Jehovah's Witnesses vs Old Time Religion

ukok102nak · Oct 2, 2015

Praise be to God
my brethren :happy:
Which remind us the verses that he read
From this chapter of the holy scripture

John: 20. 23. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
24. Now Thomas, one of the twelve, who is called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25. The other disciples therefore said to him: We have seen the Lord. But he said to them: Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26. And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them. Jesus cometh, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said: Peace be to you.
27. Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.
28. Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God.
29. Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.
30. Many other signs also did Jesus in the sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book.
31. But these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God: and that believing, you may have life in his name.

By the way, isn't it the blood of Mary is the blood that runs through the veins of
Our lord god the only begotten son Jesus Christ our saviour when the that time comes . ...

:ty:

PeterJens · Oct 2, 2015

ukok102nak said:

The answer about Jesus and his blood, is Marys blood and Jesus's blood never mixed and are not the same.
In the womb, the placenta passes food and nutrients from the mothers blood, across a membrane into the babies blood, but they never mix. There are problems if the baby has a different type of immune system to the mother, resus positive to resus negative.

There is therefore no special bond because of literal blood, but possibly of dna. We do not know how much of Jesus was from Mary, a firtilized egg and how much she was a surrogate. But thankfully this is not important, what we do know is Jesus was human.

ukok102nak · Oct 2, 2015

PeterJens said:

I'm so greatful for your honesty my brethren :happy:

one of our brethren asked this question before because he believed that
The blood type of person has something to do with his/her parents :hrmm:

There was a story that he told us that when a person has a blood type O
and mix it with it to a person whose blood type is AB
the blood of that person will be poisoned!
is this for real?

Perhaps the blood of christ jesus has nothing to do with
JOSEPH husband of MARY
Therefore if someone has a blood type of A, B OR AB then it depends on
what type of blood his/her parents have . ...
Please correct me if I'm wrong my brother :happy:

WebersHome · Oct 2, 2015

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Fiction can be defined as stories about people and events that, though
untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

Fantasy can be defined as stories about people and events that are not only
untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

For example: a story about a boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story
about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and a
boy with autism is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the
other is far removed from normal reality.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly
be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable. Now; if he had told
one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese; we would have good
reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy; but none of them are
like that. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as fiction; but never
fantasy because none of them are so far removed from normal reality that
there is no possible chance of it ever being true.

Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies
that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable
theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character: he's a real-life
man; held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent
religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God
(2Chrn 20:27, Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man
famous among normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say
something untrue about a famous real-life man; especially about whom it's
said is one of his Father's buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the
story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said
things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the
commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

There is something else to consider.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No,
it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro
managed.

†. John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words

†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of Him.

†. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things
as the Father taught me.

†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who
sent me.

So, by implying that Luke 16:19-31 is false, the parable theory insinuates
that God is a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the
truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous
seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.

FYI: Luke 16:27 reveals that people in the rich man's situation suffer
anxiety worrying about their relatives.

Can you just imagine the shock, the horror, and the terror that kicks
deceased Jehovah's Witnesses in the guts when they find themselves in the
same situation? Well; that's all they need to instantly realize that traditional
Christianity has been right about hell all along and the Watch Tower Society
is a Judas goat.

But that's not the worst of it. Just think of all the Jehovah's Witness parents
who have actually trained their own children to follow mom and dad down
there. How do people bear the torment of something like that on their
conscience?

=====================

LanceA · Oct 3, 2015

Speaking of JW. I was ambushed by them at my apartment this week. I was coming home for lunch and I noticed three women in a car that I didn't recognize. When I got to the entrance to the building they followed me inside. I unlocked the inner door and they said Hi to me and asked me if I was interested in reading their magazine. I noticed the magazine said Watchtower on it so I assumed they were JW. I politely said no and left them locked out of the building. If I would have had more time I think I would have talked to them.

ukok102nak · Oct 3, 2015

Luke: 8. 10. And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
11. Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12. Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
~:» KJV version «:~
:ty:

WebersHome · Oct 5, 2015

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It's both tragic and ironic that the Watch Tower Society's missionaries go
worldwide advertising a kingdom that they themselves will not be allowed to
enter. Here's why.

At John 3:3-12, Christ and a Jewish rabbi named Nicodemus discussed what
Christ labeled "earthly things". The primary earthly thing discussed was the
kingdom of God. The other earthly thing discussed was the spirit-birth
requirement to enter it. In other words: the kingdom of God on earth, and
the spirit-birth requirement to enter it, are joined at the hip.

Rank and file Watch Tower Society missionaries (a.k.a. the earthly class) are
not spirit-born now, nor do they ever expect to be-- not in this life, nor in
the next; yet they hope to enter the kingdom of God on earth. However,
seeing as how the spirit-birth requirement to enter it is a must rather than
an option; then they will not succeed.

=====================

ukok102nak · Oct 5, 2015

:sisid: Actually some believed that only those 144,000 where the people allowed in heaven :rofl:
Revelation: 7. 4. And I heard the number of them that were signed, an hundred forty-four thousand were signed, of every tribe of the children of Israel.

FOR THOSE WHO NEVER INTEND TO FINISH THE SAID CHAPTER AND MADE THEIR OWN CONCLUSION!!
Some of them forgot to read this next verses
Revelation: 7. 9. After this I saw a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and tribes, and peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne, and in sight of the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands: 10. And they cried with a loud voice, saying: Salvation to our God, who sitteth upon the throne, and to the Lamb.

WebersHome · Oct 7, 2015

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The Watch Tower Society uses the passage below to substantiate its doctrine
that people cease to exist when they die.

†. Ps 146:4 . . His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day
his thoughts do perish.

The Hebrew word for "thoughts" is 'eshtonah (esh-to-naw') which means:
thinking.

Unfortunately, Ps 146:4 is the only place in the entire Old Testament where
'eshtonah appears so we can't compare its uses in other contexts. However,
according to Webster's the word "thinking" is an ambiguous word with quite
a variety of meanings to choose from; including, but not limited to:
concerns, anticipations, conceptions, opinions, imaginations, visualizations,
ideas, epiphanies, plans, schemes, fantasies, arguments, deliberations, and
the like.

For example: consider all those people who perished in the World Trade
Center, in the Japan and Indonesia tsunamis, and the Haiti earthquake.
None of them woke that day planning on it being their last on earth. No, on
the contrary; they had people to see, places to go, and things to do: but
before the day ended; whatever was on their minds lost its importance--
their priorities went right out the window and became no more significant
than green cheese on the moon. All their plans, their dreams, their
schedules, their schemes, their problems, their ambitions, their loves, and
their aspirations went right down the tubes as they were suddenly
confronted with a whole new reality to cope with.

So then, an alternative to the Watch Tower Society's theology is that people
don't go out of existence when they die. Their cognitive processes don't stop
working; no, Ps 146:4 only means that whatever was on their minds while
they were alive is now out of mind; viz: null and void.

Take for example Michael Jackson. While working on a new world tour,
Jackson died in his sleep. As a result; his tour perished on the spot.
Michael's dream went right out the window.

The "spirit goes out" refers to the breath of life that God blew into Adam's
nostrils in the book of Genesis. That breath (a.k.a. life force) served but one
purpose and that was to energize Adam's body (cf. Jas 2:26). But there is
much more to human life than a body. For example: where does human
nature come from? That is a great mystery.

How does the human brain, a 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue,
produce the phenomena of memory, consciousness, individuality, and self
awareness? Why does Man have a sense of justice, of fair play, and a desire
for revenge? Why does he prefer to be right rather than wrong? Why be
right and/or wrong at all? Why does Man want his life to count for
something? Why isn't Man amoral like the other creatures? Butterflies are
free, why aren't we?

Those kinds of questions cannot be answered on a physical level. There is an
element to human life that is above and beyond an organic explanation.

One of the strongest proofs that people continue to exist beyond the demise
of their bodies is Jonah. While the prophet's corpse reposed in the tummy of
a fish, Jonah went to a place that he described as the bottoms of the
mountains. From thence he prayed for recovery; and was granted his
request.

=====================

hopesprings · Oct 9, 2015

pottersclay said:

I laughed way too hard at this

Descyple · Oct 9, 2015

Here is an informative lecture on the Jehovah's Witnesses by Christian apologist James White.

[video=youtube;Ru3GbBB_pIs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru3GbBB_pIs[/video]

WebersHome · Oct 9, 2015

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Q: Doesn't the wisdom of Solomon say there is no activity or planning or
knowledge or wisdom in sheol? (Eccl 9:10)

A: When studying the book of Ecclesiastes, it doesn't take long to catch on
that his philosophy is based upon what can be seen through the eyes of
empirical evidence and human experience. In other words: Ecclesiastes is a
worldly view rather than a spiritual view. So, in order to obtain a spiritual
view of reality, one must resort to the revelations of an inspired prophet
rather than the reflections of an educated intellectual.

Jonah 2:1-7 is very tricky. There are actually three prayers mentioned in it.
One was prayed from the belly of a big fish, one was prayed from the belly
of sheol, and one was prayed at the point of Jonah's death. Very tricky.

Long story short: Jonah said that sheol is at the bottoms of the mountains.
(Jonah 2:6)

The bottoms of the mountains are not located in the tummy of a fish; they're
located in the depths of the earth.

He also said "As for the earth, its bars were upon me for time indefinite."
(Jonah 2:6)

The bars of a fish are its ribs, the bars of the earth are its mantle.

What I'm getting at is: although sheol probably includes one's grave, it's not
limited to that because while Jonah's body was on ice in the fish's tummy,
he was imprisoned at the bottoms of the mountains.

Jesus Christ likened his experience to that of Jonah's.

†. Matt 12:40 . . As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a
huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart
of the earth.

Jesus Christ's corpse wasn't buried in the heart of the earth. It was interred
on the surface of the earth. In point of fact, his grave wasn't even located in
the earth's soil: it was above the soil in a rock-hewn tomb. So then:

Was Jonah in the belly of a fish three days and three nights?

Yes.

Was Jesus Christ in the belly of a tomb three days and three nights?

Yes.

Was Jonah at the bottoms of the mountains?

Yes.

Was Jesus Christ in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights?

Yes.

The only possible means by which all the above could be true for both Jonah
and Jesus Christ, is if the men and their bodies parted company and went
separate ways when they died.

How do I know that Jonah died? Easy.

"you proceeded to bring up my life" is the language of resurrection; but
there's more.

"But out of the pit you proceeded to bring up my life, O Jehovah my God."

The Hebrew word for "pit" sometimes indicates not only a literal hole in the
ground, but also the putrefaction that dead bodies undergo in the grave. For
example Psalm 16:10

"For you will not leave my soul in sheol. You will not allow your loyal one to
see the pit."

Peter applied that passage to Jesus Christ when he said:

"Moreover, even my flesh will reside in hope because you will not leave my
soul in hades, neither will you allow your loyal one to see corruption." (Acts
2:26-27)

According to the wisdom of Solomon, the dead are inactive in sheol and they
have neither knowledge nor wisdom; but Jonah had enough wits about him
in sheol to pray an intelligent prayer.

"I called out of my distress to Yhvh, and He answered me. I cried for help
from the depth of sheol; thou didst hear my voice." (Jonah 2:2)

The apparent contradiction between Solomon and Jonah is easy to resolve
when it's taken into consideration that the book of Ecclesiastes is inspired
philosophy, while the book of Jonah is inspired prophecy.

So then; people have a choice to make. Do they listen to Solomon the
philosopher or do they listen to Jonah the prophet? Abraham recommends
listening to the prophet. (Luke 16:27-31)

Q: You're saying Jonah went to hell?

A: Sheol/Hades essentially identify the afterlife world of the dead; both the
good dead and the bad dead. In point of fact, according to Luke 23:43
Christ's section of hades/sheol was a pleasant situation.

Q: People can pray their way out of sheol?

A: Jonah's circumstances were special. God commissioned Jonah to go and
cry against Nineveh. Long story short: Jonah refused. However; God was
determined to change that man's mind even if He had to kill him to do it.
Well; again, long story short:: God won and Jonah-- no doubt grumbling
every step of the way --finally marched off to Nineveh like he was supposed
to do in the first place. And best of all, Jonah's nautical experience became a
very valuable asset for people seriously interested in knowing what to expect
in the afterlife.

Q: So if New York City's sand hogs were to tunnel deep enough into the
earth they'd find sheol/hades?

A: The afterlife isn't physical; it's supernatural. So if the sand hogs were to
tunnel down to the bottoms of the mountains to find sheol/hades they would
fail because the supernatural world is non physical: viz: it cannot be detected
by sight, sound, smell, taste, or touch. In other words: their tunneling machine
could pass right through the very heart of the netherworld and not even
know it.

=====================

Crustyone · Oct 12, 2015

I would caution anyone saying that JWs won't make it to heaven, considering Romans 10:6-7 6 But the righteousness that is by faithsays: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’”[b] (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’”[c] (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

WebersHome · Oct 12, 2015

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†. John 3:34 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's
spirit is upon him without measure or limit.

According to Jesus Christ's God-given message as per John 3:3-8, a physical
man is defined as the product of natural human birth. This is far more
serious than the typical non spirit-born Watch Tower Society missionary is
capable of realizing.

According to Paul the apostle's teachings at 1Cor 2:11-16, the physical man
(a.k.a. the soulical man) cannot relate to God, cannot perceive God's
thoughts, and cannot accept the things of the spirit of God because to the
physical man, the things of the Spirit are absurd and he cannot get to know
them because they are examined spiritually as opposed to examined
soulically.

REBUTTAL: One thing you fail to realize is that a person need not be spirit
born to be spiritual. There are a large number of references to this
throughout the Bible, including Moses, Joshua, David, and many others who
were spiritual and about whom it is never said they underwent spirit birth.

RESPONSE: Well; quite obviously that ship has sailed and it's time to wake
up and get your bearings. People today are not in the Old Testament era.
They're in the New; and there's no going back; so everyone now is pretty
much stuck with the God-given words spoken by Jesus Christ and the
inspired teachings of the apostle Paul. So then, even if 1Cor 2:14 wasn't
applicable back in the Old Testament's day, it sure is now; and all the clever
sophistry and humanistic reasoning and rationalizing in the world is not
going invalidate those men nor circumvent them.

Now, we should address the Society's rebuttal that "it is never said they
underwent spirit birth". The Watch Tower Society's rebuttal is called an
argument from silence; which is essentially a kind of logic that concludes if
something isn't clearly stated, then it's inferred from the silence that there
was nothing to state. But I infer from the God-given words spoken by Jesus
Christ, and from Paul the apostle's inspired teachings, that the Old
Testament's luminaries were all spirit-born to a man regardless of the Bible
not explicitly saying so.

Don't you see? The spirit birth about which Jesus Christ spoke was not a new
thing. In point of fact, Nicodemus was supposed to know all about it without
Jesus having to explain it.

†. John 3:10 . . Are you a teacher of Israel and yet do not know these
things?

The Watch Tower Society's missionaries have a decision to make: Did Jesus
Christ and Paul the apostle know what they were talking about or not? And if
they did; then why are the Society's missionaries listening to the Watch
Tower Society instead of listening to Jesus Christ and Paul the apostle?

Well; I'll tell you why. It's because Jesus Christ and Paul the apostle spoke
for the things of the Spirit of God; therefore their teachings are
unreasonable to Watch Tower Society missionaries by the simple fact that
they are products of natural human birth instead of supernatural spirit birth.

†. John 6:6-7 . . What has been born from the flesh is flesh, and what has
been born from the spirit is spirit. Do not marvel because I said you people
must be born again.

Well; it's no marvel to me. I mean, how else are people with a physical mind
ever going to relate to a supernatural being on a meaningful level? With the
3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue housed within their bony little skulls?
HAW!

=====================

WebersHome · Oct 14, 2015

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†. John 14:26 . . But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in
my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all
the things I told you.

The Watch Tower Society's missionaries are taught to believe that God's
spirit is alongside assisting them to identify, and to understand, the correct
interpretations of the Bible. However, the Society's missionaries are also
taught that only a special guild of 144,000 anointed Jehovah's Witnesses
actually have the Spirit inside them rather than alongside and that is very
serious. Here's why:

†. Rom 8:9 . .You are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if
God's spirit truly dwells in you.

Seeing as how God's spirit does not truly dwell in the Society's missionaries,
then they are, by default, in harmony with the flesh. That only makes things
worse. Here's why:

†. Rom 8:5-8 . . For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds
on the things of the flesh, but those in accord with the spirit on the things of
the spirit. For the minding of the flesh means death, but the minding of the
spirit means life and peace; because the minding of the flesh means enmity
with God, for it is not under subjection to the law of God, nor, in fact, can it
be. So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God.

Bottom line: Non anointed Watch Tower Society missionaries displease God,
and He displeases them; viz: it's mutual; yet the Society's non anointed
missionaries go door to-door brazenly passing themselves off as God's
friends and allies.

I think it probably goes without saying that people who do not have the
anointing are ill equipped to spot the people who really do; viz: it takes one
to know one.

That being the case; then the hewers of wood and haulers of water-- the
great crowd; a.k.a. the earthly class --are pretty much stuck with taking the
Society's word for it that the core doctrines they carry with them door-to
door were formulated by anointed Witnesses.

Here's a plausible scenario:

Millions of so-called Jehovah's Witnesses are subpoenaed to stand trial on
the same date at the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15.
The first one on the docket is Charles Taze Russell. Within minutes it
becomes apparent to everyone present that the founder of the Watch Tower
Society wasn't anointed.

Next up is Joseph Franklin Rutherford; another key player in the Watch
Tower Society's structure. Within minutes it becomes apparent to everyone
present that he too wasn't anointed.

Where does that leave his followers?

Well; if an axe is laid to the root of a tree, won't the whole tree fall? Yes; it
will. In other words: every so-called Jehovah's witness in the gallery will turn
pale and clammy with panic knowing that whatever befalls Russell and
Rutherford will also befall them; just as whatever befalls Muhammad will
befall every Muslim who believed in him.

=====================

WebersHome · Oct 16, 2015

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†. 1John 2:26-27 . .These things I write you about those who are trying to
mislead you. And as for you, the anointing that you received from him
remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the
anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true and is no lie,
and just as it has taught you, remain in union with him.

The anointing provides people with some valuable advantages to which
people who lack it of course have no access.

1• Protects people from deception

2• Enables people to grasp Jesus Christ's teachings the way he wants them
grasped

3• Makes it possible for people to remain in union with him.

The point is: according to Watch Tower Society theology, only 144,000
special Jehovah's Witnesses have the anointing. There aren't that many
living Witnesses who have the anointing though because when anointed
Witnesses die, their passing doesn't create vacancies; viz: 144,000 is the
maximum.

What that means is: the vast majority of living Witnesses don't have the
anointing. We're talking about some serious numbers here. Currently, there
are approximately 8.2 million living Witnesses. Even if all 144,000 anointed
Witnesses were alive today, that would leave 8,056,000 Witnesses roaming
the earth in our day who 1) have no protection from deception, 2) are
unable to grasp Jesus Christ's teachings the way he wants them grasped,
and 3) are not in union with him.

Needless to say: when people are not in union with Jesus Christ; then they
are not on his side. There is no neutral ground in this. They're either for
Jesus Christ or they're against Jesus Christ.

†. Matt 12:30 . . He that is not on my side is against me, and he that does
not gather with me scatters.

It is really disturbing to think that there are a minimum of 8,056,000 Watch
Tower Society agents out there passing themselves off as Yhvh's servants
when they are not even working in cooperation with His beloved son Jesus
Christ.

You know who the worst kind of liar is? It's someone who lies to themselves.
In other words: Watch Tower Society missionaries who sincerely believe
themselves in union with Jesus Christ without the anointing, are the worst
kind of liar because they literally have themselves fooled into believing
something that isn't true. Ironically, they themselves are actually "one of
those who are trying to mislead you".

=====================

WebersHome · Oct 18, 2015

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Watch the verb "became" in this next verse because it's very important.

†. 1Cor 15:45 . . It is even so written: "The first man Adam became a living
soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

When did first man Adam become a living soul? Answer: at his resurrection?
No, at his birth. When did the last Adam become a life-giving spirit? Answer:
at his resurrection? No, at his birth too.

Some folks object to the above answer by saying that the portion of
1Corinthians where 15:45 is located is all about resurrection rather than
birth. Oh? Then what's Adam's origin doing in there instead of his
resurrection?

The point is: Watchtower theology holds that it's impossible for someone to
exist as a spirit being and as a human being simultaneously; and that's why
they say that the Word of John 1:1-4 had to give up its existence as a spirit
being in order to become the human being of John 1:14. Well; that's what
the Society says about Jesus Christ; but it's not what the Bible says.

According to 1John 1:1-2 the kind of life that's in the Word of John 1:1-4 is
everlasting life; which is a kind of life that's impervious to death; and that's
why it's impossible for the Word to relinquish its existence in order to
become a human being.

†. John 1:1-4 . . In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God. All
things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one
thing came into existence. What has come into existence by means of him
was life.

In other words: Adam came into human existence with life; but not by the
power of his own life. In contrast, the Word came into human existence by
the power of his own life; viz: Adam was never even a life-giving man let
alone a life-giving spirit; but the Word is both.

†. John 5:26 . . For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted
also to the Son to have life in himself.

Well; if the life that's in the Father is eternal life, then the life that's in His
son is eternal life too.

The Watch Tower Society insists that human life is entirely organic. Well;
Christ wasn't entirely organic. Within him was not just human life; but also
the life of God.

†. Col 2:9 . . It is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells
bodily.

Surely at least a portion of the divine quality is the power to both give and
to sustain all manner of life. So even had Christ not been a life-giving spirit,
he was at the very least a life-giving man.

=====================

WebersHome · Oct 20, 2015

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Q: Why does the Watch Tower Society refer to the Word in John 1:1 as a
god in lower case rather than a god in upper case?

A: The Watch Tower Society's doctrine is based upon an imaginary
grammatical technicality.

The common Greek word for "god" is theós. When it's modified by the little
Greek definite article "ho" the Society translates theós with an upper case G.
But when the article is absent, they translate theós with a lower case g. In
other words: in the Society's theological thinking; ho theós pertains to the
one true God, while theós by itself pertains to nondescript gods; unless the
context dictates otherwise.

However, according to Dr. Archibald T. Robertson's Grammar Of The Greek
New Testament, page 767: in regards to nouns in the predicate; the article
is not essential to speech.

In other words: when theόs is in the predicate, "ho" can be either used, or
not used, without making any real difference. Bottom line? A translator's
choice whether to capitalize either of the two theόs in John1:1 or not to
capitalize them, is entirely arbitrary. So an alternate translation of John 1:1
could look like this:

"In the beginning, the Word was, and the Word was with god, and god was
the Word."

Or:

"In the beginning, the Word was, and the Word was with God, and God was
the Word."

But no matter whether the Word is an upper case god or a lower case god,
he is still a god; which presents a bit of a problem for the Watch Tower
Society.

There are only two classifications of gods in the Bible: the true and the false.
There is no middle ground. Now according to John 17:3 and 1Cor 8:5-6,
there is only one true god; which means all other gods have to be false
gods. So then, if the Word of John 1:1 is not the one true god, then he is, by
default, a false god.

The Society tries to squirm out of this dilemma by claiming that when theós
is unmodified by the article "ho" it refers not to deities; but to so-called
mighty ones. Well; were that so then why don't they translate John 1:1 like
this:

"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was a mighty one."

They can't translate it that way because in order to do so they would have to
adulterate the Greek. So instead of translating theόs as a mighty one; they
simply interpret it that way. In other words: they spin it; which can be
defined as twisting something around to favor a particular point of view.

=====================

hopesprings · Oct 20, 2015

Crustyone said:

But they don't believe Jesus Christ is God...they think he's the archangel Michael

WebersHome · Oct 22, 2015

-
†. John 20:28 . . Thomas said to him: "My Lord and my God!"

The Watch Tower Society's Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek
Scriptures translates a portion of that verse as "The God of me and the Lord
of me" In other words: both "lord" and "god" are upper case.

Many moons ago; I asked some Watch Tower Society missionaries to explain
to me why the Society translated theós with an upper case "G" in that verse
seeing as how in Watch Tower Society theology; only the one true god
should be referred to with capital letters. Well; they were too inexperienced
to explain and my question left them stumped.

The fact of the matter is: by the Society's Greek translation rules; its
translators had to use an upper case "G" because whenever theós is
modified by the Greek definite article ho, then the upper case is required.

Well; personally it matters little to me whether Jesus Christ is an upper case
god or a lower case god just so long as we can all agree that he's at least a
god. But curiosity compels me to make further inquiry.

If Jesus Christ was Thomas the apostle's God, then why isn't he the Society's
God? I mean: if Thomas would speak to Jesus Christ and address him as
"my God" then why can't the Society speak to Jesus Christ and address him
the very same way? Isn't Jesus Christ their God too? If Jesus Christ was the
apostle Thomas' God, then shouldn't Jesus Christ be everybody's God?

Was Thomas out of line? Well if Thomas was out of line, then why didn't his
master correct him? I mean: addressing someone other than the one true
god as "my God" is a conduct that under normal circumstances would be
regarded as idolatry, and maybe even blaspheme. Those are some pretty
serious sins.

REBUTTAL: Addressing the resurrected Jesus, the apostle Thomas
exclaimed: "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28) This and other accounts
were "written down that [we] may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of
God." (Copied and Pasted from Jehovah's Witnesses Questions And Answers)

RESPONSE: Well; therein is the rub isn't it? If Jesus Christ really and truly is
the one true god's offspring, then by simple biological rules, Jesus Christ is
also the same species as the one true god.

In other words: if the one true god were to reproduce-- which apparently He
did --then He would produce more of Himself just as Adam produced more of
himself when he reproduced. In Adam's case; a human begot a human;
while in God's case; the one true god begot the one true god.

This is an inescapable scientific principle. It's the way that the birds and the
bees work; and everybody past puberty knows it; except maybe the Watch
Tower Society. Apparently they're all late bloomers and still a little wet
behind the ears.

Thomas somehow knew that Christ was God's actual offspring. Exactly how
Thomas came about that information I don't know but he obviously had an
insight into the Divinity that the Watch Tower Society has been deprived.

I close by saying that the gospel of John is wasted on people who fail to pick
up on Jesus Christ's unique relationship with the one true god. If they come
away from the gospel of John thinking that Jesus Christ is just another
nondescript son of God as per Psalm 82:6, Job 38:7, John 1:12, and/or
1John 3:1-2; then there is nothing more that can be done to convince them
otherwise. Sad to say: even Thomas the apostle's response bounces off
them like a sonar ping. Instead of listening to Thomas, they bury him with
mountains of clever sophistry, twisted semantic double speak, and
humanistic half truths.

FYI: Thomas was a Jew. As such he was under contract with God in
accordance with the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as
per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Thomas, therefore, was
forbidden to have any other god but the one with whom his people
contracted.

†. Ex 20:1-3 . . And God proceeded to speak all these words, saying: I am
Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of
the house of slaves. You must not have any other gods against my face.

"against my face" is a combination of two Hebrew words that essentially
refer to God's competitors. In other words: it is not Jehovah's wishes to
have a market share of His people's affections; no, He'll settle for nothing
less than 100%.

†. Mark 12:28-30 . . Now one of the scribes that had come up and heard
them disputing, knowing that he had answered them in a fine way, asked
him: "Which commandment is first of all?"

. . . Jesus answered: The first is: Hear, O Israel! Jehovah our God is one
Jehovah, and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and
with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole
strength.

According to Deut 27:26 and Gal 3:10, Jews failing to comply with that
commandment are curse-worthy; and I entertain no doubts that Thomas
was fully aware of it before he spoke.

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