No Longer to Obey Commandments

[p_rehbein]

< . . .she bows deeply >

You know I really do enjoy talking with you.......even if we seem to be at odds.........

 

[Elin]

Jesus said, "Follow me."
Put the Bible down for one minute and look to the Lord Jesus Christ and follow Him.

Where do you find, see and know this Jesus apart from the Bible?

Where do you learn how to follow him apart from the Bible?

 

[oldhermit]

Well, this is a difficult medium sometimes Brother............and I can sympathize with you.......for if you read through all the comments here, you will realize that pretty much no one understood what this OP was about.........

Anyway............what I responded was the first reaction I had to your comment.........

I asked this question earlier with regard to your statement in the OP. Perhaps you over looked it.
You asked the question, "Which takes precedence? The commandments of Christ, or the commandments of Paul?"
I responded, "What makes you think these are different?"

 

[Jeff_56]

"......this is also the case with Yahshua, Jesus never ate any unclean food in his life. If he had eaten unclean pig, then he would have sinned, and he would not be perfect sinless, and YOU would NOT HAVE SALVATION!! It is a sin to eat pork because GOD SAID "Do not eat any unclean thing". you do not need to know WHY a pig is not clean.
trust God.. and then AFTER you trust God, and obey his commandments, then God will explain his commandments.

and no God did not change any animal into a clean animal.
READ ISAIAH chapter 66. it talks about what will happen to those who eat PIG in the last days. God considers them enemies. "

footnote: Info from Israel Hebrew Jewish Believer Abiding in Yahshua with Experiential Knowledge of His Word and Hebrew Life and the Word of Yahweh.

there's no room to argue. God's Word is Simple and True. It is clear to the ekklesia in Him. As HE says, turn to Him and learn from Him. All man has done is mess up.

 

[Elin]

Elin posting NT verses that don't need to be torn out because her
interpretation of them agrees with her doctrine. So, on to your OP question (if I've grabbed the right one):

What is your interpretation of:

"nothing (no food) is unclean in itself." (Ro 14:14)

Keeping in mind he did not say "something."

 

[Elin]

What is of personal interpretation in

"nothing (no food) is unclean in itself" (Ro 14:14)"

Keeping in mind he did not say "something."

Those who argue with such Biblical statements reveal a lot.

Hi. I cannot properly respond to your post (or anyone else's posts in response to mine)
without going off topic, so I'm going to be respectful of p_rehbein and try to only respond to his/her prompting with regards to the OP question.

Convenient. . .

 

[Elin]

I have been reading and studying the Word of God since October of 1978. I love the word of God because it is truth and light and life. It is the WORD ALIVE! But it is Jesus Christ who makes it alive in me. It is a miracle that I see and understand. It is not at all intellectual or carnal. It is a spiritual life that surpasses intellectual understanding. It is all the work of God the Father fulfilling His purposes through me. He gets all the glory.

I rejoice in your study of the Word of God.

 

[p_rehbein]

I asked this question earlier with regard to your statement in the OP. Perhaps you over looked it.
You asked the question, "Which takes precedence? The commandments of Christ, or the commandments of Paul?"
I responded, "What makes you think these are different?"

Ok, I must have missed that........but please consider...........you are having one conversation with me...........I am having many conversations with many other people...........

I have not stated if I do or do not consider them "different." What I am asking is based on what other folks have said on dozens of threads here on CC, and that is that the commandments of Christ have been fulfilled by the two commandments and thus the church is not obligated to keep them. This ideology is prevalent across the BDF. However, these same people, when certain issues/questions are raised concerning how the church is to function immediately begin to quote Scripture and Verse the commandments of the Apostles in their Epistles.

So, my question in the OP was:

IF the two commandments fulfill all other commandments of Christ, do they also fulfill all the commandments of Paul, James and Peter?

Is that more clear?

 

[MarcR]

Sister, you are again returning to the Old Testament...........I am addressing the commandments in the New Testament ONLY. This is the question from the OP:

IF the two commandments fulfill all other commandments of Christ, do they also fulfill all the commandments of Paul, James and Peter?

The answer is ABSOLUTELY YES!

If, as we do, we believe in divine inspiration of Scripture; then we must not make distinctions about who is speaking for God.

 

[p_rehbein]

The answer is ABSOLUTELY YES!

If, as we do, we believe in divine inspiration of Scripture; then we must not make distinctions about who is speaking for God.

So, we do not have to physically obey the commandments of the Apostles they wrote in their Epistles?

 

[Elin]

Sister, you are again returning to the Old Testament...........I am addressing the commandments in the New Testament ONLY. This is the question from the OP:

IF the two commandments fulfill all other commandments of Christ, do they also fulfill all the commandments of Paul, James and Peter?

The two commandments fulfill all the OT commands (Mt 22:40).

The commandments of Peter, Paul, James, and John are the commandments of Christ.

Yes, the commandments of Christ fulfill the commandments of Christ.

You Mecca me crazy. . .

 

[p_rehbein]

The two commandments fulfill all the OT commands (Mt 22:40).

The commandments of Peter, Paul, James, and John are the commandments of Christ.

Yes, the commandments of Christ fulfill the commandments of Christ.

So, we do not have to physically obey the commandments of the Apostles they wrote in their Epistles?

 

[Elin]

So, we do not have to physically obey the commandments of the Apostles they wrote in their Epistles?

Do we have to physically love God and our neighbor?

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

thank you so very much for this answer. And pleas understand that I am not saying that there is a contradiction between what the Apostles taught and the Gospel of Christ............in fact, did Paul not say he taught the Gospel of Christ?

My question is.............if the two commandments make null and void all the other commandments of Christ in His Gospel, do they also make null and void the commandments of the Apostles. Or, more correctly............for null and void may not be the correct way to state it...........so, this way is from the OP:

IF the two commandments fulfill all other commandments of Christ, do they also fulfill all the commandments of Paul, James and Peter?

Christ's commandments/instructions and the commandments/instructions of Paul,James,Peter, are simplified as Christ's faith in us working love towards God and man (neighbor). They are the frame work for the same commands/instructions but with seemingly more complexity, as seen in the New Testament letters outside of the Gospel.To answer your question if they also fulfill the same commandments/instructions given by Christ.......yes

 

[p_rehbein]

Do we have to physically love God and our neighbor?

Good questions......... So, that is a no?

Now, with regards to God...........our physical bodies are a tool He may or may not use to fulfill His purpose for us in this life. Albeit, the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit is the Commander............and we are the vessel He uses.

We worship Him in spirit and in truth..........but it's kinda hard to accomplish the good works He has purposed us for if we do not apply our physical bodies to the task.

Thinking of the list of the gifts of the Spirit here............many of them require some sort of physical exertion do they not?

 

[p_rehbein]

Christ's commandments/instructions and the commandments/instructions of Paul,James,Peter, are simplified as Christ's faith in us working love towards God and man (neighbor). They are the frame work for the same commands/instructions but with seemingly more complexity, as seen in the New Testament letters outside of the Gospel.To answer your question if they also fulfill the same commandments/instructions given by Christ.......yes

So, we do not have to physically obey the commandments of the Apostles they wrote in their Epistles?

 

[oldhermit]

Ok, I must have missed that........but please consider...........you are having one conversation with me...........I am having many conversations with many other people...........

I have not stated if I do or do not consider them "different." What I am asking is based on what other folks have said on dozens of threads here on CC, and that is that the commandments of Christ have been fulfilled by the two commandments and thus the church is not obligated to keep them. This ideology is prevalent across the BDF. However, these same people, when certain issues/questions are raised concerning how the church is to function immediately begin to quote Scripture and Verse the commandments of the Apostles in their Epistles.

So, my question in the OP was:

IF the two commandments fulfill all other commandments of Christ, do they also fulfill all the commandments of Paul, James and Peter?

Is that more clear?

I think you are not asking this question properly or else I am still not understanding what you are asking. The two commandments in and of themselves fulfill nothing but, everything within the framework of the gospel (which included everything recordes in the NT) fulfill these two commandments. Just as in the Law of Moses, every other commandment found within the framework of that Law fulfilled both of these commandments. The 10 commandments are all summed up in the two great commandments - Love God and Love your neighbor. Under both covenants the first four commandments define man's proper relationship to God while the following six define man's relationship to man. These are eternal principles upon which both covenants rest.

 

[MarcR]

So, we do not have to physically obey the commandments of the Apostles they wrote in their Epistles?

Forgive my jumping in here; but since Elin and I are in substantial agreement here you would have heard my position anyway.


My understanding is that in saying those two commandments fulfill all, the intent is that any commandment in Scripture is to be viewed in light of the stated intent of these two. No commandment is to be ignored; but no observance is required that goes beyond their summarized intent.

 

[p_rehbein]

Forgive my jumping in here; but since Elin and I are in substantial agreement here you would have heard my position anyway.


My understanding is that in saying those two commandments fulfill all, the intent is that any commandment in Scripture is to be viewed in light of the stated intent of these two. No commandment is to be ignored; but no observance is required that goes beyond their summarized intent.

Sorry Brother........but this appears to be a dodge...........just saying......that could be applied to ALL of Christ's commandments regardless of which Testament they are found in.

Summarized intent? Jesus said: If you love me, you would obey me. What part of that is a summarized intent?

 

[p_rehbein]

I think you are not asking this question properly or else I am still not understanding what you are asking. The two commandments in and of themselves fulfill nothing but, everything within the framework of the gospel (which included everything recordes in the NT) fulfill these two commandments. Just as in the Law of Moses, every other commandment found within the framework of that Law fulfilled both of these commandments. The 10 commandments are all summed up in the two great commandments - Love God and Love your neighbor. Under both covenants the first four commandments define man's proper relationship to God while the following six define man's relationship to man. These are eternal principles upon which both covenants rest.

Well, that is certainly a different direction to come from. But I am asking the question properly, for this is how it is presented by those who believe as I stated in the OP, and several other times here.

THEY.......I repeat........THEY believe that IF THEY obey the two commandments........THEY are not required to obey any other commandments.........given that, I have properly stated the question that I wish answered.