My "Magic Shop" dilemma

JesusIsAll · Dec 17, 2014

So, the debate over the big affairs of the day rages on. Maybe a helpful tip would be to put an exorcist on speed dial, if you see somebody pulling a rabbit out of a hat. A holier-than-thou new thread needs to be created, in the finest tradition of CC, "Which Do You Admire Most? Scribes, or Pharisees?"

Jason0047 · Dec 17, 2014

JesusIsAll said:

If God never prescribes or approves of a person using magic tricks in preaching the gospel, then what you just said doesn't really mean anything. If God approved of using magic tricks in preaching the gospel, surely somewhere within His Word we would see some kind of approval of that. Paul says the gospel he preaches is not with the cleverness of words in man's wisdom but it is with the power of God. That should give us a clue that our preaching should not be in such a way so as to glorify ourselves by making the gospel message fancy and dazzling so as to wow audiences. The gospel is preached with the power of God. That is how people are convinced. It is the power of God. Not in a magic trick based on deception that glorifies the magician and not God. For a person who does magic tricks amazes people because the magician has a power that they do not have. So they think of him as great, when in reality he is... nothing. For the Scriptures say, if any man think himself to be something when he is nothing, deceives himself.

Jason0047 · Dec 17, 2014

A person who does magic in order to preach the gospel must ask themselves if they crave attention and or power. They must ask themself if they can preach without all their bag of tricks. If a person is honest with themselves in asking these types of questions, then they will find no need for their magic but Jesus Christ alone. For Jesus should be the true miracle worker in their life and in how they witness to others. It should never be in a bag of tricks.

Hizikyah · Dec 17, 2014

Yeremyah 2:8, "The priests did not ask; Where is Yahweh? Those who deal with the Law did not know Me! The pastors also transgressed against Me, and the prophets prophesied in the name of Baal; (the Lord), and walked after things of worthlessness"

Agricola · Dec 17, 2014

Jason0047 said:

I come to the conclusion that you are incapable of being able to differentiate between occult spells, incantations, summoning demons etc and the harmless profession of stage entertainment of performing illusions and card tricks etc. I can do card tricks and know the methodology behind illusions and slight of hand and it is a very difficult skill to master well. Does that mean I have some kind of "special powers"? No of course not. Neither does any illusionist or so called magician. If by power you mean skill and ability learnt a over hundreds of hours of practice, then of course, but that applies to just about anyone who has a talent or skill.

Hizikyah · Dec 17, 2014

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Proverbs 1:29-31, "Because they hated knowledge, and did not choose to give reverence to Yahweh! Since they would have none of my counsel, and despised all my rebuke and warning. They will eat the fruit of their own ways, and be completely idled with their own devices."

Agricola · Dec 17, 2014

Hizikyah said:

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Proverbs 1:29-31, "Because they hated knowledge, and did not choose to give reverence to Yahweh! Since they would have none of my counsel, and despised all my rebuke and warning. They will eat the fruit of their own ways, and be completely idled with their own devices."

instead of just posting verses, how about explaining what you mean. People on opposing sides often use the same verses, so its pointless just posting verses without an explination.

Brainfreeze · Dec 17, 2014

Agricola said:

If you go over the thread, there's plenty of explanation, what anyone tells you, you won't want to hear, so why ? No ones here to argue but rather discuss and learn, What else do you want to hear or know ? Your still going to have your opinion and not Gods word ...If the Spirit doesn't convict you to change anything is between you and Yah. I'm sure you will find a few here to agree with you either way.. but what is God saying to your heart is what matters.

Agricola · Dec 17, 2014

So I see you are sticking to the tactics of claiming that anyone who dosn't agree with you is also disagreeing against God.

Brainfreeze · Dec 17, 2014

Agricola said:

Backwards I'm in agreement with God... It's written all over the Bible to leave magic alone, you just aren't having none of that.

Agricola · Dec 17, 2014

Brainfreeze said:

I refer you to my previous post, regarding the issue that you lot are for whatever reason incapable of being able to seperate witchcraft and spell casting from entertainment.

How can you be in agreement with God? It is your interpretation of what you think God thinks. It is your interpretation of those passages.

Do you think people walking on water are doing so because they have summoned demons to make them do it?

Brainfreeze · Dec 17, 2014

Agricola said:

I think they are trying to make a mockery of Yahshua and glorify themselves.. it's terrible
Do you have scripture that God/Yah loves illusions ... Scripture please...

Hizikyah · Dec 17, 2014

Agricola said:

I dont believe in private interpretation, that is why I dont always place my own words on a verse.

but I will here;

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

For outside are...everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood.

You can call falsehood, media propaganda, white lies, illusion, magic, whatever you want deception is deception.

What many today dont realize is that the CREATOR the CREATED us knows how we work that is why He gave us Instructions... He knows "playfully deceiving with magic" breeds/wires the brain in a way that justifies falsehood...

in a way that justifies falsehood

a way that justifies falsehood

way that justifies falsehood

that justifies falsehood

justifies falsehood

falsehood

Proverbs 1:29-31, "Because they hated knowledge, and did not choose to give reverence to Yahweh! Since they would have none of my counsel, and despised all my rebuke and warning. They will eat the fruit of their own ways, and be completely idled with their own devices."

Agricola · Dec 17, 2014

Brainfreeze said:

DO you have a scripture that God Loves using computers and the internet?

You still have not answered me, do you think they have demonic powers or helped by demons to acheive these "supernatural" feats?

Brainfreeze · Dec 17, 2014

Agricola said:

Were illusions " magic " around during the time of Christ, Yes.. Do I think demonic means and influence is present ... Yes, it's lies, you know who the father of lies is right ?

look up a guy named Simon Magus... I would be happy to hear about your research..

Agricola · Dec 17, 2014

So am I right that you seriously think that people who perform illusions and card tricks are doing so because demons are making them do it and helping them do it?

Tell me, is a gun in itself evil or is it the person who pulls the trigger and uses it to murder someone? My ability to perform simple card tricks is nothing to do with demons or Satan and certainly is not sticking a finger up at God.

Jason0047 · Dec 17, 2014

Agricola said:

No need to be sarcastic or rude; I have already stated I was aware of the differences within this thread. But magic tricks and the practice of the dark arts so as to create demonic illusions have a few things in common that you may not want to truly think about.

#1. They can both be called Magicians and or Illussionists.
#2. They are both rooted in deception or trickery so as to dazzle people.
#3. They both give a person a type of power that others do not have.
#4. They both focus or glorify the illusion and not God.
#5. They both make the magician out to be "Great" because of his illusions.

Paul says preaching is not with enticing words of wisdom. But it is with the power of God. So if Paul believes that it is wrong to use even enticing words of man's wisdom, how do you think he would feel about a magic trick along with the gospel to dazzle or entice people?

Jason0047 · Dec 17, 2014

Agricola said:

There is a difference between a person being possessed by a demon, and a person influenced by demons to play with an Ouja Board, and or to involve themselves with magic. There are different levels of influence. But make no mistake, all unbelievers are of the devil's kingdom and they are influenced by demons in some form of another because they reject Jesus Christ and they sin in some way. For seed of the Word of God was taken out of the heart of that person who did not believe.

An idol in and of itself is not evil. It is nothing. But it is what the person does with the creation that is evil. As for guns: I don't believe a Christian should own one.

A Christian shouldn't even say things like that, not even in a joking way. Have a little respect for the Lord God, dear sir.

Agricola · Dec 18, 2014

SO let me get this right, someone standing on stage doing a card trick is being motivated to do so by demons and even helped by demons to perform that trick.

I see none of you have given a simple yes or no and skirting the question with waffle and have just come out with a generic blanket statement which can be applied to anything, so please answer simply and directly, is someone who performs a card trick doing wrong, sinning and being controlled by demons to do it? Worse than a politician.

Also please quit the holier than thou attitudes and refrain from using the "God is on my side" rehtoric, Trying to say I am being sarcastic and rude is for what purpose, to take a higher moral stand and come out smelling better? My post is far from being sarcastic or rude.

Hizikyah · Dec 18, 2014

deception breeds deception.

1 Corinthians 15:33 Do not be deceived: Bad company corrupts righteous character!

My "Magic Shop" dilemma

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