toward the Goal and Bear the cross each day, and God Will work Out Our Judgement when that Time comes

 

[joefizz]

there's that HUGE word again "if",it's not an "if" that smoking is indeed a sin,want an example? Aaron's sons they offered strange fire to God and burnt up by God so this =SIN big time,or another fact noone has mentioned,the ten commandments which includes "thou shalt not kill" well each time you smoke a cigarette or drink alcohol or abuse drugs,guess what you are killing your self which is not only a mere sin but a commandment you break,and yes we are under grace so yeah the commandments won't kill us when we break them but you are still"sinning",or do you believe that God appreciates you destroying the life he gave you or better yet do you believe that Jesus appreciates you killing yourselves after he took away your sins thereby restoring your lives?
hmmmmmmm somehow I believe...NO!'Neither God nor Jesus condone or delight in anyone smoking,drinking alcohol,or abusing drugs!
for what use are the idle and drunkards to God?
If you decide to submit to your "desires" not "addiction" then how are you serving God,seeing as that you have blinded yourselves to that this is wrong,and thus"if the blind leadeth the blind surely they shall fall into the ditch together"all so called addiction is really is simply you "wanting" to keep hurting yourself,and "wanting" to be idle,and did I mention "wanting"????
once again these are all "wants" not "needs" and each one "leads" you to working "iniquity" and wasting the lives that God gave you and Jesus restored,"greed troubles thine household" go ahead say it again that these "things" you indulge in aren't "SINS" I'm listening and so is God!!!!

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Years and Years ago I used to be addicted to drugs, alcohol and fornicated all over the place and I smoked all the time....
the hardest one to quit were the smokes...

Getting saved doe snot make on automatically just want to stop doing these things.....I would preach a sermon in a Methodist church , shake hands at the back door and then sneak out back light one up , swallow a breath mint just in time for lunch to be served...one day I finally turned it over to the Holy Spirit and said, Holy Spirit, I really have no desire for smoking anymore....make it so gross to me that I will never smoke again...the next morning , I had my cup of Joe, double sweet and lit one up and almost gagged....Never smoked again and its been many years....since then...taught me what covenant agreement was all about....

smoking and abusive drinking and drugging ends when you want it to....and we should not call i=smoking sin for people who might be having such a bad year that it is not the best day to try to stop smoking....

We have found in addiction recovery ministry, smoking is the last one to go...and it should be....and its ok if they do....give them a smoking area away from the kiddos, and self righteous....

I understand what you are saying,that all reborn Christians will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure and the reborn Christian that loves GOD and their neighbor will not want to offend their neighbor and will think about their neighbors well being and not just their own well being.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Still drinking wine, hold the applause

keep beholding the WORD of GOD and as you are renewing your mind to the new creation you have become,knowing how much GOD loves you, the WORD of GOD will bring you out of It.

 

[lastofall]

"Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth [corrupts, contaminates with sin] a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man." (Matthew 15:11)

What comes out of our heart is what will corrupts us: mind altering pharmaceuticals taken for the wrong reason (for example) is sin, or the drinking of alcohol for the purpose of feeling the effect thereof is sin, or such like things, because such is brought about by the intent of the heart. As for cigarettes, before the late 70's smoking was common everywhere and was of none effect to anyone, even in court houses of even many Church leader would smoke occasionally. But after the secular world sought to make it a villain that is when suddenly Churches began to go along with secular societies trend, and eventually referred to cigarette smoking as sin, so that they could be a friend of the world. The smoking of a cigarette does not defile a person, because it enters not into their heart!

 

[mj007]

Sin is something that misses the mark, and takes you out of alignment with God.

The question is, is it a sin to self-harm? Of course it is.

Is smoking self-harm? Of course it is.

Are drugs mind-altering? Yes. If something is mind-altering does it affect the heart? Yes. That counts for prescription drugs too.

Ps. the word defile means to damage the purity or appearance of; mar or spoil. Do cigarettes do this? Yes. Do most prescription drugs have side-effects? Yes, sadly they do.

I'll tell you the greatest evil of smoking, and just how mind-altering it is, having spent a lot of time analysing vices people use. It will have smokers make-up absolutely any fabrication to justify it being good, making them happy (forget people who don't smoke), and that they smoke because they enjoy it and addiction isn't a factor.

Jesus didn't mention anything about ecstacy or cocaine, and the Bible says "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man", so does that mean it's ok? No, this is fabricating justification.

Smokers have more troubled souls and hearts than most people. Maybe that coincidentally is life, and that moment they thought screw it I will smoke that first cigarette that makes me feel ill and then smoke another one until the addiction tells me I enjoy it. It is those beginning thoughts of insanity into a highly addictive substance, that should tell you whether something is good or not. If you're a smoker, remember the reasons you started, they were not pure...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Smoking in and of itself is not a sin, however addiction is idolatry, which is obviously sinful.
It should at least be dealt with by not permitting it on church property.
It's totally disrespectful when people are out in the church parking lot smoking between functions.
People wouldn't tolerate a porn addict "reading" their material, or a drunk engaging in a breaktime snoot
while waiting for services to begin, but some smokers seem to hold their fellow congregants in such low
regard that they won't go two hours on a Sunday without making us watch them pollute themselves.
Disfellowship for smokers, no, however known idolaters should not hold church offices.

I don't think you ought to call something most people hate and wish they could quit doing to be idolatry.
There's not a lot of mercy in your post.
I guess a church could make the rule that there be no smoking in the parking lot...the whole world has done it so why not the church? In fact, I guess an argument could be made that the church should have been the one to lead the charge to take away permissible places to smoke instead of just following the world on it.
I don't know. I just know I have compassion on people with addictions because they are in misery most of the time. I wish I could help them in some way when I see them. I've met some of them who their eyes light up when you talk about Jesus. They seem more receptive to Him than a lot of people without addictions I've spoken with. And it's painful to watch them struggle and then fall back down and then you have no answer for why God hasn't taken it from them when they put their request before Him.

 

[mj007]

In regards to the 'vote', did any non-smokers who have never smoked vote for 'smoking is not a sin'? I was just wondering why you think that, or whether it is just smokers who voted this way.