Once Saved, Always Saved ... OR Can you Lose your Salvation?

[Ralph-]

He got me saved by believing? Who did Messiah? Or did He get me saved because He is the sacrificial lamb that fulfilled the Laws requirements of atonement. So He did not get me saved thru my believing. He got me saved by being Messiah/ G-d. If G-d reveals to me Messiah can He not keep revealing Him to me? I mean He keeps scantisfying us until we have the fluffiness of our salvation... Is G-d unable to keep His children, He can only keep the whole universe but not His children? Maybe "they" were never saved to begin with..... Yes, I believed His is Messiah and confessed Him with my mouth.... But where did that even come from? Before salvation I was at enmity with G-d.

Faith is how you access the sacrificial lamb of God that saves you. That is how you are justified-by faith in Jesus. As opposed to being justified by works of the law.


And yes, Christ is the fabric softener of the fluffiness of our salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No more proud of our power than you are of your power and righteousness when you first got saved.


Yes, I know, you had no pride in your power and righteousness to believe and be saved on that first day, yet it was incumbent on YOU to believe and receive the free gift of salvation. And so in this same way, are we not taking pride in our power and righteousness to KEEP believing in the free gift of salvation.

Jesus said it is the work of God we believe in the one he sent. (It is his work, his power and his righteousness)

Ypu teach it is your work your power, and your righteousness which keeps you believing.

notice the difference?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You have taken the title away from EG!
No way he can outdo you on that one!
It's a knockout. EG has lost the title.

spelling? Lol

 

[Ralph-]

Jesus said it is the work of God we believe in the one he sent. (It is his work, his power and his righteousness)

Ypu teach it is your work your power, and your righteousness which keeps you believing.

notice the difference?

Christ does not do my believing for me. Does he do it for you? Like always, you will not answer my question.



I can not boast in my believing because it is only because of God's gracious gift of faith that I can even do my believing.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Faith is how you access the sacrificial lamb of God that saves you. That is how you are justified-by faith in Jesus. As opposed to being justified by works of the law.


And yes, Christ is the fabric softener of the fluffiness of our salvation.

I don't think you should make a doctrine of what mcubed said...he hasn't even proven what he said is biblical...

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Jesus said it is the work of God we believe in the one he sent. (It is his work, his power and his righteousness)

Ypu teach it is your work your power, and your righteousness which keeps you believing.

notice the difference?

What verse is that EG? Your first sentence.

 

[DJ2]

Amen and as john said, it is the knowledge we HAVE eternal life which is the root of our faith.

The question is not are Christians promised eternal life, they certainly are. The question is does apostasy and false assurance exist? I would say yes, of course. Since both apostasy and false assurance exist the notion of "knowing" beyond a doubt our individual personal futures cannot be taken for granted.

This would explain the need for the many verses given to Christians about staying on the narrow path. I realise that this is not a popular statement but the Bible is full of warnings directed at us for this reason. It makes little sense to repeatedly warn of something that cannot happen.

 

[Ralph-]

You people are afraid to see that you do your believing because you think that's somehow included in the works that constitute the gospel of works.

 

[Ralph-]

The question is not are Christians promised eternal life, they certainly are. The question is does apostasy and false assurance exist? I would say yes, of course. Since both apostasy and false assurance exist the notion of "knowing" beyond a doubt our individual personal futures cannot be taken for granted.

This would explain the need for the many verses given to Christians about staying on the narrow path. I realise that this is not a popular statement but the Bible is full of warnings directed at us for this reason. It makes little sense to repeatedly warn of something that cannot happen.

So true.

If once saved always saved is true, Paul got his undies in a bunch for nothing when the Galatian church, the Hebrew church, and the Corinthian church were led away to another gospel.

Not to mention that Jesus was wasting his breath, practically lying, when he talked about not causing little ones who believe in him to stumble so as to go to the eternal fire.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I think the way we come to God has something to do with how we view this...
EG, I remember a conversation with you where you said you were seeking and studying the bible for years before you were saved.
I didn't do any of that. It was just an instantaneous bang when I read the gospel.

So I can see how to you, you made a choice.
I just suddenly saw.

 

[FlSnookman7]

What verse is that EG? Your first sentence.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Christ does not do my believing for me. Does he do it for you? Like always, you will not answer my question.

I never said chgrist did my believing, please stop with the nonsense. I warned you about trying to judge what others are saying without understadning, and we have been through this before.

Did you do the work required to be saved? Did you do the work required to convict yourself of sin righteousness and judgment?

Did you do the work of chosing to offer yourself the gift of salvation?

Sinced when does a person who receive a gift ever do the work?

I can not boast in my believing because it is only because of God's gracious gift of faith that I can even do my believing.

Yes you can, Because you maintain you belief under YOUR POWER. YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS and YOUR WORK

are we not taking pride in our power and righteousness to KEEP believing in the free gift of salvation.

Way to much you and not enough God in the equation (there should be ZERO you in the equation)

 

[Ralph-]

You people are afraid to see that you do your believing because you think that's somehow included in the works that constitute the gospel of works.

You people have erroneously defined the works gospel as you doing anything to get saved. When it's quite clear what you have to do to be saved is believe. What you don't have to do is works of righteousness in the law to be saved.

Stop including 'believing' in with the works of the works gospel that can not justify. It's okay for you to have to do the required believing in order to be saved. It's not included in the self righteous works that can not justify. Paul said so. Just don't boast in it, because you can't do the believing that justifies without God's gracious gift of faith to know the gospel is even true in the first place.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ah...my translation gives a very different view there.
Yours sounds like: It is the working of God that you believe in Me.
Mine says something like...there is only one work God wants from you - to believe in the one He sent.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What verse is that EG? Your first sentence.

john 6: 27 - [FONT=&quot]Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”[/FONT][FONT=&quot]28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”[/FONT]

 

[FlSnookman7]

Ah...my translation gives a very different view there.
Yours sounds like: It is the working of God that you believe in Me.
Mine says something like...there is only one work God wants from you - to believe in the one He sent.

That is the KJV it's my favorite to read. I also like the AMP for studying.

John 6:29 29 Jesus replied, This is the work (service) that God asks of you: that you believe in the One Whom He has sent [that you cleave to, trust, rely on, and have faith in His Messenger].

 

[tourist]

Would love to hear different points of view on this and Scirptural support of your view if you have it.

This topic has been an ongoing discussion in various threads since I became a member 4 years ago. My view is that either Jesus died for your sins or He didn't. Therefore, once saved always saved. I am sure that others will provide scripture for both sides of this debate.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You people are afraid to see that you do your believing because you think that's somehow included in the works that constitute the gospel of works.

God did all the work, All I did was trust in his work.

I had no work in comming to faith in Christ, it was all his work. And I have no work to do to keep my faith, My faith is based on the trustworthyness of God. If my faith can fail. Then it is not faith at all

You want to take credit, you can nto give any to God, and you wonder why you think your belief can be lost. It has no root, It is based on your power Not Gods

 

[Ralph-]

I never said chgrist did my believing

Then who did?????

Just tell us so we are clear on what you believe. So far you keep slamming anyone who says they do their own believing to be saved because you insist that's them working for their own salvation.

Did you do the work required to be saved?

Yes, I believed.
Not Jesus, not the Father, not my mother.......ME.
But I can not boast because I did it through the power God gave me to know the gospel is even true in the first place.

Did you do the work required to convict yourself of sin righteousness and judgment?

Did you do the work of chosing to offer yourself the gift of salvation?

Sinced when does a person who receive a gift ever do the work?

...When that work is believing. That's when.

Yes you can, Because you maintain you belief under YOUR POWER. YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS and YOUR WORK

Nope, not by my power.......I continue to believe (ME, not God) through the power and encouragement of God's gift of faith.

Way to much you and not enough God in the equation (there should be ZERO you in the equation)

Then who's going to do my believing for me? You? God? My mother? FranC?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

God did all the work, All I did was trust in his work.

I had no work in comming to faith in Christ, it was all his work. And I have no work to do to keep my faith, My faith is based on the trustworthyness of God. If my faith can fail. Then it is not faith at all

You want to take credit, you can nto give any to God, and you wonder why you think your belief can be lost. It has no root, It is based on your power Not Gods

You agreed with me yesterday that faith and trust mean the same thing.
And you agreed that faith is a gift.
So in your first sentence, it's like you say: all I did was faith in His work.