Mark of the Beast.

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Jan 24, 2013
944
2
0
#21
yes i will listen.

I would love to know your thoughts on this
The beast is carnal man. The one out of the sea are the various world governmental systems. The one on land are the leaders and those high esteemed in various religions.

The mark is sin. Buying and selling consists of anything by which a man can profit from whether it be by money or religion. As I've repeated over and over here now, the earth is in a state of material abundance! But without this mark of sin and the love of money and profit, one can neitherbuy or sell.

On the spiritual side of this, if I say that all men will be saved to the world this is profitless. Though we all speak on faith because none o rd us have died to truly see what happens after. It's not the people's fault that they cannot believe. It is because the religious leaders "look like a lamb but speak like a dragon." So the people when ensnared by them are "twice the servant of hell. "

The world knew Jesus once according to the flesh, but it knows Him no more according to it. He ended animal sacrifices, meaning that He showed He accepted all men. Men are like beasts in which the priests and leaders of various cultures and religions would "sacrifice" according to the workings of the law.

Now we know what sin is described as in the bible. But there is one definition the bible use that's seldom used. "That anything NOT of faith is sin."

We are commanded now to rest in the Lord of the sabbath. That every man is taught by God as his body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. We are to do no works of the law. It is a holy convocation meaning that having been assured that we are saved from the power of death, no man needs to be told what to do or how to live. It's not pieces of paper in a court house keeping us civil. If that were so there'd be no crime according to the law.

We are simply commanded now to love one another as He loved us, but what has happened us continuing to build upon what Jesus took to the grave and have become transgressers. "For as many as are under the law are under the curse." Crime, murder, scandals, the economies, wars, famine, the sword, etc.

Now when I say rest I don't mean sit at home all day. This is our love feast. We are to release all those from jail, release all people of their debts and declare the world common for all. If you've read any of my previous posts I talk alot about 18 million homes being empty in america with only 3 million homeless. You do the math, but because we continue to build on what was destroyed, the curse is on us. People starving but the earth has enough food to live on now for 12 billion people (we only have 7 billion). Cars sit on lots, phones tvs and computers in stores , with no one to but them. Yet technology improves daily forcing more and more out of work to sit "idle."

"Shall we continue to sin that grace may abound?" But this is what is happening. Despite the leaders of the cultures and religions and us who are eager to listen to their music, we see the great abundance in the land! But because of the love of money we cannot buy or sell without the mark or allegiance to these systems of debt and work. Bringing upon us the curse with it.

Even religion pledges it's allegiance to this global system. If I were to say that all were saved to the people of these religions they'd vehemently deny it according to the "image" we rebuilt that being the works of the law. But to the leaders who teach these people to "worship" this collective image, they know better! They know that by the law they are guilty, but they choose to go the way of Baalim.

See if the people believed that we all are truly saved, there'd be no collection plate to count in whatever church one may go to. Death is profit from wars to religion. The fear of it keeps us going to work for a "living."

To hate your brother makes one a murderer. Bottom line is that means that you should treat everyone how you want to be treated, even by God. But look at the hate here and in religion. Again the earth is in ABUNDANCE and there are millions that are homeless, sick and starving! The world is full of murderers who are "killed" or ostracized from society whether religiously (gays, other faiths,sunday church goers etc) or secular (rich, poor, black, white etc). All because of the love of money and PROFIT....


If you are interested in more or would like to go more in depth, just let me know.

I pray you listen with an open mind, but if not I understand.

I'm am learning more and more that I'm talking to the wrong people. Israel will not listen....
 
M

Moonwatcher

Guest
#22
Thanks Gotime, I am pretty sure you are talking about Sabbath law - but how does this put a physical mark on your forehead or hand if you don't observe the Sabbath?


I have heard many things about what the mark of the beast is, but what does the bible say?

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

notice that this mark is in the right hand and or in the forehead. There is a number of the beast but we are interested in the mark itself. there is no buying and selling etc but again we are interested in the mark itself.

Revelation 14 gives more insight.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,


Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

notice that the mark is connected with those who worship the beast and his image. what image? we need to know because this mark is connected with worshiping the beast. It is in direct opposition to the call of the first angel.

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

This angel calls us to worship Him who created the earth etc. before this there is a group that have a name in their foreheads.

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

so Gods people have their Father's name written in their foreheads.

so we have a group that don't receive this mark

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

They did not worship the beast or his image or his mark.

Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

do you remember a place where Gods people were being forced to worship an image?

Dan 3:1 Nebuchadnezzar the king made an image of gold, whose height was threescore cubits, and the breadth thereof six cubits: he set it up in the plain of Dura, in the province of Babylon.

interesting that the messurments of the Statue is 60 cubits high and 6 cubits wide.

Dan 3:10 Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, shall fall down and worship the golden image:
Dan 3:11 And whoso falleth not down and worshippeth, that he should be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.

We know the story, shadrach,Meshach and Abednego did not bow down because the very act would break the commandments of God. and God protected them in this.

So we learn that there was a law passed by the state that went against the commandments of God. notice the difference between those who get the mark of the beast and the saints.




Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Those who are saints keep the commandments of God.

notice the Old testament mark of Gods people.

Just after the reading of the 10 commandments in chapter 5 it says this.

Deu 6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
Deu 6:2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
Deu 6:3 Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Deu 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

So the 10 commandments are to be a sign on the hand and the forehead. hmmm sound familiar.

lets put this together, the mark of the beast involves worship and the mark of God involves obeying Gods commandments which are worship to God.

These are in contrast

1Ki 9:6 But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:

2Ch 7:19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;

Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

There is no missing that the mark of the best is in opposition to Gods law. what part of Gods law is most attacked today?
Could this be the image?


Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws...

What law has to do with time?

I don't have time to make all the connections, nor am I trying to prove my point. rather for the true seeker study it out and see where it leads. blessings.




Isa 8:13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
Isa 8:14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Isa 8:15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
Isa 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#23
The right hand in scripture is your actions and the forehead is your mind. In other words Gods law is in our mind and our actions show it.

People assume its a physical mark, its not but it does have physical manifestations. love to others and love to God in all our words and actions.

This is the work of the Holy Spirit who writes the law in our minds. and thus by faith we become doers of the word. faith without works is dead.
 
M

Moonwatcher

Guest
#24
The right hand in scripture is your actions and the forehead is your mind. In other words Gods law is in our mind and our actions show it.

People assume its a physical mark, its not but it does have physical manifestations. love to others and love to God in all our words and actions.

This is the work of the Holy Spirit who writes the law in our minds. and thus by faith we become doers of the word. faith without works is dead.

Yes but how does my local supermarket or Kmart stop me buying with a Spiritual mark. How does it actually play out in the market place? This needs to be answered.
 
P

PeteWaldo

Guest
#25
Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

If we consider John's assignment shouldn't we be looking at John's "whole world", that is, take an ethnographic view of what John had seen, was seeing, and was prophesying to come thereafter? This ethnographic view is also suggested by Strong's:

world
New Testament Greek Definition:
3625 oikoumene {oy-kou-men'-ay}
feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by
implication of 1093); TDNT - 5:157,674; n f
AV - world 14, earth 1; 15
1) the inhabited earth
1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in
distinction from the lands of the barbarians

1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire
1c) the whole inhabited earth, the world
1d) the inhabitants of the earth, men
2) the universe, the world

Let's adopt that more scholarly view for a moment, and consider that bible prophecy is more about God's people, in the context of the land described by Strong's, rather than about Peoria Illinois or New York city.
So let's look again at the state of John's "whole world" today:



In the map above we can see that the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom occupies the same geographical seat as did Daniel's successive kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. Iraq, Iran and Syria-Lebanon. While the false prophet Muhammad's followers even murder each other over doctrinal differences, the fact of the matter is they are all perfectly united under the false prophet Muhammad, and his Quran, through the spirit of antichrist. For a Muslim to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even pray in Jesus' name, constitutes the ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN in Islam. It doesn't get any more antichrist than that. Being required to deny the Son of God as an article of faith in the false Muhammad alone.

Tens of millions of Christians also understand the first 6 of John's 8 kings/beasts to have been Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and the Roman Empire as the "one is" beast of John's day. But that's when the wheels seem to fall off of most views, rather than simply turning to the historical record.

The historical fact of the matter is that the the Roman Empire fell in 639 AD at the hands of the Islamic First Jihad. Also the 7th head of the leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13.
The first jihad suffered a mortal wound and did not recover until healed by western wealth transfer through oil development and purchase. The head wounded to death and healed. Here's a Reformer on the subject:

"….. it is said, five of the seven Kings are fallen, and one is, and another is not yet come; and the Beast that was and is not, being wounded to death with a sword, he is the eighth, and of the seven: he was therefore a collateral part of the seventh." - Isaac Newton

Think he would have had any trouble with the identity of the "beast"?

Now we can see that outside of the tiny little strip of land where folks are protected by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State, almost everyone in John's "whole world" follows THE false prophet Muhammad. Virtually everyone in John's "whole world" carries the name of the Islamic beast:

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Thus through an ethnographic hermeneutic, we can see that this is a fulfilled prophecy. No need to wait for Hal Lindsay's microchip to be implanted in the hands of residents of Peoria Illinois. And of course now that Gaza has been turned over to the antichrist followers of the antichrist false prophet Muhammad - the Hamas "democracy" - it is well on the way to being just another sharia law ruled, church and synagogue burning and Christian and Jew murdering, little girl circumcising, multiple wife and concubine beating, slave making and trading, imperialistic conquering Islamic slave state. Secular international powers working to convert the last of the non-purple area into an Islamic slave state.

"Christians can only continue living safely in the Gaza Strip if they accept Islamic law, including a ban on alcohol and on women roaming publicly without proper head coverings, an Islamist militant leader in Gaza told WND in an exclusive interview."
"This missionary activity is endangering the entire Christian community in Gaza,"
"His comments come after gunmen on Sunday attacked Gaza's Latin Church and adjacent Rosary Sisters School, reportedly destroying crosses, bibles, pictures of Jesus and furniture and equipment. The attackers also stole a number of computers."
Christians warned: Accept Islamic law

"'Arab Spring' becoming Nightmare For Christians":
"Christians can In the case of Ayyad, who managed the only Christian bookstore in Gaza, his body was discovered riddled with gunshot and stab wounds."
"The witnesses said they saw three armed men, two of whom were wearing masks, beat Ayyad repeatedly with clubs and the butts of their guns while they accused him of attempting to spread Christianity in Gaza. The witnesses said that after sustaining the beating, Ayyad was shot by all three men."
‘Arab Spring’ becoming nightmare for Christians

Not that it matters, if you want to consider a physical mark:

2a12cbb0.jpg

One Islamic cult even uses a gematria to declare the number 666 to demonstrate the perfection of the Quran and its "messenger" Muhammad. Scroll down on this link for example, for the following quote:
Universal Unity - 8

"This book is the Quran; and the Quran is '666.'"

It isn't difficult to see when we apply the traditional historicist approach uniformly, to all bible prophecy.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61666-mark-beast.html
 
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P

PeteWaldo

Guest
#26
Meanwhile, what's going on in John Darby's "revived Roman Empire" where "The" "Antichrist" and the false prophet - who is apparently supposed to convert all those Muslims to some as yet unknown European religion in the space of 3.5 years - that took Muhammad 1400 years to accomplish?

"Muslims in Europe are increasingly converting empty Christian churches into mosques.
The proliferation of mosques housed in former churches reflects the rise of Islam as the fastest growing religion in post-Christian Europe."

"As Islam replaces Christianity as the dominant religion in Europe, more and more churches are set to become mosques, which increasingly serve not only as religious institutions but also function as the foundational political building blocks for the establishment of separate, parallel Muslim communities in Europe that are based on Islamic Sharia law."
Falling Away or Apostasy
 
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N

nathan3

Guest
#27
This thread as degraded from the original post.
 
P

peterT

Guest
#28
He has power for 42 months, he makes war with the saints, and has power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

He caused that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Caused all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads

And that No man can buy or sell without the mark

This has not happened yet.

Can you buy and sell still, YES

Is anybody trying to kill you for NOT worshiping the image of the beast, NO

Is anybody causing you to take a mark in your right hand, or in their foreheads, NO.

As the great tribulation begun, NO

Is the last 42 months here yet, NO



5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.


12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
 

gotime

Senior Member
Mar 3, 2011
3,537
88
48
#29
Yes but how does my local supermarket or Kmart stop me buying with a Spiritual mark. How does it actually play out in the market place? This needs to be answered.
This post is directed at the mark itself not the hows and whys of it all. the Book of Revelation tells us that the world will be forced into one of two groups by law. just like Daniel when the law said He could not pray to God. suddenly all those who pray to God will stand out. just like when the law was passed that everyone should worship the statue when the music plays. suddenly all those who only worshiped God stood out.

Revelation is teaching that something similar will happen at the end where laws will be made and only those who obey God will not obey these laws. they will stand out and be cut off. Study Daniel and Revelation together Daniel is prophetic, Revelation is the revealing. I wont go into the scriptures here as it digresses from the main subject which is the mark of the beast.

On that note 6 in the bible is the number of man throughout the bible. also the main number of Babylon. so what then does 666 mean?
 
T

trukin

Guest
#31
please disregard my earlier post about the bar codes...im reading more on this subject. here is another site
The Mark Of The Beast
 
P

PeteWaldo

Guest
#32
This post is directed at the mark itself not the hows and whys of it all.
Why speculate about something that is the scripture indicates is of no importance? As my prior post indicated:

Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

It's fun to create fantasy and all, but better not to engage in such future predicting fables when it comes to scripture, don't you think? Such idle speculation, along with a 19th century pop-approach to eschatology, might even cause us to miss that the prophecy may be fulfilled.

Isaac Newton: "The folly of interpreters has been to foretell times and things by this prophecy [Revelation], as if God designed to make them prophets. By this rashness they have not only exposed themselves, but brought the prophecy also into contempt. The design of God was much otherwise. He gave this and the prophecies of the Old Testament, not to gratify men's curiosities by enabling them to foreknow things, but that after they were fulfilled they might be interpreted by the event, and his own providence, not the interpreters', be then manifested thereby to the world. For the event of things predicted many ages before will then be a convincing argument that the world is governed by Providence."

Matthew Henry: "Those things of God which are now dark and obscure will hereafter be made clear, and easy to be understood. Truth is the daughter of time. Scripture prophecies will be expounded by the accomplishment of them; therefore they are given, and for that explication they are reserved. Therefore they are told us before, that, when they do come to pass, we may believe."
 
W

Widdekind

Guest
#33
Revelation is symbolic. Every image in Revelation is a symbol, which must be "translated", to determine what actual thing is meant.

For example, the Beast symbolizes the pagan Roman empire. Revelation shows you a fantastic image, which stands for something else.

Likewise, the "mark of the Beast" is a cattle-brand, symbolizing something else, namely acquiescence to the pagan Roman empire. Biblically speaking, "hands" symbolize "deeds" (things you do with your hands); and "heads" symbolize "thoughts" (what you do with your head). So:


  • Beast hand-mark = acquiescence to pagan Roman empire in deed = "go along to get along"
  • Beast head-mark = acquiescence to pagan Roman empire in thought = "buy into propaganda"

The numbered Beast (666) symbolizes Emperor Nero, whose name (Nero Caesar) numerologically sums to 666. The marks of the Beast refer to compromise with the Caesars, in deed or thought, as did the Jews who crucified Jesus, saying "they have no king but Caesar". Those Scriptures were Prophetically fulfilled in ancient times.

Presumably, Christians today would value those passages, even still, for instruction, as stressing the importance of not compromising, with secular authorities, "on pain of soul". That is what Jesus, the Messiah, of "God in heaven", seems to have stated, 2000 years ago: anyone who compromises with secular authority, in any way, for any reason, dies to "God in heaven", with no excuses or quibbling brooked -- their names are blotted from the Book of Life.

Meanwhile, secular authority will try to cattle-brand people, like tame docile-demeanored domesticated pet-people, similar to those tame animals, buyable and sellable, on petco.com (the ancient word is kine, or canaille, if anybody cares).
 
P

PeteWaldo

Guest
#34
For example, the Beast symbolizes the pagan Roman empire.
We understand the interpretation of Jesuit Luis Alcazar's 17th century counter-reformation eschatological scheme, but you state it as if it were fact.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...onal-approach-historicism-bible-prophecy.html
First, when John describes the "beast" he describes it as a leopard, with feet of a bear and mouth of a lion, but no reference to Daniel's 4th "dreadful" beast:

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

It is as plain as the nose on our faces that the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom "beast", today occupies the seat of Daniel's successive kingdom "beasts" of leopard, bear and lion, or ancient Greece, Medo-Persia and Babylon. While they even murder each other over differences in doctrine, the false prophet Muhammad's followers are all perfectly united under THE false prophet Muhammad, by his Quran, through the spirit of antichrist. The exact opposite of those of us united in the "household" of God, united through the Holy Spirit.

1ead4250.png

Now consider John's 8 kings/beasts.

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Tens of millions of Christians agree that the five fallen are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, while also agreeing that the one that "is" to John - looking through his eyes - was the Roman Empire that ruled in his day. Since he was to write things that he had seen, were, and were to come, we should take an ethnographic view of John's "whole world" in the first century as illustrated by Strong's.

world
New Testament Greek Definition:
3625 oikoumene {oy-kou-men'-ay}
feminine participle present passive of 3611 (as noun, by
implication of 1093); TDNT - 5:157,674; n f
AV - world 14, earth 1; 15
1) the inhabited earth
1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in
distinction from the lands of the barbarians

1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire
1c) the whole inhabited earth, the world
1d) the inhabitants of the earth, men
2) the universe, the world

So what kingdom had "not yet come" in John's day? The undeniable historical fact of the matter is that the Roman Empire fell to the Islamic First Jihad in 639 AD. That would make the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic empire the 7th "beast", and the 7th head of the LBL beast of Rev 13.
During its conquest of nearly the whole known world, the Islamic First Jihad suffered a mortal wound in the Battle of Tours France, after just 152 years.
It wasn't until western wealth transfer in oil development and purchase that THE false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom "beast" was healed, to begin the Islamic Second Jihad, in the image of the conquering Islamic First Jihad. Jihad is the pinnacle of worship in Islam. So the 7th and 8th beast are the same one. Wounded and healed. I don't think Newton would have missed this had he been around after the healing of the Islamic beast:

"….. it is said, five of the seven Kings are fallen, and one is, and another is not yet come; and the Beast that was and is not, being wounded to death with a sword, he is the eighth, and of the seven: he was therefore a collateral part of the seventh." - Sir Isaac Newton

1.5 billion people commanded to conquer all kingdoms, and subjugate all people in the world, to DISbelieving the crucifixion of Christ, DENYing the Son of God and REJECTing His shed blood as articles of faith in THE false prophet Muhammad.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

That's 1/4 of mankind commanded to prostrate toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca five times a day, while praying in the "vain repetitions of the heathen", in the names of the Arabian pagan deity "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad. Yet preterists go on, "oh no, no, no, that was all over and done with in the first century!" The Pope and the Vatican Council even claiming "The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God.....they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees....."

Even as a rapidly expanding 1.5 billion people are commanded to fight and subjugate the whole world to disbelieving the crucifixion of Christ, denying the Son of God and rejecting His shed blood, AS ARTICLES OF FAITH in THE false prophet Muhammad:

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#35
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THE false prophet Muhammad's antichrist Islamic empire - the final foe of God's people.

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PeteWaldo

Guest
#36
This isn't rocket science folks:

Sahih Bukhari B52 #177 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "the Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

[video=youtube;XBnciAZDoL4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBnciAZDoL4[/video]

And it certainly isn't anything new:

Qur'an 33:26 "Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things."

Mohammed's "Allah", revealed as a terrorist as well, who "took down" Yahweh's people. Just as Mohammed's followers in the cradle of his religion today, desire to kill the Jews, and "drive them into the sea".

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."
BANU QURAYZA MASSACRE

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http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel-13.html#post985301
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#37
[video=youtube;8sk3fKY9PhY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sk3fKY9PhY[/video]
 
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Widdekind

Guest
#38
We understand the interpretation of Jesuit Luis Alcazar's 17th century counter-reformation eschatological scheme, but you state it as if it were fact
Cp. Dr. Kenneth Gentry's Revelation Made Easy.


First, when John describes the "beast" he describes it as a leopard, with feet of a bear and mouth of a lion, but no reference to Daniel's 4th "dreadful" beast:

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Could we not describe such a beast as "dreadful" ?



Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
The "seven heads" refer to Julius Caesar's dynasty of Roman monarchs:


  1. Caesar
  2. Augustus
  3. Tiberias
  4. Caligula
  5. Claudius
  6. Nero
  7. Galba
  8. civil war

Nero was the 6th Caesar, whose number was 666. The "seventh head" (Galba) reigned for a short time, as Rome plunged into a civil war, without any real "head" of state, i.e. the "headless Beast as eighth king".

The first Jewish war (66-73 AD) destroyed Jerusalem (which had crucified Jesus), and ended the direct dynasty of Caesar (which lineage had authorized the Crucifixion). Those Prophesies were fulfilled in ancient times.

(The "ten horns" represent the pagan emperors afterwards, who would "wage war against the Lamb" (Rev 17), only to be defeated by the Evangelization of the Roman empire (Rev 19).)
 
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PeteWaldo

Guest
#39
Simply repeating what we have been taught won't make necessarily make magically come true. But thanks for that excellent illustration of the power of, and the doctrine induced blindness caused by, the pop-19th century eschatology of preterism (and futurism), that displaced the traditional historicist approach as Christians uniformly applied it to all bible prophecy prior to the last couple of centuries.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...onal-approach-historicism-bible-prophecy.html

Though perhaps right on schedule:

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
 
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Tintin

Guest
#40
Honestly, let's look to the One who will return and not focus so much on the little details.