Once Saved, Always Saved ... OR Can you Lose your Salvation?
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Jesus died so that we could have forgiveness for our sin.
Yes, we must be law abiding.
BUT, this is accomplished through trusting Him.
It is not accomplished through trying really, really hard to be good.
Jesus says if I even have anger in my heart at you, I have already murdered. My gosh, who on earth can fix that?? I mean, I can try to hide my anger from you, but He says that's just washing the outside while the inside is still filthy. I can try to convince myself that I'm not really angry, but that's just delusion.
So, what can I do EXCEPT trust Him to do something to fix my heart??
Romans says, the good news tells us all about how God makes us right with Himself and it is accomplished from start to finish by TRUST.
Yes, we must be law abiding.
BUT, this is accomplished through trusting Him.
It is not accomplished through trying really, really hard to be good.
Jesus says if I even have anger in my heart at you, I have already murdered. My gosh, who on earth can fix that?? I mean, I can try to hide my anger from you, but He says that's just washing the outside while the inside is still filthy. I can try to convince myself that I'm not really angry, but that's just delusion.
So, what can I do EXCEPT trust Him to do something to fix my heart??
Romans says, the good news tells us all about how God makes us right with Himself and it is accomplished from start to finish by TRUST.
I don't read the Bible literally and I beliefve we have the ability to be good people. We are not born bad. The Sermon on the Mount is about a way to live .. it IS about being good. If Jesus thought we could not be good, He would not have wasted three and a half years tell us HOW to be good people.
The fundamentalist "sin" versus "not sinning" approach misses the mark ... it misses the LIFE of Jesus and it focuses on his death.
The fundamentalist "sin" versus "not sinning" approach misses the mark ... it misses the LIFE of Jesus and it focuses on his death.
Well, unfortunately your approach to the Bible means that you can ignore anything that you don't like...
The result will not be good for you.
If what you say is correct then there was no reason for Jesus to die on the cross - it was all a terrible mistake based on misunderstanding...
However, Jesus Christ did not die in vain, and salvation is on offer in His name, by grace through faith.
You think that no-one is born bad, however all it takes is a single sin to become a sinner and therefore be subject to judgement.
The Bible actually tells us that we are, in fact, born sinners.
However either way the result is the same.
If you claim that righteousness before God is possible on your own merits - then fine, go for it!
As for me, I know my righteousness before God is utterly, completely, and finally because I am covered by the blood of Jesus Christ and nought because of my apparent merit...
The result will not be good for you.
If what you say is correct then there was no reason for Jesus to die on the cross - it was all a terrible mistake based on misunderstanding...
However, Jesus Christ did not die in vain, and salvation is on offer in His name, by grace through faith.
You think that no-one is born bad, however all it takes is a single sin to become a sinner and therefore be subject to judgement.
The Bible actually tells us that we are, in fact, born sinners.
However either way the result is the same.
If you claim that righteousness before God is possible on your own merits - then fine, go for it!
As for me, I know my righteousness before God is utterly, completely, and finally because I am covered by the blood of Jesus Christ and nought because of my apparent merit...
There are many scriptures that show that it has happened and will happen, not by every Christian obviously, but by many. Jesus says “Not everyone who calls Me Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven.” Look at Ananias and his wife in Acts 5. Look at Saul the first king of Israel- the Holy Spirit was taken from him. Look at Judas. Look at Paul saying that even though he preached to others, he has to be careful that he himself doesn’t get disqualified for ‘the prize’.
Yes there are scriptures, for example... “But if you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins.” “If” means “choice/decision”, “you” means “Christian” “Sin willfully” means premeditated and ongoing without goal or effort to stop, “No longer” means there once genuinely did remain a sacrifice for “you”- which means this person was a saved Christian but is no longer a saved Christian- which means OSAS is a false doctrine- it is possible to lose your salvation.
Yes there are scriptures, for example... “But if you sin willfully there no longer remains a sacrifice for your sins.” “If” means “choice/decision”, “you” means “Christian” “Sin willfully” means premeditated and ongoing without goal or effort to stop, “No longer” means there once genuinely did remain a sacrifice for “you”- which means this person was a saved Christian but is no longer a saved Christian- which means OSAS is a false doctrine- it is possible to lose your salvation.
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Jesus died because of our sins. Jesus died because of our sins ofindifference, jealousy, and exclusion. Jesus died because of our sins of self righteousness, selfcenteredness,and selfishness. And Jesus died because of our sins of hatred, revenge, and war.Jesus looked hatred in the face and preached love.
Jesus looked revenge in the face and preachedforgiveness. And Jesus looked war in the face and preached peace. And they killed him. Notbecause God demanded a human sacrifice for our sins. But because you can't go against thepowers that be and live to tell about it.
Oh, you're back! 
I've put off leaving for a bit hoping you would be back and here you are!
So Jesus died, not because it was Gods' will, to give us forgiveness for our sin, but because that's just what happens if you tell the truth? So then why did Jesus say: no one takes My life from Me. I give up my life willingly.
I've put off leaving for a bit hoping you would be back and here you are! So Jesus died, not because it was Gods' will, to give us forgiveness for our sin, but because that's just what happens if you tell the truth? So then why did Jesus say: no one takes My life from Me. I give up my life willingly.
Saving belief/faith in Christ believes unto death and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. Revelation 2:10 is meant to be an encouraging statement from the Lord to Christians at the church of Smyrna who were being persecuted, even to the point of death. The Lord was telling them that they will receive the crown of life after death, be faithful, hang in there. Nothing is implied there about being unfaithful and losing salvation.
In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY genuine BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are not faithful at all, let alone unto death.
In the very next verse, Jesus said - "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." 1 John 5:4, we read - "For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world--our faith. ONLY genuine BELIEVERS are saved, overcome, and are faithful unto death (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Peter 1:9). Unbelievers are not saved, do not overcome and are not faithful at all, let alone unto death.
Stunnedby Grace:
Hi again and think you for taking the time and for caring enough to respond and use your time this way. I appreciate that you do hear other views.
There are actually 4 theories in Christianity about why Jesus died. In any case, I hope we can all agree on one thing: Jesus life has had a profound influence on us and will continue to ... forever. I know that without Jesus in my life, I would not make it. He is a powerful example of love. His teachings are profound. And ... you can believe he died for you because he did. He said the things he said ... knowing that they hated Him ... knowing that they would kill Him ... so in that sense, we do agree ... He did die for our sins.
For me, it is all about the Gospel. We are all sinners. We all need grace and we are all ALSO a work in progress.
I dont want to argue with you guys. I would rather focus on what we, as Christians, have in common ... really what we, as human beings, have in common AND how we can make this world a better place.
May God Bless us all.
Laurie
Hi again and think you for taking the time and for caring enough to respond and use your time this way. I appreciate that you do hear other views.
There are actually 4 theories in Christianity about why Jesus died. In any case, I hope we can all agree on one thing: Jesus life has had a profound influence on us and will continue to ... forever. I know that without Jesus in my life, I would not make it. He is a powerful example of love. His teachings are profound. And ... you can believe he died for you because he did. He said the things he said ... knowing that they hated Him ... knowing that they would kill Him ... so in that sense, we do agree ... He did die for our sins.
For me, it is all about the Gospel. We are all sinners. We all need grace and we are all ALSO a work in progress.
I dont want to argue with you guys. I would rather focus on what we, as Christians, have in common ... really what we, as human beings, have in common AND how we can make this world a better place.
May God Bless us all.
Laurie
Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.
Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.
Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Please describe to me what YOU believe it means to "believe" unto death. Trust in "water and works" for salvation unto death? After leaving the church of Christ (that I had temporarily attended) several years ago, I ran into a woman who still attended there and she implied to me that because I no longer attend the church of Christ, I failed to "remain faithful" and won't be saved.
Apparently, continuing to attend the church of Christ and embracing their doctrine to the end was her theory on being faithful unto death.
Apparently, continuing to attend the church of Christ and embracing their doctrine to the end was her theory on being faithful unto death.