Once Saved, Always Saved ... OR Can you Lose your Salvation?
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A
I don't correct people who tell me they can lose their salvation because of two reasons.
1. They may be right.
If the type of salvation they have or believe they have is based upon their works and ability to keep it, then yes they may lose it. Hopefully they will mail it to the cross with the Law and legalistic theology and hear the true Gospel of grace.
2. They may be just begining their journey with God and need the fear of Him to kick them into allowing their sins to die. Fear can motivate people to change. Hopefully they will learn how doing God's will should be done out of love and not fear. However, like the Law it is good if use lawfully. Fear of punishment may keep some people from horrendous crimes against others and themselves.
In the beginning of my journey, I believed I could lose my salvation but God since has taught me His love is greater than my sins and ability to make a mess. All God asks is for our trust and to take one right and faithful step at a time.
1. They may be right.
If the type of salvation they have or believe they have is based upon their works and ability to keep it, then yes they may lose it. Hopefully they will mail it to the cross with the Law and legalistic theology and hear the true Gospel of grace.
2. They may be just begining their journey with God and need the fear of Him to kick them into allowing their sins to die. Fear can motivate people to change. Hopefully they will learn how doing God's will should be done out of love and not fear. However, like the Law it is good if use lawfully. Fear of punishment may keep some people from horrendous crimes against others and themselves.
In the beginning of my journey, I believed I could lose my salvation but God since has taught me His love is greater than my sins and ability to make a mess. All God asks is for our trust and to take one right and faithful step at a time.
Losing your salvation is clear cut. Rejection, Rejecting God after having tasted the goodness and the blessings,and being spirit filled. Satan did it and got no second chance, and so have a few men. Adam and Eve, King Saul and you could even say, Judas,and Ananias and his wife. Hebrews;6; 4-6 tells you about rejection and the cost.
E
I look at it this way,.
Genuine believers have faith and assurance in christ.
Religious believers (workers of the law or workers of religion) may believe IN Jesus and believe things about him, but their assurance is in their works, Not christ. Thats why believe they can fall away, because their faith is rooted on shakey ground, not solid ground, it is rooted in works, not Christ.
Even though if you ask them, they will ALWAYS claim their faith is in christ.
E
Hebrews tells us the about those who leave god and return to law/ It tells them that if they could fall away, they can never be renewed/ And teaching salvation can be lost puts christ to shame,
the law says if youy sin, a sacrifice must be given, saying you can lose salvation in this fashion, is like saying christ would have to die again (his work was not enough)
In the Titus passage has saved is an Aorist indicative, so it would be similar to our past tense. It is something that happened in the past.
In the 2 Tim. passage has saved is an Aorist active participle and since it is a participle and not indicative, it is timeless. To say the action is endless would give an attribute of time to it. A continuous action. But since it is a participle the emphasis is only on the action or event.
Has saved in Ephesians 2:8 is a perfect passive participle. Saved is a continuing action resulting from a past act. Since has saved is passive, it is God Who has done the saving.
Great questions!
In the 2 Tim. passage has saved is an Aorist active participle and since it is a participle and not indicative, it is timeless. To say the action is endless would give an attribute of time to it. A continuous action. But since it is a participle the emphasis is only on the action or event.
Has saved in Ephesians 2:8 is a perfect passive participle. Saved is a continuing action resulting from a past act. Since has saved is passive, it is God Who has done the saving.
Great questions!
Okay, I was just reading in the other thread and in a post where I said faith and trust mean the same thing, you liked my post, EG. So it is Believe that you define differently than me. And you get your understanding of that from James, so it makes sense that you have come to it. I'm cool with your understanding of it.
And curiously...most of the time when I post, I talk about "believe and trust" or just "trust." I don't think I ever really just say "believe..." So even I myself seem to feel the need to say "believe and trust" for some reason, though I wasn't aware of it.
And curiously...most of the time when I post, I talk about "believe and trust" or just "trust." I don't think I ever really just say "believe..." So even I myself seem to feel the need to say "believe and trust" for some reason, though I wasn't aware of it.
E
I get my interpretation of belief from everyday life. People believe things all the time, yet do not trust the things they believe in or have any assurance in it.
The example i like to use is this
A man goes to niagra falls. He puts a tightrope between the United states side and ther canadian side. He then takes a special wheelbarrow and loads it up with 200 lbs worth of rocks, and pushes that wheelbarrow from one sid to the other and back again, After he gets back, he finds a crowd has gathered, He places another 50 lbs into his wheelbarrow and walks across and back again, This time he asks the crowd if they believe he can take a human across. Everyone in the crowd raises their hand. He then asks for volunteers, and he would give them 100 dollars. No one raises their hand. Why?
They believed he could do it (he proved it by doing it twice with over 200 lbs of rock in the wheelbarrow) But no one had assurance or trust he would make it if they got in the wheelbarrow. Their actions (or lack of) proved they had no faith
The same is found in scripture. Many of the jews paul had to appose; believed in Jesus, they even believed he rose from the dead, but they had no faith in the gospel. Which is why they believed they had to add works of the law. Their actual faith was in the law. Thats why even though they believed in Jesus, they could not trust completely in Jesus. They lived in legalism, because although they believed, their trust was misplaced.
In james, we have people who I have no doubnt believed in jesus, and no doubt nelieved he rose from the dead. But they did not have any faith or assurance what God said about them and said in his written word. Proven by the fact they were hearers of the word, and not doers. Proven by the fact they claimed they had faith, But had no works They still lived the licentious lifestyle because their trust was misplaced. Even though they believed
We have seen it in CC, A former poster opened a thread asking if the cross was enough., His answer was no, It was not enough. God needed us to do our part. I have no dount this person believes very strongly in Jesus and has no doubt he rose from the dead. And that he died for sinners, But this person has no faith or assurance in the gospel at all.
I hope these examples help you better understand what i am trying to say.
The example i like to use is this
A man goes to niagra falls. He puts a tightrope between the United states side and ther canadian side. He then takes a special wheelbarrow and loads it up with 200 lbs worth of rocks, and pushes that wheelbarrow from one sid to the other and back again, After he gets back, he finds a crowd has gathered, He places another 50 lbs into his wheelbarrow and walks across and back again, This time he asks the crowd if they believe he can take a human across. Everyone in the crowd raises their hand. He then asks for volunteers, and he would give them 100 dollars. No one raises their hand. Why?
They believed he could do it (he proved it by doing it twice with over 200 lbs of rock in the wheelbarrow) But no one had assurance or trust he would make it if they got in the wheelbarrow. Their actions (or lack of) proved they had no faith
The same is found in scripture. Many of the jews paul had to appose; believed in Jesus, they even believed he rose from the dead, but they had no faith in the gospel. Which is why they believed they had to add works of the law. Their actual faith was in the law. Thats why even though they believed in Jesus, they could not trust completely in Jesus. They lived in legalism, because although they believed, their trust was misplaced.
In james, we have people who I have no doubnt believed in jesus, and no doubt nelieved he rose from the dead. But they did not have any faith or assurance what God said about them and said in his written word. Proven by the fact they were hearers of the word, and not doers. Proven by the fact they claimed they had faith, But had no works They still lived the licentious lifestyle because their trust was misplaced. Even though they believed
We have seen it in CC, A former poster opened a thread asking if the cross was enough., His answer was no, It was not enough. God needed us to do our part. I have no dount this person believes very strongly in Jesus and has no doubt he rose from the dead. And that he died for sinners, But this person has no faith or assurance in the gospel at all.
I hope these examples help you better understand what i am trying to say.
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Perhaps. But these are not the one who are dogmatic about Christians losing their salvation. They simply have doubts about themselves. And we are not talking about people with a faulty understanding of what salvation is all about. If their understanding is faulty, all the more reason to sit down and study, rather than spout off.
I agree with you somewhat but even though we try to walk in God's Grace, this fleshly body sins every day.....It may be forgiven but it still happens.... If you believe there is no sin, then you have a big problem because on Jesus as a Man was the only MAN who no SIN never touch HIM.
Blessings to you and yours
Blade