IS SMOKING A SIN WORTHY OF DISFELLOWSHIPMENT?

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WHICH OPTION BEST REFLECTS YOUR POSITION ON WHETHER SMOKING IS A SIN?

  • Smoking is a sin, and unrepentant smokers should be disfellowshipped

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Smoking is a sin, but unrepentant smokers should not be disfellowshipped

    Votes: 20 48.8%
  • Smoking is not a sin

    Votes: 21 51.2%

  • Total voters
    41

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,322
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I started my daily smoking "habit" when I was fifteen, and I smoked about a pack a day for twenty four years, until I first got clean and sober at age 39. I had some previous experience with the 12 step program before that, so a few weeks into being clean, even though they tell you not to make any major decisions right away (quitting smoking would qualify), I wanted to quit smoking (taking suggestions from others is not my strong suit), and I decided I would use the 3rd step to help.

Step three is about making a decision to turn your will and you life over to the care of God as you understand Him. I really didn't have much of an understanding about God at that time, not being a believer, but I wanted to believe others when they told me that working the steps would help me with my problems. So essentially I decided to test the program, and especially step three and God, to see if it would work with quitting smoking. Also, getting clean followed closely on the heels of crying out to God, to help me escape the cycle of abuse I was caught in. I was not looking to get clean and sober but that is what happened when I turned in desperation to this God I did not believe in for help.

Some people will say that a craving will pass fairly quickly, but can be deceptive. Testing God this way, the cravings at first would come and go pretty regularly. I prayed my way through them, silently repeating the serenity prayer, and that did help. But after a while, maybe days, maybe a week, a craving would come and it would last for hours. I prayed for hours, and it would eventually pass. Within a few weeks the cravings passed completely, and then I was finally free of the addiction and cravings, Hooray! And thank you, God :)

However, seven years after quitting that time, I started again in 2001. Bad decision, and it led to a full blown relapse
a year later (drugs and alcohol again after being clean for over eight years <99 and a half months>). I was hooked pretty quickly, and smoked for another 13 years, maybe 12 and a half. At the end of that I could barely breathe any more, and I knew I had to quit, but I was really afraid of facing the kind of struggle and pain the withdrawals from that first time had proven to be, despite all my prayers, which had helped, after all.

I used the patch for a year and a half, and managed to cut down to ten cigarettes a day during some of that time, especially toward the end. I purchased other products as well but never really ended up using them, and eventually gave them away. The patch and reduced smoking it was for me, as I went about telling people I was trying to quit.

When I first started going to AA I was not willing to quit drinking, but kept going to meetings because people talked about the realities of life, the pain, the suffering, the challenges, failures, and feelings of inadequacy etc, and I needed to hear all that, because it was saving my life, it was a place to identify with others who could articulate their life's truths, and I kept going back, not even being able to hear the solution.

I used to go to a meeting and then go have a beer or two or six on the way home :p That was in the days when you could still smoke indoors. Then I got clean and sober, and was going to both AA and NA meetings, but never once, in the first eighteen months of being clean and sober, identified myself as being an addict or an alcoholic. I would say I was powerless over my addiction or powerless over alcohol (that is actually what step one says in each fellowship, respectively).

However, during that time, I was coming up against myself again and again and seeing how much of an addict I really was in so many areas of my life, again, highlighting for me that drugs and alcohol had not been the problem, but my inability to live in a way that reflected any semblance of sanity. LOL. I was obsessive and compulsive, and I had little experience at setting boundaries with others, let alone even knowing what healthy boundaries were. Working the steps really helped me come to grips with the reality of who I was even as I wondered what it was I was recovering from.

You know, I found out that I was recovering from living a life running from God in rebellion and defiance, and that all the pain I had experienced in my life was essentially because I was not living by His principles. All this, the last couple of paragraphs, to say that it suddenly dawned on me that I was telling people I was trying to quit smoking when in reality what I was doing was trying to control something I knew full well I was powerless over, and that I had really acknowledged thousands of times over the last twenty years that I was incapable of managing on my own.

When the enormity of the insanity of that hit me, it hit me hard. Suddenly I remembered not wanting to give it to God, because secretly I did not want to quit smoking. I liked smoking even though it was killing me
. I liked smoking even though it was stinky, even though it was making me broke, even though I had to be anti social to do it, even though it took precious minutes and hours out of my day every single day. I liked it and I did not really want to quit, and if I gave it to God He would take it from me. I did not really want it gone so I was trying to do it on my own. I was really lying to myself. I was not trying to quit smoking at all! I was trying to find the magic number I could smoke every day without having it kill me.

That was when I became willing to surrender it completely to God. When I gave it to God and really let go of it, I was able to stop, and I stopped smoking and did not experience any cravings or withdrawals at all, absolutely none! It seemed like a miracle. It has been just over three years since I last quit smoking :)
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I think when one inhales or even takes the smoke into your mouth without inhaling, it does eventually have to leave and come out of you :rolleyes:

I was going to also say that WINE does the same thing.......goes in RED and comes out............... HAHAHAHHAHAH yeah I know.......... ;)
 
Nov 22, 2015
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So sugar, more than 2300 mm of salt, processed meat, white flour, MSG, nitrates and nitrites, and processed-cheese-foods are also sin?[/QUOTE]

And if it's not organic...that means double the time in purgatory and you go to hell for "defiling the temple of God".....:rolleyes:

( and even in saying that - I do eat a lot of organic food )
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Wow. This is a real sore point for me. I once sat under a Pastor that was getting reports from other memebers that my wife and I smoked. So he announced one Sunday that he had some serious matter to talk about. He said that it had been reported to him that some of the members were smokers and did so right out in Public! He then said "So let me be clear to ALL of you, our brothers and sisters that smoke are not going to Hell, but they may get to Heaven before you do". Yes, Christians can be thier worst enemies. I also attended a church that had an amazing praise and worship band. The drummer was a young kid that was there every Sunday ready to rock. Sat right up front. One Sunday he was not present. Real let down, he was very good. Come to find out, the music director for the church found out that he played in bars on the weekends with a band. He was told to stop with his band or he could not play in church. So he quit. Hello, here was a young man hearing the Word of God every Sunday for about a year, and he is told he is not worthy to play in our church? I was really upset. I quit that church because of some other matters I did not agree with as well as that one. I am close friends with the Pastor now, he is retired and we fish together. I did not carry a grudge but I did act out of principle when I quit the church. Why do we get into that self rightous bubble? Jesus ate with and taught the dregs of society. He did not shun them. We run off those we are so concerned with getting save with our hypacritical attitudes.
A sermon well-lived. Thank you.
 
May 12, 2017
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Do you think it reflects bad character to smoke?
I will disclaim, I am a former smoker....I smoked for many years....I do not judge smokers, drinkers, fornicators, homosexuals, gluttons, strifers, mockers, gossipers, etc.

No...I do not think it reflects bad character to smoke......Personally, I think smoking reflects very poor physical and spiritual decision making ability......The health concerns alone should keep you from it and spiritually speaking if youa e in full time ministry it should not be a needful thing....this is my opinion and I do not

All that said, I do draw a line in the sand and have a ministry rule that you cannot and will not smoke, drink, fornicate, engage in homosexual sex or any form of same sex attraction with physical sex or not, be a glutton, spread discord or strife, be prideful and mocking, spread gossip, if you have been called, separated, chosen, refined, approved, validated, sent and anointed into Full time Ministry by God and the Holy Spirit.

Even if you are as spiritually mature as quicknedbyhim has shown he is about smoking, I still do not allow anyone on my leadership team, elders, teachers, worship leaders, musicians, and even certain volunteer positions[Altar/prayer team, children/student workers/office volunteers] engage in any of the above things.


There are 3 major reasons for this.

First & foremost is adhering to all of Romans 14 and not causing our weaker brothers and sisters to stumble...and not letting something they think is OK for them[smoking] to be evil spoken off by the self-righteous gang every church has...Causing baby Christians to stumble has serious implications as Jesus spoke about in Matt 18.1-10

Second,
Folks that are called, separated, chosen, refined, approved, validated, sent and anointed into Full time Ministry by God and the Holy Spirit are held to a higher scrutiny and standard. Like I said on another post....this is usually a complete non-issue for truly called people...

Lastly,
It sounds rather silly, but it keep's the scribes, lawyers and self-righteous pharisees from causing division and strife in the house. We do not have many like this, but we have a few that are as dug into their religious positions & traditions as some on this board are.

I cannot legislate their private lives and I will not. I do not make them sign a promise or vow, I treat them like the called and spiritually mature men and women of God they are. Likewise if one of the few scribes, lawyers or self-righteous pharisees bring me a social media pic of anyone drinking or smoking on the team. I do not take action, but rather re-direct the scribes, lawyers and self-righteous pharisees to handle according to Matt 18....that usually stops the witch hunts....this is almost a non-issue though, because like I said..for the truly called this is s non-issue.
 
Feb 7, 2015
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We have ash trays at each entrance to our building so members and visitors can finish their cigarettes.
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Wow. This is a real sore point for me. I once sat under a Pastor that was getting reports from other memebers that my wife and I smoked. So he announced one Sunday that he had some serious matter to talk about. He said that it had been reported to him that some of the members were smokers and did so right out in Public! He then said "So let me be clear to ALL of you, our brothers and sisters that smoke are not going to Hell, but they may get to Heaven before you do". Yes, Christians can be thier worst enemies. I also attended a church that had an amazing praise and worship band. The drummer was a young kid that was there every Sunday ready to rock. Sat right up front. One Sunday he was not present. Real let down, he was very good. Come to find out, the music director for the church found out that he played in bars on the weekends with a band. He was told to stop with his band or he could not play in church. So he quit. Hello, here was a young man hearing the Word of God every Sunday for about a year, and he is told he is not worthy to play in our church? I was really upset. I quit that church because of some other matters I did not agree with as well as that one. I am close friends with the Pastor now, he is retired and we fish together. I did not carry a grudge but I did act out of principle when I quit the church. Why do we get into that self rightous bubble? Jesus ate with and taught the dregs of society. He did not shun them. We run off those we are so concerned with getting save with our hypacritical attitudes.
I agree..

I can remember the church I went to after I met the Lord by myself kneeling by my bed one night as a young teenager. The pastor ( Pentecostal denomination ) would go on and on about smoking and I heard the Spirit of God within me say "What is the difference between smoking yourself to death and eating yourself to death?"

I was shocked because the pastor was as big as a house. The hypocrisy of this type preaching was screaming at me.

 
May 12, 2017
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Smoking in and of itself is not a sin, however addiction is idolatry, which is obviously sinful.
It should at least be dealt with by not permitting it on church property.
It's totally disrespectful when people are out in the church parking lot smoking between functions.
People wouldn't tolerate a porn addict "reading" their material, or a drunk engaging in a breaktime snoot
while waiting for services to begin, but some smokers seem to hold their fellow congregants in such low
regard that they won't go two hours on a Sunday without making us watch them pollute themselves.
Disfellowship for smokers, no, however known idolaters should not hold church offices.
Do you apply this same laser like focus on the big financial givers that engage in gossip and lie on everyone and everything? The gluttons at the church fellowship? the overly spiritual that cause strife and discord among ministry leaders, the prideful that won't lift a finger for the cause if they are not in charge....

I will take smokers in my parking lot any day over the above "Real Christians"
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,322
26,350
113
We have ash trays at each entrance to our building so members and visitors can finish their cigarettes.
Smokers are notorious litter bugs, using the world as their ash tray :rolleyes::p
 
Dec 12, 2013
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Smokers are notorious litter bugs, using the world as their ash tray :rolleyes::p
AS a MARINE.....from the 80's I might add....I rip my mom and brother all the time to pick up their butts HAHAHAH
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
AS a MARINE.....from the 80's I might add....I rip my mom and brother all the time to pick up their butts HAHAHAH
i used to put my butts back in my pack

i used my fingers to put out my cigarettes
 
C

CaptainGoat

Guest
If it was a sin then quite a few famous evangelists living in the last 50 to 150 years never made it.
I would say those in churches who confuse addictions with sins and bring those with addictions into condemnation to be very much themselves sinning as it is not their job to condemn and neither is it their job to drive anyone away from a church who does not reach their standards.

Drinking. Well, it is sinful if one drinks to get drunk.

I dont have addictions myself as to be honest, addictions are costly so it isn't a good idea. I know the doctor wanted me to take medication for life and I refused as I dont want my body to adjust to be dependent on something which the supply may not be guaranteed in future years.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
When I became a Christian at age 22, I was a smoker. I smoked about 2.5 packs of cigarettes a day.

My mother was an Armstrongite (Worldwide Church of God), so I had exposure to the group. They were cultic, but I didn't understand core Christianity back then. So, I counseled with the pastor to attend services (WCG didn't allow strangers off the street to attend their services, probably so they wouldn't get rebuked for their heresies).

Anyways, I was told by the pastor that I needed to quit smoking in order to attend services. At that time, I was desperate for a relationship with God so I quit smoking cold turkey. It worked out well for me, so I thank God that I was delivered from the habit. However, I don't think that's the right approach to dealing with someone who is struggling with an issue, let alone a seeker who hasn't even initiated a relationship with God yet. It's like telling someone they need to clean their life up BEFORE they can come to God.

Well, Armstrongites were a bunch of kooks so I don't expect anything but kooky behavior from them.

However, I have learned that other groups also deal very strictly with tobacco use, including the Seventh Day Adventists. For instance, one fellow I know was placed in an inferior status due to his smoking habit (I can't remember the specifics but he was allowed to attend but was restricted). A SDA pastor told me that he delivers ultimatums to smokers and if they don't quit, they are disfellowshipped.

So, my question is this...1. Do you think smoking is a sin, and if so, on what grounds? 2. If it is a sin, how should it be dealt with? Should disfellowshipment be used as a punishment? 3. If so, do you think disfellowshipment should also be applied to obese individuals who are engaged in eating too much? 4. What about sins of the heart, like pride, envy, lust, etcetera? Should we disfellowship people over sins of the heart? And, if so, how many people would be in church?

Please note that I'm not revealing my position on whether smoking is a sin. I just want to watch the conversation.


No,I dont believe a person should be "defellowshipped" over smoking. Smoking is an addiction and an issue that people need help with and prayer and support to overcome. If one is disfellowshipped for smoking then they should be disfellowshipped for gossiping,a favorite church sin.

We had a friend of the family,a wonderful Christian man,who had an issue with alcohol. He ran a local restaurant and it was very popular,especially with Christians in the area.He served no alcohol there and it was a favorite place for people to go on Sundays. Long story short he was having issues with the restaurant and when it would get bad he'd drive off to the next city and get fall down drunk.His wife would call and my father would go and find him and bring him home. None of us mentioned it to anyone,we never judged him for it. He was a Christian that was struggling. Every time he would feel horrible and be so upset that he had fallen again. He died a few years ago and there is no doubt in my mind that he is in heaven today. God looks on the heart.



 
Dec 12, 2013
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We have ash trays at each entrance to our building so members and visitors can finish their cigarettes.
Isn't it nice to be set free from religious Pharisee(ism) and the legalistic religious Lawyers.......
 
Feb 7, 2015
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Along the same lines...............

Once on Mount Athos there was a monk who lived in Karyes. He drank and got drunk every day and was the cause of scandal to the pilgrims. Eventually he died and this relieved some of the faithful who went on to tell Elder Paisios that they were delighted that this huge problem was finally solved.

Father Paisios answered them that he knew about the death of the monk, after seeing the entire battalion of angels who came to collect his soul. The pilgrims were amazed and some protested and tried to explain to the Elder of whom they were talking about, thinking that the Elder did not understand.

Elder Paisios explained to them: "This particular monk was born in Asia Minor, shortly before the destruction by the Turks when they gathered all the boys. So as not to take him from their parents, they would take him with them to the reaping, and so he wouldn't cry, they just put raki into his milk in order for him to sleep. Therefore he grew up as an alcoholic. There he found an elder and said to him that he was an alcoholic. The elder told him to do prostrations and prayers every night and beg the Panagia to help him to reduce by one the glasses he drank.

After a year he managed with struggle and repentance to make the 20 glasses he drank into 19 glasses. The struggle continued over the years and he reached 2-3 glasses, with which he would still get drunk."

The world for years saw an alcoholic monk who scandalized the pilgrims, but God saw a fighter who fought a long struggle to reduce his passion.

Without knowing what each one is trying to do what he wants to do, what right do we have to judge his effort?

Source: Translated by John Sanidopoulos
 
Nov 22, 2015
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I will disclaim, I am a former smoker....I smoked for many years....I do not judge smokers, drinkers, fornicators, homosexuals, gluttons, strifers, mockers, gossipers, etc.

No...I do not think it reflects bad character to smoke......Personally, I think smoking reflects very poor physical and spiritual decision making ability......The health concerns alone should keep you from it and spiritually speaking if youa e in full time ministry it should not be a needful thing....this is my opinion and I do not

All that said, I do draw a line in the sand and have a ministry rule that you cannot and will not smoke, drink, fornicate, engage in homosexual sex or any form of same sex attraction with physical sex or not, be a glutton, spread discord or strife, be prideful and mocking, spread gossip, if you have been called, separated, chosen, refined, approved, validated, sent and anointed into Full time Ministry by God and the Holy Spirit.

Even if you are as spiritually mature as quicknedbyhim has shown he is about smoking, I still do not allow anyone on my leadership team, elders, teachers, worship leaders, musicians, and even certain volunteer positions[Altar/prayer team, children/student workers/office volunteers] engage in any of the above things.


There are 3 major reasons for this.

First & foremost is adhering to all of Romans 14 and not causing our weaker brothers and sisters to stumble...and not letting something they think is OK for them[smoking] to be evil spoken off by the self-righteous gang every church has...Causing baby Christians to stumble has serious implications as Jesus spoke about in Matt 18.1-10

Second,
Folks that are called, separated, chosen, refined, approved, validated, sent and anointed into Full time Ministry by God and the Holy Spirit are held to a higher scrutiny and standard. Like I said on another post....this is usually a complete non-issue for truly called people...

Lastly,
It sounds rather silly, but it keep's the scribes, lawyers and self-righteous pharisees from causing division and strife in the house. We do not have many like this, but we have a few that are as dug into their religious positions & traditions as some on this board are.

I cannot legislate their private lives and I will not. I do not make them sign a promise or vow, I treat them like the called and spiritually mature men and women of God they are. Likewise if one of the few scribes, lawyers or self-righteous pharisees bring me a social media pic of anyone drinking or smoking on the team. I do not take action, but rather re-direct the scribes, lawyers and self-righteous pharisees to handle according to Matt 18....that usually stops the witch hunts....this is almost a non-issue though, because like I said..for the truly called this is s non-issue.
Well said!

The life of Christ if He is preached correctly and that we too died with Him on the cross and rose with Him in His resurrection will always bring true life to all of us and in the Lord's timing as we rely on Him.

We have this treasure ( Christ Himself in us ) in this earthen vessel so that the excellency of the power may be of God and not of ourselves.

We do participate in this with Him "For it is God who is at work in us both to will ( He gives us the "want to" ) and to do ( He gives us the ability ) of His good pleasure".
 
C

CaptainGoat

Guest
Generally a church which does not allow smokers is very spiritually immature as it should be there for the sheep and not stand against the sheep entering into the pasture!
 
May 12, 2017
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Addiction is idolatry.
Addicted smokers hold their cigarettes in a place of high importance and are, in fact, enslaved by them.
Smoking their cigarettes is ritualistic and they do it, figuratively speaking, religiously.
Cigarettes cost a lot of money, and that money becomes an offering to themselves.
An addict who is "miserable" chose the misery, and they can choose to stop it.

No, I don't have compassion on them, I hold them in contempt.
Especially when I see them buying food with an EBT card and they're obviously smokers.
And especially especially ones whose children are forced to breath their second-hand poison,
and are sent to school in rags that smell like they're stored in an ashtray because their low-life parents
don't have money to buy them new clothes because they wasted it on cigarettes and whatever else.
I have compassion on their children, who are victims of abuse IMO.

And then there's the people that won't leave that garbage at home for two
hours on a Sunday, and feel the need to smoke up in the church parking lot.
I can protect my kids from most evils of the world by not frequenting
crap-holes in real life or on TV, but you'd think church would be the
one place I could take them without having them to see debauchery.
You and many in the USA church today have the idiocy to actually think church is for the well and righteous...when we begin to realize the church is for the sick and the sinner, we might see God react to that level of faith...

What you want is a country club of us 4 and no more, not a church....stay away from us for sure...my goodness you might get a pinky finger dirty hangin out with those we church with....