Let's Take a Deeper Look at this Hyper Stuff

[Grandpa]

Worse yet is the cloak of self righteousness. That's not a back-handed insult towards you, sister, that's merely the 800 lb. gorilla always sitting in the CC chat room.

Its hard to not have the same contempt for the things that our Lord has contempt for.

But the Lord does warn us to remove the plank in our own eye before removing the splinter in our brothers eye.

What's weird is our brother doesn't even want us to take that splinter out in the first place...

But we see it and want to help so bad... Its not our job. Dang it. Because I think I would be pretty good at it. Splinter removal specialist.

 

[PeterJens]

"Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others."

I agree. We all suffer from projection. The difference is I openly admit to all my sins
and failures, my passions, my desires and I bring them to the Lord.

It took me a long time to discover I hid anger from myself. It was like it would tear
me apart until I started to acknowledge what made me annoyed and expressed it.
Over time the mountain disappeared and I became normal.

It is something most have not even begun to explore in themselves, which is why
you think this an aggressive point to make against me, but shows why I thank you
for making it, because if I had said it, you would think I was making a point rather
than a request to seek Christ and knowledge of sinful passions within.

Christ and the cross set free love within to conquer and answer the passions of
the heart, and bring them into balance.

 

[Willie-T]

Your post got me to wondering about all the debate and discussion we do here. Do you know of even one person who has changed their position due to any of this? It was good to find out where everyone stood, but trying to change each other's views?

Maybe the people that haven't made up their mind just listen and read but don't post.

Well, some months ago, I quit carrying a pistol because of things brought up here.

And just a day ago, I was brought to the realization that me calling same-sex people "Homosexual" was really just a veiled slam, and I determined to, instead, refer to them as GAY, even though it is difficult for me to do.

 

[garee]

I would agree. The gifts of the Spirit are twofold as one purpose to glorify God . Given to the one that offers the gospel as moved by the will of God not seen , and the hearer who believes in respect to the same mutual faith of Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God. . . They are never one sided to venerate or glory in one self. In that way the faith of Christ establishes it as a gift from Him, never attributed to those he sends or those who receive it.

Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the “mutual faith(Christ’s) both of you and me. Rom 1:10

 

[LaurenTM]

Worse yet is the cloak of self righteousness. That's not a back-handed insult towards you, sister, that's merely the 800 lb. gorilla always sitting in the CC chat room.

has anyone tried bananas?

lots and lots of bananas?

 

[LaurenTM]

You, dear Sister, remind me of . . .


me.

proof I am on here too much.... LOL!

 

[LaurenTM]

Question: How is it you think you know the desires of other people's private lives?

you answered your own question here:

it truly must be a fervent and burning desire within the hearts of some people to strongly want to go out and do what they accuse others of, for them to constantly accuse other people of doing the things they whisper about in the corners of their mind...er.... darkened closets

disclaimer: editor reserves the right to do what editors do; not withstanding the 'thou shalt not change the meaning' clause

 

[oyster67]

Well, some months ago, I quit carrying a pistol because of things brought up here.

And just a day ago, I was brought to the realization that me calling same-sex people "Homosexual" was really just a veiled slam, and I determined to, instead, refer to them as GAY, even though it is difficult for me to do.

Really, do they prefer to be referred to as 'Gay'. Is the word 'Lesbian' also a slam?

 

[Willie-T]

Really, do they prefer to be referred to as 'Gay'. Is the word 'Lesbian' also a slam?

Yeah, pretty much, "Gay" is the only term that seems to be acceptable across the board.

 

[LaurenTM]

Yeah, pretty much, "Gay" is the only term that seems to be acceptable across the board.

I am trying really really hard to refrain from saying 'I am happy for you'

I really am....

 

[DP]

I agree that Paul says grace is NOT a license to sin and no one that I have seen has ever said that. We are responsible with what we do with these bodies while on this earth as we hold this treasure in us ( Christ Himself ) in this earthen vessel.

And no one says that no one can sin as we can yield to the flesh. But as far as being righteous in our new man in Christ. There is no question. The new creation in Christ- has been created in righteousness and holiness. The real you in Christ the inner man will never be more "righteous" then the day you received Christ and were born-again.

There are fruits of righteousness but that is a different subject.

The understanding of the new creation in Christ and the new identity of the believer is paramount to living the true Christian life.


Here it says our spirit ( the inner person that is a new creation in Christ ) is alive because of righteousness that it is it.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin,yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Here righteousness is a gift - you don't earn it.

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

We have grace reigning in our lives because of righteousness in us.

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21[/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Here righteousness comes by faith.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Here when we believe - we are righteousness.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

We are in the kingdom of God.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17[/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Here it says that God made us righteousness in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

This says we have become the righteousness of Christ ( this is called a dependent clause in the greek - it is determined as fulfilled because Christ became sin )

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Believers are called righteousness.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


Here it is saying that "righteousness comes by Christ".

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Here we have the breastplate of righteousness - which is the armor of God that we are to be strong in.

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

This talks about the new man in Christ - the new creation.

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Ok..that's enough..there are tons more....

That response does... show you are thinking of it in terms of automatic righteousness that can never be lost. That's not what Paul taught. That instead is from some mystical idea created by men.

Look at the believer in 1 Corinthians 5 that was having sex with his own mother to see how Paul treated that one, and the church members there who didn't do their duty in casting that one out from among them.

1 Cor 5:1-6
5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
KJV

Why would Paul say, "...that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus"? I will tell you...

Our Lord Jesus warned us about being assigned to the "outer darkness" when He returns (Matt.8; Matt.22; Matt.25). That's not just about the non-believer, especially as He showed with the unprofitable servant example and the five foolish virgins of Matt.25.

In Revelation 22:14-15, we are shown the wicked in a place of separation outside the gates of the holy city, and that is for the time of Christ's 1,000 years reign (even though it's found written in Rev.22). That is the "outer darkness" He was talking about which is for that 1,000 years time.

That is where Paul was talking about for that believer who was having sex with his own mother, when he said that his spirit MAY be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (i.e., the 1,000 years of Rev.20). In other words, by that person's act Paul cast him out, and was ready to be done with that sinner. Some suggest that sinner may have repented per hints in later Chapters and was accepted back into the congregation again. We don't know that for sure.

What is important is that Paul showed what can happen to a believer who practices such kind of immoral behavior. Paul was judging that one based on God's law, because that is where that kind of sin is shown to be an abomination to The LORD.

One of the problems with the hyper-grace movement is most of their preachers are not even aware of the events to take place in Christ's future 1,000 years reign involving believers on Him that fall away like that. They will be assigned to the place of separation where the wicked dead (spiritually dead) are in that time, and stand in judgment throughout the whole... 1,000 years (see Ezekiel 44). Those will not... be allowed to approach Jesus in that time.

Does that mean our Lord Jesus will forget that believer Paul cast out? No, of course not; but their status during the future 1,000 years is not going to be a happy time.

 

[Willie-T]

I am trying really really hard to refrain from saying 'I am happy for you'

I really am....

Well, I'm happy for me. Not just because perhaps a gay person, or two may come to know Jesus because of something I say to them, but mainly because a prejudicial sickness within me that I didn't believe could exist has been exposed, and I can at least admit it now. The future will reveal how well I manage to stay above it.

 

[Willie-T]

Really, do they prefer to be referred to as 'Gay'. Is the word 'Lesbian' also a slam?

It's not so much whether, technically, any particular "word" is a slam, or not... but more, that I stubbornly refused to use the term they, themselves preferred to be called. I (perhaps, not as subconsciously as I would like to think) needed to put them into a derogatory classification in my own mind to keep them seen as "less-than" because I thought they were perverts.... and, of course, I was above such things. I have come to realize I am simply deviant and perverse in my own way that I have decreed is "OK."

 

[Grace777x70]

That response does... show you are thinking of it in terms of automatic righteousness that can never be lost. That's not what Paul taught. That instead is from some mystical idea created by men.

Look at the believer in 1 Corinthians 5 that was having sex with his own mother to see how Paul treated that one, and the church members there who didn't do their duty in casting that one out from among them.

1 Cor 5:1-6
5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
KJV

Why would Paul say, "...that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus"? I will tell you...

Our Lord Jesus warned us about being assigned to the "outer darkness" when He returns (Matt.8; Matt.22; Matt.25). That's not just about the non-believer, especially as He showed with the unprofitable servant example and the five foolish virgins of Matt.25.

In Revelation 22:14-15, we are shown the wicked in a place of separation outside the gates of the holy city, and that is for the time of Christ's 1,000 years reign (even though it's found written in Rev.22). That is the "outer darkness" He was talking about which is for that 1,000 years time.

That is where Paul was talking about for that believer who was having sex with his own mother, when he said that his spirit MAY be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (i.e., the 1,000 years of Rev.20). In other words, by that person's act Paul cast him out, and was ready to be done with that sinner. Some suggest that sinner may have repented per hints in later Chapters and was accepted back into the congregation again. We don't know that for sure.

What is important is that Paul showed what can happen to a believer who practices such kind of immoral behavior. Paul was judging that one based on God's law, because that is where that kind of sin is shown to be an abomination to The LORD.

One of the problems with the hyper-grace movement is most of their preachers are not even aware of the events to take place in Christ's future 1,000 years reign involving believers on Him that fall away like that. They will be assigned to the place of separation where the wicked dead (spiritually dead) are in that time, and stand in judgment throughout the whole... 1,000 years (see Ezekiel 44). Those will not... be allowed to approach Jesus in that time.

Does that mean our Lord Jesus will forget that believer Paul cast out? No, of course not; but their status during the future 1,000 years is not going to be a happy time.

The spirit of the man in 1 Cor. 5 was saved because his spirit is in righteousness. This was for this one person because they were boasting in what he was doing for some unknown reason - maybe they were saying "See, we are under grace which means we can sin all we want now?"

All the other ones in Corinth which are the ones going to the temple prostitutes for sex and the others causing divisions and strife, the ones getting drunk at communion and not saving any food for the others.

To all these - Paul told them who they were in Christ and there was no discipline like the guy who had his father's wife and the Corinthians were boasting in.

Romans 8:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

We don't go in and out of righteousness because of sin. Where does the Lord Jesus who is in us go when someone sins? Sin is confined to the flesh. What about the Holy Spirit who Jesus said would be with us forever. ( John 14:16-17 )

What about Paul saying that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit? ( what is He sealing us from? )

Does Christ leave us when we sin? Of course not - it's foolishness and it is calling Jesus a liar when we say that the Holy Spirit leaves us when we sin. We do not lose righteousness because we are on spirit with the Lord and joined to Him.

At what point do we lose righteousness? At what point does Jesus lie to us again and the Holy Spirit leaves us?

All your other examples of the ten virgins and the unprofitable servant have been answered before but if I have time later I will post them. Basically these are not true believers in Christ as one can see by the true "context" of those scriptures.

To say that the Holy Spirit leaves our spirit - our new man in Christ - which has been created in righteousness and holiness ( Eph. 4:24 ) is to call the Lord Jesus Christ a liar. I'm a "believer" in Him and His perfect sacrifice for us.

has been created in righteousness and holiness is in aorist passive - passive means something has happened to you from an outside source - we don't do it.

I say preach and teach the grace of God so that we can grow up in the Lord as only grace teaches us how to live godly in this present world.

 

[JGIG]

Salvation is in the hands of people, as God as done all He's going to do about salvation, He sent Jesus.

9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”
(from Rev. 7)
​

God's Spirit is active in salvation, convicting the world of their sin and producing His Fruit of love and service in believers to open doors to share His Good News with the Lost.

Now it's up to people to receive and keep salvation.

Receive, yes, keep, no:

6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ. (from Phil. 1)

​

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. (from Eph. 1)​

The Good News doesn't become Bad News after we receive Christ - we do not have to earn the maintenance of what God has freely given to us. No, as God's children, He loves us, nurtures us, and trains us. And the more we learn to trust and rest in Him, more and more of His Fruit is produced in/through us, which in turn furthers the Kingdom of God.

-JGIG

 

[UnderGrace]

We don't go in and out of righteousness because of sin.

If only.....if only, they (those who deny imputed sealed righteousness) could understand and believe this one line.

God views us through the righteousness of His Son Jesus that is in us.

This is how He sees us ......."For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God."

 

[JGIG]

Forgiveness is based on the blood of Jesus Christ, not on my asking or begging for forgiveness or coming to God and saying, "I repent, and confess, and will try harder next time!"

When I am in Christ, I am ongoingly moment by moment covered by the blood of Jesus Christ (I John 1:7).

So, do you think that since you "can't step out" - that your salvation is in you own hands and neither God nor the devil can throw you out no matter how much you sin?

Chester, can you reconcile these two contradictory statements you've made, please?

-JGIG

 

[Magenta]

Well, I'm happy for me. Not just because perhaps a gay person, or two may come to know Jesus because of something I say to them, but mainly because a prejudicial sickness within me that I didn't believe could exist has been exposed, and I can at least admit it now. The future will reveal how well I manage to stay above it.

I do not understand how homosexual is a slur. Are we offended to be called heterosexual? Well, it has been a few years since I hung out with my gay friends on any kind of regular basis, but I never heard them say anything about the word homosexual being an affront to them. A lesbian friend of mine used to lend me her car when she went out of town, and she had a sticker on the back proclaiming that she was a lesbian Wiccan, so I can't see her being offended by the word lesbian either. Have things really changed that much recently? One thing I do know is that sex and gender should not be confused. For instance, people used to say sexual reassignment when it is gender reassignment, in the case of people undergoing surgery. Sorry for responding to this issue here, I do not mean to derail the thread...

 

[DP]

The spirit of the man in 1 Cor. 5 was saved because his spirit is in righteousness. This was for this one person because they were boasting in what he was doing for some unknown reason - maybe they were saying "See, we are under grace which means we can sin all we want now?"

Try reading what Paul said again. He said, "may"... be saved. That's conditional. The KJV translators wouldn't have made that conditional on a whim.

 

[LaurenTM]

Well, I'm happy for me. Not just because perhaps a gay person, or two may come to know Jesus because of something I say to them, but mainly because a prejudicial sickness within me that I didn't believe could exist has been exposed, and I can at least admit it now. The future will reveal how well I manage to stay above it.

yeah I knew you were serious...I was joking and thought after the 5 mins was up maybe should delete..

I've worked with gay men..they do not really bother me...

I have been hit on a few times by gay women...I want to punch them...go figure

I think 'straight' people have just as many issues and many Christians are in denial regarding their attitudes

If I were not a believer, I would probably just say 'well that's their choice'..it can be a very complicated issue unless we simply remember that absolutely no one is any less sinful then another. I will go so far as to say I am not convinced that homosexuality is simply a matter of a choice of a sinful lifestyle