Let's Take a Deeper Look at this Hyper Stuff

[garee]

Originally Posted by DP

I don't want you or others to misunderstand that Romans 6 Scripture from Apostle Paul that I posted. Paul was making it plain there that Christ's Grace is not a license to sin, and that as non-believers when we yielded our members (i.e., flesh) to do sin, now we are called to yield our members (our flesh) to righteousness and holiness, which is about how we live.

But some of you seem to think Paul was saying that just by BELIEVING The Gospel we entered some mystical state of automatic righteousness where we can no longer sin, and that kind of idea is NOT what Paul was teaching there.

I would agree its not a license to sin. Its a license that shows we have forgiveness. There is no limbo in between. Either in the Hebrews 6 boat or not. The better things that accompany salvation (redemption ) or not.

 

[Willie-T]

well, I don't want YOU or ANYONE else to keep repeating the fallacy that people who accept and understand the grace of God believe we can do whatever we want

your statement is sheer nonsense. real and complete and utter nonsense

some of you seem to think you can create an alternate reality by repeating the same fallacy over and over

it ain't working bro

it's just tiresome, sad and oh so been there done that

As I have suggested before, it truly must be a fervent and burning desire within the hearts of some people to strongly want to go out and do all sorts of evil, for them to constantly accuse other people of doing the things they seem to dream about.

I really do wonder about some people whose minds seem to just constantly go to that sort of thing. The Bible says, "As a man thinketh, so is he."

 

[PeterJens]

well, I don't want YOU or ANYONE else to keep repeating the fallacy that people who accept and understand the grace of God believe we can do whatever we want

Lauren - Is it wrong to say you believe whatever sin you do commit, it is already forgiven, so as
far as God is concerned you are guilt free and innocent?

If one assents to Gods love and morality, then our hearts are set on obeying it as part of our
nature of walking in the Spirit. Paul calls this being a slave to the law of the Spirit.

The law of sin and death, is the world of sinful passions. In Christ these have been put to death.

I was wondering how a passion or emotional desire could be countered by an idea. It then struck
me the more you emotionally respond to Christ and the cross, the more ones passions are balanced
with love, overwhelming, impossible to stop, love.

The problem is though people talk about Gods amazing grace, His get out of free card, this love is
not talked about much, or the conquering of sinful passions, but rather the passions are still very
much at work, just we are not condemned by God. This is not quite what I would have expected
from a gospel that claims to be authentic and victorious, and realising what Gods grace truly is.

Now some are testifying to this victory, but they are not specific to your group or theology, so I
suspect realising Christ in our hearts is more about our real relationship to the Lord, and less about
how we frame it.

 

[LaurenTM]

Hey Petie?

me and God got it covered

so, thanks, but no thanks

my posts are all over the forum and they are consistent in what I state I believe

so, no, I don't want to play 20 questions with you and then in the end, you slap me with one of you accusations and tell me I am wrong

just so old...I basically know everything you will say and how you will think you are sneaking up on me

tiresome

 

[LaurenTM]

As I have suggested before, it truly must be a fervent and burning desire within the hearts of some people to strongly want to go out and do all sorts of evil, for them to constantly accuse other people of doing the things they seem to dream about.

I really do wonder about some people whose minds seem to just constantly go to that sort of thing. The Bible says, "As a man thinketh, so is he."

the old adage that truth can be created by a lie, seems to be the mantra over some posts round here these parts


I also like 'some people's minds are like cement. all mixed up and set.'

 

[psalm6819]

I don't want you or others to misunderstand that Romans 6 Scripture from Apostle Paul that I posted. Paul was making it plain there that Christ's Grace is not a license to sin, and that as non-believers when we yielded our members (i.e., flesh) to do sin, now we are called to yield our members (our flesh) to righteousness and holiness, which is about how we live.

But some of you seem to think Paul was saying that just by BELIEVING The Gospel we entered some mystical state of automatic righteousness where we can no longer sin, and that kind of idea is NOT what Paul was teaching there.

Close, but no cigar, the sin is not imputed to us and that's EXACTLY what Paul was teaching ......

 

[PeterJens]

Hey Petie?
me and God got it covered
so, thanks, but no thanks
my posts are all over the forum and they are consistent in what I state I believe
so, no, I don't want to play 20 questions with you and then in the end, you slap me with one of you accusations and tell me I am wrong
just so old...I basically know everything you will say and how you will think you are sneaking up on me
tiresome

I am sorry you feel this way. I do not sneak up on anyone. I try and follow the logic and structure
of beliefs people hold to. I have my own belief and sense of security and knowledge, but I have
failings also.

What I discover is going over the points often brings up something new.
Today was Pauls definition of the flesh, "sinful passions"

He talks about the mind ascenting to Gods law, while being fought against by Pauls desires,
and without Christ loosing. This is a very emotional subject, but few realise this is the
subject he is tackling.

Now some here have testified how God changed them, through healing and the Spirit. They
understand the gift of healing in their lives, and Jesus's love, His embrace.

But in our discussions I have become aware many talk the same religious words but their
lives and reality are very different. It helps to explore what this is so we know where people
are coming from. Some have ptsd legalism backgrounds, while others are just carefree individuals.
while others have no real morality or self preservation at all.

That makes this all very difficult to know we mean the same things at all. This is where I seek
clarity and understanding.

 

[Willie-T]

I think some people just keep sprinkling what they hope will be perceived as fresh birdseed... till they can get another clear shot at intended targets.

 

[LaurenTM]

I think some people just keep sprinkling what they hope will be perceived as fresh birdseed... till they can get another clear shot at intended targets.

LOL!

somehow that brings to mind this verse:

Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. Matthew 24:28

 

[PeterJens]

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.
2 John 1:6

The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.
1 John 3:8

Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:22

Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.
1 Peter 3:15

 

[PeterJens]

Hyper

flesh - "the sinful passions aroused by the law" Rom 7:5

Paul preaches Christ working in us through the Spirit puts to death these sinful
passions.

My experience of many people, though they are aware passions exist, they ignore them
or deny them, and so they dominate their private lives so rather than Christ setting
people free they are overwhelmed by desires.

This happens everywhere, and is not restricted to theology or belief.
But in Jesus we have a hope of victory. But only if one begins to being honest about
the battle within and the success and failures that happen. This is why repentance,
confession and accepting forgiveness is so important in our walk, yet it appears some
deny this everyday reality.

 

[Grandpa]

As I have suggested before, it truly must be a fervent and burning desire within the hearts of some people to strongly want to go out and do all sorts of evil, for them to constantly accuse other people of doing the things they seem to dream about.

I really do wonder about some people whose minds seem to just constantly go to that sort of thing. The Bible says, "As a man thinketh, so is he."

But they are working so hard at trying to constrain themselves.

Its not fair that some would preach stop trying and start relying on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Can the Lord really constrain them better than they could constrain theirselves? Apparently not to the un-believers still working.


Once a person realizes that the focus of trying to abstain is what causes a person to fail its easier to let go and focus on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 4:8 [SUP] [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Pretty much never watch the news and if you pick up a paper probably only read the funnies... lol

 

[Willie-T]

But they are working so hard at trying to constrain themselves.

Its not fair that some would preach stop trying and start relying on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Can the Lord really constrain them better than they could constrain theirselves? Apparently not to the un-believers still working.


Once a person realizes that the focus of trying to abstain is what causes a person to fail its easier to let go and focus on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 4:8 [SUP] [/SUP]Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Pretty much never watch the news and if you pick up a paper probably only read the funnies... lol

I think this is more true than they want to admit. There is probably a lot of animosity over them feeling they are "doing the Lord's work" by working so hard to make themselves righteous, while we simply let the Lord do His own work in us as He sees fit.

 

[Willie-T]

Hyper

flesh - "the sinful passions aroused by the law" Rom 7:5

Paul preaches Christ working in us through the Spirit puts to death these sinful
passions.

My experience of many people, though they are aware passions exist, they ignore them
or deny them, and so they dominate their private lives so rather than Christ setting
people free they are overwhelmed by desires.

This happens everywhere, and is not restricted to theology or belief.
But in Jesus we have a hope of victory. But only if one begins to being honest about
the battle within and the success and failures that happen. This is why repentance,
confession and accepting forgiveness is so important in our walk, yet it appears some
deny this everyday reality.

Question: How is it you think you know the desires of other people's private lives?

 

[FreeNChrist]

Question: How is it you think you know the desires of other people's private lives?

"Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others."

 

[Utah]

well if it's false teaching, then what is the fuss all about!!!

I'm not pretending I don't sin. I call Jesus Lord NOW because He IS. I don't make Him Lord and I don't call living a sinful lifestyle hyper grace

I call it SIN and that is what God calls it too

people are missing the truth of grace in their rush to hide behind what makes them feel safe

hiding behind scripture and expressing shock at the fall of believers is, frankly, appalling

where is the concern of the so called church? seems people would rather point knobby fingers and praise God they are not like that

and doesn't that sound familiar

Worse yet is the cloak of self righteousness. That's not a back-handed insult towards you, sister, that's merely the 800 lb. gorilla always sitting in the CC chat room.

 

[PeterJens]

when you sin, you are giving in to your natural inclination; ONLY the blood of Christ can cleanse you of that and that ONLY as you believe...have faith in and trust in...the blood of Christ to REMOVE the consequences of sin

The above summarises the whole problem with this hyper faith.
Everything is a mystical experience, Christ cleanses us from the consequences of sin.

Now the scripture talks about conviction, repentance, confession and forgiveness.
This is something the heart and mind have to be involved with. The Holy Spirit and
Christ bring healing and redemption. But it is a whole package.

Getting angry at us for understanding and believing scripture does not change the
realities.

I keep on agreeing with the intention but see the content is missing. It is the form
of the faith but not its power, it is the praise and celebration of Christs love and
victory but not walking in it.

 

[PeterJens]

Question: How is it you think you know the desires of other people's private lives?

Willie - How long have you known people, spoken to them without all the social hiding?

At least 50% of ministers at conferences have gone to hotels and watched porn.
The church is rife with divorce, immorality and conflict. Greed in terms of the health
wealth gospel pours out of Christian TV channels.

And I have seen people ripped apart by the conflicts within. I also know my own
struggles and desires. One of the basic psychological problems in life is called
walling off emotions that are not acceptable.

So because I know myself and the condition of the heart

For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.
Matt 15:19

But maybe everyone is perfect and I alone am the sinner in need of a saviour?
But hallelujah He has found me.

 

[oyster67]

I think some people just keep sprinkling what they hope will be perceived as fresh birdseed... till they can get another clear shot at intended targets.

Your post got me to wondering about all the debate and discussion we do here. Do you know of even one person who has changed their position due to any of this? It was good to find out where everyone stood, but trying to change each other's views?

Maybe the people that haven't made up their mind just listen and read but don't post.

 

[Utah]

well, I don't want YOU or ANYONE else to keep repeating the fallacy that people who accept and understand the grace of God believe we can do whatever we want

your statement is sheer nonsense. real and complete and utter nonsense

some of you seem to think you can create an alternate reality by repeating the same fallacy over and over

it ain't working bro

it's just tiresome, sad and oh so been there done that

You, dear Sister, remind me of . . .


me.