Mary born without sin? Or RCC nonsense?
- Thread starter MikeHenderson
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R
If you read Acts Chapter One, you will read where Mary as well as All The Apostles received The Holy Ghost/ Spirit prior to the start of The Only Christian Church Jesus ever had/has. She was converted from being a Jew, just like all the rest at the First Christian service who beleived in Acts Chapter Two.
Two questions for faithful Catholics: (1) If Mary was born Sinless, why then did she have to be Converted, like all the rest? (2) Mary, herself declared to her Cousin Elizabeth in Luke Chapter Two: "My soul hath rejoiced in GOD MY SAVIOR"? A perfect, sinless person, as the RCC alludes she is, would never make that statement if she was born sinless/ perfect human..."You shall know THE TRUTH, and THE TRUTH, Shall make you free" John 8 verse 32.
Two questions for faithful Catholics: (1) If Mary was born Sinless, why then did she have to be Converted, like all the rest? (2) Mary, herself declared to her Cousin Elizabeth in Luke Chapter Two: "My soul hath rejoiced in GOD MY SAVIOR"? A perfect, sinless person, as the RCC alludes she is, would never make that statement if she was born sinless/ perfect human..."You shall know THE TRUTH, and THE TRUTH, Shall make you free" John 8 verse 32.
R
Ancient Babylon is where pagan beleifs began. Then they spread worldwide to every nation and culture. Look for example at Islam which is the biggest Cult on Earth. Who beleive "Allah" os the real God, but in reality was a Moon God Idol in Mecca. Etc, etc.
John 4 verse 24 "God is a Spirit, and those who worship him, MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH"!!!!!!
John 4 verse 24 "God is a Spirit, and those who worship him, MUST WORSHIP HIM IN SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH"!!!!!!
Nobody dislikes catholic doctrine more than me, but it appears this guy DOES have a serious axe to grind against catholics.
I mean if a catholic comes here and starts a thread that's one thing, but why build the strawman when there isn't even a catholic here so you can burn it down in front of their eyes?
I mean if a catholic comes here and starts a thread that's one thing, but why build the strawman when there isn't even a catholic here so you can burn it down in front of their eyes?
You hit the nail on the head! The Bible gives us no reason to believe that Mary was sinless. In fact, the Bible gives us every reason to believe that Jesus Christ is the only Person who was not "infected" by sin and never committed a sin (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; Hebrews 4:15; 1 Peter 2:22). So ALL have sinned (including Mary) and come short of the glory of God (except Jesus).
Luke 1:46 - And Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. Mary needed a Savior just like the rest of us. The Roman Catholic Church dogmatically teaches that Mary was conceived without sin. So, the doctrine of the immaculate conception is neither Biblical nor necessary. Jesus was miraculously conceived inside Mary, who was a virgin at the time. That is the Biblical concept of the virgin birth.
If we examine this concept logically, Mary’s mother would have to be immaculately conceived as well. How could Mary be conceived without sin if her mother was sinful? The same would have to be said of Mary’s grandmother, great-grandmother, and so on. So, in conclusion, the immaculate conception is not a Biblical teaching. The Bible teaches the miraculous virgin conception of Jesus Christ, not the immaculate conception of Mary.
Luke 1:46 - And Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord, 47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. Mary needed a Savior just like the rest of us. The Roman Catholic Church dogmatically teaches that Mary was conceived without sin. So, the doctrine of the immaculate conception is neither Biblical nor necessary. Jesus was miraculously conceived inside Mary, who was a virgin at the time. That is the Biblical concept of the virgin birth.
If we examine this concept logically, Mary’s mother would have to be immaculately conceived as well. How could Mary be conceived without sin if her mother was sinful? The same would have to be said of Mary’s grandmother, great-grandmother, and so on. So, in conclusion, the immaculate conception is not a Biblical teaching. The Bible teaches the miraculous virgin conception of Jesus Christ, not the immaculate conception of Mary.
Mary had sin Jesus did not how did that happen? Sin is passed down through the man where life is given by the man God is the father of Jesus the Eternal life giver Mary had no part in given life to Jesus she was the plan for God to come by a women but life from God sin can not produce life only death
My point is that this is yet another RC-bashing thread.
The argument made against the RCC in this thread could be made against the Eastern Orthodox Church as well as Lutheranisms' founder, Martin Luther. The attack is always laid against the RCC, though.
Even beyond them(RCC, EOC, Luther), there are others in Christianity that would not agree that "all" means absolutely everyone.
Aborted humans, infants, and the very young...have they sinned? They would be included in "all" if "all" means everyone and makes zero exceptions.
If aborted humans, infants, and the very young have sinned, what sin are they guilty of?
An interesting twist on my question is that the RCC would agree that aborted humans, infants, and the very young are guilty of sin...original sin.
My position is simply that all need a savior and that the individual can not be his/her own savior. Just conceived or 110 years old, Jesus Christ is the only one capable of saving one from eternal punishment.
The argument made against the RCC in this thread could be made against the Eastern Orthodox Church as well as Lutheranisms' founder, Martin Luther. The attack is always laid against the RCC, though.
Even beyond them(RCC, EOC, Luther), there are others in Christianity that would not agree that "all" means absolutely everyone.
Aborted humans, infants, and the very young...have they sinned? They would be included in "all" if "all" means everyone and makes zero exceptions.
If aborted humans, infants, and the very young have sinned, what sin are they guilty of?
An interesting twist on my question is that the RCC would agree that aborted humans, infants, and the very young are guilty of sin...original sin.
My position is simply that all need a savior and that the individual can not be his/her own savior. Just conceived or 110 years old, Jesus Christ is the only one capable of saving one from eternal punishment.
The EOC does indeed share in some of the heresies of the RCC....
And there are some protestant reformers that retained bits and pieces of the heresies (including Martin Luther) that persist until this day in some present day denominations. The best solution is to remove that which doesn't line up with the bible, and worship the Lord in spirit and in truth.
How did this discussion suddenly become about abortions? All have sinned applies to every human on this planet. Only ONE person lived a life free of sin and that was Jesus Christ.
And there are some protestant reformers that retained bits and pieces of the heresies (including Martin Luther) that persist until this day in some present day denominations. The best solution is to remove that which doesn't line up with the bible, and worship the Lord in spirit and in truth.
How did this discussion suddenly become about abortions? All have sinned applies to every human on this planet. Only ONE person lived a life free of sin and that was Jesus Christ.
J
its not nonsense. the Catholics are not the only ones with traditions concerning the mother of Jesus. at one time there were many that believed and taught that Mary was separated and kept pure until the birth.
Mary carried and gave birth to the Son of the Almighty. do you really think that just any female off the street would be acceptable for such a role?
the Essenes taught a similar tradition. is it a coincidence they were the only Jewish sect waiting and expecting Jesus when He came. John the baptist studied with them and the bible teaches he knew exactly who Jesus was when he first saw Him, how did he know?
maybe the Essenes knew what they were talking about.
Mary carried and gave birth to the Son of the Almighty. do you really think that just any female off the street would be acceptable for such a role?
the Essenes taught a similar tradition. is it a coincidence they were the only Jewish sect waiting and expecting Jesus when He came. John the baptist studied with them and the bible teaches he knew exactly who Jesus was when he first saw Him, how did he know?
maybe the Essenes knew what they were talking about.
better even yet - get rid of the notion that you can decide what you and everyone else must and should accept - if the Bible says all why not accepted that there are no exceptions - btw how was the man born to a certain woman greater than John - it goes unnoticed that Mary was saved and free of sin before she was born and rejoiced in her saviour before He was even born - wincam
If we "get rid" of the notion that we can decide what everyone else must and should accept also applies to the Catholic Church and ALL of everything they teach. Or could it be wincam you believe only the Corrupted Catholic Church holds all the Truths?
This is one of the Main teachings of the Catholic Church, that ONLY the Catholic Church can interpret the Scriptures and no one else has the Authority to do so.
The Main Flaw in this Theology is just look at all the Doctrines about Mary. Not one doctrine about Mary in the last 200 years has any Scriptures to back them up.
All the Doctrines about Mary are just opinions that the Popes have with absolutely no Scriptures to back them up.
There was a time in History when the Catholic Church was the only authority on the Scriptures and just look at what they did with this authority. They abused it to the point God had to slap down the Catholic Church with His Reformation with His True Children.
Like i say wincam, get thee behind me Satan.
This is one of the Main teachings of the Catholic Church, that ONLY the Catholic Church can interpret the Scriptures and no one else has the Authority to do so.
The Main Flaw in this Theology is just look at all the Doctrines about Mary. Not one doctrine about Mary in the last 200 years has any Scriptures to back them up.
All the Doctrines about Mary are just opinions that the Popes have with absolutely no Scriptures to back them up.
There was a time in History when the Catholic Church was the only authority on the Scriptures and just look at what they did with this authority. They abused it to the point God had to slap down the Catholic Church with His Reformation with His True Children.
Like i say wincam, get thee behind me Satan.
Hebrews 4:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
ALL have sinned applies also to Mary. Also God does tell us Jesus never sinned. Show us where in the Scriptures does God say Mary was, yet without sin.
Its not there. This is why you are a catholic and not a True Child of God. May God have Mercy on your Soul for the Evil you do in His name.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
ALL have sinned applies also to Mary. Also God does tell us Jesus never sinned. Show us where in the Scriptures does God say Mary was, yet without sin.
Its not there. This is why you are a catholic and not a True Child of God. May God have Mercy on your Soul for the Evil you do in His name.
R
Actually The RCC hasen't had a Scripture to back up any beleif in Mary since The Church began in about 33AD in Jerusalem.
As a former Catholic, i researched the Bible many times over and over to memorize Chapter and Verse and came to the conclusion they are teaching false doctrines.
Spiritually, My heart extends to all Catholic Followers that they will come to the knowledge of God's written Truth, swallow they're foolish pride and get properly converted. The Lake of Fire is a terrible reward for those who refuse to study and learn God's Truth.
(ACTS CHAPTERS ONE AND TWO)
As a former Catholic, i researched the Bible many times over and over to memorize Chapter and Verse and came to the conclusion they are teaching false doctrines.
Spiritually, My heart extends to all Catholic Followers that they will come to the knowledge of God's written Truth, swallow they're foolish pride and get properly converted. The Lake of Fire is a terrible reward for those who refuse to study and learn God's Truth.
(ACTS CHAPTERS ONE AND TWO)
How did this discussion suddenly become about abortions? All have sinned applies to every human on this planet. Only ONE person lived a life free of sin and that was Jesus Christ.
What I wrote was:
"An interesting twist on my question is that the RCC would agree that aborted humans, infants, and the very young are guilty of sin...original sin."
The discussion isn't about abortions, but includes aborted humans. If "all" includes everyone, then that would include aborted humans, infants, and those who are very young who are not aware of the difference between right and wrong.
Not all Christians would agree that "all" applies to those individuals because they aren't capable of sinning(i.e. - willfully missing the mark).
What I wrote was:
"An interesting twist on my question is that the RCC would agree that aborted humans, infants, and the very young are guilty of sin...original sin."
The discussion isn't about abortions, but includes aborted humans. If "all" includes everyone, then that would include aborted humans, infants, and those who are very young who are not aware of the difference between right and wrong.
Not all Christians would agree that "all" applies to those individuals because they aren't capable of sinning(i.e. - willfully missing the mark).