Jesus, King of the Jews

[Nehemiah6]

I think you need to ditch your attack strategies of either accusing people of being anti-Semitic or being ignorant - just because they disagree with you!

I believe you are right. The OP has a lot of straw man arguments. Christians are not Nazis or Neo-Nazis.

1. Christians who know their Bibles fully understand that Christianity is rooted in Jesus of Nazareth and in the Hebrew Old Testament.

2. Christians also know that above all the entire nation of Israel should have been saved but that did not happen.

3. Christians also know that if some were elected to salvation (as Calvinists claim), then every Jew would have been elected.

Who are Israelites;

1. to whom pertaineth the adoption,

2. and the glory,

3. and the covenants,

4. and the giving of the law,

5. and the service of God,

6. and the promises;

7. Whose are the fathers,

8. and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came,

who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Rom 9:4,5).

 

[JaumeJ]

I had suspected you had not read the Old Testament, but now I suspect you have never read Christ's own words in the New Testament.

There is no dialogue with anyone on any subject if one has never known the subject. Please read and hear what Jesus says.....not what a tradition of man being taught may say........He came for the Hebrews first and wuld not talk to large groups of gentiles at all unless they numbered among an even larger group of Hebrews. After all He does teach the Law and the Prohets with uunderstanding.....He fulfills them but does not destroy either. Please do not comment aginst this post for it is correct and you have demonstrated you do not know.

Statements like this are just so ludicrous!!!
Really...pure speculation on your part!

I am very well aware that Jesus limited His MINISTRY almost exclusively to Jews.
However, there were exceptions - and they are included in the Gospels...

Also, if you really know the history of Palestine in New Testament times then you would know that Jews were actually a minority in Palestine.
Jesus would have had plenty of interaction with Gentiles both growing up AND during the times of His three year ministry on a day-to-day basis and in these situations would have spoken Koine Greek because that would have been the common language.

I think you need to ditch your attack strategies of either accusing people of being anti-Semitic or being ignorant - just because they disagree with you!

 

[graceNpeace]

I had suspected you had not read the Old Testament, but now I suspect you have never read Christ's own words in the New Testament.

There is no dialogue with anyone on any subject if one has never known the subject. Please read and hear what Jesus says.....not what a tradition of man being taught may say........He came for the Hebrews first and wuld not talk to large groups of gentiles at all unless they numbered among an even larger group of Hebrews. After all He does teach the Law and the Prohets with uunderstanding.....He fulfills them but does not destroy either. Please do not comment aginst this post for it is correct and you have demonstrated you do not know.

Buddy, this is unadulterated crap!
YOU most certainly do not have a monopoly on knowledge of any kind, including Biblical knowledge!
You obviously have premeditated idea about this that to be found wrong would violate some strange doctrinal viewpoint...

Jesus most definitely spoke to Gentiles, occasionally in ministry and frequently on a day-to-day basis!
When He did converse with Gentiles He would have spoken a language that all would have understood and that would have been Koine Greek.

Again, boringly, you have accused me of ignorance, which patently and farcically false!

 

[JaumeJ]

You object to my repeating how Jesus came to His own first..............I cannot accept this dialogue.

 

[JaumeJ]

Were not the Samaritans renegade Hebrews comprised of two Tribes? I may not be correct here.

As for Christ's teaching and performing healings for Gentiles, they came to Him..........such as the centurion and the Samaritan woman coming to the well whom I suspect was a Hebrew.

 

[graceNpeace]

You object to my repeating how Jesus came to His own first..............I cannot accept this dialogue.

You are simply deliberately twisting my words!
I never ever said that Jesus did NOT minister primarily to Jews...
For you to claim such is just ludicrous!
It is simply a matter of reading the Gospels - I certainly didn't get it from you!

The unadulterated crap is you claiming ignorance on the part of anyone who disagrees with anything you say...

 

[Ahwatukee]

Here you demonstrate that you are not aware Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel, the Jews for starters in Judah, Israel. He would not speak to gentiles, so it seems very unlikely God would choose to speak to His people in a foreign tonge. As concering Aramaic, it i a form aof Hebrew, and it was not spoken when dealing with Holy Scripure,.

Now.,I pray you peace and grace.......... The OP is about the meaning of the word, Jew in its relationship to all who praie God.

Though Jesus came to the lost house of Israel first, He also came for Gentile believers as well, else He would not have appointed Paul as the Apostle to the Gentiles.

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."

We also have prophecy regarding salvation for the Gentiles:

"I will call them my people who are not my people. I will call her my loved one who was not my loved one."

The Law is done with as far as the believer in Christ is concerned. Jesus came and fulfilled the Law, satisfying it completely. Consequently, the believer is no longer under the law, because its requirements have been met in Christ. Believers are credited with Christ's righteousness which includes the fulfillment of the law and was nailed to the cross. The Law gives sin its power and kills us when we attempt to keep it. Because mankind could not and cannot keep the Law perfectly, it was ammunition for the powers of darkness against us. Therefore, why would anyone want to put themselves back under it to try and keep it, especially when Christ already fulfilled it?

 

[graceNpeace]

Were not the Samaritans renegade Hebrews comprised of two Tribes? I may not be correct here.

As for Christ's teaching and performing healings for Gentiles, they came to Him..........such as the centurion and the Samaritan woman coming to the well whom I suspect was a Hebrew.

I thought you were the Biblical expert here with all the claims you make that everyone else being ignorant fools...

The Samaritans were not renegade Jews...
A Jew by definition is one who originally belonged to the Kingdom of Judah.
The Kingdom of Judah comprised, not surprisingly the Tribe of Judah, but also the Tribe of Benjamin (Paul was from the tribe of Benjamin), and some of the Tribe of Levi.
No Samaritan comes from these roots...

Samaritans were the remnants of the Kingdom of Israel, who went into captivity as a judgement from God because of apostasy, but unlike the Kingdom of Judah which was judged by God in the same way, the Kingdom of Israel never repented.
Some of these people did come back to the land from which they originated but never as a discrete "people", and only with the faintest echoes of their previous religion...

As for the fact that Samaritans and a Roman centurion approached Jesus it does not change the fact that Jesus spoke to them!
Also your highly vaunted Biblical knowledge has deserted you - go read John 4:1-26...
Who spoke to who first?
You will find that JESUS initiates a conversation with the Samaritan woman who was just minding her own business......
She only reluctantly participates in that conversation!

In the case of the Roman centurion it is highly unlikely that he spoke Aramaic.
He would have spoken Latin but he also would have spoken Koine Greek simply because EVERYONE in the Roman Empire spoke Koine Greek - it was the language of commerce and administration...

 

[JaumeJ]

Does anyone remember the conversation between the centurion and Jesus?

The centurion asked the Lord to heal his child.

Jesus said He would but the centurion said, "Just say the word and my child will be healed for I am not worthy that You should come under my roof."

And the what did Jesus comment. "Go your way your child is healed." "Never have I seen such faith in Israel."

And so it is with al who blieve Jesus christ outside of the Twelve Tribes.......All who believe Jesus are like the centurion, outside of Israel, yet joined by adoption through the gift of faith from the Father......

Jesus did not seek out gentiles.........not until after He had giventhe Gospel, Himself, to Israel.

 

[Katy-follower]

What are you really trying to say from your OP, Jack?

Paul was apostle to the gentiles. Are you saying we're to reject Paul's writings? This sounds a bit like the Hebrew roots movement to me...

Maybe I've misunderstood?

There's a well known atheist who falsely claims that the NT is all written by imposters (I'm not suggesting you agree with him at all, don't misunderstand me). One of his arguments is that it's not written in Hebrew.

 

[JaumeJ]

I confess I have learned much in the forums from everyone, even those who think I do not hear Jesus in them.

May I elaborate on the centurion. No man comes to Jesus Christ unless the Father draws him to Him

No man comes to Jesus Christ unless they are given faith which comes from the Father.

I experienced this myself, not by human intervention but by the Holy Spirit.

The centurion had great faith, a gift of the Father. He also knew in the spirit to go to Jesus for amiracle,
this from the great faith given him by the Father.

There is much more to be understood by this seemingly short acount but most folks just stop there.

As for gentiles being sought out by our Savior, not at all at first, as He says, and He haas not lied to me or to you.

Thank you for teaching me so much, and there is yet so much I do not know..........

I would be overjoyed to see all here in the KIngdom......amen.

 

[JaumeJ]

It should be plain in the OP....... all who truly love God are praisers of God, and the word, Judah, means praiser of God.

I gave the story of Leah naming Judah for this cause. She said she would now praise God for He had delivered her a boy child.

By translation Jew is short for a praiser of Yahweh, God. Jey as a word from that syllable is actually the part that says Yah. Everytime we say Jew we are saying the early name of God.....Yahweh...

I confess I have learned much in the forums from everyone, even those who think I do not hear Jesus in them.

May I elaborate on the centurion. No man comes to Jesus Christ unless the Father draws him to Him

No man comes to Jesus Christ unless they are given faith which comes from the Father.

I experienced this myself, not by human intervention but by the Holy Spirit.

The centurion had great faith, a gift of the Father. He also knew in the spirit to go to Jesus for amiracle,
this from the great faith given him by the Father.

There is much more to be understood by this seemingly short acount but most folks just stop there.

As for gentiles being sought out by our Savior, not at all at first, as He says, and He haas not lied to me or to you.

Thank you for teaching me so much, and there is yet so much I do not know..........

I would be overjoyed to see all here in the KIngdom......amen.

 

[tanakh]

The early Church outside Judea used the Septuagint the Greek translation of the scriptures. At that time Greek was the main language used by people in the Roman Empire much as English is used by many today. There was a large Jewish Diaspora based in Alexandria at the time that the Septuagint was made. It was created for them because they spoke Greek not Hebrew. Legend has it that seventy Rabbis translated it and when it was put together they had produced a perfect translation. That's where the name Septuagint comes from. It means seventy. Jesus and the disciples spoke in Aramaic which is a kind of Hebrew Dialect. Today Aramaic is still used by the Church in Syria. We know from Pauls letters that at least some of them were dictated by him and as they were written for a mainly Gentile readership its likely that the originals would have been in Greek. OT quotations in the NT are from the Septuagint. One of the most notable is the quote A Virgin shall give Birth to a child.... The Hebrew version uses the word for Young Woman the Greek uses a literal Virgin.

 

[tanakh]

The Jews thought the Greeks were a bunch of dogs. I highly doubt that the Jewish scribes would translate their OT into Greek.

The Septuagint a Greek Translation of the Bible was translated by Rabbis for none Hebrew speaking Jews living in Alexandria several hundred years before Christ and was read and quoted from by the early church and is used for modern English translations.

 

[JaumeJ]

TheGreekTorahwasaroundabout300 BC........Many, it is certain used it, jsut as we use various translations of the Word.

 

[John146]

The Septuagint a Greek Translation of the Bible was translated by Rabbis for none Hebrew speaking Jews living in Alexandria several hundred years before Christ and was read and quoted from by the early church and is used for modern English translations.

There are absolutely NO Greek Old Testament manuscripts existent with a date of 250 BC or anywhere near it. Neither is there any record in Jewish history of such a work being contemplated or performed.

When pressed to produce hard evidence of the existence of such a document, scholars quickly point to Origen's Hexapla written around 200 AD, or approximately 450 years later than the LXX was supposedly penned, and more than 100 years after the New Testament was completed. The second column of Origen's Hexapla contains his own (hardly 72 Jewish scholars) Greek translation of the Old Testament including spurious books such as "Bel and the Dragon", "Judith" and "Tobit" and other apocryphal books accepted as authoritative only by the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[JaumeJ]

My understanding gives the first Greek Torah at somewhere arount 300 bc, while the entire OT was not translated until around 250 bc. It is not terribly important now, but it was to the diaspora at the time of its writing since Hebrew was rapidly being lost to time only to be resurrected in the 10th century. I believe the resurgence could have began in the late 19th though..you tell me. I do not do a lot of research thses days.

 

[Endoscopy]

Though Jesus came to the lost house of Israel first, He also came for Gentile believers as well, else He would not have appointed Paul as the Apostle to the Gentiles.

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd."

We also have prophecy regarding salvation for the Gentiles:

"I will call them my people who are not my people. I will call her my loved one who was not my loved one."

The Law is done with as far as the believer in Christ is concerned. Jesus came and fulfilled the Law, satisfying it completely. Consequently, the believer is no longer under the law, because its requirements have been met in Christ. Believers are credited with Christ's righteousness which includes the fulfillment of the law and was nailed to the cross. The Law gives sin its power and kills us when we attempt to keep it. Because mankind could not and cannot keep the Law perfectly, it was ammunition for the powers of darkness against us. Therefore, why would anyone want to put themselves back under it to try and keep it, especially when Christ already fulfilled it?

I need to clarify one point. Jesus said He came not to break the law and the prophets but to fulfill. He stated the law would remain until heaven and earth disappear. Therefore we are under the law. When we break the law it is called sin. What Jesus accomplished by His Crucifixion and Resurrection is allowing those who accept His sacrifice to have their sins imputed to Him and his rightness imputed to us. Thus at judgement we are free of sin. Those who don't accept His sacrifice will be judged according to their sins.

 

[graceNpeace]

I need to clarify one point. Jesus said He came not to break the law and the prophets but to fulfill. He stated the law would remain until heaven and earth disappear. Therefore we are under the law. When we break the law it is called sin. What Jesus accomplished by His Crucifixion and Resurrection is allowing those who accept His sacrifice to have their sins imputed to Him and his rightness imputed to us. Thus at judgement we are free of sin.

Paul explicitly tells us in multiple texts that we are NOT under the Law.
Since Scripture does not contradict itself it is clear that your interpretation of Matt 5:18 is wrong!
Obviously, whatever Jesus was referring to in that verse IS fulfilled otherwise Paul could not say time after time in a very explicit fashion that New covenant believers are not under the Law.
In addition the narrative of Acts chapter 15 detailing the Jerusalem council also makes it very clear the New covenant believers are not bound by the Law.

Your interpretation has Scripture contradicting itself...

 

[JaumeJ]

No man may rescind the declaration of God, not even people who come into the forum.