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G
I was really getting into the conversation, until Seek turned it into a book with enough red text to make it an acid trip.
PM me when someone made a succinct argument.
PM me when someone made a succinct argument.
John MacArthur has a nice series titled "Battle for the Beginning". In the first message he sets the challenge of faith in accepting Genesis as the inerrant, literal Word of God. The crux of his message is fairly succinct--regardless of our thoughts on the matter, if we don't concede the beginning to God, we certainly can't concede the end to Him. Or simply, we disallow ourselves from ever having true faith, or the maturity of true faith, because we fail to accept the seed God chose to plant first. It literally comes down to a "trust" issue.
Take the scene in the garden of Eden, the initial command of God to abstain from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and man's choice to disobey. Man, through the serpent's prompting, questioned God's authorship of truth.
Gen 1, "And he said to the woman, “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?”
Gen 2, "And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, ‘You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.’”
Gen 4, "Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
"In the beginning God..." requires us to throw out any other possible notion of inception apart from Him. We have to "trust" Genesis regardless of how nonsensical it sounds to our modes of discourse and experience in the 21st century. We have to trust God's framework of revelation and His initial command despite science dangling particles that claim Genesis to be false. It literally is a battle for the beginning.
I read a great many posters who write, "I feel that", "I think that", "God has shown me", "I believe", etc. We should see and hear the serpent's voice in those claims as they are clearly not "In the beginning God", but rather, "In the beginning I say God..." But folly has its way with all of us.
A
You are correct. I meant to say probable. I misused words.
The reason I am interested in the argument, is as I stated in my last reply, the evidence we have suggests that in order for us to have crossed over to other continents without intervention, the Bible would have to be off by over 10,000 years. If the bible is not off by 10,000 years, than it would've been impossible for Noah and any of his family to cross the oceans to other continents. So then when God told Noah to repopulate the Earth, He really meant that He would repopulate the Earth?
I am really intrigued at all the different responses I have gotten, and I am thinking about them constantly, trying to form some sort of answer. Keep them coming please.
The reason I am interested in the argument, is as I stated in my last reply, the evidence we have suggests that in order for us to have crossed over to other continents without intervention, the Bible would have to be off by over 10,000 years. If the bible is not off by 10,000 years, than it would've been impossible for Noah and any of his family to cross the oceans to other continents. So then when God told Noah to repopulate the Earth, He really meant that He would repopulate the Earth?
I am really intrigued at all the different responses I have gotten, and I am thinking about them constantly, trying to form some sort of answer. Keep them coming please.
A
Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to the Genealogies of the Bible, the Tower of Babel was constructed no more than 300 years after the flood. That makes it an awfully small time crunch to form enough working able men to build a tower, not including the time it would take to gather and make the materials. It just seems bordered on impossible.
Im off to work again. sorry about my lack of involvement. I switched from day shift to night shift, and am still trying to get my sleep schedule right. I hope to respond tomorrow morning.
Im off to work again. sorry about my lack of involvement. I switched from day shift to night shift, and am still trying to get my sleep schedule right. I hope to respond tomorrow morning.
The BIble is not entirely the word of God, since good chunks of it were written by men, who interpreted and reported God's words and divine events.
Also, let us not confuse the OT with the NT. This is a Christian Chat, right?
NT rules supreme, and Christ did indeed question a few bits from the OT, sending the high priests into a frenzy.
The Bible should not be taken 100% literally. It is far too wealthy and complex of a text to be undermined in such a way. It deserves thorough studying, analysis, and deep comprehension. Why would anyone take such divine text so lightly to simply interpret it literally?
Cheers.
Also, let us not confuse the OT with the NT. This is a Christian Chat, right?
NT rules supreme, and Christ did indeed question a few bits from the OT, sending the high priests into a frenzy.
The Bible should not be taken 100% literally. It is far too wealthy and complex of a text to be undermined in such a way. It deserves thorough studying, analysis, and deep comprehension. Why would anyone take such divine text so lightly to simply interpret it literally?
Cheers.
L
The BIble is not entirely the word of God, since good chunks of it were written by men, who interpreted and reported God's words and divine events.
Also, let us not confuse the OT with the NT. This is a Christian Chat, right?
NT rules supreme, and Christ did indeed question a few bits from the OT, sending the high priests into a frenzy.
The Bible should not be taken 100% literally. It is far too wealthy and complex of a text to be undermined in such a way. It deserves thorough studying, analysis, and deep comprehension. Why would anyone take such divine text so lightly to simply interpret it literally?
Cheers.
Also, let us not confuse the OT with the NT. This is a Christian Chat, right?
NT rules supreme, and Christ did indeed question a few bits from the OT, sending the high priests into a frenzy.
The Bible should not be taken 100% literally. It is far too wealthy and complex of a text to be undermined in such a way. It deserves thorough studying, analysis, and deep comprehension. Why would anyone take such divine text so lightly to simply interpret it literally?
Cheers.
2 Timothy 3:16
(16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2 Peter 1:21
(21) For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
P
What I find amazing is that one could quote from the Word as if it's true in some situations and then want to use human reason above it in others.
I'm honestly not trying to start a quarrel, I just really don't understand that. We are to come to God with faith like a child, right? Either all of what the Lord (the Word) says is true, or none of it is. We don't get to choose. And we don't (shouldn't?) need it to make sense to our faulty, sinful human minds.
I adjure us who are the children of the Most High to rest in (accept) His Word, which is Truth. One day we will understand (see) it; until that day we have faith.
~ellie
I'm honestly not trying to start a quarrel, I just really don't understand that. We are to come to God with faith like a child, right? Either all of what the Lord (the Word) says is true, or none of it is. We don't get to choose. And we don't (shouldn't?) need it to make sense to our faulty, sinful human minds.
I adjure us who are the children of the Most High to rest in (accept) His Word, which is Truth. One day we will understand (see) it; until that day we have faith.
~ellie
N
Yes the Word of God is always true, but our interpretation differs. The Bible was never intended to be a book of science and shouldn't be read as such.
I think it's dangerous to be so dogmatic about your own interpretation of scripture as to hinder others from believing.
We don't know if Genesis was written as an actual account of events, or a story for the Jews to understand the bigger picture, as we see Christ all the way through it. The geneology from Adam to Noah even tells the story of mans redemption - Look up the meanings of the names some time - it's amazing!
I think it's dangerous to be so dogmatic about your own interpretation of scripture as to hinder others from believing.
We don't know if Genesis was written as an actual account of events, or a story for the Jews to understand the bigger picture, as we see Christ all the way through it. The geneology from Adam to Noah even tells the story of mans redemption - Look up the meanings of the names some time - it's amazing!
The Israelite nation went from 2 souls, Abraham and Sarah, to about 1 million in 530 years (through Issac only); therefore, does it not seem possible that there could be that many when starting with 8 souls (Noah and family). How many people does it take to build a tower anyway?
We believe GOD when we believe HIS WORD, and that emphatically. And don't forget, what is impossible with man is possible with GOD. And when it comes to oppostions posed by the science of man, 1 Tim 6:20 is quite clear that man's science is falsely called so, meaning it really is not tell the truth.
I like the way you dispell some of the false assertions given in this thread by using the simple Word of GOD; so keep it up Astallia!
Thats Good,
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
8 edamic souls, and two of every flesh
Nice to Believe our Fathers WORD
"Ibe"
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
8 edamic souls, and two of every flesh
Nice to Believe our Fathers WORD
"Ibe"
A
When talking about re population, the math behind it is an exponential increase. Each year, they would produce more people than the previous year. So while they produced 1 million people in 530 years, you would have less than (or just about) half of that population, if the math is sound (this is just theory, as I do not know the actual calculation to figure it out, but I am sure that the estimation is sound.).
And honestly 300 years is being overtly generous. Peleg's lifetime was 293 years. Sometime in there the Tower was built, as he was known as "Division". Since his name was "division", it is safer to assume that it was already divided when he was born. This gives humanity 101 years. That truly makes Noah repopulating the world by himself, impossible. That is less than 1 generation in their time.
And honestly 300 years is being overtly generous. Peleg's lifetime was 293 years. Sometime in there the Tower was built, as he was known as "Division". Since his name was "division", it is safer to assume that it was already divided when he was born. This gives humanity 101 years. That truly makes Noah repopulating the world by himself, impossible. That is less than 1 generation in their time.
Oh My ,
greatblue, I really need to adress this with you as this is a Bible Discussion Form,and as you have quoted being a Teacher I'm concern for your lack of understanding, I'm sure I dont have the education you do, but you seem to me to very over Qualified . I'm sure you will agree Judgment begin's at the House of the Lord, Do you uderstand what that means "I hope SO"
Gen2 :1-7 you caint see 6th day creation of Man and Woman 1st earth age with Spirit Bodys , and you caint see 2nd earth age with Flesh Body's,,, Really, So if the words "Man became a living soul" dont make you wonder, Go with Romans 11:8
#1 you say you caint understand Spirit Bodys "really" I lose you with that simple teaching in our Father's Letter. Please say it aint so.
we have two bodie's a Spirit Body we where created with thats 6th day creation 1st Earth Age.
and our Flesh bodys we where given to be run thru this test age in 2nd Earth Age
Let get to some Scripture for a document of these facts.
Go with 1 Corinthians Chapter 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
Read that Great Blue Ist earth age was Spirit Bodys, 2nd earth age Flesh, 3rd earth age Spirit
and maybe this one Ecclesiastes 12:6-7
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Read this greatblue ,"dust that's flesh bodys when you die in this test age the 2nd earth age, the goden bowl be broken returns to the earth. now read this: and the SPIRIT BODY,that created on the sixth day 1st earth age, SHALL RETURN ONTO OUR Father that Gave it.
Quote: is entirely illogical and contradictory to the word of God, Really? and your Theaching our Fathes Children other wise, and telling them what I'm teaching is is entirely illogical and contradictory to the word of God'
Oh My Please for give me great Blue ,, but what about John 3
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
I could do more Scripture's But I've done enuff to rebuke your words about my teaching
I stand behind what I'm teaching. Dont bash me, bash your self, I have understanding
3-Earth Age's
We have to be concern about False Teaching,/ But Really great blue
"Ibe"
"Ibe A Disciple Of Jesus Christ"
"Ibe In His Service"
greatblue, I really need to adress this with you as this is a Bible Discussion Form,and as you have quoted being a Teacher I'm concern for your lack of understanding, I'm sure I dont have the education you do, but you seem to me to very over Qualified . I'm sure you will agree Judgment begin's at the House of the Lord, Do you uderstand what that means "I hope SO"
Gen2 :1-7 you caint see 6th day creation of Man and Woman 1st earth age with Spirit Bodys , and you caint see 2nd earth age with Flesh Body's,,, Really, So if the words "Man became a living soul" dont make you wonder, Go with Romans 11:8
#1 you say you caint understand Spirit Bodys "really" I lose you with that simple teaching in our Father's Letter. Please say it aint so.
we have two bodie's a Spirit Body we where created with thats 6th day creation 1st Earth Age.
and our Flesh bodys we where given to be run thru this test age in 2nd Earth Age
Let get to some Scripture for a document of these facts.
Go with 1 Corinthians Chapter 15
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
Read that Great Blue Ist earth age was Spirit Bodys, 2nd earth age Flesh, 3rd earth age Spirit
and maybe this one Ecclesiastes 12:6-7
6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Read this greatblue ,"dust that's flesh bodys when you die in this test age the 2nd earth age, the goden bowl be broken returns to the earth. now read this: and the SPIRIT BODY,that created on the sixth day 1st earth age, SHALL RETURN ONTO OUR Father that Gave it.
Quote: is entirely illogical and contradictory to the word of God, Really? and your Theaching our Fathes Children other wise, and telling them what I'm teaching is is entirely illogical and contradictory to the word of God'
Oh My Please for give me great Blue ,, but what about John 3
1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
I could do more Scripture's But I've done enuff to rebuke your words about my teaching
I stand behind what I'm teaching. Dont bash me, bash your self, I have understanding
3-Earth Age's
We have to be concern about False Teaching,/ But Really great blue
"Ibe"
"Ibe A Disciple Of Jesus Christ"
"Ibe In His Service"
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G
The Lord bless you. You certainly do not need to be concerned for my understanding as I am concerned for that enough! Now I do see you continuing to type, and incoherently so, statements that you follow with questions demanding agreement. As a teacher, I can tell you that basic grammar and overall articulation are absent from your posts...and well, you lose me when you couple that with an overloading bombardment of your "points". For example, the word "forum" is right at the top of every screen as "Christian Chat Forums", yet you've typed "Discussion Form". Now, I don't mean to offend, and perhaps English isn't even your language, or you're using assistive voice tech, in which I apologize. But, in a type/text world of message boards, sound grammar and clearly articulated thoughts are critical for discussion. For someone such as myself, witnessing an individual not correctly type/spell "forum" when it is right in front of him or her automatically demonstrates a lack of awareness of language. If you're trying to convince or ague a scriptural point (which is literature), you must ensure that your understanding of writing literature (an in that I simply mean written expression) is well developed, but succinct. Anyway...I'll leave that with you.
There is not one iota of "Earth age" explicitly stated in Genesis1 or 2. Therefore, I am not willing to step out and say, "Yes, there was a 1st Earth age." Why would I want to do that? Wouldn't that bring more questions, such as "How long is a 'day'/or what is the correct translation of 'yom'?" If anything, "yom" can mean age, but that then indicates that there were six of them prior to God's resting at the seventh. And then of course, how many human years do we assign to "age". I do take God's word literally, while acknowledging there are many mysteries and parables I may not understand. But, as a leaf blown through time for a glimpse of light, I care only about concrete, literal expressions from God. If there is more to the story of when/how God created "existence", I'd believe it because He's God. However, as a learned man, I am clearly well below an ant when it comes to the ways of my God. That said, I have no interest in the line of thinking, "Does it really say that?" --as that clearly bore the incorrect fruit in Eden.
Ibe, you use language and hold beliefs that are not explicit in God's word. You have already said of races before Adam, "This is just what I believe." while admitting that there is nothing stated in scripture to that point. And, you can say, "God showed me." And I am the "Whoa. Danger." type of person when I hear people say that. As a higher-order thinker made in the image of God, yet as minuscule as an ant when it comes to understanding existence, I'll take my communication from God's word communicated through man's language.
Anyway...I'm a sinner. Praise be to Jesus Christ who saves me despite myself.
There is not one iota of "Earth age" explicitly stated in Genesis1 or 2. Therefore, I am not willing to step out and say, "Yes, there was a 1st Earth age." Why would I want to do that? Wouldn't that bring more questions, such as "How long is a 'day'/or what is the correct translation of 'yom'?" If anything, "yom" can mean age, but that then indicates that there were six of them prior to God's resting at the seventh. And then of course, how many human years do we assign to "age". I do take God's word literally, while acknowledging there are many mysteries and parables I may not understand. But, as a leaf blown through time for a glimpse of light, I care only about concrete, literal expressions from God. If there is more to the story of when/how God created "existence", I'd believe it because He's God. However, as a learned man, I am clearly well below an ant when it comes to the ways of my God. That said, I have no interest in the line of thinking, "Does it really say that?" --as that clearly bore the incorrect fruit in Eden.
Ibe, you use language and hold beliefs that are not explicit in God's word. You have already said of races before Adam, "This is just what I believe." while admitting that there is nothing stated in scripture to that point. And, you can say, "God showed me." And I am the "Whoa. Danger." type of person when I hear people say that. As a higher-order thinker made in the image of God, yet as minuscule as an ant when it comes to understanding existence, I'll take my communication from God's word communicated through man's language.
Anyway...I'm a sinner. Praise be to Jesus Christ who saves me despite myself.
Amen sorry for my lack of education and proper basic grammar and overall articulation
How about this: 6 comes befor 7
and most of my post to you was the written word, did you have a problim understanding that as well?
You are a Child of God
Our Father Love's you
I've said all I need to here
Take heed
"Ibe"
"Ibe a Disciple Of Jesus Christ"
"Ibe In His Service"
How about this: 6 comes befor 7
and most of my post to you was the written word, did you have a problim understanding that as well?
You are a Child of God
Our Father Love's you
I've said all I need to here
Take heed
"Ibe"
"Ibe a Disciple Of Jesus Christ"
"Ibe In His Service"
G
Ibe,
In my last post I signed off as "a sinner" because that is what I am. As lowly as they come my friend, though I'm not always so ready to admit it. On a message board such as this, we represent ourselves through our written words, and that can very much take some of the best parts of ourselves out of human interaction. I truly apologize for offending you.
In my last post I signed off as "a sinner" because that is what I am. As lowly as they come my friend, though I'm not always so ready to admit it. On a message board such as this, we represent ourselves through our written words, and that can very much take some of the best parts of ourselves out of human interaction. I truly apologize for offending you.