Jesus and women

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Ultimatum77

Guest
#41
#41
Magenta said:
While I largely agree with what you have said here it is difficult to overlook the fact that you have contradicted yourself on the one hand to say, teach only from what is explicitly written, while at the same time on the other hand guaranteeing the truth of something that is not written. :(
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I see your point and its good let me clarify....... I can not guarantee (as I was not there) but I am inferring that there must have been women in the crowd shouting crucify him crucify him. Once again I am not saying this is "straight out of the Bible" because it does not explicitly mention
either the original inference or even my inference now....

My main point is to say we shouldn't teach that it is Biblical especially to others when there is no verse straightly inferring/supporting that statement and when it is our own opinion and not physically a part of the Bible's letters..or explicitly stated in the Bible anywhere...We can't say the Bible said this.....because it didn't...it's just our opinion and we should denote that when teaching...
 
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4enlightment

4enlightment

Banned
#42
May 15, 2013
4,307
27
0
#42
Ultimatum77 said:
I see your point and its good let me clarify....... I can not guarantee (as I was not there) but I am inferring that there must have been women in the crowd shouting crucify him crucify him. Once again I am not saying this is "straight out of the Bible" because it does not explicitly mention
either the original inference or even my inference now....

My main point is to say we shouldn't teach that it is Biblical especially to others when there is no verse straightly inferring/supporting that statement and when it is our own opinion and not physically a part of the Bible's letters..or explicitly stated in the Bible anywhere...We can't say the Bible said this.....because it didn't...it's just our opinion and we should denote that when teaching...
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It was forbidden for a woman to voice their own opinions in those days that they must remain silent, and or even looked at a man eye to eye; they must covered themselves and as they walk, they had to look at the ground as they walk. That is why in the garden that Mary did not know whom she was speaking too. Men in those days had thought that they were created in the image of the invisible God, and so they had thought that they were greatness and were superior over the women. And that all women must be humble and submissive to the men.


John 20:11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”


“They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.


15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”


Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”


Matthew 27:19 While Pilate was sitting on the judge’s seat, his wife sent him this message: “Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him.”


Esther 5:2 When he saw Queen Esther standing in the court, he was pleased with her and held out to her the gold scepter that was in his hand. So Esther approached and touched the tip of the scepter. Then the king asked, “What is it, Queen Esther? What is your request? Even up to half the kingdom, it will be given you.” ( And remember that she was standing in the court not able to say a word).


Matthew 14:6 On Herod’s birthday the daughter of Herodias danced for the guests and pleased Herod so much



But nowhere in the ancient world did they ever have a recognised voice in public – beyond, occasionally, complaining about the abuse they must often have suffered. Those who did speak out got ridiculed as being androgynes (‘men-women’). The basic motto (as for Victorian children) was that women should be seen and not heard, and best of all not seen either. http://blog.britishmuseum.org/2014/03/24/did-women-in-greece-and-rome-speak/
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#43
Jul 3, 2015
56,146
26,208
113
#43
4enlightment said:
It was forbidden for a woman to voice their own opinions in those days that they must remain silent, and or even looked at a man eye to eye; they must covered themselves and as they walk, they had to look at the ground as they walk. That is why in the garden that Mary did not know whom she was speaking too. Men in those days had thought that they were created in the image of the invisible God, and so they had thought that they were greatness and were superior over the women. And that all women must be humble and submissive to the men.

John 20:11 Now Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus’ body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.

13 They asked her, “Woman, why are you crying?”

“They have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I don’t know where they have put him.” 14 At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.

15 He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?”

Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.”

Matthew 27:19 While Pilate was sitting on the judge’s seat, his wife sent him this message: “Don’t have anything to do with that innocent man, for I have suffered a great deal today in a dream because of him.”

Esther 5:2 When he saw Queen Esther standing in the court, he was pleased with her and held out to her the gold scepter that was in his hand. So Esther approached and touched the tip of the scepter. Then the king asked, “What is it, Queen Esther? What is your request? Even up to half the kingdom, it will be given you.” ( And remember that she was standing in the court not able to say a word).

Matthew 14:6 On Herod’s birthday the daughter of Herodias danced for the guests and pleased Herod so much
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The Scriptures explicitly say That Mary saw Jesus.
 
PoetMary

PoetMary

Banned
#44
Nov 25, 2014
942
44
0
#44
phil112 said:
Preacher brought a decent message this morn. Jesus and women. He pointed out something that I'd never considered, and I love and appreciate when that happens from the bible.
Talking about Mary Magdalene and her role before and after Christ's death.
He noted that women never had any problem with Christ. Every single time someone gave Him trouble it was a man. And that's true.
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Here's my take on Jesus and women. If you study how he interacted with women, you see that Jesus afforded them dignity and a voice not often allowed them in their male dominated society. He shamed the men who brought the woman caught in adultery and didn't condemn her. His forgiveness of her sin gave her the room to change. He spoke to the woman at the well and transformed her notoriety into a means of spreading the gospel to the Samaritans. He delivered Mary Magdalene of seven demons and made her part of his inner circle. He corrected Martha for getting onto her sister Mary. He let Martha know that "female duties" weren't more valuable than learning at his feet.

As others have indicated, neither gender is inherently more moral or Godly. Also, as mentioned, there are many stories about Jesus that weren't told in the gospels (we have received all the NECESSARY stories). So then, we must conclude that these stories of Jesus's interactions with women are entirely necessary. They give us really concrete examples of the love God has for women (something, btw, demonstrated throughout the bible).

In my view of it, God clearly elevates the humanity of BOTH genders. Beginning with honoring a woman to give birth to the Savior. Honoring men by having the Savior be a man. And, finally, by Christ's treatment of all people throughout the gospels. It's pretty incredible to consider how deeply God loves our humanity.
 
4enlightment

4enlightment

Banned
#45
May 15, 2013
4,307
27
0
#45
Magenta said:
The Scriptures explicitly say That Mary saw Jesus.
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Well, she had thought that he was the gardener at first until He had said her name. People need to read the scriptures as if it is very important to them like the way they read a letter from someone that they are in a cheating relationship with, word by word with heart and soul.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#46
Jul 3, 2015
56,146
26,208
113
#46
4enlightment said:
Well, she had thought that he was the gardener at first until He had said her name. People need to read the scriptures as if it is very important to them like the way they read a letter from someone that they are in a cheating relationship with, word by word with heart and soul.
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You said she did not see Him at all, because she was
looking at the ground. I agree, you need to read better.
 
D

didymos

Guest
#47
#47
phil112 said:
There seems to be no end to people that find fault with a post. How do you explain all the other women in the old testament? Jezebel, for starters.
You are making an incredibly ignorant premise here.
Feminist theology? I point out that Women loved Christ (Luke 8:2,3 23:27 24:10, for starters) And He loved them and you accuse me of starting feminist theology?
You think my point was to prove women are more special than men?
You're pretty special yourself. Makes me believe you'll be voting for bernie.
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Finding fault is too big a word, I was just trying to put your comment into perspective. Something you should try to do too before you jump to conclusions, like: I couldn't vote for that mixed muppet even I wanted to.

 
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RobbyEarl

Guest
#48
#48
Hi Thomas you okay?
 
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coby

Guest
#49
#49
I don't know if He really had less problems with women. They weren't in leadership and weren't even counted in the Bible, it's always: so much men.
John 6:66 from then on many of His male disciples left and all the females stayed. Not.
 
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RobbyEarl

Guest
#50
#50
The first person to preach the gospel was a women.
 
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phil112

Guest
#52
#52
didymos said:
Finding fault is too big a word, I was just trying to put your comment into perspective. Something you should try to do too before you jump to conclusions, like: I couldn't vote for that mixed muppet even I wanted to.

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If I jump to conclusions, it is the fault of the one whose post I supposedly misunderstood.
Which is why I always say, "words mean something. Use the ones best suited to the point you are trying to make".
In other words, make sure your words are telling me exactly what you want me to hear.
 
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phil112

Guest
#53
#53
Magenta said:
You said she did not see Him at all, because she was
looking at the ground. I agree, you need to read better.
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I chuckled when I read that part. I like it. In this case, it sounds better than my "improve your reading comprehension". :D
 
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seraphprincess

Senior Member
#54
Sep 5, 2011
109
5
18
#54
I heard that Paul wrote that verse because he was frustrated and fed up with the unruly women of Corinth, which was a wild city, the women were being rude and too chatty, they were talking to each other, asking questions, blabbering on... interrupting the sermon and message the preacher was preaching. Paul was promoting orderly worship were one person spoke at a time. If they would not be allowed to speak, what about singing? Were they allowed to sing orderly to praise the Lord? I am not sure what the early first century church service was like, people were very excited at this new kind and forgiving, awesome powerful way that God reached down to us with His Son.

One person should speak at a time. In modern churches they have Sunday school lessons for everyone of different ages, then the church service, the sermon. No one should interrupt while the teacher or preacher/ pastor is speaking. These days we have women Sunday school teachers, and women ministers, pastors, deacons.
 
E

ember

Guest
#55
#55
tannerbrody said:
According to the film Davinci Code Jesus fathered a child with Mary Magdelene though I highly doubt it. The film Last Temptation of Christ also talks about Jesus's shall we say..."fleshly desires". Some people think all the sexual stuff in Song of Solomon (canticle) is about Magdelene but my pastor said its a metaphor for the passionate love between God and the church. Women didn't have the same rights as men in most nations back in those days, kings had many wives, concubines, and even slaves.
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yeah

where to go when you want to know the truth

HOLLYWOOD!

how very perceptive of you


For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are--yet he did not sin. HEBREWS 4:15
 
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roaringkitten

Guest
#56
#56
Magenta said:
Mary Magdalene was named in the gospels more than most of the apostles!
She was witness to three key events in the life of Christ:
His crucifixion, His burial, and His resurrected Self.
Mary Magdalene was the first to witness the risen Lord. :)
Mary Magdalene was the first witness of the risen Lord. :)
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The witness of a woman was despised as we see the men not believing the accounts of the women(ie: Luke 24:9-11), but we know God had a reason for using the testimony of women as the first witnesses to His resurrection:

"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:That no flesh should glory in his presence." 1 Cor 1:27-29
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#57
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
128
0
71
#57
phil112 said:
Preacher brought a decent message this morn. Jesus and women. He pointed out something that I'd never considered, and I love and appreciate when that happens from the bible.
Talking about Mary Magdalene and her role before and after Christ's death.
He noted that women never had any problem with Christ. Every single time someone gave Him trouble it was a man. And that's true.
But then Jezebel or my 2nd ex wasn't around then either. ;)
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Jezebel was before my time and I don't think I've met your second ex.
 
D

didymos

Guest
#58
#58
phil112 said:
If I jump to conclusions, it is the fault of the one whose post I supposedly misunderstood.
Which is why I always say, "words mean something. Use the ones best suited to the point you are trying to make".
In other words, make sure your words are telling me exactly what you want me to hear.
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Let's just say there was a miscommunication. God bless. :)
 
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