No Longer to Obey Commandments

[dcontroversal]

Could you tell me what his point is?

Keeping the commandments of the N.T. and if we are supposed to........or NOT and a bunch of other thoughts I suppose.....I worked with a Church of God janitor at a machine shop where I machined parts for jets and missiles......he believed in works and law adherance/command adherance for salvation.........!

 

[VioletReigns]

Could you tell me what his point is?

The point is the LORD is speaking to us NOW... we are not following laws and commandments... because of grace, we who are now alive in His Spirit are following the Law Fulfilled, Jesus Christ.

 

[p_rehbein]

Until the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers abrogates them.

Ok, Hebrews, Chapter 1:1 .) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 .) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


So, that is a YES..........right? Ok, so why are there those who say that we do not have to obey the commandments of Christ? If we are to obey all the commandments contained in the Epistles of the Apostles, how is it even possible that they would supersede the commandments of Christ?

 

[p_rehbein]

Belief in the inspiration of scripture puts all commands in Scripture on a basis of equal authority.

I, and I believe most of us opposing your position, agree that true Salvation causes habitual obedience; but not perfect obedience yet. The point of disagreement is whether works have a role in Salvation or whether perfect obedience is possible before the rapture.

Don't know what you guys are arguing.............but that IS NOT the point of this OP........and it's fairly clear that folks are just not able to grasp the idea.......or are unwilling to answer the question

With the exception of one person, all have failed to address the point of the OP.

Now, I'm not sure how ANYONE can be "opposing" my position, as I HAVE NOT taken a position on this. All I have done is pose a very simple question. Ok, maybe two or three. But I HAVE NOT stated my belief/position. So if they are opposing me, how is that even possible?

 

[VioletReigns]

In the worldly realm, it is common knowledge that "ignorance is no excuse of the law." And yet we do not study a book about laws to keep from going to prison. Why? Because the law assumes you have been brought up to know right from wrong. You will be condemned and judged by the law.

In the spiritual realm, no matter how hard you try, you will not fulfill the law and will always be guilty. No matter how many commandments you obey, no matter how good you think you are, you will have secret inward things in your heart you don't even recognize that are against the holiness of God. Your own heart is condemning you RIGHT NOW with the things you hide from others that you know you're guilty of. You will never, ever be perfect no matter how hard you try. Nothing you do can meet the requirements of the holiness of God. Nothing. Your efforts are filthy rags.

Jesus Christ paid the price for you. He does not condemn you. He redeemed you. Why are you going to keep trying to be holy and worry about what commandments to keep and strive to obey every single law, OT & NT when you already know you cannot do it?

Jesus said, "Follow me." Put the Bible down for one minute and look to the Lord Jesus Christ and follow Him.

 

[sparty-g]

EVERYONE. Please stay ON TOPIC.........if you can not do that, then please start your own thread. At least have that much respect for the question(s) I am asking............if for no other reason, then this is how one should treat a fellow believer.

Thanks

I apologize, I went off topic. To be fair though, I just followed the trail you started with talking about tearing out pages of the Bible, and Elin posting NT verses that don't need to be torn out because her interpretation of them agrees with her doctrine. So, on to your OP question (if I've grabbed the right one):

IF the two commandments fulfill all other commandments of Christ, do they also fulfill all the commandments of Paul, James and Peter?

I don't agree with the proposal that the two greatest commands fulfill all the other commands of the Messiah. Many others have already said what I'm about to say: they are principle or summary commands. The Messiah said they are the most important two, not the only ones. They don't replace the others. If you prioritize these things, you'll have the right heart to desire God's will to live how He has revealed through His commands, the prophets, the Messiah's life, and the writing of the apostles (properly understood). So yes, I suggest doing what the Messiah commands. He's our Master. And look at His actions since actions can speak louder than words. None of this makes you a legalist. You're not doing it to merit salvation but because you are saved and love God with all your heart, mind, and strength, and your neighbor as yourself.

It sounds like you are trying to test something you picked up on this board. Good for you. Paul says to test doctrine presented to us. So, to answer your question, we should be keeping the teachings of the Messiah and His disciples/apostles. The two greatest commands don't replace what the disciples teach. These teachings should be equal and in agreement if the disciples are truly teaching after the manner of the Father and Son. It's their job to match the Father and Son, not the other way around.

About whoever told you to ignore all Christ's command except the two most important ones... maybe you misunderstood that person? Or maybe not, since there are many people who feel that much of what the Messiah said has no practical application to believers today. When He makes obvious pro-Law statements, they say those were meant for a dead works people living under the Law. If he seemingly makes statements that agree with their personal doctrine, then they selectively say those apply to us today. Convenient system. Farley's "The Naked Gospel" makes this same exact argument. We end up becoming the authors of our own faith when this is our interpretive method.

Keep all your Bible pages, please.

 

[Elin]

Simply put, Jesus is the Law. If we are alive in Him, if His Holy Spirit is in us, we are following Him and obeying Him.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” John 14:6

Is Jesus’ statement true because he said it was true or is it true in and of itself, even before he said it? If we did not have a recording of the events that took place with the disciples, would he still be the truth? Would I be wrong in claiming that he was the truth if I hadn’t read these words?

If we find ourselves standing upon particular statements of truth, rather than upon the One who is being testified to by the Biblical record,
we might want to reevaluate our approach to the Bible.

Thanks.

As The Truth is a Person, so divine revealed truth is propositional.

All divine truth, in person or in revelation, are one and the same.

To stand upon a divine statement of truth is the same as standing upon the testimony of the One testified to in the Biblical record.

Is there something afoot which seeks to separate God from his word,
to separate the Spirit from the letter (grammar) he wrote,
to separate the Person who is Truth from his testimony which is truth (Jn 1:51, 3:3, 5, 11, etc., etc., etc.),

in order to cut God's truth from its objective moorings in his word so it can drift along in personal subjective notions of it?

 

[p_rehbein]

I apologize, I went off topic. To be fair though, I just followed the trail you started with talking about tearing out pages of the Bible, and Elin posting NT verses that don't need to be torn out because her interpretation of them agrees with her doctrine. So, on to your OP question (if I've grabbed the right one):

IF the two commandments fulfill all other commandments of Christ, do they also fulfill all the commandments of Paul, James and Peter?

I don't agree with the proposal that the two greatest commands fulfill all the other commands of the Messiah. Many others have already said what I'm about to say: they are principle or summary commands. The Messiah said they are the most important two, not the only ones. They don't replace the others. If you prioritize these things, you'll have the right heart to desire God's will to live how He has revealed through His commands, the prophets, the Messiah's life, and the writing of the apostles (properly understood). So yes, I suggest doing what the Messiah commands. He's our Master. And look at His actions since actions can speak louder than words. None of this makes you a legalist. You're not doing it to merit salvation but because you are saved and love God with all your heart, mind, and strength, and your neighbor as yourself.

It sounds like you are trying to test something you picked up on this board. Good for you. Paul says to test doctrine presented to us. So, to answer your question, we should be keeping the teachings of the Messiah and His disciples/apostles. The two greatest commands don't replace what the disciples teach. These teachings should be equal and in agreement if the disciples are truly teaching after the manner of the Father and Son. It's their job to match the Father and Son, not the other way around.

About whoever told you to ignore all Christ's command except the two most important ones... maybe you misunderstood that person? Or maybe not, since there are many people who feel that much of what the Messiah said has no practical application to believers today. When He makes obvious pro-Law statements, they say those were meant for a dead works people living under the Law. If he seemingly makes statements that agree with their personal doctrine, then they selectively say those apply to us today. Convenient system. Farley's "The Naked Gospel" makes this same exact argument. We end up becoming the authors of our own faith when this is our interpretive method.

Keep all your Bible pages, please.

Thank you for actually addressing the OP. God bless you for that. Yes, Sister Elin and I were involved in a separate conversation...........other than the OP...........so, I can understand the confusion.

I am hoping we get back to the topic of the OP though. No, I did not misunderstand what I have read here, what has been posted in response to my comments on the BD Forum. There is a wide variety of folks here with a wide variety of ideologies, and I have pretty much seen all of them at one time or another. (edited to add: to be fair........I may or may not agree with you on this........ )

 

[sparty-g]

What is of personal interpretation in

"nothing (no food) is unclean in itself" (Ro 14:14)"

Those who argue with such Biblical statements reveal a lot.

Hi. I cannot properly respond to your post (or anyone else's posts in response to mine) without going off topic, so I'm going to be respectful of p_rehbein and try to only respond to his/her prompting with regards to the OP question.

 

[VioletReigns]

I have been reading and studying the Word of God since October of 1978. I love the word of God because it is truth and light and life. It is the WORD ALIVE! But it is Jesus Christ who makes it alive in me. It is a miracle that I see and understand. It is not at all intellectual or carnal. It is a spiritual life that surpasses intellectual understanding. It is all the work of God the Father fulfilling His purposes through me. He gets all the glory.

 

[p_rehbein]

Hi. I cannot properly respond to your post (or anyone else's posts in response to mine) without going off topic, so I'm going to be respectful of p_rehbein and try to only respond to his/her prompting with regards to the OP question.

Sister, know that I do value your thoughts/opinions............not just blowing smoke either.............God bless

Oops, Sparty, thought Elin wrote that.............but, hey, it applies to you as well.........

 

[sparty-g]

Thank you for actually addressing the OP. God bless you for that. Yes, Sister Elin and I were involved in a separate conversation...........other than the OP...........so, I can understand the confusion.

I am hoping we get back to the topic of the OP though. No, I did not misunderstand what I have read here, what has been posted in response to my comments on the BD Forum. There is a wide variety of folks here with a wide variety of ideologies, and I have pretty much seen all of them at one time or another. (edited to add: to be fair........I may or may not agree with you on this........ )

Fair enough. I apologize again and don't intend to respond to anyone's prompting but yours from here on out. Do you have any particular response to what I said? If not, I'm probably going to leave this thread for now.

 

[p_rehbein]

Fair enough. I apologize again and don't intend to respond to anyone's prompting but yours from here on out. Do you have any particular response to what I said? If not, I'm probably going to leave this thread for now.

Let me read it through.........I am trying to remain neutral here..........but eventually will have to state my belief in this....I know.......and, maybe, if no other member is willing to address the question, I will go ahead and do so..........just check back in from time to time to see if I have posted my "position."

 

[GracethroughfaithinChrist]

Just a thought here........but if this is true.......that we do not have to obey commandments any longer because we are under Grace, then please explain this..........

The Apostle Paul and the numerous commandments he issued to the churches in his Epistles.

Which takes precedence? The commandments of Christ, or the commandments of Paul?

Just a few days ago a person on this Forum told me that we were no longer obligated to follow the commandments of Christ other than the specific to of "loving God, and loving our Neighbor."

Ok.

So, I took a look at some other threads, and this same person was going off on the idea of women pastors and quoting the commandments of Paul.

??????????

Is it just me? Seriously?

Anyway, just a thought.............

In answer to the OP,
Brother Paul spoke being moved by God's Holy Spirit in Him when giving commandments/instructions to the churches in his letters. It seems this is a continuance of Christ's instructions/commands given by His Holy Spirit through Paul, Peter, and all others who received the promise at Pentecost and afterward to establish what God wants for the church. It's God's work regardless of who gives the message. If one could show a contradiction in Paul's letters to Christ's commandments/instructions....... then Christ's commands and instructions would always be greater but Paul's letters coincide with the same message. The question is like who's word is greater, the owner or the employee? The owner of course but his employee is communicating the owners wishes as his employee.

My apologies for the late response here, had to bring in groceries (no peanuts errr)

 

[oldhermit]

So, the new covenant grace did not make into one all of Gods people.........??? By His fulfilling the prophecies of the 1st and establishing the 2nd, He did not reconcile all to God? Hmm

(will return later........errands to run)

Still does not address the commandments of Paul, Peter and James though.................would really like an answer on those.

I am not sure how on earth you got this out of my post. This is not all what I was saying.

 

[p_rehbein]

In answer to the OP,
Brother Paul spoke being moved by God's Holy Spirit in Him when giving commandments/instructions to the churches in his letters. It seems this is a continuance of Christ's instructions/commands given by His Holy Spirit through Paul, Peter, and all others who received the promise at Pentecost and afterward to establish what God wants for the church. It's God's work regardless of who gives the message. If one could show a contradiction in Paul's letters to Christ's commandments/instructions....... then Christ's commands and instructions would always be greater but Paul's letters coincide with the same message. The question is like who's word is greater, the owner or the employee? The owner of course but his employee is communicating the owners wishes as his employee.

My apologies for the late response here, had to bring in groceries (no peanuts errr)

thank you so very much for this answer. And pleas understand that I am not saying that there is a contradiction between what the Apostles taught and the Gospel of Christ............in fact, did Paul not say he taught the Gospel of Christ?

My question is.............if the two commandments make null and void all the other commandments of Christ in His Gospel, do they also make null and void the commandments of the Apostles. Or, more correctly............for null and void may not be the correct way to state it...........so, this way is from the OP:

IF the two commandments fulfill all other commandments of Christ, do they also fulfill all the commandments of Paul, James and Peter?

 

[Elin]

Ok, Hebrews, Chapter 1:1 .) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 .) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

And he has spoken to us by his Son through the NT writers.
All Scripture is God-breathed (2Tim 2:16).

So, that is a YES..........right? Ok, so why are there those who say that we do not have to obey the commandments of Christ? If we are to obey all the commandments contained in the Epistles of the Apostles, how is it even possible that they would supersede the commandments of Christ?

Did you miss Mt 22:37-40 where Christ said all the OT is accomplished in obeying his two commandments?

 

[p_rehbein]

I am not sure how on earth you got this out of my post. This is not all what I was saying.

Well, this is a difficult medium sometimes Brother............and I can sympathize with you.......for if you read through all the comments here, you will realize that pretty much no one understood what this OP was about.........

Anyway............what I responded was the first reaction I had to your comment.........

 

[p_rehbein]

And he has spoken to us by his Son through the NT writers.
All Scripture is God-breathed (2Tim 2:16).


Did you miss Mt 22:37-40 where Christ said all the OT is accomplished in obeying his two commandments?

Sister, you are again returning to the Old Testament...........I am addressing the commandments in the New Testament ONLY. This is the question from the OP:

IF the two commandments fulfill all other commandments of Christ, do they also fulfill all the commandments of Paul, James and Peter?

 

[Elin]

Don't know what you guys are arguing.............but that IS NOT the point of this OP........and it's fairly clear that folks are just not able to grasp the idea.......or are unwilling to answer the question

With the exception of one person, all have failed to address the point of the OP.

Now, I'm not sure how ANYONE can be "opposing" my position, as I HAVE NOT taken a position on this. All I have done is pose a very simple question. Ok, maybe two or three. But I HAVE NOT stated my belief/position. So if they are opposing me, how is that even possible?

< . . .she bows deeply >