Once Saved, Always Saved ... OR Can you Lose your Salvation?

[Bladerunner]

I think, we'll have to take a step back and look at this in the context of identities.

Once you were a sinner. Even though you were a sinner, you didn't sin all the time. There were times you were doing good things. You loved your family, you loved your friends. You gave to charities, you forgave some people who wronged you. Heck, you even followed some of the ten commandments, you didn't murder, didn't commit adultery, etc. You were not actually a terrible sinner. But sinner, you remained. It was who you were, without Christ and no amount of good doing could've changed that.

Now, when you accepted Jesus' (re: Jesus fulfilled the law in your place) sacrifice on the Cross for you. Your identity changed.

You became righteous in Christ. By the same token now, you remain righteous by Christ's sacrifice, alone. You don't always pray, you don't always do good, you don't always give. Heck, you even broke some of the ten commandments. You don't keep the sabbath, and let's go down deeper, you've committed adultery, or you don't always believe that God actually meant every Word He said (i.e. where sin abounds, grace abounds so much more). You're not exactly a very good Christian, by your standards. But righteous, you remain. It is who you are now, in Christ and no amount of bad doing could change that.

Biblical reference: Romans 5, and so much more.

Lets face it for what it is......SIN......regardless of ones salvation, Man will always sin. Having said that, when one is saved and the Holy Spirit is within them, they tend to walk in the way of Jesus, yet they still sin Daily and cannot help it for this fleshly body knows no other way. A faithful person who is saved, will have to fight the act of sinning everyday until death as Paul did.

 

[AbigailZeke]

We are facing sin for what it is. You seem to belittle the grace of God. It all comes down to sin vs grace. It's an obvious victory.

Read your bible again and find all the topologies of vine, tree, why Jesus calls us branches and He the vine, or how holiness (by your definition, not sinning) is fruit of grace.

When one is saved, he not only tends to walk in the way of Jesus, HE CAN'T HELP IT. Which takes me back to my argument, you can't help being saved for eternity. It's just not in your hands anymore.

Lets face it for what it is......SIN......regardless of ones salvation, Man will always sin. Having said that, when one is saved and the Holy Spirit is within them, they tend to walk in the way of Jesus, yet they still sin Daily and cannot help it for this fleshly body knows no other way. A faithful person who is saved, will have to fight the act of sinning everyday until death as Paul did.

 

[AbigailZeke]

Here's a question:

Can you out-sin your salvation?

Re: Can you out-sin the grace of God?

 

[AbigailZeke]

People keep talking about sin like it's what made you a sinner. Like you sin so you become a sinner.

Take a step back.

You sin because you were ALREADY a sinner. By Adam's sin, you became one. By one man's disobedience.

Insert Jesus here and...

You produce the fruit of the Spirit because you've become righteous. By Jesus' death. By Jesus' obedience.

 

[AbigailZeke]

I meant typologies... "topologies" is what I was supposed to write on my essay.

We are facing sin for what it is. You seem to belittle the grace of God. It all comes down to sin vs grace. It's an obvious victory.

Read your bible again and find all the topologies of vine, tree, why Jesus calls us branches and He the vine, or how holiness (by your definition, not sinning) is fruit of grace.

When one is saved, he not only tends to walk in the way of Jesus, HE CAN'T HELP IT. Which takes me back to my argument, you can't help being saved for eternity. It's just not in your hands anymore.

 

[Ugly]

People keep talking about sin like it's what made you a sinner. Like you sin so you become a sinner.

Take a step back.

You sin because you were ALREADY a sinner. By Adam's sin, you became one. By one man's disobedience.

Insert Jesus here and...

You produce the fruit of the Spirit because you've become righteous. By Jesus' death. By Jesus' obedience.

By that logic Jesus was a sinner.

If a man were able to not sin his entire life and died then you say God would consider him a sinner, despite having not sinned? That runs contrary to God's nature.

 

[AbigailZeke]

You're close. Jesus became sin, which is why He died on the Cross. God's righteous judgement was unleashed upon Him.

By that logic Jesus was a sinner.

If a man were able to not sin his entire life and died then you say God would consider him a sinner, despite having not sinned? That runs contrary to God's nature.

 

[AbigailZeke]

I think you're getting it though.

Jesus became sin.

He who knew no sin, did no sin and in whom was no sin. Why do you think the bible emphasized on that?

So that we know that it was our sins, our being sinners, our very sin nature that sent Jesus to the Cross.

By that logic Jesus was a sinner.

If a man were able to not sin his entire life and died then you say God would consider him a sinner, despite having not sinned? That runs contrary to God's nature.

 

[AbigailZeke]

If it was our sinning, as in the act of sinning, that sent Jesus to the Cross. He'd have to die over and over again, wouldn't He?

 

[AbigailZeke]

In Psalm 32:2, which Paul re-echoed in Romans 4:8

"Sin" is charged upon / imputed on / counted against a person.

Further proof that sin was imputed on Jesus on the Cross. Means, He didn't sin, but sin was counted upon Him, on our behalf.

 

[AbigailZeke]

Another typology is the slaying of the Lamb in the old testament.

Why did Jews have a 'sin' offering?

Did the lamb do anything? Did the lamb sin?

No, but the lamb died for the sins of Israel.

And Jesus died for the world, one death, for eternity.

Because His blood is much, MUCH more than that of a lamb.

 

[Ralph-]

Here's a question:

Can you out-sin your salvation?

Re: Can you out-sin the grace of God?

You can go back to the world in unbelief.

God's grace will not follow you back into unbelief. It will cover you in the weakness and ignorance and stupidity of your sinning, but it will not cover you if you go back to the world in a rejection of the blood that sanctified you.

A denial of Christ is the one place where God's grace can not reach you. You can't have God's forgiveness and reject it at the same time.

 

[AbigailZeke]

The only reason you will seek God's forgiveness is because you know you need it. Who in their right mind would reject something they sought in the first place?

Give me an example.

You can go back to the world in unbelief.

God's grace will not follow you back into unbelief. It will cover you in the weakness and ignorance and stupidity of your sinning, but it will not cover you if you go back to the world in a rejection of the blood that sanctified you.

A denial of Christ is the one place where God's grace can not reach you. You can't have God's forgiveness and reject it at the same time.

 

[Ralph-]

If it was our sinning, as in the act of sinning, that sent Jesus to the Cross. He'd have to die over and over again, wouldn't He?

No he doesn't have to die over and over again in a re-sacrificing of himself because he is the Priest that never dies and his sacrifice is always on the altar in heaven. Unlike the Mosaic priests who died, ending their ministry, and the Mosaic sacrifices that burned up and disappeared and had to be offered again.

"He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."-Hebrews 7:25

 

[AbigailZeke]

Lunch break is over. Until next time!

 

[Ralph-]

Who in their right mind would reject something they sought in the first place?

Give me an example.

The Galatians.

And the Hebrew church at Jerusalem.

 

[mcubed]

No.


Was Y-shua's death and resurrection worthless? Should we die in the first week of being Saved because we might lose our Salvation for people like me save in Feb. 1991.... Am I maybe not saved no more? ... I have sinned a lot in almost 30 years... repeated a lot of them.... I promise you over the last almost 30 years. Can I crucify Messiah again? Many of when I was 18 and got saved I have never repeated. Explain to me why Messiah is enough to get me saved but not keep me saved....

 

[Ralph-]

Explain to me why Messiah is enough to get me saved but not keep me saved....

The same way he got you saved is the same way he'll keep you saved...........through your believing.

Keep believing.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Romans 5 King James Version (KJV)

5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[LaurieB]

Catholics dont use the term as you understand it. It is not a one-off deal ... it is a lifetime and it includes more than faith and not sinning. It includes doing good things for others ... like Jesus instructed.