Jesus, King of the Jews

[JaumeJ]

JesusChrist has taught all that He has not destroyed the law.
He has taught all that He came to fulfill the law.

All who recognize His voice hear Him for only He is the Good Shepherd.

Go through the over 600 laws from the hand of Moses and see there are very few that have survived Christ's first advent, but some do remain, those that constitute love. The ten Commandments, the laws on decent moral behavior are some that remain.
Any who have the law on their hearts hear Jesus and obey Him for it is He who is fulfilling them in all of us, yet we still are sinners but God does not see the guilt of our sins. We, in true gratitude give thanks by doing our best to obey the laws that remain while God finishes our perfection, the work He, and only He, began in each who has truly turned from this age to Him

This is not being under the law as so many say it is, so in this manner only Paul is correct. We do not turn to be under the law,.
One misguided person brought up circumcision to me as though I thought it necessary, and also leveled a charge of being a Judaizer. If hearing Jesus Christ, understanding Him and doing as He teaches is Judaizing, perhaps that person is right because I do want to obey the One Who Suffered and died for all who are saved, and saed by grace only. Hear the Word of the Lord, and hear the voice of Him, Jesus Christ, amen.

 

[JaumeJ]

Learn what the following quote from the Master is saying; hear His voice.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Learn what the following quote from the Master is saying; hear His voice.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Once again, no one is telling anyone to break the law. We are saying that we are not under the law, but are saved by grace through faith. Why do you continue to translate not being under the Law as telling people to break it?! Think about what you're saying!

As believers we follow Christ and are led by the Spirit and are not under the Law. As we go from faith to faith we are being transformed into the image of Christ. We are not saved by attempting to meet the requirements of the law.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If hearing Jesus Christ, understanding Him and doing as He teaches is Judaizing, perhaps that person is right because I do want to obey the One Who Suffered and died for all who are saved, and saed by grace only. Hear the Word of the Lord, and hear the voice of Him, Jesus Christ, amen.

If you want to do that, then recognized that Christ fulfilled the Law completely and fully and that it has been nailed to the cross. We are not under the law in any respect, but are under a new covenant.

* Christ met the righteous requirements of the law bringing it to its completion on behalf of every believer

* Christ took upon himself the wrath every believer deserves so that the wrath of God no longer rests upon us

* Christ paid the penalty for every believers sins, so that through faith they are no longer accounted to us

 

[JaumeJ]

Do not comment to me, hear our Savior and heed His Word.

Learn what the following quote from the Master is saying; hear His voice.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Endoscopy]

Paul explicitly tells us in multiple texts that we are NOT under the Law.
Since Scripture does not contradict itself it is clear that your interpretation of Matt 5:18 is wrong!
Obviously, whatever Jesus was referring to in that verse IS fulfilled otherwise Paul could not say time after time in a very explicit fashion that New covenant believers are not under the Law.
In addition the narrative of Acts chapter 15 detailing the Jerusalem council also makes it very clear the New covenant believers are not bound by the Law.

Your interpretation has Scripture contradicting itself...

Here is Jesus about the law.

Matthew 5:17 to 20 NIV

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of thesecommands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Heaven and earth are still here. Therefore the law is in place. Christians admit this when they admit we all sin. Sin is transgression of the law!! What Jesus did was to remove the penalty of the law only for those who accept Him as their savior. Those who don't will at judgment be judged according to their actions and words under the law.

 

[JaumeJ]

The theme of this thread is supposed to deal with who a true Jew is.

So far I am getting a lot of posts on the law and being "under the law" and worse from those who have no clue as to what
obedience under the grace of Jesus Christ is. They seem to want to replace obedience with an OSAS doctrine.

No one who understands the OP would ev en begin to suggest this is a post on the law, yet I have been weak and bent to the wind of the deflection. Please forgive that.

Now the notion that Jesus Christ was preaching in Greek in Israel is not even serious enough to entrtain.
.
Jesus was a Jew. He is theWord, the Word with God and the Word is God.......

Paul does not change anything Jesus taught. He teaches what Jesus taught.

For those who may not know exactly what He taught. He taught His Gospel, the only Gospel as indicated by Paul also.

When we find people interpreting Paul's writings as contradicting the Gospel of Jesus Christ we know that perons
is deceived and is not hearing the Word of the Lord......probably not recognizing His voice at all since theGood Shepherd's sheep
do recognize His voice and hear Him, even when it is another sharing His Word.

Stay away from doctrines that are not of Christ, for there are none that are true. Hear the Word of the Lord, amen.

 

[Endoscopy]

The theme of this thread is supposed to deal with who a true Jew is.

So far I am getting a lot of posts on the law and being "under the law" and worse from those who have no clue as to what
obedience under the grace of Jesus Christ is. They seem to want to replace obedience with an OSAS doctrine.

No one who understands the OP would ev en begin to suggest this is a post on the law, yet I have been weak and bent to the wind of the deflection. Please forgive that.

Now the notion that Jesus Christ was preaching in Greek in Israel is not even serious enough to entrtain.
.
Jesus was a Jew. He is theWord, the Word with God and the Word is God.......

Paul does not change anything Jesus taught. He teaches what Jesus taught.

For those who may not know exactly what He taught. He taught His Gospel, the only Gospel as indicated by Paul also.

When we find people interpreting Paul's writings as contradicting the Gospel of Jesus Christ we know that perons
is deceived and is not hearing the Word of the Lord......probably not recognizing His voice at all since theGood Shepherd's sheep
do recognize His voice and hear Him, even when it is another sharing His Word.

Stay away from doctrines that are not of Christ, for there are none that are true. Hear the Word of the Lord, amen.

You seem to forget Greek was lingua frank then. There were more than Jews there. Remember the spirit descending and people started talking in tongues and others heard them in their own language. Go back to the drawing board and try again.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The theme of this thread is supposed to deal with who a true Jew is.

The days of establishing that are over.

In the Church the Body of Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile.

And if you want to see a perfect example of the true Jew, then only the Lord Jesus Christ will suffice.

 

[beta]

Once again, no one is telling anyone to break the law. We are saying that we are not under the law, but are saved by grace through faith. Why do you continue to translate not being under the Law as telling people to break it?! Think about what you're saying!

As believers we follow Christ and are led by the Spirit and are not under the Law. As we go from faith to faith we are being transformed into the image of Christ. We are not saved by attempting to meet the requirements of the law.

And yet you talk as if Jesus was 'lawless ! HE was very much 'law-abiding as you would be if you followed Him. Did He or did He not keep His Fathers Commandments ?

 

[beta]

If you want to do that, then recognized that Christ fulfilled the Law completely and fully and that it has been nailed to the cross. We are not under the law in any respect, but are under a new covenant.

* Christ met the righteous requirements of the law bringing it to its completion on behalf of every believer

* Christ took upon himself the wrath every believer deserves so that the wrath of God no longer rests upon us

* Christ paid the penalty for every believers sins, so that through faith they are no longer accounted to us


[/COLOR]

You saying ' we can continue in sin ? that's the impression you are giving.

 

[graceNpeace]

Here is Jesus about the law.

Matthew 5:17 to 20 NIV

The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of thesecommands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Heaven and earth are still here. Therefore the law is in place. Christians admit this when they admit we all sin. Sin is transgression of the law!! What Jesus did was to remove the penalty of the law only for those who accept Him as their savior. Those who don't will at judgment be judged according to their actions and words under the law.

You know, try reading Paul's epistle to the Romans!
The Torah was never necessary to judge someones sinfulness....
The majority of the earth's population have never heard of the Torah and never will, yet God will judge them with true justice and all who have never accepted Him as Lord and Saviour will receive a negative judgement!
For that justice to be true justice those individuals cannot be judged according to the statutes of the Torah - after all nobody who was not a Jew was it ever demanded that they accept the terms of the Sinaitic covenant, of which the Torah is the central article, and very few Gentiles ever did.
They will however be judged according to their knowledge of sin and sinfulness and all will be found wanting...

Your misunderstanding of Matt 5:18 puts Scripture against Scripture in direct contradiction...
If Paul can tell JEWS that the Law is no longer binding then it is no longer binding.
And it means that what Jesus was referring to in Matt 5:18, also speaking to Jews must be fulfilled - otherwise the only alternative is to call Paul a liar, and therefore to reduce Scripture to a contradictory mess...

 

[Endoscopy]

You know, try reading Paul's epistle to the Romans!
The Torah was never necessary to judge someones sinfulness....
The majority of the earth's population have never heard of the Torah and never will, yet God will judge them with true justice and all who have never accepted Him as Lord and Saviour will receive a negative judgement!
For that justice to be true justice those individuals cannot be judged according to the statutes of the Torah - after all nobody who was not a Jew was it ever demanded that they accept the terms of the Sinaitic covenant, of which the Torah is the central article, and very few Gentiles ever did.
They will however be judged according to their knowledge of sin and sinfulness and all will be found wanting...

Your misunderstanding of Matt 5:18 puts Scripture against Scripture in direct contradiction...
If Paul can tell JEWS that the Law is no longer binding then it is no longer binding.
And it means that what Jesus was referring to in Matt 5:18, also speaking to Jews must be fulfilled - otherwise the only alternative is to call Paul a liar, and therefore to reduce Scripture to a contradictory mess...

Since you mentioned Romans. Keep in mind that sin is breaking the law! Here is Paul commenting on the law and sin. How does this remove the law?

Romans 7


The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.



Here is Jesus on the law. I take the word of Jesus against yours any time.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.


Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Endoscopy]

You know, try reading Paul's epistle to the Romans!
The Torah was never necessary to judge someones sinfulness....
The majority of the earth's population have never heard of the Torah and never will, yet God will judge them with true justice and all who have never accepted Him as Lord and Saviour will receive a negative judgement!
For that justice to be true justice those individuals cannot be judged according to the statutes of the Torah - after all nobody who was not a Jew was it ever demanded that they accept the terms of the Sinaitic covenant, of which the Torah is the central article, and very few Gentiles ever did.
They will however be judged according to their knowledge of sin and sinfulness and all will be found wanting...

Your misunderstanding of Matt 5:18 puts Scripture against Scripture in direct contradiction...
If Paul can tell JEWS that the Law is no longer binding then it is no longer binding.
And it means that what Jesus was referring to in Matt 5:18, also speaking to Jews must be fulfilled - otherwise the only alternative is to call Paul a liar, and therefore to reduce Scripture to a contradictory mess...

Required by the 5 minuteminute rule.

I find no contradiction. Point out the scripture to me.

Sin is transgression of the law!
Admitting you sin means you are breaking the law!
Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear!
We are still here!
Paul talks about fight he has because the law shows him his sin!
So show the contradiction!
If there is a contradiction then I take the word of Jesus over any other scripture!!!

Methinks you need to read all New Testament scripture concerning the law. Especially since Jesus said it is in place until heaven and earth disappear!!!

 

[graceNpeace]

Since you mentioned Romans. Keep in mind that sin is breaking the law! Here is Paul commenting on the law and sin. How does this remove the law?

Romans 7


The Law and Sin
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.



Here is Jesus on the law. I take the word of Jesus against yours any time.

Matthew 5:13 to 20 NIV
Jesus saying he came to fulfill the law and the prophets.


Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
The Fulfillment of the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Obviously you have a problem comprehending simple English!
Romans chapter 7 most expressly tells the reader that the New covenant believer is NO longer subject to the demands of the Law.
Your cherry-picking of bits and pieces out of that chapter does not change this!

As for Matt 5:17-18, Jesus came to fulfill the Law and Prophets and that is exactly what He did!
We are now not subject to the demands of the Law!
And that is exactly what is explained, in detail, in romans chapter 7

 

[graceNpeace]

Required by the 5 minuteminute rule.

I find no contradiction. Point out the scripture to me.

Sin is transgression of the law!
Admitting you sin means you are breaking the law!
Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear!
We are still here!
Paul talks about fight he has because the law shows him his sin!
So show the contradiction!
If there is a contradiction then I take the word of Jesus over any other scripture!!!

Methinks you need to read all New Testament scripture concerning the law. Especially since Jesus said it is in place until heaven and earth disappear!!!

No, Paul convincingly demonstrates the the Law is no longer binding on New covenant believers.
It is not hard to understand, you just refuse to accept it...

 

[Endoscopy]

Something you ignore. In the Old Testament sacrifices were made every year to remove the past years sins from the person. Those sins were breaking the law! The preferred sacrifice was an unblemished Lamb. Another name of Jesus is the Lamb of God. He was the Unblemished Lamb of God sacrificed for our sins. All because of that pesky law no one can keep!!

Please explain how we can sin if there is no law. By definition it is breaking the law!!!

What Jesus did is to remove the penalty of breaking the law for those who accept Him as savior. Thus at judgement time His blood covers our sins.

Those who reject Him will at judgement time be judged about their breaking the law

 

[Endoscopy]

Obviously you have a problem comprehending simple English!
Romans chapter 7 most expressly tells the reader that the New covenant believer is NO longer subject to the demands of the Law.
Your cherry-picking of bits and pieces out of that chapter does not change this!

As for Matt 5:17-18, Jesus came to fulfill the Law and Prophets and that is exactly what He did!
We are now not subject to the demands of the Law!
And that is exactly what is explained, in detail, in romans chapter 7

I don't care what you say about the what you think scripture says!!!
I stand on the statement of Jesus claiming the law is in force until heaven and earth disappear!!!!
Heaven and earth still exist.
Therefore the law is in place.

Without the law there is no sin!!
Wiggle around that concept
Therefore the law is still in place.

Those words are extremely plain.

 

[graceNpeace]

Something you ignore. In the Old Testament sacrifices were made every year to remove the past years sins from the person. Those sins were breaking the law! The preferred sacrifice was an unblemished Lamb. Another name of Jesus is the Lamb of God. He was the Unblemished Lamb of God sacrificed for our sins. All because of that pesky law no one can keep!!

Please explain how we can sin if there is no law. By definition it is breaking the law!!!

What Jesus did is to remove the penalty of breaking the law for those who accept Him as savior. Thus at judgement time His blood covers our sins.

Those who reject Him will at judgement time be judged about their breaking the law

I ignore nothing!
The Law that you are referring to only applied to the nation of Israel.
The parties to the Sinaitic covenant were God and Israel - no one else!

However, the epistle to the Romans, clearly explains that judgement for sin comes upon all mankind...
Those who were under the Torah will be judged according to the demands of the Torah!
Those who were not under the Torah, nearly all of mankind, were and are also judged - APART from the Torah!!!!!!

Paul makes it VERY clear that sin was present BEFORE the Law was given at Mount Sinai and the effect of the Law, for Israel anyway, was to make sin "exceedingly sinful" Romans 7:13.

For someone who is so hung up on the Law you seem to know very little about the Biblical concepts.
One most certainly DOES NOT need the Torah to know what sin is, to sin, and be judged for that sin!
Try reading reading Genesis chapter 3 as an introduction to this concept....

 

[JaumeJ]

Greek was spoken due to the recent ,historically, Greek empire, but among the people of the nations closest to Israel, it was Aramaic according to my studies

You seem to forget Greek was lingua frank then. There were more than Jews there. Remember the spirit descending and people started talking in tongues and others heard them in their own language. Go back to the drawing board and try again.