I don't believe that is true from what I've seen and heard from Calvinist, they have a relationship with God and openly say so. However I can see how and why they see things the way they do, but I also believe we have free will. God does want everyone to be saved, and loves us all, yet most of us (people of the world not us the CC community, even though it could still apply) will not live for eternity with Jesus.The Bible is very clear on that. I feel that the truth is somewhere in the middle as it usually is in these Christian Vs Christian debates. I truly believe free will is how we were made in His image. I also feel the Bible clearly tells us that we choose who we will serve. Without free will love can not exist.
Open Theism? What is really being said?
- Thread starter Grace777x70
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
No. God cannot lie. I haven't seen where this open theist concept says that God changes His nature as alleged . This could be just your "interpretation" of people having free choice and you are entitled to it.
I am not defending open theism in all it's tenets as can be seen in my posts if people are honest. I'm asking questions - "to find out what exactly they are saying" and not what some people can do in twisting what they say to make it "appear" to be different then what it really is. That's the hallmark of the self-proclaimed heretic hunters.
So far - I agree with some tenets and others I don't.
Anyway - I'll check it out further. Remember to never throw the baby out with the dirty water....
..Have a great day!
Maybe for some people they really don't view the things of God as a relationship but I'm sure there are Calvinists that are having a relationship with the Lord.
I think all religion make things a "condition" and the religion of Christianity is no different no matter what denomination we ascribe to - from Pentecostal to reformed to Baptists to charismatics and all the other ones in between.
I think all religion make things a "condition" and the religion of Christianity is no different no matter what denomination we ascribe to - from Pentecostal to reformed to Baptists to charismatics and all the other ones in between.
That opening sentence shows you as being head and shoulders above most of us in wisdom. Your words and actions appear to hold to a belief some of us don't seem to have...... that a person should find out enough about possibly contradictory things to actually KNOW what they are before we start in attacking them.
You've listened more than just about all of us, yet some of us already know we are so much more aware of this concept than anyone else. LOL
You've listened more than just about all of us, yet some of us already know we are so much more aware of this concept than anyone else. LOL
Last edited:
What saith the Scriptures? I tend to lean toward this view because of what I have studied in Scripture. Yes, God has declared certain things to come to pass and He will not repent, change His mind. These things have to do with the long term plans of the nation of Israel.
Also, there are passages where God has changed His mind. If indeed God has changed His mind on things He has declared, it can only lead to the assumption that God has chosen to limit His knowledge on man's choices and reacts according to man's reaction when faced with the word of God. Reminder, God is not caught off guard or surprised in any way for He knows us better than we know ourselves.
A good example of this is the story of Jonah. Jonah was sent to preach to Nineveh a message of destruction, "Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown." Question: Did God destroy Nineveh in forty days? No. Did God lie? No. God simply changed His mind based on Nineveh's response to His word. Remember, Nineveh believed God. Most commentaries and preachers will explain this story away and not take it at face value.
Also, there are passages where God has changed His mind. If indeed God has changed His mind on things He has declared, it can only lead to the assumption that God has chosen to limit His knowledge on man's choices and reacts according to man's reaction when faced with the word of God. Reminder, God is not caught off guard or surprised in any way for He knows us better than we know ourselves.
A good example of this is the story of Jonah. Jonah was sent to preach to Nineveh a message of destruction, "Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown." Question: Did God destroy Nineveh in forty days? No. Did God lie? No. God simply changed His mind based on Nineveh's response to His word. Remember, Nineveh believed God. Most commentaries and preachers will explain this story away and not take it at face value.
F
I would say it a little differently. God has Self-limited Himself to function in conjunction with our responses to Him. God influences us, He solicits our response, but He does not coerce us, and He does not violate our freedom to chose. God is love and He desires a loving relationship with us, and love cannot be coerced or forced or programmed in.
""He has made His knowledge of"" ???? That has thrown me.. His knowledge of what???
Well i don't believe that.. God knows all our histories had he has known them from the very foundation of creation..
Well i believe in free will so I would agree with that statement..
I Disagree... Nothing surprises God He knows the end and the beginning.. He did not start the Universe without knowing it would serve His purpose exactly as He desired it to.
Anything that is possible God can do.. We as humans have limited understanding so we cannot set the boundaries of what is possible and what is not with 100% certainty..
Well then just a simple read of the Book of Revelation shows absolutely that God knows how the end of days will pan out.. and this guy is a JESUIT!!!!!! Well that just makes me know he does not know about the deeper things of God.. He knows about the vain thinking of catholic men...
So totally count me out as an open theist..
Well that part is standard Christianity looks like they get some things right when they mix their darkness with our Light..
Well that was demonstrated clearly be Adam and Eve right at the beginning..
He did that to Pharaoh during the time of the Exodus..
God foreknows all who would accept His will and all who would reject His will.. He took no risks in this regard.. Risk would show that God does not know the future of each individual.. The Bible shows that He does.. But yes we have the freedom to embrace His will or reject His will ..
Thanks for the open theism write up.. So i now know what others are saying if they call me an open theist and i can state that i am not an open theist with confidence
A good example of this is the story of Jonah. Jonah was sent to preach to Nineveh a message of destruction, "Yet forty days and Nineveh shall be overthrown." Question: Did God destroy Nineveh in forty days? No. Did God lie? No. God simply changed His mind based on Nineveh's response to His word. Remember, Nineveh believed God. Most commentaries and preachers will explain this story away and not take it at face value.
Did God know that Nineveh would repent and in turn He would not destroy them in forty days?
Did God know that Nineveh would repent and in turn He would not destroy them in forty days?
You say "God does not know what we will freely do in the future."? God knows all, even before it happens. He says He knows our prayers even before we say them. God made statements about the future so many times, such as- "He will be a wild donkey of a man." Do I even need to mention all the prophesies that were written thousands of years before they happened? Starting with Genesis 3:15?
God is not just King, Judge, etc.- He's ... GOD- He knows all and is in control of all. Even Satan cannot do anything without God's permission and foreknowledge (as seen in the case of Job). And how can any human do what God cannot do? (Except sin). A woman, who could accurately tell the future, was following Paul around and annoying him. Finally he cast the enabling demon out of her, and her boss was mad he couldn't make money off her ability anymore. So what you're saying is demons can tell the future but God cannot?
No. God knows every hair on our heads, every time we sit or stand, He knows when He knits us together in the womb what we will become, and He knew all before He even created the world. Even I knew before I got pregnant that my child would be a joy and a pain- trying me at times, breaking my heart at times, and causing me great joy at times. And God foreknew these things too.
God knows all- past, present, and future.
God is not just King, Judge, etc.- He's ... GOD- He knows all and is in control of all. Even Satan cannot do anything without God's permission and foreknowledge (as seen in the case of Job). And how can any human do what God cannot do? (Except sin). A woman, who could accurately tell the future, was following Paul around and annoying him. Finally he cast the enabling demon out of her, and her boss was mad he couldn't make money off her ability anymore. So what you're saying is demons can tell the future but God cannot?
No. God knows every hair on our heads, every time we sit or stand, He knows when He knits us together in the womb what we will become, and He knew all before He even created the world. Even I knew before I got pregnant that my child would be a joy and a pain- trying me at times, breaking my heart at times, and causing me great joy at times. And God foreknew these things too.
God knows all- past, present, and future.