Look man I don't have to do anything because you say it, but I will try to answer your questions one more time to clear thing up. First stop acting like you know it all. Your arrogant tone is VERY off-putting. Second you can't tell everything about someone by overanalyzing one comment.
When someone states that a Christian CAN sin from time to time so long as they do not make a habit of it and then for someone else to point out the problem with that statement it is not being arrogant or being a know it all.
Again this was the original quote...
...once you are saved you COULD TECHNIQULY choose to do wrong, or sin away just like before, the Spirit will make it impossible to actually continuously do so. Even if you try to fight it at first, the Spirit will win. So while I say logically it is possible for a saved Christian to live in sin, Spiritually I say we can not (please understand I see a difference in "living in sin" and committing the occasional sin here or there or realizing something you've always done was a sin through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and then correcting it), and therefore agree can not lose our salvation in this way.
It is not over analysing that quote to conclude that you believe the following...
1. One could, in principle, choose to do wrong or sin away like before with the difference being that the Holy Spirit will make it impossible to continuously to do so.
So with that first point you have a situation where there is no total transformation for that transformation is yet to come. You alluding to an "in between period" of sinning while saved until such a time as the "continuity of the sin" stops. Thus "salvation" and "ceasing from sin" have nothing to do with each other in your assertion because if the sin didn't have to stop in the beginning. The logic of that seems pretty clear for me.
It is the same logic which can be applied to those who teach that there is no sin that one has to stop BEFORE God grants forgiveness yet claim the sin will stop later lest one lose their salvation. That is inconsistent logic also because if forgiveness is granted to one still in rebellion then why is forgiveness removed for that same rebellion later? See the inconsistency? This is one of the major problems with Wesleyian or Arminian theology which few appear to pay attention to.
2. There is a difference between "living in sin" and "committing the occasional sin here or there." There is also a distinction between "committing an occasional sin here or there" and "sins of ignorance."
Thus your theology is still inclusive of rebellion in salvation, your only prerequisite is that the rebellion not occur to often (ie. occasionally here and there).
I conclude that such beliefs are a complete denial of authentic repentance and a complete denial of heart purity in salvation. Now you may find that off putting but the reason I address things like that is because there is a massive deception in the church system today where these denials are common and many people hold to these denials without even realising it.
What I am attempting to do is pull down strongholds by digging at the root of these issues. "Saved IN Sin" is the common teaching today and it is premised on the lie of "Sin You Will And Sin You Must" both of which support Satan's lie of "Ye Can Sin And Not Surely Die."
It is not a light issue worth blowing over because this deception has lead and is leading MANY people to damnation.
Ok to you questions.
"You have stated that it is ONLY the first category which should not apply to a Christian. You make allowance for the second and third categories", see here is a disconnect, I would put the 2 remaining categories together. I may react to a given situation in a way I immediately regret and will repent and do what I can to make everything right, but I still actually did wrong. I, given a choice, feel I will not choose to sin at all, yet if it is something I didn't think of as sin until the Holy Spirit convicts me of it later in my walk then what? Have I not been sinning even though I didn't realize it?
You speak of rebellion as if it is something in which you can slip into "in the moment" and then "feel convicted and say sorry." That attitude is an evidence that you deny the notion of being redeemed from all iniquity and made pure.
A sin of ignorance may be regretted whereby one will repent and do all to make it right but rebellion is another thing entirely. That is why in Hebrews is speaks of a "willful sin" as opposed to a sin of ignorance as leaving no remaining sacrifice. Jesus offered Himself upon our behalf that we may approach God in all truth, confessing our wrong doings, and be washed clean whereby we are given a fresh start, raised up in Him to new life where ALL THINGS are made new. To take that cleansing and defile it by choosing evil is to trample the blood of Christ underfoot and the Bible warns in no light manner about doing such a thing.
When I listed these categories you alluded to...
1. Living in sin = unabashed sinnning. ie. sinning all the time.
2. Occasionally sinning. Sinning here or there.
3. Sins of ignorance.
...and you continue to join 2. and 3. together you are obviously teaching that "you can sin and not surely die" just so long as you "say sorry" until it happens again. That is clearly arguing in favour of sin.
We are not talking about sins of ignorance here but rebellion.
An example, when I was reborn I stopped a lot of lifelong habits I never even though of as sin, like video games and porn. I tried to play video games once and just felt there was better ways to spend my time, I tried to pull up porn one time as well after regeneration and could only think of what the girl had been through to get to this spot, what happens if her kids ever come across this, how would her parents feel to see it.
I can understand temptation being manifest but we are not to yield to temptation. A Christian has crucified the flesh with the passions and desires, the old man is crucified, the body of sin destroyed, that we no longer yield ourselves to sin. That is what Paul clearly teaches.
Why would a Christian "try" to pull up porn or "try" to waste time on a game? Again I can understand the temptation being there so perhaps that is what you are referring to instead of actually "trying to do it." Yet the context still must be within your connection of "rebellion" and "sins of ignorance" where both are permissible in salvation so long as one does not "continually do them."
Do you believe you could have actually engaged in one more porn watching session and still remained in a saved state so long as you yielded to conviction and said sorry afterwards? You see that is the problem here, it is the viewing of salvation in a positional and abstract manner and thus disconnecting it from the condition of the heart.
A pure heart does not choose evil. EVER. Never ever. Not one time. The moment one chooses evil is the moment that one's heart is not pure. Once cannot serve evil and be a child of God, they are mutually exclusive states of existence. There is no such thing as rocking back and forth between the service of two masters either. We forsake one master (sin) to serve the other (righteousness) and we have to endure in that service lest we perish. Repentance is not an easy thing to find and the attitude that one can keep on repenting demonstrates a lack of understanding of what godly sorrow working repentance unto salvation actually is.
The Spirit just changed all that overnight, and I haven't done either in about 14 months now. The thing is I even took the TV's out of my house too now, yet the Spirit only lead me to do that 2 months ago. I now see the TV as a tool for sin, yet I was regenerated a whole year while still watching it, and letting my kids watch it. I was saved and still sinned. I may still be sinning every day in a way I don't see yet.
Well doing wrong without knowing it is wrong is not a sin unto death and is not rooted in an evil heart. That is not the issue I am speaking of here at all. I am speaking of REBELLION. I am speaking of WILLFULLY CHOOSING to do evil.
That is what I'm talking about. I really agree with what you're saying, and to be honest I am usually on the other side of this debate anyway. I do KNOW that a true Christian is changed, a new creature and we do not sin knowingly, and if we do the Spirit lets us know that it was a slap to His face.
Yet that is not what you stated earlier is it?
You clearly stated that you lump categories 2. and 3. together...
I would put the 2 remaining categories together.
1. Living in sin = unabashed sinnning. ie. sinning all the time.
2. Occasionally sinning. Sinning here or there.
3. Sins of ignorance.
...thus there is no possible way you can be in agreement with what I say. You have clearly asserted that "occasional sin is permissible" in the Christian walk which you reassert when you say...
a new creature and we do not sin knowingly, and if we do the Spirit lets us know that it was a slap to His face.
...which when compared to this...
I see a difference in "living in sin" and committing the occasional sin here or there or realizing something you've always done was a sin through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and then correcting it), and therefore agree can not lose our salvation in this way.
Thus your theology is not really any different to anyone else upholding the "saved IN sins" message.
You believe that one can remain saved while one engages in rebellion to God. You clearly have no idea what salvation actually is and if that offends you and causes you to label me any number of names then so be it.
The Bible says...
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
That is how the children of God are MANIFEST to the world. They don't "rebel occasionally" against God. The rebellion has ceased.
I just think you were on a "Sin is not ok" mission (that I agree with you on) and overreacted to a very small part of one post in ignorance of who Gods made me. I still feel you should chill all that "I know about your salvation" stuff out man. This isn't a game and He works in each one of us differently, and while you should never stop speaking truth, you are not God and cannot make those kinds of calls. Why do you feel you know enough to say these things to people? I addressed your questions, it would be cool to see why you feel you are so authoritative. You do know the very same God is in many of us right?
I have not overreacted at all. I am just not fooled by the pretense of the saved in sins message.
The Bible warns us of MASSIVE DECEPTION which would come yet few takes those warnings very seriously.
Paul wrote this...
Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
Paul warned people for THREE YEARS, NIGHT AND DAY, with TEARS of the wolves who would enter in amongst the brethren and speak perverse things. Paul took deception very seriously.
The very last thing Peter wrote in his second epistle was...
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Peter speaks about MANIFEST holiness (verses 11 and 14) and then WARNS of those who would twist Paul and the other scriptures to lure people with the error of the wicked. Peter took deception very seriously also.
Jude wrote...
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Here Jude warns of certain men who crept in amongst the brethren and twist God's grace into a license to sin. This is EXACTLY what has happened with the modern grace message. Due to the doctrine of "sin you will and sin you must" (which is rooted in birth depravity teaching) grace is, by necessity, redefined to be a CLOAK for ongoing sinfulness. Thus one can be saved while they still "occasionally" rebel against God. Heart purity is thrown out the window and utterly denied.
Don't be deceived but think on these things please.
Thank you.
