None Good...No Not One!

[posthuman]

Soooo.... you are also saying that nobody presently has any understanding and that nobody seeks after God, too? See Romans 3:11.

how is it that anyone can understand, or that any of us seek God?

As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
(1 John 2:27)

God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."
(Galatians 4:6)​

these are things i attribute to God living in me, not to myself.

 

[je1979]

My problem was you used the key phrase, "If we continue in sin" My response was to that.

That claims we can somehow lose salvation if we continue in sin, which is not true. We can not lose it, for if it can be lost it must be earned. (remember pauls warning about not being a FOOL and try to perfect your salvation in the flesh)

and I disagree about your interpretation of John also. He did not say only if you abide, he said plainly a child of God can not sin (the language would be continued active or living in) because they are born of God. Remember, he said those who sin (again the language is continued active or living in ) has NEVER SEEN God, nor have they EVER KNOWN God. These people were never saved, you can not lose something you have never had.

Hope this clarifies what I was trying to say, sorry if I was not more clear.

Hey eternally, here are some verses that speak of those who had the truth/were called righteous by God, but returned to sin and what awaits them if they don't return to righteousness again. I gave a mix of OT and NT.

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
James 5:19-20 - If the believer does not turn again from his sin, he will die.
Galatians. 5:7 - Why would Paul even be concerned about turning to sin if we're still going to make it?
Ezekiel 18:24 - You don't want God to forget all of your righteousness due to continued sin, no matter how far and spaced out it may be.

 

[Jason0047]

how is it that anyone can understand, or that any of us seek God?

As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit--just as it has taught you, remain in him.
(1 John 2:27)

God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father."
(Galatians 4:6)​

these are things i attribute to God living in me, not to myself.

Yes. Very good. The same applies to one walking uprightly with God, too. It is a part of a believer's Sanctification process. God works within them. However, if they rebel against God and do their own thing, they are serving another god and not the true God.

 

[psychomom]

A part of obeying the doctrine (Gospel) that is given to us involves being a slave or a servant to righteousness.

For the Scriptures say,

"God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin, but you have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, you became the servants of righteousness."

For in our old life, we were servants to sin. But sin shall not have dominion over us. For Jesus Christ was manifested to destroy the works of the devil in a believer's life.

i think you're conflating Law and Gospel.

the Gospel is God's unconditional declaration that HE justifies the ungodly.
Christ was crucified for our sins and raised for our justification.

the Law tells us how to do God's will, certainly.
but don't confuse the two, else you may become a legalist.

 

[posthuman]

EDIT:

whoops, double-posted

 

[posthuman]

Yes. Very good. The same applies to one walking uprightly with God, too. It is a part of a believer's Sanctification process. God works within them. However, if they rebel against God and do their own thing, they are serving another god and not the true God.

so the same reason that "no one is righteous" except God is true,
is the same reason that "no one is good" and "no one understands" and "no one seeks God" is true, and present-tense.

our life is not our own. Romans 3:10-11 has not become a lie; the only way we should think so is if we attribute the Spirit's work in us to ourselves.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey eternally, here are some verses that speak of those who had the truth/were called righteous by God, but returned to sin and what awaits them if they don't return to righteousness again. I gave a mix of OT and NT.

Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
James 5:19-20 - If the believer does not turn again from his sin, he will die.
Galatians. 5:7 - Why would Paul even be concerned about turning to sin if we're still going to make it?
Ezekiel 18:24 - You don't want God to forget all of your righteousness due to continued sin, no matter how far and spaced out it may be.

so your saying we earn salvation by not returning to sin?

See what I mean, the works gospel shines through..

I think you need to look at the context of those passages, and you will see losing salvation is not the context of either of them.

one must remember,

take 2 people in a 24 hour period.

1 person committed a few small sins, one committed alot of small sins.

God says both are worthy of condemnation, and apart from the blood of Christ, both will die.

As james said, break the LEAST of the commands, your guilty of the whole law (and under a curse)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

i think you're conflating Law and Gospel.

the Gospel is God's unconditional declaration that HE justifies the ungodly.
Christ was crucified for our sins and raised for our justification.

the Law tells us how to do God's will, certainly.
but don't confuse the two, else you may become a legalist.

the law also says we must be perfect (from birth) to save ourself. anything short brings a curse because we fall short of the glory of God, which romans 3 says we all have done,

If the death of Christ (hum becoming a curse for us in our place) does not save us completely. nothing will.

why? Again, all have sinned and fall short.

 

[psychomom]

the law also says we must be perfect (from birth) to save ourself. anything short brings a curse because we fall short of the glory of God, which romans 3 says we all have done,

If the death of Christ (hum becoming a curse for us in our place) does not save us completely. nothing will.

why? Again, all have sinned and fall short.

there's total depravity getting us again

 

[eternally-gratefull]

there's total depravity getting us again

yep. we are so depraved we can not save ourself. God must save us

 

[gb9]

so your saying we earn salvation by not returning to sin?

See what I mean, the works gospel shines through..

I think you need to look at the context of those passages, and you will see losing salvation is not the context of either of them.

one must remember,

take 2 people in a 24 hour period.

1 person committed a few small sins, one committed alot of small sins.

God says both are worthy of condemnation, and apart from the blood of Christ, both will die.

As james said, break the LEAST of the commands, your guilty of the whole law (and under a curse)

if I could, e.g. , let me add this: perfect as they define it as having no flaws or blemishes does not have a sliding scale. so when they say or imply I am perfect BUT or I do not sin BUT they just disqualified themselves from their own statement. there are no in-betweens in perfection. this is why we need a perfect Savior.

 

[je1979]

so your saying we earn salvation by not returning to sin?

See what I mean, the works gospel shines through..

I think you need to look at the context of those passages, and you will see losing salvation is not the context of either of them.

one must remember,

take 2 people in a 24 hour period.

1 person committed a few small sins, one committed alot of small sins.

God says both are worthy of condemnation, and apart from the blood of Christ, both will die.

As james said, break the LEAST of the commands, your guilty of the whole law (and under a curse)

Hey eternally,
I think I see what's causing the blockage. Sometimes we can hold on to what we think with such a grip that an exchange of proper information isn't being received. In this case, the whole earning salvation concept is the problem. It's not about earning, it's about obeying. For example, you didn't make the business put out the "for hire" sign. You didn't make the business accept your resume or hire you. So you can't take credit for those things, but you did have something to do with deciding to apply for the job and deciding that you will work once you get the job. Only God created salvation and opened up the chance to "apply" for it. Matter of fact, the one thing we could try to take a little credit for is deciding to receive salvation, but even that was influenced by God. So that goes back to Him. But that still doesn't negate that once He made it possible for you to see the truth and choose life (Deu. 30:19), you ultimately made the decision. Yes, God made it possible that you could and that there was even a decision that could be made, but you actually made the decision. That's what we are being rewarded on whether good or bad (Eccl. 12:14). Rewarding is the right word, not earning. He is either rewarding me for following His lead (life) or He is rewarding me for following my lead (death). The entire bible and the life of Jesus is based on this. This is what Ezekiel 18:21-24 say. If God were to decide our fates based on what He did, He would become blameable. Salvation is not about earning. Salvation is about did you obey Him with the resources that He gave you or did you disobey Him even though His resources were available. This is why God takes disobedience so "hard and personal". He made every provision, but you still chose a lifestyle that ended in death. Why will you die when you could have lived (Ezekiel 18:31; Ezekiel 33:11)? But who ultimately makes the decision as to whether you live or die? You do. How does one decide to die? By sinning. How does one decide to live? By obeying God. Either choice is by God's grace and mercy, but it's still a choice that YOU make. It's about rewarding, not earning. I hope this helps.

 

[Jason0047]

so the same reason that "no one is righteous" except God is true,
is the same reason that "no one is good" and "no one understands" and "no one seeks God" is true, and present-tense.

our life is not our own. Romans 3:10-11 has not become a lie; the only way we should think so is if we attribute the Spirit's work in us to ourselves.

So there are people that can understand? That means there are people that are righteous then, too. No?

 

[DiscipleDave]

Those who believe OSAS, believe a lie?
That's an insult.

It would only be an insult if the statement is NOT True, But if the Statement is True, and many Scriptures confirms it to be TRUE, then it is not an insult but a TRUTH.

Alright Dave, cool.
To each his own.

True, everyone has free will to choose to believe the Truth or reject it.

I don't have the energy to debate those who think the Holy Spirit is given and taken away from us. As if God teases us.

And yet Scriptures plainly gives us an example of Him doing just that, ACTS 5. And is it not written the Holy Ghost is given to them that obey Him? yes it is. You see i do not believe the HOLY Spirit is given and taken away. i believe the Scriptures which plainly teach the Holy Ghost is given to those who OBEY JESUS. Therefore many who are SAVED, believing all the false doctrines of today DO NOT HAVE THE HOLY GHOST.

The Bible is Clear on what the gifts of the HOLY GHOST are, Do you see the thousands of Christians exhibiting any of these gifts of the Holy Ghost? Why is that? Maybe because they do NOT OBEY JESUS, and never have, and therefore DO NOT HAVE THE HOLY GHOST, even though they claim to be Christians. Isn't it written:

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Seems to me, if every Christian indeed had the HOLY GHOST living in them, then why are these things not being seen all over the place. Why are so many NOT recovering? Maybe all those who claim to be Christian don't have the HOLY Ghost in them, because :

Act_5:32 And we are His witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.

Who gets the the HOLY GHOST according to this verse? Those who OBEY Him.

The Holy Ghost is not stupid, it knows the hearts of those who DESIRE to OBEY HIM, She does not enter into those who continue to live in sins. And if the Holy Spirit does enter into someone because they at the first do OBEY HIM, but then choose to disobey Him on a regular basis, which grieves the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in that person, The Spirit will only take so much of it. And when that person has a reprobate mind, it will depart or remain dormant in such an one.

....or just don't have the guts to say that those who believe OSAS, never had the Holy Spirit in the first place.

if i were to say such a thing, i would be lying, and no liar shall enter into Heaven. i have the Holy Spirit of God living in me, and there was a time that i believed OSAS full heartedly, but it was the Spirit of Truth living in me, that every time i read a verse that was contrary to that belief, the Spirit of Truth would convict me of it. Like when i read a person can be blotted out of the Book of LIFE, WHAT!!!!!! How????? i mean if i am saved and written in the Book of Life, why is there a verse that says a persons name can be removed. The Spirit of Truth, would tell me to search the Scriptures, so i would search the Scriptures on any reference to the Book of life, and surprisingly there are MANY verses which talk about being removed from it, wow, lets just ignore that verse for a while and i continued to believe OSAS then i came across another verse, then another, then another, and yet many others verses, something is wrong with OSAS when that belief contradicts MANY, and i say Many verses in the Scriptures, i found myself ignoring, or making void, or interpreting away ALL those Many verse to hold on to the belief of OSAS, until one day i realized what i was doing, i was changing the Scriptures to fit my belief, instead of letting the Scriptures change my belief. i had to give up the belief of OSAS because of a TRUTH it does NOT line up with Scriptures, really not at all. But YES a person can believe OSAS and have the HOLY GHOST, matters of fact, Those who believe OSAS and don't have the help of the HOLY Ghost will never come to the Truth concerning OSAS. How easy would it be to get to HEAVEN believing in OSAS? Super Easy. i know, i believed it 100% back when i was an adolescent. But after reading the entire Bible more then 80 times in my life, i have found the narrow and difficult road that only a very few will find, But here is the Great News, i am telling all that will listen where to find that path.

I hate circular arguments.

i hear ya, i am not fond of them either, however because i Love Everyone, i will try to help those who continue to have circular arguments with me.

Sorry, brother.

Sorry for what? i do not recall you saying anything to me to offend me in any way.

^i^ Responding to Post # 941

 

[DiscipleDave]

There are some really dense people on this site......WHATSOEVER GOD DOES IT IS ETERNAL<---------this is applicable to EVERYTHING that GOD DOES and includes SAVING SOMEONE, SEALING SOMEONE, SANCTIFYING SOMEONE and JUSTIFYING SOMEONE.....to say one can lose salvation or have the SPIRIT yanked REJECTS the simple PRINCIPLE found in the bolded!

This is what OSAS believers tell themselves. i am not saying that to upset anyone who believes OSAS, only telling the Truth. Scriptures proves what you say above CAN'T be the Truth, and all you have to do is answer one question i present to you.

The Bible plainly teaches that a person can be blotted out of the Book of Life, is that TRUE or FALSE?

You can't answer, because if you answer TRUE, then you have to admit that that person WAS (Past Tense) written in the Book and is NOW no longer there. If you answer FALSE, then you admit you do not believe the Bible and what it plainly teaches.

Scriptural Referrences where a person can be blotted out, or removed from the Book.

Rev 3:5
Rev 22:19
Exodus 32:32-33
Psalms 69:28
Duet 29:20
Isaiah 43:25
Isaiah 44:22

One verse should be enough to believe the Truth, but God must have known this false doctrine of OSAS was going to be wide spread and believed, therefore gave several verses which plainly teach a person can be removed, or blotted out, ONCE they are written there.

Answer me this, If a person is SAVED, yet continues to fornicate, are they SAVED or are they are fornicator? Know you not that no fornicator will enter into Heaven?
Tell me if a person is SAVED as you are but you do not forgive someone when they did you wrong, say they raped you, and you do not forgive them, are you still SAVED, when it is plainly written that if you do not forgive men their tresspasses neither will the Father forgive you of yours. So how can a person be SAVED and NOT forgiven at the same time?
Tell me if a person is SAVED, but the hate someone, can they still go to Heaven, when it is written those that hate will not enter into Heaven. How can they be SAVED and a HATER
Tell me if a person claims to be SAVED yet they continue to lie, are they still Heaven bound even though they are a liar? Know you not that Scriptures plainly teach ALL (SAVED and UNSAVED PEOPLE of the world) ALL LIARS shall burn in the lake of fire and brimstone Rev 21:8
Those who believe OSAS can't possibly believe the Word of God too? i know, i use to believe OSAS and the simple Truth is, SCRIPTURES does not support it.

Do you know what is interesting and should be educational to see. In messages on boards, not just this one, whenever the topic is OSAS, have you ever noticed, the OSAS hardly ever use SCRIPTURES in their responses (posts) All the while those who try to teach the Truth to those who believe OSAS use Scriptures over and over and over again, notice it the next time and see if it is not TRUE. Do you know why it is TRUE, because there are NO SCRIPTURES which support OSAS, now there are Scriptures that people use by interpreting those verses to mean OSAS. That, is True, but interpretation belong to God NOT to men. Men's interpretation leads to false teachings, false doctrines, and easy Christianity.

includes SAVING SOMEONE, SEALING SOMEONE, SANCTIFYING SOMEONE and JUSTIFYING SOMEONE.....to say one can lose salvation or have the SPIRIT yanked REJECTS the simple PRINCIPLE found in the bolded!

i am sealed right now by God, Scriptures teach me that, but does it teach if i am sealed, i am forever sealed? No it does not, does it teach because i am sealed, i can't unseal myself, choose to fall away from God? No it does not.
i am sanctified because what Jesus has done for me, and is still doing for me. Does that mean i can't possibly reject it? Does that mean i can't choose to live in darkness and live in sin, live in filthiness? No it does not mean that at all. Sure i am sanctified, and Jesus works on me all the time, but if i choose to watch child porn, or choose to rape someone, or choose to have unmarried sexual relations, or choose to do illegal drugs, am i still being sanctified?

Yes i was justified by Jesus Christ, i accepted Him and repented of my sins, and He took stripes and was beaten to pay for the sins that i did in the past, then He went to the cross and was my sacrifice for me, my lamb to have my sins forgiven to me. At that moment i was forgiven, i was perfect, i was white as snow, i was forgiven, i was clean, i was justified. But when i chose to continue to live in the very things that Jesus had to die for, i was no longer justified, UNTIL i truly repented. and to Truly repent you cease to do the very thing you are repenting of. How sorry is a person if they repent of the same sin over and over and over again, NOT that sorry are they? If there were Truly Sorry they would cease to do it again.
So then Scriptures plainly teach i am SEALED, SANCTIFIED, and JUSTIFIED. This is True, But what is NOT TRUE is that i am forever in these things. Scriptures does NOT teach that.

It is the interpretations of men that teach these lies. For example they teach being sealed means you can't ever become unsealed. Is that True though, can something that is sealed become unsealed? YES, YES, and YES. i can seal a bottle, and then unseal as well. We are sealed this is True, men interpret that to mean, we can't possibly become UNSEALED if we are SEALED. They do error and do not know the Truth. Just because something is sealed does not mean it can't possibly become unsealed. Can a sealed envelope become unsealed? Name me anything (aside from what you think of Salvation) that is sealed and CAN'T be unsealed, Anything? So then anything that is sealed, can be unsealed. yet we interpret the verse about us being sealed as something that can't be possibly unsealed, yet everything that can be sealed, can be unsealed. Interpretations belong to God NOT TO MEN. Yes i am sealed, Yes if i die right now i have eternal life, Yes i am sanctified, Yes i am justified, Yes i am right now SAVED and am sealed, and have Eternal Life. Does that mean i can't possibly turn away from God in the Future? Are you serious? Do you think you are SAVED right now? Yes or No. Are you that say Yes you are SAVED, are you seriously trying to tell me, there is no possible way whatsoever that you can turn away from God and walk away from Him forever, NO possible way? >>> WARNING <<< Be careful how you answer this question, God just may test you on it, if you say

there is NO possible chance you will ever walk away from Him

, He may just decide to test you on that and see.

Strange thing to believe though, that if you are SAVED, there is no possible way whatsoever that you will ever walk away from God, i guess you have no free will choice at all in that matter. If you accept Christ as your Savior and Lord, you can never walk away from Him, you can never reject Him, you can never leave His service, no matter what you do, you can't become UNSAVED, it is not possible, do you know why it is not possible, because Once Saved, you are Always Saved. So then Become Saved today, live however you want, you can't mess it up, you are sealed forever, and that seal can't be broken, though the Scriptures does not teach that, let us believe that once SEALED ALWAYS SEALED and can't ever be unsealed. Does anyone else see how illogical this is?

i am telling you the Truth, all of you who believe OSAS better start searching the Scriptures for the Truth, because i, a man chosen by God to teach His Truths, has told you the Truth that OSAS is a false doctrine. Do not believe me, search the Scriptures and believe them, they teach it is a lie also. But how likely is it for one in this generation to give up the belief of OSAS, That would be like throwing away your Salvation, i know i had to do it to. But tell me which is better
A person who believes OSAS only to be left behind when Jesus Comes
or
A person who gives up the false ideal that they can't lose their Salvation, and then works on their own Salvation with fear and trembling, running the race as to win it, and maintains it daily by enduring to the end, holding on to it like it is their life support, and then go to Heaven for all Eternity?

How easy is it to choose the first. How many billions of Christians choose the first? How many go through the broad and easy path that leads to destruction? Many. How many find that narrow and difficult road that leads to everlasting life? FEW. How many Christians believe OSAS? Many. How many teach against that false doctrine? FEW

i am not telling you all this to upset you, do you really think i am saying all this, and putting all this effort in these post to try to upset you? i love you, and i am telling you the Truth. OSAS is a lie. What if an Angel of God told you that OSAS is false would you believe then? No you would not, because you would say, demons can appear as Angels. What if Jesus Himself came down and told you that OSAS is false would you then believe? i don't think so, you would say that can't be Jesus He is in Heaven working on our behalf. What if a God chose someone to teach people against the false doctrine of OSAS would you believe him? To believe him, you would hearken to me. But who believes me? NO God Himself would not be able to get OSAS to see the errors of their ways, well maybe a few.

^i^ Responding to Post # 943

 

[dcontroversal]

This is what OSAS believers tell themselves. i am not saying that to upset anyone who believes OSAS, only telling the Truth. Scriptures proves what you say above CAN'T be the Truth, and all you have to do is answer one question i present to you.

The Bible plainly teaches that a person can be blotted out of the Book of Life, is that TRUE or FALSE?

You can't answer, because if you answer TRUE, then you have to admit that that person WAS (Past Tense) written in the Book and is NOW no longer there. If you answer FALSE, then you admit you do not believe the Bible and what it plainly teaches.

Scriptural Referrences where a person can be blotted out, or removed from the Book.

Rev 3:5
Rev 22:19
Exodus 32:32-33
Psalms 69:28
Duet 29:20
Isaiah 43:25
Isaiah 44:22

One verse should be enough to believe the Truth, but God must have known this false doctrine of OSAS was going to be wide spread and believed, therefore gave several verses which plainly teach a person can be removed, or blotted out, ONCE they are written there.

Answer me this, If a person is SAVED, yet continues to fornicate, are they SAVED or are they are fornicator? Know you not that no fornicator will enter into Heaven?
Tell me if a person is SAVED as you are but you do not forgive someone when they did you wrong, say they raped you, and you do not forgive them, are you still SAVED, when it is plainly written that if you do not forgive men their tresspasses neither will the Father forgive you of yours. So how can a person be SAVED and NOT forgiven at the same time?
Tell me if a person is SAVED, but the hate someone, can they still go to Heaven, when it is written those that hate will not enter into Heaven. How can they be SAVED and a HATER
Tell me if a person claims to be SAVED yet they continue to lie, are they still Heaven bound even though they are a liar? Know you not that Scriptures plainly teach ALL (SAVED and UNSAVED PEOPLE of the world) ALL LIARS shall burn in the lake of fire and brimstone Rev 21:8
Those who believe OSAS can't possibly believe the Word of God too? i know, i use to believe OSAS and the simple Truth is, SCRIPTURES does not support it.

Do you know what is interesting and should be educational to see. In messages on boards, not just this one, whenever the topic is OSAS, have you ever noticed, the OSAS hardly ever use SCRIPTURES in their responses (posts) All the while those who try to teach the Truth to those who believe OSAS use Scriptures over and over and over again, notice it the next time and see if it is not TRUE. Do you know why it is TRUE, because there are NO SCRIPTURES which support OSAS, now there are Scriptures that people use by interpreting those verses to mean OSAS. That, is True, but interpretation belong to God NOT to men. Men's interpretation leads to false teachings, false doctrines, and easy Christianity.



i am sealed right now by God, Scriptures teach me that, but does it teach if i am sealed, i am forever sealed? No it does not, does it teach because i am sealed, i can't unseal myself, choose to fall away from God? No it does not.
i am sanctified because what Jesus has done for me, and is still doing for me. Does that mean i can't possibly reject it? Does that mean i can't choose to live in darkness and live in sin, live in filthiness? No it does not mean that at all. Sure i am sanctified, and Jesus works on me all the time, but if i choose to watch child porn, or choose to rape someone, or choose to have unmarried sexual relations, or choose to do illegal drugs, am i still being sanctified?

Yes i was justified by Jesus Christ, i accepted Him and repented of my sins, and He took stripes and was beaten to pay for the sins that i did in the past, then He went to the cross and was my sacrifice for me, my lamb to have my sins forgiven to me. At that moment i was forgiven, i was perfect, i was white as snow, i was forgiven, i was clean, i was justified. But when i chose to continue to live in the very things that Jesus had to die for, i was no longer justified, UNTIL i truly repented. and to Truly repent you cease to do the very thing you are repenting of. How sorry is a person if they repent of the same sin over and over and over again, NOT that sorry are they? If there were Truly Sorry they would cease to do it again.
So then Scriptures plainly teach i am SEALED, SANCTIFIED, and JUSTIFIED. This is True, But what is NOT TRUE is that i am forever in these things. Scriptures does NOT teach that.

It is the interpretations of men that teach these lies. For example they teach being sealed means you can't ever become unsealed. Is that True though, can something that is sealed become unsealed? YES, YES, and YES. i can seal a bottle, and then unseal as well. We are sealed this is True, men interpret that to mean, we can't possibly become UNSEALED if we are SEALED. They do error and do not know the Truth. Just because something is sealed does not mean it can't possibly become unsealed. Can a sealed envelope become unsealed? Name me anything (aside from what you think of Salvation) that is sealed and CAN'T be unsealed, Anything? So then anything that is sealed, can be unsealed. yet we interpret the verse about us being sealed as something that can't be possibly unsealed, yet everything that can be sealed, can be unsealed. Interpretations belong to God NOT TO MEN. Yes i am sealed, Yes if i die right now i have eternal life, Yes i am sanctified, Yes i am justified, Yes i am right now SAVED and am sealed, and have Eternal Life. Does that mean i can't possibly turn away from God in the Future? Are you serious? Do you think you are SAVED right now? Yes or No. Are you that say Yes you are SAVED, are you seriously trying to tell me, there is no possible way whatsoever that you can turn away from God and walk away from Him forever, NO possible way? >>> WARNING <<< Be careful how you answer this question, God just may test you on it, if you say , He may just decide to test you on that and see.

Strange thing to believe though, that if you are SAVED, there is no possible way whatsoever that you will ever walk away from God, i guess you have no free will choice at all in that matter. If you accept Christ as your Savior and Lord, you can never walk away from Him, you can never reject Him, you can never leave His service, no matter what you do, you can't become UNSAVED, it is not possible, do you know why it is not possible, because Once Saved, you are Always Saved. So then Become Saved today, live however you want, you can't mess it up, you are sealed forever, and that seal can't be broken, though the Scriptures does not teach that, let us believe that once SEALED ALWAYS SEALED and can't ever be unsealed. Does anyone else see how illogical this is?

i am telling you the Truth, all of you who believe OSAS better start searching the Scriptures for the Truth, because i, a man chosen by God to teach His Truths, has told you the Truth that OSAS is a false doctrine. Do not believe me, search the Scriptures and believe them, they teach it is a lie also. But how likely is it for one in this generation to give up the belief of OSAS, That would be like throwing away your Salvation, i know i had to do it to. But tell me which is better
A person who believes OSAS only to be left behind when Jesus Comes
or
A person who gives up the false ideal that they can't lose their Salvation, and then works on their own Salvation with fear and trembling, running the race as to win it, and maintains it daily by enduring to the end, holding on to it like it is their life support, and then go to Heaven for all Eternity?

How easy is it to choose the first. How many billions of Christians choose the first? How many go through the broad and easy path that leads to destruction? Many. How many find that narrow and difficult road that leads to everlasting life? FEW. How many Christians believe OSAS? Many. How many teach against that false doctrine? FEW

i am not telling you all this to upset you, do you really think i am saying all this, and putting all this effort in these post to try to upset you? i love you, and i am telling you the Truth. OSAS is a lie. What if an Angel of God told you that OSAS is false would you believe then? No you would not, because you would say, demons can appear as Angels. What if Jesus Himself came down and told you that OSAS is false would you then believe? i don't think so, you would say that can't be Jesus He is in Heaven working on our behalf. What if a God chose someone to teach people against the false doctrine of OSAS would you believe him? To believe him, you would hearken to me. But who believes me? NO God Himself would not be able to get OSAS to see the errors of their ways, well maybe a few.

^i^ Responding to Post # 943

First of all you would have the following scripture read Whatsoever but salvation which is heretical...whatsoever means exactly that...whatever it is that God does....eternal means eternal not temporary.....

Originally Posted by dcontroversal

There are some really dense people on this site......WHATSOEVER GOD DOES IT IS ETERNAL<---------this is applicable to EVERYTHING that GOD DOES and includes SAVING SOMEONE, SEALING SOMEONE, SANCTIFYING SOMEONE and JUSTIFYING SOMEONE.....to say one can lose salvation or have the SPIRIT yanked REJECTS the simple PRINCIPLE found in the bolded!

Second the saved are written in from the foundation of the world and remain written.....and what is so amusing and funny about your post is within the ranks of so called Christianity and the religions that are deemed false they all have one thing in common...a works based false gospel that would have men more powerful than God with the ability to lose salvation....nothing but foolishness....

Sealed by the Spirit of PROMISE
WILL LOSE NOTHING
WILL COMPLETE THAT WHICH HAS BEEN STARTED
SAVED TO THE UTTERMOST
NEVER LEAVE NOR FORSAKE

Maybe you serve a weak god that is not in the bible.....mine can do exactly what he states and that is eternally save, seal, forgive, justify, sanctify, keep and NOT LOSE one......sorry your god is weak and a liar who cant keep his word...mine keeps his word and he saves to the uttermost ALL who genuinely trust into him....

 

[DiscipleDave]

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, (you that continue to live in sin) ye that work iniquity.

This very passage speaks to you and mr Dave here.

All your works you will be crying out to God why he should save you. Yet Jesus will say to you to depart. for he NEVER KNEW YOU{

Who does He tell to depart from Him?

Those who continue to live in sin. What does the Bible call those who can't cease from sin? Cursed Children.Tell me, Do you think you can cease from sin, or are you one of those who can't cease from sin?

I just love how you people use this verse to decry OSAS, when this very passage SUPPORTS OSAS.

i hope your joking here. Here is a question for you, but i think not likely you will answer it. Those in the above parable who call the Jesus "LORD" and prophesied in Jesus Name, and in the name of Jesus cast out demons, which by the way is one of the signs that shall follow them that believe in Jesus, and they did many wonderful works such as miracle and the such, can you tell me if these that done all these things in the name of Jesus THOUGHT they were SAVED? Answer if you will.

i assure you they thought they were SAVED, They prophesied in Jesus Name, have we prophesied in Jesus Name? They cast out demons in the name of Jesus, Have we cast out demons in the name of Jesus. They also did many not just a few, but many wonderful works, Have we done wonderful works? These who have done more than we have in the name of Jesus Christ are REJECTED by Christ Himself, and why are they rejected? Because they chose to continue to live in sin. i assure you these THOUGHT they were SAVED and Heaven bound, i mean the very questions they ask Jesus tells you they were baffled as to the reason why they were rejected. "Have we not ... Have we not .... Have we not ......" They THOUGHT they were Heaven bound, and yet they were rejected by Christ and rejected because of their sinning.
What is so ironic to me though, is these above in that parable do more in the name of Jesus than Christians of this generation do for Jesus, and they were rejected. YET this generation who don't even do what they who were rejected had done, claim they are still going to Heaven.

Jesus is not going to tell someone who was saved, born of his spirit, adopted as his son, then kicked out of his family, he never knew them, for he would be lying. and he himself would be in sin.

Not to make you upset, that is not my intention, but you really need to read the Word of God more. Read about those who are grafted into Jesus, only to be removed and burned. Or the Scriptures that teach those who are grafted into the good olive tree should be careful else they may be removed (FROM HIM) like the Israelites were removed. You know the branches being grafted in. This is the one of MANY verses which came to the top of my head there are many others.

lol, You only say Jesus would be lying because you are thinking about the Belief OSAS. i mean if OSAS is True, then Jesus kicks someone out of His family then He would be lying right? Right, IF OSAS is True. But as i continually say OSAS is not TRUE. JESUS does not teach that, Jesus teaches that we are grafted into the good tree (HIM) and He also say we can be removed from it, You really need to study the Word of God, Even the parable about being grafted into the Good Tree proves OSAS is false. We get SAVED we are in the Good olive Tree, We are in Jesus, but Jesus said the branches can be removed, and so it is True, what once was a part of the Good Tree (Jesus) can be removed from that Good Tree, as Scriptures plainly teach.

He is talking to you people who are trying to earn your way by sacraments, or works, or religious good deeds, or whatever means your trying to earn Gods gift.
He says they practice sin because the very work they do to earn salvation, which may look religious and seem right, is sin, because it is done to gain something God said can never be earned.

Oh now i see, your interpretation of that verse, which means nothing about what the verse actually says, but your interpretation of that verse supports your OSAS belief. i get it now, and even how you are seeing it, the problem is, your interpretation is in error. Read the passages again, they were NOT denied by Christ because of what the good works that they did, they were denied by Christ because of their sins, NOT the good works they did. What do you think it is sinful to cast out demons? IS that not one of the signs that follows those that believe? Yes it is, so that is a Good work they did, that is not sinful. The wonderful works they did was not sinful either, they are good works, they prophesied in His Name, is that evil? NO that also is a good work, yet they who have done all these good things, were still rejected by Christ, they were not rejected by Christ because of the good works like you are indicating, they were plainly rejected by Christ because of their sinning. True they were bewildered as to the reason why they were rejected when they did so many good things in the name of Jesus Christ, they even called Jesus "Lord" is it not written in the Word of God That no person can call Jesus "Lord" except by the Holy Ghost? Yes, that is written. So these who called Jesus "LORD" and also had many good works they did in the name of Jesus Christ were still rejected by Him, Now you say He rejected them because of their good works. . .. sigh....
But the Jesus is clear why these people who claimed to be Christians were rejected, CLEAR. Because of their sinning, NOT as you say, not because of their many good works, not because they were boasting of their good works, not because they thought works saved them. Jesus Christ plainly told us why these Christians were rejected, because they lived in sin.

Then again, Your not allowed interpreting scripture, your church forbids it. so again why are you in a bible forum?

Who is telling you these lies? and worse why are you believing them? The Church i belong to is not a building, is not a denomination, i belong to the Church that is going to be Raptured, that is the Church where every member of that Church LOVES ONE ANOTHER. And if you knew the Scriptures, you would understand that it is not a Church that has told me i am not allowed to interpret, but it is the Word of God itself that teaches interpretations belong to God, word for word. Therefore if interpretation belong to God, then men should not do so, yes? The Word of God teaches that.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

TELL me, is this verse TRUE or FALSE? According to this verse, Holy Inspired Verse, Who gets to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven? Answer is: Those who do the will of the Father in Heaven. TELL, me is it the Fathers will in Heaven that we LOVE ONE ANOTHER? Yes or No? Is it the Fathers Will that we obey His Son Jesus Christ?
Now answer me this, if you are SAVED, and do NOT do the Fathers will, are you still going to Heaven, making this verse void and null if you say "Yes". Let the Word of God be True and what people teach lies and falseness.

So go ahead and believe OSAS and do not do the will of the Father in Heaven and see if His Word holds True or if your belief will hold true.

Let me ask you another question that is like the others and is not likely to be answered by those who believe OSAS. If the Bible says and teaches that only those who do the Fathers will enter into Heaven, Does that mean when a person gets SAVED, and they are sanctified, they are sealed, they are justified, that it is impossible for that person NOT to do the will of the Father in everything they choose to do? i only ask that because is OSAS is True, then Once i am saved, everything i do is the will of the Father, because i can't possibly not go to Heaven, i am sealed, i am sanctified. Therefore everything i do no matter how evil it is or even how good it is, doesn't matter i am doing the Fathers will therefore will enter into Heaven. God Forbid. If the Word of God teaches only those who do the Fathers will will enter into Heaven, i assure you with no doubts whatsoever that ONLY those who do the Fathers will are going to make into Heaven, and it does not matter what you say with your mouth, or what you believe is the Truth. ONLY those who do the Father will, will be accepted into Heaven, and this is His Will, don't believe me, believe the Word of God.

1Jn 3:23 And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and LOVE ONE ANOTHER, as He gave us commandment.

Anyone who claims to be SAVED, and does NOT Love One Another, is NOT doing the Fathers will and will not enter into Heaven, no matter how sealed you think you are, or how sanctified you think you are. Scriptures are True, and what people teach are false doctrines.

^i^ Responding to Post # 944

 

[posthuman]

So there are people that can understand? That means there are people that are righteous then, too. No?

there is One that has understanding, and One who is righteous, and some are in Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if I could, e.g. , let me add this: perfect as they define it as having no flaws or blemishes does not have a sliding scale. so when they say or imply I am perfect BUT or I do not sin BUT they just disqualified themselves from their own statement. there are no in-betweens in perfection. this is why we need a perfect Savior.

That is why the law will never go away until all is fulfilled. They shove the law aside like it is some warning sign that says do not go this way, yet they do not heed the warning.

The law condemns us every minute of every day unless we are freed from the law by the blood of Christ. Apart from the blood washingn us white as snow (as God promised) we have no hope. All their so called repenting, confessing, and "being good" will not help them one iota!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hey eternally,
I think I see what's causing the blockage. Sometimes we can hold on to what we think with such a grip that an exchange of proper information isn't being received. In this case, the whole earning salvation concept is the problem. It's not about earning, it's about obeying. For example, you didn't make the business put out the "for hire" sign. You didn't make the business accept your resume or hire you. So you can't take credit for those things, but you did have something to do with deciding to apply for the job and deciding that you will work once you get the job. Only God created salvation and opened up the chance to "apply" for it. Matter of fact, the one thing we could try to take a little credit for is deciding to receive salvation, but even that was influenced by God. So that goes back to Him. But that still doesn't negate that once He made it possible for you to see the truth and choose life (Deu. 30:19), you ultimately made the decision. Yes, God made it possible that you could and that there was even a decision that could be made, but you actually made the decision. That's what we are being rewarded on whether good or bad (Eccl. 12:14). Rewarding is the right word, not earning. He is either rewarding me for following His lead (life) or He is rewarding me for following my lead (death). The entire bible and the life of Jesus is based on this. This is what Ezekiel 18:21-24 say. If God were to decide our fates based on what He did, He would become blameable. Salvation is not about earning. Salvation is about did you obey Him with the resources that He gave you or did you disobey Him even though His resources were available. This is why God takes disobedience so "hard and personal". He made every provision, but you still chose a lifestyle that ended in death. Why will you die when you could have lived (Ezekiel 18:31; Ezekiel 33:11)? But who ultimately makes the decision as to whether you live or die? You do. How does one decide to die? By sinning. How does one decide to live? By obeying God. Either choice is by God's grace and mercy, but it's still a choice that YOU make. It's about rewarding, not earning. I hope this helps.

I still see way to much I in here. A job application is a bad example. God calls us children. adopted into his family, paid for by the blood of Christ.

God adopts us, we did not adopt him, God paid for our eternal lives, not us, When we enter his family, then we are given tools to work. if we work we are rewarded, if we do not, we are chastened, just like a parent chastens a child. But unlike in your example (where a worker can get fired, his reward death) a child of the father will always be part of the family. He may not get all the rewards the father has to offer in life, but he is always the fathers child.
Romans 4
4 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.


Salvation is by grace, Paul shows us here, if we try to work to earn it (like your suggesting) then it is not counted as grace, but debt, ie, your stuck to try to pay your own debt, and you will fail. That is why we must be saved by faith, not work. You can work from now until you die and you will still be unable to work of the debt you owe God.