Mormons / Latter Day Saints
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Mormonism is easily disprovable secularly or biblically. Secularly, all one has to do is look at all the very problematic historical inaccuracies of any of the mormon texts and the complete lack of proof for any single event in their Book of Mormon ever occuring.
From a biblical perspective, mormonism is quite evil. The thing about mormonism is it literally claims to be another gospel. Furthermore it is a perversion of the Bible. Even more concerning is it was supposedly give to the false prophet Joseph Smith by an angel.
The problem here is the Bible says do not take another gospel, not even from an angel. Furthermore the Bible says the dragon called Satan likes to masquerade as an angel. So given all the conflict with Reality and the Bible, the only possibilities for the existence of mormonism is that either the false prophet Joseph Smith was just an all around liar, or he was literally deceived by Satan.
For any mormons here, the solution is simple. Cut the bad fruit off of the tree, the bad fruit of mormonism. Go back to the Bible and the real Jesus Christ.
From a biblical perspective, mormonism is quite evil. The thing about mormonism is it literally claims to be another gospel. Furthermore it is a perversion of the Bible. Even more concerning is it was supposedly give to the false prophet Joseph Smith by an angel.
The problem here is the Bible says do not take another gospel, not even from an angel. Furthermore the Bible says the dragon called Satan likes to masquerade as an angel. So given all the conflict with Reality and the Bible, the only possibilities for the existence of mormonism is that either the false prophet Joseph Smith was just an all around liar, or he was literally deceived by Satan.
For any mormons here, the solution is simple. Cut the bad fruit off of the tree, the bad fruit of mormonism. Go back to the Bible and the real Jesus Christ.
Mormons will claim that the mesoamerican cities are evidence of book of mormon. Problem is none of the cities are in the place where they should be, none of them have the names ascribed in mormonism, nor do they bear any signs of the technology in mormonism.
Here is a good documentary taking a secular look at both Bible and Book of Mormon. What you will see is there is literally a mountain of real evidence to support the Bible narrative and there is literally not one shred of evidence to support mormonism from a secular viewpoint.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1mFdO1wB08
[video=youtube;G1mFdO1wB08]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1mFdO1wB08[/video]
Here is a good documentary taking a secular look at both Bible and Book of Mormon. What you will see is there is literally a mountain of real evidence to support the Bible narrative and there is literally not one shred of evidence to support mormonism from a secular viewpoint.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1mFdO1wB08
[video=youtube;G1mFdO1wB08]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1mFdO1wB08[/video]
Obviously, you have not been updated to ALL the evidence, much of which supports the BOM. You need to read my post #211. Basically, the Living Hope Ministries did not think to interview PhD's that would have said that there is archeological evidence that supports the BOM like a glove. OR Living Hope Ministries decided to ignore any statement by a PhD that would have supported the BOM. They really had to do this because if they had found evidence in support, it would have ruined their whole video and their whole agenda.
So read my post #211, I was responding to T_Laurich who first put this video on the forum. Then google "evidences of the Book of Mormon" and enjoy your read.
So tell me where I can find the ruins of Zarehemla or Bountiful. You cannot because they never existed. Why not excavate the Hill of Cumorah? Where are all the artifacts of advanced metallurgy in the Americas? If the Book of Mormon were true there'd be an over-abundance of evidence, yet there is zero evidence. Where is the evidence of "Reformed Egyptian, or any egyptian based language at all in the Americas? Where is the evidence of the Jaredite civilization? I have seen evidence the Toltecs, the Olmecs, the Maya, the Aztec, the Iroquois, etc. have existed at some point in time but I have never seen one shred of evidence indicating any such people group called Jaredites, Nephites, or Lamanites have ever existed.
Since we know nothing in the Book of Mormon is true, we must ask ourselves. Did Joseph Smith just make all this up? If Joseph Smith fabricated everything then we should be able to find a source for inspiration for his fabrications and demonic doctrines. Funny enough, there is evidence to support this. That would be the fact Joseph Smith was a freemason and incorporated their demonic rituals and symbols into his evil false religion.
The only other alternative is to say Smith was deceived. For this we also have evidence that if it is true a being calling itself Moroni, masquerading as an angel gave Smith another gospel and commands to pervert the Bible. If that account is true then that being is none other than Satan.
Either way you cut it Joseph Smith is a false prophet and mormonism is lie.
Since we know nothing in the Book of Mormon is true, we must ask ourselves. Did Joseph Smith just make all this up? If Joseph Smith fabricated everything then we should be able to find a source for inspiration for his fabrications and demonic doctrines. Funny enough, there is evidence to support this. That would be the fact Joseph Smith was a freemason and incorporated their demonic rituals and symbols into his evil false religion.
The only other alternative is to say Smith was deceived. For this we also have evidence that if it is true a being calling itself Moroni, masquerading as an angel gave Smith another gospel and commands to pervert the Bible. If that account is true then that being is none other than Satan.
Either way you cut it Joseph Smith is a false prophet and mormonism is lie.
If you are sincere about learning of the evidences of the BOM, you will be successful in finding it. You are not! Therefore with statements like "since we know nothing in the BOM is true" and " "show me where the location of Zarahemla is, you can't because they never existed", we know that no matter how much detail we show you, you will never believe it, so you must go your own way, and may the Lord bless your footsteps and bring you happiness.
I hope you never meet up with an angel sent from God, because you would immediately know it was from Satan and reject it's message. Angels from God has been a fundamental gospel event since the beginning of time. That is one way God gets information to man and you can read in the scriptures and find out how many angels have been sent since Adam. In fact if Joseph Smith did not receive angels from God, I would be suspect of his representations. Just the opposite of you. You are saying because he received angels, he is a false prophet. Read the scriptures and you will know that if he is a prophet he would receive angels. Yes Satan can transform himself into an angel of light, but you don't reject an angel of the Lord for fear it is Satan. You will know.
Joseph was 22 year old farm boy from the back woods of New York, with a 3rd grade education. He could not have written a 20 page childrens book on sewing crops, let alone a 531 page book on the complicated topic that he translated. He stated that it was another testament of Jesus Christ, meaning another testifier or a second witness that Jesus is the Son of God and is the Savior of the world and died on the cross for the sins of all mankind. Was resurrected and made it possible for all men to have life everlasting with him and his Father in heaven.
Read it for what its worth, it is an amazing work, the whole bringing forth of the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS is an incredible work of the Lord. You have decided not to partake and that is your right, but you are missing out on a great experience of more knowledge (rather than another knowledge) flowing from God since the days that the apostles died around 110 AD. Sorry for your loss.
I can explain the Trinity any time, and it is NOT EVEN CLOSE to the false definition that LDS means by Trinity, NOR is it like what you thought I Believed. The Blue Fonts will be my comments on the Scriptures.
John 4:24 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” (NOT FLESH AND BONE)
Colossians 2:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, (NOTICE ONLY ONE DEITY)
Isaiah 43:10-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] “You are My witnesses”— ⌊this is⌋ the LORD’s declaration— “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He.
No god was formed before Me, and there will be none after Me.
(NO SECOND DEITY OR GOD EVER.)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I, I am Yahweh, and there is no other Savior but Me. (GOD IS SAVIOR)
Luke 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. (Part of YAHWEH entered the flesh HE created in the womb of Mary so that HE could DIE for our sins.)
2 Corinthians 5:19 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. (GOD IS A SPIRIT, always has been and always will be, so part of HIS SPIRIT Entered the body HE created in the womb of MARY, so that HE, the ETERNAL GOD, could die for his friends, and the sins of the World, except the sin of rejecting that Truth that the Holy Spirit is trying to convince every heart of. That rejection is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the only sin anyone goes to HELL for.)
Acts 5:3-4 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the proceeds from the field?
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Wasn’t it yours while you possessed it? And after it was sold, wasn’t it at your disposal? Why is it that you planned this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God!” (THEREFORE THE HOLY SPIRIT TOO, IS PART OF THE ONE GOD. ONE GOD made up of three personages - the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, with three different functions within the GODhead, YET there is ONLY ONE GOD and all three are THE SPIRIT BEING WE KNOW AS GOD. WHY do you let the flesh of JESUS confuse you so. THAT IS HIS HUMAN PART OF HIMSELF, WHILE THE SPIRIT PART OF HIMSELF IS GOD. He is BOTH HUMAN and also GOD in that flesh.)
Why do you have such a HARD TIME understanding that TRUTH?
1 Corinthians 2:10-16 (NKJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] But the natural man {not yet born again} does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
{You have to be born again to understand the DEEP THINGS OF GOD, such as the HOLY TRINITY, where the THREE are ONE GOD.}
[SUP]15 [/SUP] But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For "who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
How is one "Born Again". When the HOLY SPIRIT brings conviction to your heart, that you are a great sinner, that moment in time when we are crying out to GOD for forgiveness, the HOLY SPIRIT comes into your heart, pouring the Love of GOD into your heart, Rom. 5:5; and out of that LOVE spawns a deep desire to surrender complete control of your life to Jesus Christ as LORD, which Means MASTER. AT THAT VERY MOMENT the Holy Spirit brings your once dead in your sins Human Spirit, to become ALIVE to the will of GOD, and that new life in your human spirit, is the BEGINNING OF ETERNAL LIFE. That new LIVING human spirit thinks too, but it is in tune spiritually with the WILL OF GOD. Yes the mind of the flesh will fight for control, at first, but the Human Spirit will mature as we feed it the WORD of GOD, and will eventually become dominant over the mind of the flesh.
Revelation 2:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth.
John 1:12-13 (NKJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:
[SUP]13 [/SUP] who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (Born Again)
John 3:3-7 (NKJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?"
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
Colossians 2:6 (NIV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord (which means MASTER, therefore it is a complete surrender to HIS control.), continue to live in Him,
Romans 10:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] that if you confess (it is only a PROFESSION, if you have not already surrendered control to HIM as LORD in your heart; and a profession will not save.) with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
John 14:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
THAT lifestyle of walking in obedience to HIM, comes from the LOVE of GOD that GOD the Holy Spirit poured into our hearts, when we were born again:
Romans 5:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
COME! COME to the real Jesus Christ of the Bible:
Revelation 3:20 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me.
Revelation 22:17 (HCSB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Both the Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” Anyone who hears should say, “Come!” And the one who is thirsty should come. Whoever desires should take the living water as a gift.
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Post the photographs of the Golden Plates, Post the Photographs of the coins in the Book of Mormon, Post the photographs of the archeological digs in the ruins of the Cities, or admit, Joseph Smith the famous made-up story teller, told his biggest Yarn in the writing the Book of Mormon, and LAUGHED all the way to the bank, and let the Mormon people pay for his expenses in marrying 34 wives. It is as simple as that SHOW us the photographs or admit you fell for the tricks of the religious con-artist, named Joseph Smith.
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Personally, if I thought the false prophet Joseph Smith was only a simple conman that only wanted money and thus wrote his little work of fiction and it got taken way way too far, then I would not be too terribly concerned. What makes me wary is for one how mormonism masquerades as Christian. And for two how there is the even the shadow of the possibility that this religion came straight from that old dragon.
The dragon is a subtle liar, so it is no wonder many are deceived. Yet with Jesus no deception is unbeatable and no thing is left secret. Go to the real Jesus whom is the Christ whom is accounted for by the real Apostles and Prophets in the real Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John).
Here is what another true and verified Apostle sent from the Lord Jesus Christ says on the matter of these false religions started by "angels" and false prophets;
Galatians 1:1-9
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
2 Corinthians 11:1-15
1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
The dragon is a subtle liar, so it is no wonder many are deceived. Yet with Jesus no deception is unbeatable and no thing is left secret. Go to the real Jesus whom is the Christ whom is accounted for by the real Apostles and Prophets in the real Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John).
Here is what another true and verified Apostle sent from the Lord Jesus Christ says on the matter of these false religions started by "angels" and false prophets;
Galatians 1:1-9
1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
2 Corinthians 11:1-15
1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
In my experience, absolute statements like complete lack of or not a single are difficult to sustain... Usually there is some amount of evidence for just about anything just by coincidence... There are good videos on YouTube showing problems with bom, to be fair, there are also some that talk about amazing things in bom...
You have every right to fear, but not just from Mormonism. The whole Christian community is under fire. I'm not sure that it is possible to uncover, after millenia of men and religion, the true Christianity. There are so many Christian churches and so many Jesus's, and so many false ideas that to know the truth is difficult. You can not say that because you follow the Jesus of the Bible that your Jesus is the true Jesus. I can say the same thing.
The Mormon idea of Jesus is Biblical, otherwise nobody would be a Mormon. No matter how crafty you think you are, you can not create a new Jesus that is so foreign to the Bible or people will not believe it and will not follow you.
The reason people can believe the BOM is because it gives additional knowledge of Jesus Christ and his dealings with a part of the House of Israel that made its way to the Americas. It does not create a new Jesus, it takes the traditional Biblical Jesus story from birth to ascension, but here's where it adds some info that the Bible does not have. After his ascension, Jesus then comes down from heaven and shows the people the wounds in his hands and feet and side and then Jesus taught them his gospel, set up a quorum of 12 disciples to administer his church and then went to the Father again to stand at His right hand until the second coming.
With all due respect to your scholarship and love of the Lord, I challenge you to find anything in the BOM about Jesus that is contrary to the Jesus of the Bible. I don't think you will find it. So If the BOM really does testify of Jesus Christ and is a great second witness that he is the Son of God and the Saivior of all mankind, it seems that the dragon would better be served to peddle his hatred for Jesus elswhere, since this book builds Jesus up and we want to worship him more.
So if Mormonism is of God or of Satan, my experience is that God is at the helm, building up his kingdom in the Jerusalem as well as in the Americas. It only makes sense that the whole earth should be full of the Lord.
One interesting scripture that I believe relates to BOM people and that is in John chapter 10. Jesus is giving his parable of the good shepherd. He is the good shepherd and he knows his sheep and he lays down his life for the sheep. Then he says an interesting thing in vs 16, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear by voice and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. To me this verse is talking about the children of Israel, from the tribe of Joseph who left Jerusalem about 600BC and went to the Americas. They are no longer a part of the Jerusalem fold, but they are part of Jesus's sheep. After his ascension he in fact did come to his other sheep in the Americas and they did hear his voice, and they worshipped him.
Interesting discussion, I do not begrudge your information, I enjoy talking to you.
The Mormon idea of Jesus is Biblical, otherwise nobody would be a Mormon. No matter how crafty you think you are, you can not create a new Jesus that is so foreign to the Bible or people will not believe it and will not follow you.
The reason people can believe the BOM is because it gives additional knowledge of Jesus Christ and his dealings with a part of the House of Israel that made its way to the Americas. It does not create a new Jesus, it takes the traditional Biblical Jesus story from birth to ascension, but here's where it adds some info that the Bible does not have. After his ascension, Jesus then comes down from heaven and shows the people the wounds in his hands and feet and side and then Jesus taught them his gospel, set up a quorum of 12 disciples to administer his church and then went to the Father again to stand at His right hand until the second coming.
With all due respect to your scholarship and love of the Lord, I challenge you to find anything in the BOM about Jesus that is contrary to the Jesus of the Bible. I don't think you will find it. So If the BOM really does testify of Jesus Christ and is a great second witness that he is the Son of God and the Saivior of all mankind, it seems that the dragon would better be served to peddle his hatred for Jesus elswhere, since this book builds Jesus up and we want to worship him more.
So if Mormonism is of God or of Satan, my experience is that God is at the helm, building up his kingdom in the Jerusalem as well as in the Americas. It only makes sense that the whole earth should be full of the Lord.
One interesting scripture that I believe relates to BOM people and that is in John chapter 10. Jesus is giving his parable of the good shepherd. He is the good shepherd and he knows his sheep and he lays down his life for the sheep. Then he says an interesting thing in vs 16, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear by voice and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. To me this verse is talking about the children of Israel, from the tribe of Joseph who left Jerusalem about 600BC and went to the Americas. They are no longer a part of the Jerusalem fold, but they are part of Jesus's sheep. After his ascension he in fact did come to his other sheep in the Americas and they did hear his voice, and they worshipped him.
Interesting discussion, I do not begrudge your information, I enjoy talking to you.
One thing contrary to Book of Mormon and the Bible? The whole book of Mormon and the other books that never get talked about curiously are very contrary to not only the Bible, but Reality itself.
Just a basic example though is BOM says Jesus was born in Jerusalem which is inaccurate as we all know Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
Aye Jesus is the good shepherd and the Gentiles will be grafted into Israel. BOM did not happen though. The Gentiles of ancient America were sadly pagans of the most twisted degrees. Heck there is an even stronger case for many of their vain ancient American religions that the dragon called satan straight up founded those religions, after all, they were sacrificing people en masse to demons and idols.
Racially we now know most seem to have been pre-dominantly Shemite, but none of racial Israel as far as any evidence has shown until of course well into the formal "Age of Exploration" in the 1400-1700s AD.
Around 600 BC the Israelites were not in America. They were conquered and made slaves throughout Assyria with the final tribes, Judah (and the Levite priests) as well as the Assyrians themselves and all their slaves being conquered and enslaved throughout the Babylonian Empire around the late 500s BC. Therefore the Israelties were scattered throughout the bounds of the Middle East and some of north Africa until that empire's conquest by Medo-Persia whom allowed the jews to return to the Promised Land. Any prior possibility even of one of the Israelite tribes immigrating to the Americas before Spanish Conquest would not be possible at minimum until the Jewish Diaspora caused by the Roman Empire in the late first century AD.
Even though BOM is fictional and mormonism is totally false doesn't mean you should give up on Jesus. Simply go for the real Jesus. Real Jesus is written by the real Apostles in the four gospels.
Just a basic example though is BOM says Jesus was born in Jerusalem which is inaccurate as we all know Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
Aye Jesus is the good shepherd and the Gentiles will be grafted into Israel. BOM did not happen though. The Gentiles of ancient America were sadly pagans of the most twisted degrees. Heck there is an even stronger case for many of their vain ancient American religions that the dragon called satan straight up founded those religions, after all, they were sacrificing people en masse to demons and idols.
Racially we now know most seem to have been pre-dominantly Shemite, but none of racial Israel as far as any evidence has shown until of course well into the formal "Age of Exploration" in the 1400-1700s AD.
Around 600 BC the Israelites were not in America. They were conquered and made slaves throughout Assyria with the final tribes, Judah (and the Levite priests) as well as the Assyrians themselves and all their slaves being conquered and enslaved throughout the Babylonian Empire around the late 500s BC. Therefore the Israelties were scattered throughout the bounds of the Middle East and some of north Africa until that empire's conquest by Medo-Persia whom allowed the jews to return to the Promised Land. Any prior possibility even of one of the Israelite tribes immigrating to the Americas before Spanish Conquest would not be possible at minimum until the Jewish Diaspora caused by the Roman Empire in the late first century AD.
Even though BOM is fictional and mormonism is totally false doesn't mean you should give up on Jesus. Simply go for the real Jesus. Real Jesus is written by the real Apostles in the four gospels.
,
If the Lord would have left the plates to be seen by all, it would have created an endless squabble about the translation. Such a squabble that the BOM would not be able to be read with any certainty. It would have created many more problems than just having to deal with "show us the plates". There were plenty of people that saw the plates and lifted the plates and testify to their existence and written characters. There have even been men who saw the plates and saw an angel, that later left the fellowship with Joseph Smith, but to their dying breath, did not deny that they saw the plates and saw an angel and that they were real. So read the witnesses of the BOM if you want a more sure testimony. It was wise that the Lord had the plates delivered back into the hands of Moroni.
These people did not use coins for barter, they used weights and measures. That is why no coins have been found, but you can still buy their small weights and measures devices in stores today.
Google Book of Mormon evidences. Many good Mormon books on the subject. Dr John Lund wrote a book called Mesoamerica and the Book of Mormon, very good read.
This is not just a big yarn, it would have been a colossal yarn. Are you kidding, have you ever read any part of the BOM. It is a monumental book, a second witness that Christ came to the Americas and taught his gospel here too. What snotty nosed farmer from upstate New York would be able to come up with a 531 page book like that? Then this snotty-nose farmer goes out and tries to raise $3,000 to get the first 5000 books published? $3,000 in 1830 would have been a fortune, and he just walks up to a man and gets him to give him $3,000, I don't think so.
None of it makes sense unless the Lord is making it happen.
He could not write this book under any circumstances, unless the Lord was making it happen.
He could not get $3,000 to publish, unless the Lord was making it happen.
As far as laughing all the way to the bank, he was poor his whole life and finally had to give his life for the reality of what he had experienced. Like he said, "he saw the Father and the Son, and he knew it, and he knew God knew it and he would not deny, even though persecuted and killed he did not deny.
If the Lord would have left the plates to be seen by all, it would have created an endless squabble about the translation. Such a squabble that the BOM would not be able to be read with any certainty. It would have created many more problems than just having to deal with "show us the plates". There were plenty of people that saw the plates and lifted the plates and testify to their existence and written characters. There have even been men who saw the plates and saw an angel, that later left the fellowship with Joseph Smith, but to their dying breath, did not deny that they saw the plates and saw an angel and that they were real. So read the witnesses of the BOM if you want a more sure testimony. It was wise that the Lord had the plates delivered back into the hands of Moroni.
These people did not use coins for barter, they used weights and measures. That is why no coins have been found, but you can still buy their small weights and measures devices in stores today.
Google Book of Mormon evidences. Many good Mormon books on the subject. Dr John Lund wrote a book called Mesoamerica and the Book of Mormon, very good read.
This is not just a big yarn, it would have been a colossal yarn. Are you kidding, have you ever read any part of the BOM. It is a monumental book, a second witness that Christ came to the Americas and taught his gospel here too. What snotty nosed farmer from upstate New York would be able to come up with a 531 page book like that? Then this snotty-nose farmer goes out and tries to raise $3,000 to get the first 5000 books published? $3,000 in 1830 would have been a fortune, and he just walks up to a man and gets him to give him $3,000, I don't think so.
None of it makes sense unless the Lord is making it happen.
He could not write this book under any circumstances, unless the Lord was making it happen.
He could not get $3,000 to publish, unless the Lord was making it happen.
As far as laughing all the way to the bank, he was poor his whole life and finally had to give his life for the reality of what he had experienced. Like he said, "he saw the Father and the Son, and he knew it, and he knew God knew it and he would not deny, even though persecuted and killed he did not deny.
You would be wrong on both counts that I highlighted in RED.
I personally and intimately KNOW the Jesus of the BIBLE, in my heart. HE literally is in me spiritually, and I literally am in HIM spiritually. I explained in my post #308, how to become a real Christian, and there is no sense in repeating it.
The Jesus of Mormonism is based on the Book of Mormon, NOT ON THE BIBLE.
AND you would be WRONG if you think Mainline Churches each teach a different JESUS. ALL OF THE MAINLINE CHURCHES, teach the exact SAME JESUS. All you have to do to validate this is go to any of their websites and look up their STATEMENT OF FAITH, sometimes called "What We Believe" or "Doctrinal Statement". Pay particular attention to WHO we say the TRINITY (GODhead) is, WHO we say the Father is, and ESPECIALLY WHO WE SAY JESUS CHRIST IS. You will find that ALL mainline denominational Churches teach that Jesus Christ is part of the ONE AND ONLY GOD, the Holy Trinity. HERE is a typical excerpt example of a Doctrinal Statement of Faith:
I personally and intimately KNOW the Jesus of the BIBLE, in my heart. HE literally is in me spiritually, and I literally am in HIM spiritually. I explained in my post #308, how to become a real Christian, and there is no sense in repeating it.
The Jesus of Mormonism is based on the Book of Mormon, NOT ON THE BIBLE.
AND you would be WRONG if you think Mainline Churches each teach a different JESUS. ALL OF THE MAINLINE CHURCHES, teach the exact SAME JESUS. All you have to do to validate this is go to any of their websites and look up their STATEMENT OF FAITH, sometimes called "What We Believe" or "Doctrinal Statement". Pay particular attention to WHO we say the TRINITY (GODhead) is, WHO we say the Father is, and ESPECIALLY WHO WE SAY JESUS CHRIST IS. You will find that ALL mainline denominational Churches teach that Jesus Christ is part of the ONE AND ONLY GOD, the Holy Trinity. HERE is a typical excerpt example of a Doctrinal Statement of Faith:
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The existence of the plates is only a side argument since one could even argue if the plates were destroyed or never existed to begin with since Smith and mormon theology says Moroni now has those plates you ain't going to get to see them anytime soon.
The problem is Moroni.
Ask this question; is Moroni even an angel?
Biblically that is a most assured no.
By Mormon standards though we can prove even Moroni is shockingly not an angel. Moroni is supposedly the dead spirit of the last Nephite whom survived the supposed battle at Cumorah according to Mormon doctrine.
Angels aren't the spirits of the dead though, they are their own creature made by God called Angels meaning Messengers. Therefore Moroni cannot be a real angel if Moroni is real at all to begin with and not just 1800s fiction.
The problem is Moroni.
Ask this question; is Moroni even an angel?
Biblically that is a most assured no.
By Mormon standards though we can prove even Moroni is shockingly not an angel. Moroni is supposedly the dead spirit of the last Nephite whom survived the supposed battle at Cumorah according to Mormon doctrine.
Angels aren't the spirits of the dead though, they are their own creature made by God called Angels meaning Messengers. Therefore Moroni cannot be a real angel if Moroni is real at all to begin with and not just 1800s fiction.
Give me any other part of the text of the BOM that is contrary to the Bible? Your Jerusalem thing is so minor, but here is the explanation. Lehi and his family left Jerusalem about 600 BC. They sailed to the Americas and began their life there. Over 400 years later, around 175 BC, Alma is giving a sermon to the people and he gives them some details of the birth of the Savior. He does tell them that he will be born at Jerusalem. What you have to know is that his people had lost practically all knowledge of the old country, so they did not know anything about Bethlehem or that it is only a few miles from Jerusalem. They did know of the city of Jerusalem and the land of Jerusalem, which would have included Bethlehem. So instead of saying Bethlehem and then having to explain himself, he used a well known city and land they were familiar with and used that. I do the same thing when I tell people I am from Salt Lake City, when I am really from Herriman Utah. I hate to say Herriman and then have to go further when they say "where is that." It is only 20 minutes south of SLC, so I just say SLC because all people know where that is.
Alma did the same.
Alma did the same.
No SUCH thing as MINOR, any errors makes it NOT OF GOD.
The Bible Says: ASK AND YEE SHALL RECEIVE!
The following comes from this Site: The Book of Mormon contradicts ITSELF and the Bible!
[h=1]Terminology Differences[/h]by Sandra Tanner
[TABLE="width: 577"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Pre-Existence
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - teach that everyone pre-existed - we all exist eternally.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - Only Christ pre-existed - not man. (John 8:58; Col 1:17) We didn't have a spiritual existence prior to earth. (I Cor 15:46)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Fall [Of Man]
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - teach it brought mortality and physical death - not fallen nature - believe Adam was given two conflicting commandments and was supposed to fall.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - God tempts no one. (James 1:13-14). Man is basically sinful. (Rom. 8:5-8; I Cor 2:14)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Sin
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Specific acts - not man's basic nature.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - We are in spiritual rebellion until conversion. (Eph 2:3; Rom 5:6). We do not just commit sins - we are basically sinful. (Matt 1:21)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Repentance
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Repent of individual acts - not sinful nature.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - Must repent of basic rebellion. (Jer. 17:9; Luke 5:32)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Atonement - Salvation By Grace
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - believe Christ's death brought release from grave and universal resurrection - Salvation by grace is universal resurrection - beyond this, man must earn his place in heaven.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - Salvation is not universal but based on belief of each individual. (Rom 1:16; Heb 9:28; Eph 2:8-9)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Redeemed
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - from mortal death only - not sinful rebellion or spiritual death.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - Christ redeems from more than mortal death - redeems us from spiritual death. (Rom 6:23; Eph 2:1)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Gospel
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Mormon Church system and doctrines.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - Message of Christ's death and resurrection as atonement for our sins. (I Cor 15:1-4; Gal 1:8)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Born Again
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Baptism into LDS Church.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - We are spiritually dead until our spiritual rebirth. (I Pet 1:23; II Cor 5:17)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]True Church
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Only Mormon Church - true church taken from earth until Joseph Smith restored it.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - As a born-again Christian, we are part of God's Church. (I Cor 12:12-14; Matt 18:19-20; Matt 16:18)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Authority - Priesthood
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - believe only LDS have authority to baptize, ordain, etc - have two-part system of priesthood - Melchizedek and Aaronic.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - Christ brought end to Aaronic priesthood and is the ONLY High Priest after manner of Melchizedek. (Heb 5:9; II Tim 2:2)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Baptism
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Must be performed by LDS priesthood.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - Emphasis is on Believer - not priesthood authority. (Mark 16:15-16)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Sons Of God
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - We are all literal spirit children of God.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - We become a child of God at conversion. (I John 1:12)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Eternal Life
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Exaltation in Celestial Kingdom - ability to bear children in heaven - must have a Temple Marriage.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - Not limited to certain ones in heaven - no mention of parenthood or temple marriage but is given to ALL Christians. (I John 5:12-13)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Immortality
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Universal gift - ability to live forever but not Eternal Life.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - Makes no distinction between immortality and eternal life. (II Tim 1:10)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Heaven
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Divided into three kingdoms - Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial - place for almost everyone (misuse of I Cor 15:40-41)
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - Only mentions two conditions - everlasting punishment or life eternal. (Matt. 25:31- 46)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Kingdom Of God
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Means Celestial Kingdom - only those in Celestial Kingdom are in God's presence. Those in Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdoms aren't in presence of Father.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - All redeemed will be in God's presence. (Rev. 21:1-3). All believers are part of Kingdom. (Matt. 13:41-43)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Hell
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Hell as an institution is eternal - inmates come and go as in jail - don't spend eternity there - stay until one has paid debt to God.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - No mention of people getting out of Hell. (Rev. 21:8; Matt 13:24-43 and 47-50; Luke 16:26)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Godhead
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Father God is a resurrected man with physical body, Christ is a separate resurrected man with physical body. Holy Ghost is a separate man with a spiritual body - 3 totally separate Gods.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - God not a man. (Num 23:19). Only one God. (Isa 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22). Father is Spirit and Invisible (John 4:24; I Tim 1:17)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Holy Ghost
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - Is a separate God from Father and Son - different from Holy Spirit - Holy Ghost is a person - Holy Spirit is influence from Father and not personal.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - Same Greek word used for Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit (I Cor 3:16 and 6:19).
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 20%"]Virgin Birth
[/TD]
[TD="width: 38%"]LDS - believe God, as a resurrected, physical man, is literal Father of Jesus - same manner in which men are conceived on earth - believe Matt 1:18 in error.
[/TD]
[TD="width: 42%"]Bible - says Mary was ". . . with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matt 1:18)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
AND the Book of Mormon even contradicts itself:
[TABLE="width: 582"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]One God
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]Plural Gods
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]Book of Mormon: Alma 11:27-39, 44; 2 Nephi 31:21; Mormon 7:7; 3 Nephi 11:27 Testimony of the three witnesses
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]Doctrine and Covenants: Section 121:32; 132:18-20, 37
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]God is a Spirit
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]God Has a Body
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M. - Alma 18:26-28; 22:8-11
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]D. & C. - Section 130:22
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]God Dwells in Heart
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]God Does Not Dwell in Heart
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M. - Alma 34:36
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]D. & C. - Section 130:3
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]Creation - One God
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]Creation - Plural Gods
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M. - 2 Nephi 2:14; Jacob 4:9 Pearl of Great Price - Moses, Chapter 2
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]Book of Abraham - Chapters 4 and 5
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]God Cannot Lie
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]God Commands Lying
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M. - Ether 3:12; 2 Nephi 9:34
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]P.G.P. - Book of Abraham 2:22-25
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]God's Word Unchangeable
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]God's Word Can Change
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M. - Alma 41:8
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]D. & C. - Section 56:4-5
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]No Pre-Existence of Man
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]Man Pre-Existed
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M. - Jacob 4:9; Alma 18:28, 34-36
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]D. & C. - Section 93:23, 29-33 P.G.P. - Bk of Abraham 3:18, 21-23
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]Death Seals Man's Fate
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]Chance After Death
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M. - Mosiah 2:36-39; Alma 34:32-35
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]D. & C. - Section 76:106-112; 88:99
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]Heathen Saved Without Baptism
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]Baptism for Dead
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M. - Moroni 8:22-23 2 Nephi 9:25-26; Mosiah 15:24-27
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]D. & C. - Section 128:5, 17-18
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]Heaven or Hell
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]Three Kingdoms in Heaven - Most Saved
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M. - 2 Nephi 28:22; 1 Nephi 15:35; Most SavedMosiah 16:11, 27:31; Alma 41:4-8, 42:16
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]D. & C. - Section 76:43, 70-112
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]Murder Can Be Forgiven
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]No Forgiveness For Murder
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M.- 3 Nephi 30:2
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]D. & C. - Section 42:18
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]Polygamy Condemned
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]Polygamy Commanded
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M. - Jacob 1:15, 2:24, 3:5; Mosiah 11:2
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]D. & C. - Section 132:1, 37-39, 61
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]2 Nephi 26:31; Mosiah 27:5
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]D. & C. - Section 42:71-73; 43:12-13; 51:13-14
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]B. of M. - Mormon 8:32
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]D. & C. - Section 64:23
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]Adam in America
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]Adam in Old World
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="width: 48%"]D. & C. - Section 107:53; 116; 117:8
[/TD]
[TD="width: 52%"]P.G.P. - Book of Moses 3:8, 10-15
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
In other words YOU have ZERO PROOF. Every coin mentioned in the Bible has been found, almost every City mentioned can be found, or have archeological evidence mentioning their existance.
AND YOU HAVE ZERO PROOF.
Don't choke on this quote:
The description certainly sounds like coinage, which is how it was traditionally interpreted by Mormon general authorities. In fact, until changes were made to the Book of Mormon headings in 2013 (described in more detail below), the introduction to Alma chapter 11 stated that the descriptions of the money were "Nephite coins and measures." This explanation was given by James Talmage, a Mormon apostle who was commissioned to add both chapter headings and footnotes to the Book of Mormon. James P. Harris, author of The Essential James E. Talmage, noted that Talmage "was customarily meticulous, making sure there were no errors or omissions" (p.xxix).
REF: http://www.mrm.org/coins
AND YOU HAVE ZERO PROOF.
Don't choke on this quote:
The description certainly sounds like coinage, which is how it was traditionally interpreted by Mormon general authorities. In fact, until changes were made to the Book of Mormon headings in 2013 (described in more detail below), the introduction to Alma chapter 11 stated that the descriptions of the money were "Nephite coins and measures." This explanation was given by James Talmage, a Mormon apostle who was commissioned to add both chapter headings and footnotes to the Book of Mormon. James P. Harris, author of The Essential James E. Talmage, noted that Talmage "was customarily meticulous, making sure there were no errors or omissions" (p.xxix).
REF: http://www.mrm.org/coins