Blain... it may be helpful for you to think of it in terms of a chess game, for there are only so many possible moves at the beginning of any game, and each move in turn eliminates a number of choices. At any given moment, God is completely aware of the moves that are open to you, and as you make another choice, again, He is aware of the moves that remain available to you. He sees every possible end to the game at every single move, from the beginning to the end. That He sees the end does not mean He is dictating your moves.
Open Theism? What is really being said?
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If God did not allow things, we would have to take the view (as some do) that every evil act that any human perpetrates upon another is the express will of God. We know this cannot be true, for God does not cause men to sin, nor does He even desire it! It is an abhorrent view to say that everything that happens is the will of God. We can acknowledge His sovereign will without taking it to that despicable extreme. We can also see His moral will for us in the commandments, which reflect His desire for how we are to live. That He allows us to make choices can easily be seen as His permissive will. Evil is retrained in this world through the working of the Holy Spirit, and thank God for that 
My point is simple... why not just study God's Word???
Start with Truth and avoid deception altogether...
Well, excuse me... I was not aware that I was dealing with the world's foremost authority on end times happenings!
So, whassup wit all dat horn tootin anyway... who are you trying to convince???
That still does not mean one is paying attention to God's warnings as they pertain to our personal relationship with Him.
Big difference between that and studying prophecy.
ONly because they repented...
Start with Truth and avoid deception altogether...
Well, excuse me... I was not aware that I was dealing with the world's foremost authority on end times happenings!
So, whassup wit all dat horn tootin anyway... who are you trying to convince???
That still does not mean one is paying attention to God's warnings as they pertain to our personal relationship with Him.
Big difference between that and studying prophecy.
ONly because they repented...
And my point is also simple, to start with truth you must first seek it which is why I said studying this was not pointless
I do not claim to be any such thing There plenty on here who are more insightful in the this stuff than I. And I was not tooting my own horn or trying to convince anyone I was making a point. Never assume you know the hearts of others especially when you don't even know them.
Well, excuse me... I was not aware that I was dealing with the world's foremost authority on end times happenings!
So, whassup wit all dat horn tootin anyway... who are you trying to convince???
That still does not mean one is paying attention to God's warnings as they pertain to our personal relationship with Him.
Big difference between that and studying prophecy.
So, whassup wit all dat horn tootin anyway... who are you trying to convince???
That still does not mean one is paying attention to God's warnings as they pertain to our personal relationship with Him.
Big difference between that and studying prophecy.
Look at one of the statements in the "definition" posted. It says that "God does not know what we will freely do in the future". If this is true then it means that God is not Sovereign due to "limited omnipotence" which in itself is a cotradictory phrase. In His Sovereignty God knows everything that has happened, is happening and will happen. Though He allows us to make choices He knows every choice we make and the outcome of the choice which leads to other possabilities which He also knows. There is nothing that can happen that God "did not see coming". If there is any possability that we can choose something that God didnt know about then He is not omnipotent which also means He is not Sovereign.
Good question: did God know before hand and had really fore-ordained that He would change His mind about something that He said originally would be done?
Trying to figure out the omniscience of God with our finite human minds is most likely a waste of time and effort. His ways and thoughts are higher then our ways and thoughts as the heavens are higher then the earth.
How far above earth is the farthest galaxy? The new record holder is the galaxy MACS0647-JD, which is about 13.3 billion light-years away.
So, we in our own human thinking and reasoning can be off by 13.3 billion light years. Selah.
No wonder Paul says "Those who think the know something - don't know it as we ought to."
Yes i argued that point in my first post in this thread, i said i don't think he does not know the future rather he allows things because if he didn't know the future then you are correct it would be extremely contradictory however as I spoke of in my speaking of adam and even and the fall of man God obviously knew what was going to happen and could have prevented it but he allowed for mankind to choose. To me this is very profound
That is an amazing way of explaining it
That God knows the end from the beginning does not mean He is dictating our moves, just that He is aware. It is easy for us to always put God "out there" somewhere, too, but He lives within each one of us. He tabernacles with us, and in this way He is plugged in and not some bystander trying to figure out what we are doing as if from an outsider's perspective. There are passages that might make God look this way, for instance, after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, and God asked Adam, where are you? But God says all He does for our benefit, just as Jesus always did. God was letting Adam know that he was lost (Adam, not God). God knew exactly where Adam was and what he had done. I believe He allows us to make these choices so that we discover through our own trials that His way really is best. We are given the chance to voluntarily align ourselves with the will of God, or reject Him and His ways. Those who reject Him pass out of life, into the second death. Check mate!
Thank you! I used to play chess, and it is actually mind boggling how many moves are possible at the beginning of any game. There is no way for us to know, and keep track of every single possibility open to us, but God does That God knows the end from the beginning does not mean He is dictating our moves, just that He is aware. It is easy for us to always put God "out there" somewhere, too, but He lives within each one of us. He tabernacles with us, and in this way He is plugged in and not some bystander trying to figure out what we are doing as if from an outsider's perspective.
There are passages that might make God look this way, for instance, after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, and God asked Adam, where are you? But God says all He does for our benefit, just as Jesus always did. God was letting Adam know that he was lost (Adam, not God). God knew exactly where Adam was and what he had done. I believe He allows us to make these choices so that we discover through our own trials that His way really is best. We are given the chance to voluntarily align ourselves with the will of God, or reject Him and His ways. Those who reject Him pass out of life, into the second death. Check mate!
View attachment 169527
That God knows the end from the beginning does not mean He is dictating our moves, just that He is aware. It is easy for us to always put God "out there" somewhere, too, but He lives within each one of us. He tabernacles with us, and in this way He is plugged in and not some bystander trying to figure out what we are doing as if from an outsider's perspective. There are passages that might make God look this way, for instance, after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, and God asked Adam, where are you? But God says all He does for our benefit, just as Jesus always did. God was letting Adam know that he was lost (Adam, not God). God knew exactly where Adam was and what he had done. I believe He allows us to make these choices so that we discover through our own trials that His way really is best. We are given the chance to voluntarily align ourselves with the will of God, or reject Him and His ways. Those who reject Him pass out of life, into the second death. Check mate!
View attachment 169527
Exactly Though Him knowing the end from the beginning does not mean He is dictating what we will do. That would make us all a bunch of puppets, which is not what we are... we are exhorted to make choices based upon what we know is right according to God. The work of God and the Holy Spirit in us is to bring us to belief in Him the sacrifice of Jesus, due to His great love for us, upon the cross of Calvary, where He poured out His righteous blood to pay the sin debt of the world. Once we accept that, the walking out of our faith becomes a life long process of learning to trust Him above all else.
Though Him knowing the end from the beginning does not mean He is dictating what we will do. That would make us all a bunch of puppets, which is not what we are... we are exhorted to make choices based upon what we know is right according to God. The work of God and the Holy Spirit in us is to bring us to belief in Him the sacrifice of Jesus, due to His great love for us, upon the cross of Calvary, where He poured out His righteous blood to pay the sin debt of the world. Once we accept that, the walking out of our faith becomes a life long process of learning to trust Him above all else.
Thank you! I used to play chess, and it is actually mind boggling how many moves are possible at the beginning of any game. There is no way for us to know, and keep track of every single possibility open to us, but God does That God knows the end from the beginning does not mean He is dictating our moves, just that He is aware. It is easy for us to always put God "out there" somewhere, too, but He lives within each one of us. He tabernacles with us, and in this way He is plugged in and not some bystander trying to figure out what we are doing as if from an outsider's perspective.
There are passages that might make God look this way, for instance, after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, and God asked Adam, where are you? But God says all He does for our benefit, just as Jesus always did. God was letting Adam know that he was lost (Adam, not God). God knew exactly where Adam was and what he had done. I believe He allows us to make these choices so that we discover through our own trials that His way really is best. We are given the chance to voluntarily align ourselves with the will of God, or reject Him and His ways. Those who reject Him pass out of life, into the second death. Check mate!
View attachment 169527
That God knows the end from the beginning does not mean He is dictating our moves, just that He is aware. It is easy for us to always put God "out there" somewhere, too, but He lives within each one of us. He tabernacles with us, and in this way He is plugged in and not some bystander trying to figure out what we are doing as if from an outsider's perspective. There are passages that might make God look this way, for instance, after Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, and God asked Adam, where are you? But God says all He does for our benefit, just as Jesus always did. God was letting Adam know that he was lost (Adam, not God). God knew exactly where Adam was and what he had done. I believe He allows us to make these choices so that we discover through our own trials that His way really is best. We are given the chance to voluntarily align ourselves with the will of God, or reject Him and His ways. Those who reject Him pass out of life, into the second death. Check mate!
View attachment 169527