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You said - "There are those righteous by the law".
It simply isn't true.
This goes to the heart of the argument. - Romans 3:20
"Therefore by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in His sight...."
Which brings us back to faith and first cause.
Since it is obvious faith is a gift from God, and no flesh(mankind) is justified in God's sight by the works(doing) of His Law(even if we could).........where does that leave us?
I ask you.
It leaves us where I and all the N.T. writers said; under His grace and mercy.
Why did Jesus send the paracleate(comforter)? - John 17
Was it not to guide us;(who are elected as His, BY Him; predestined to receive His grace? - Eph 1:5;11.
I go back to two premisses:
1) God chose us(none shall take us out of His Hand)
2) We cannot serve two masters.
It simply isn't true.
This goes to the heart of the argument. - Romans 3:20
"Therefore by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified in His sight...."
Which brings us back to faith and first cause.
Since it is obvious faith is a gift from God, and no flesh(mankind) is justified in God's sight by the works(doing) of His Law(even if we could).........where does that leave us?
I ask you.
It leaves us where I and all the N.T. writers said; under His grace and mercy.
Why did Jesus send the paracleate(comforter)? - John 17
Was it not to guide us;(who are elected as His, BY Him; predestined to receive His grace? - Eph 1:5;11.
I go back to two premisses:
1) God chose us(none shall take us out of His Hand)
2) We cannot serve two masters.
C
Rick if you cannot go and study that word 'righteousness' in the OT, how can we even talk about what you have not done in study? Do you wish for me to post thw 195 or so verses which say that those of the old testament found their righteousness by the Law. Come now, at least try to see what I am saying.
G
True, wuv, I mean, love, 'as you wish,' indeed, from Wesley of The Princess Bride, but cee originally coined the term , TPB stole it. Right, cee ?
There was a huge legal battle over this , wrastlings over the CONTEXT of the words , people choosing to argue when all that needed done to have stopped litany of accusations, three words said, comforting words, words which would've stopped the divisiveness that, ultimately, led , like the accusational break up , based in demands of getting own king ala God's chosen people Israelites, LED to DEATH. you know, not. Ack! keel over dead, but live deadness, like Adam ablne Eve whose good life (ha, you thoufht only 'Miller' had all the 'good life!' ) but yeah , God said adam and Eve would 'die' and , yip, they sure did, banished to a life of toil that was DEATH compared to paradise living. Oh, what a change !
.
But, Yes, 3 words coulda STOPPED EVERYTHING, legal dollars from both sides drying the other broker than a snail who couldn't't afford a shell. Sigh , three peaceful words....
As you wish
There was a huge legal battle over this , wrastlings over the CONTEXT of the words , people choosing to argue when all that needed done to have stopped litany of accusations, three words said, comforting words, words which would've stopped the divisiveness that, ultimately, led , like the accusational break up , based in demands of getting own king ala God's chosen people Israelites, LED to DEATH. you know, not. Ack! keel over dead, but live deadness, like Adam ablne Eve whose good life (ha, you thoufht only 'Miller' had all the 'good life!' ) but yeah , God said adam and Eve would 'die' and , yip, they sure did, banished to a life of toil that was DEATH compared to paradise living. Oh, what a change !
. But, Yes, 3 words coulda STOPPED EVERYTHING, legal dollars from both sides drying the other broker than a snail who couldn't't afford a shell. Sigh , three peaceful words....
As you wish
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G
True, wuv, I mean, love, 'as you wish,' indeed, from Wesley of The Princess Bride, but cee originally coined the term , TPB stole it. Right, cee ?
There was a huge legal battle over this , wrastlings over the CONTEXT of the words , people choosing to argue when all that needed done to have stopped litany of accusations, three words said, comforting words, words which would've stopped the divisiveness that, ultimately, led , like the accusational break up , based in demands of getting own king ala God's chosen people Israelites, LED to DEATH. you know, not. Ack! keel over dead, but live deadness, like Adam ablne Eve whose good life (ha, you thoufht only 'Miller' had all the 'good life!' ) but yeah , God said adam and Eve would 'die' and , yip, they sure did, banished to a life of toil that was DEATH compared to paradise living. Oh, what a change !.
But, Yes, 3 words coulda STOPPED EVERYTHING, legal dollars from both sides drying the other broker than a snail who couldn't't afford a shell. Sigh , three peaceful words....
As you wish
There was a huge legal battle over this , wrastlings over the CONTEXT of the words , people choosing to argue when all that needed done to have stopped litany of accusations, three words said, comforting words, words which would've stopped the divisiveness that, ultimately, led , like the accusational break up , based in demands of getting own king ala God's chosen people Israelites, LED to DEATH. you know, not. Ack! keel over dead, but live deadness, like Adam ablne Eve whose good life (ha, you thoufht only 'Miller' had all the 'good life!' ) but yeah , God said adam and Eve would 'die' and , yip, they sure did, banished to a life of toil that was DEATH compared to paradise living. Oh, what a change !
. But, Yes, 3 words coulda STOPPED EVERYTHING, legal dollars from both sides drying the other broker than a snail who couldn't't afford a shell. Sigh , three peaceful words....
As you wish
lol I am still waiting on royalites
-------()-------
One day, cee, you will be máster over many things, royally in charge, running a great mansión on earth, a 'new earth.' Keep on toiling, blessedly toiling for Him , He will contine to WORK great things until that glorious day you can finally see Him, shining, face to face
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If I try to do my own thing(as I have); I will be brought back.
If I continue to kick against the pricks (as it were), God will correct me with His rod until I stop.
What if I never stop rebelling?
I will.....(I have).
Because I know that He keeps me; and if I try to willfully sin He cuts it off quick.
Can I go out and renounce Him and serve satan?
I suppose. But that IS the point!
Why would I? He has made His love abundantly clear to me.
When I try to do right,...He is there.
When I go my own way and try to do wrong,....He is there.
He is always there.
Until I finally found that what I do is no longer I but Jesus Christ within me. (His purposes working through me) - Galatians 2:20 paraphrased.
Does that make me a robot? - No!
Because there are many different things I could be doing for His glory besides arguing on this site. (Freewill).
I could be recording a song, or practicing guitar, or going to a seminary, or preaching on a street corner, or starting a church, or playing at a church, or becoming a missionary, or writing a book; etc, etc.
There are many different ways to glorify the Lord everyday.
No robots here, (in the kingdom of heaven).
If I continue to kick against the pricks (as it were), God will correct me with His rod until I stop.
What if I never stop rebelling?
I will.....(I have).
Because I know that He keeps me; and if I try to willfully sin He cuts it off quick.
Can I go out and renounce Him and serve satan?
I suppose. But that IS the point!
Why would I? He has made His love abundantly clear to me.
When I try to do right,...He is there.
When I go my own way and try to do wrong,....He is there.
He is always there.
Until I finally found that what I do is no longer I but Jesus Christ within me. (His purposes working through me) - Galatians 2:20 paraphrased.
Does that make me a robot? - No!
Because there are many different things I could be doing for His glory besides arguing on this site. (Freewill).
I could be recording a song, or practicing guitar, or going to a seminary, or preaching on a street corner, or starting a church, or playing at a church, or becoming a missionary, or writing a book; etc, etc.
There are many different ways to glorify the Lord everyday.
No robots here, (in the kingdom of heaven).
C
-------()-------
One day, cee, you will be máster over many things, royally in charge, running a great mansión on earth, a 'new earth.' Keep on toiling, blessedly toiling for Him , He will contine to WORK great things until that glorious day you can finally see Him, shining, face to face
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fb_vRkDBUB4[/video]
You posted four or five verses and I refuted your argument.
I showed you how they did.
I can study the word 'righteousness' in the O.T.,
but I can't prove to you it's context.
Because I already have and you refuse to listen.
Can you see it's context?
A word means one thing in context.
Try to find any verses that support your claim that righteousness is found in the law by souls.
Those four or five you listed didn't, and I showed you how.
Come now Chris,
If you aren't even going to bother to find the context the word 'righteousness' is used in the writings of the O.T., how can we have a dilalogue?
I showed you how they did.
I can study the word 'righteousness' in the O.T.,
but I can't prove to you it's context.
Because I already have and you refuse to listen.
Can you see it's context?
A word means one thing in context.
Try to find any verses that support your claim that righteousness is found in the law by souls.
Those four or five you listed didn't, and I showed you how.
Come now Chris,
If you aren't even going to bother to find the context the word 'righteousness' is used in the writings of the O.T., how can we have a dilalogue?
C
ok rick you win. I will not psot the one hundred ninthy eight verses speaking about righteousness in the old testiment. I will not post that thread here. Whatever Rick. I have given you a link so that you could see what I was saying and I would have been more than glad to talk to you about it if you would have at least read even the first post of that thread, even read some of the verses which says that the people of the Law obtained righteousness through obedience of the Law.
You win Rick.
You win Rick.
You are most certainly not the only person who has quoted Matthew 23:37.
EDIT: I was referring mostly to experiences in general, but also I did have in mind some specific people from the forums.
EDIT: I was referring mostly to experiences in general, but also I did have in mind some specific people from the forums.
J
I figured as much, and from what had been provided to you I think it was a reasonable conclusion.
It is a rather common verse that is cited as support of Libertarian Free Will.
EDIT: Not to say I was not worried you were using Matthew 23:37 in the same manner though. It most certainly appeared as such, given what you were using it in response to.
It is a rather common verse that is cited as support of Libertarian Free Will.
EDIT: Not to say I was not worried you were using Matthew 23:37 in the same manner though. It most certainly appeared as such, given what you were using it in response to.
Cfultz,
I didn't win.
Not one soul obtained righteousness by 'observing' the law.
Because there wasn't one found who did observe it.
Jesus won, because He did.
The scriptures of both testaments testify to this fact.
From Genesis 3:15 to the Lamb that was slain who broke the seventh seal in revelation 8:1.
The whole bible speaks of one man.
I didn't win.
Jesus did.
Hear ye Him.
I didn't win.
Not one soul obtained righteousness by 'observing' the law.
Because there wasn't one found who did observe it.
Jesus won, because He did.
The scriptures of both testaments testify to this fact.
From Genesis 3:15 to the Lamb that was slain who broke the seventh seal in revelation 8:1.
The whole bible speaks of one man.
I didn't win.
Jesus did.
Hear ye Him.
Yes Chris, there were far more than ten.
But they were not brought into the presence of God (heaven), until Jesus was the first fruits of righteousness. (They were kept in Abraham's bosom until the first fruits of righteousness came)-I Cor. 15:23-"But every man in his own order:Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming"; until that first fruits of righteousness(Jesus) presented them to God.
There were thousands........waiting in paradise.......
Only one man fulfilled the law.
Unless you can find a place in the O.T. that says a man was without sin? (Without breaking the law of God in even one point).
Oh.....there were plenty 'righteous' ......(well a few)......but none without spot, without blemish.
Only one human could break the last seal. (Remember how the apostle John cried?)
No one appeared before the Father before Jesus. - - -
Remember He led captivity captive "when He ascended up on high, and gave gifts to men" - Eph.4:8.
Now, who do you think Hew was giving gifts to on high? - Sinners? Reprobates? - Or the saved in Abraham's bosom?
But they were not brought into the presence of God (heaven), until Jesus was the first fruits of righteousness. (They were kept in Abraham's bosom until the first fruits of righteousness came)-I Cor. 15:23-"But every man in his own order:Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming"; until that first fruits of righteousness(Jesus) presented them to God.
There were thousands........waiting in paradise.......
Only one man fulfilled the law.
Unless you can find a place in the O.T. that says a man was without sin? (Without breaking the law of God in even one point).
Oh.....there were plenty 'righteous' ......(well a few)......but none without spot, without blemish.
Only one human could break the last seal. (Remember how the apostle John cried?)
No one appeared before the Father before Jesus. - - -
Remember He led captivity captive "when He ascended up on high, and gave gifts to men" - Eph.4:8.
Now, who do you think Hew was giving gifts to on high? - Sinners? Reprobates? - Or the saved in Abraham's bosom?