OSAS doctrine denies the faith

BradC · May 20, 2015

Jesus, through his death, burial and resurrection obtained an eternal redemption for us and not a temporal one (Heb 9:12) and through that eternal redemption we have an eternal inheritance (v.15). It was not obtained through our repentance or confession of sin but through his own death and for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament.

InSpiritInTruth · May 20, 2015

eternally-gratefull said:

OSAS is the doctrine of men. It denies one can fall away from the faith, which is totally contrary to the words of God concerning the determined falling away from the faith.

Anything that is not of the Truth is a lie.

SeaBass · May 20, 2015

BradC said:

That eternal redemption is for a group that is called "Christian" and is not for any particular individual outside of this group. As long as one CONDITIONALLY remains in this group, he will have eternal redemption but if one falls outside of the group he no longer has that eternal redemption but that group still does.

Jason0047 · May 20, 2015

dcontroversal said:

We live in a world where men see us. Granted, if we lived in a world where you were the only one on the planet, then you would have no need to show forth your work to anyone. It would just be you and God. But that is not the case, so we as believers have to show that our faith is true and not false to others. Besides, if God does indeed live within a person, then naturally the fruit of God will be evident within their life. Yes, or no?

JesusIsAll · May 20, 2015

Something I'd thought to maybe do a thread about, then thought, "What's the point?" All the false doctrines on web forums, where there's really no authentic congregation in belief, are much to do about nothing, except to perhaps babes in Christ. But even then, the Spirit sorts these things. One who knows the truth doesn't discard the truth, for lies. One who can't tell the truth from the lies, is grounded in lies, is already lost, demonstrably having no eyes to see or ears to hear. Their use of scripture makes these things painfully obvious.

The point is, nobody is fooled, for long worst case, but those already fooled. Just as it is a waste of time to try and bring truth to somebody who rejects the truth, they waste their time, finding converts to their deceptive and dark agenda, which tries to sow doubt and another gospel. In a way, by the power of the gospel and the Holy Spirit, truth doesn't need incessant defending. When it comes down to it, everybody here knows what a Bible is, nobody, real or fake, not availed of gospel truth, a zillion times. There's no evangelism, as if to the dark continent, going on here.

So, perhaps it's good to bear in mind a lot of what you see are people drawn to a place where they can voice their perverse "gospels," who don't have anybody or anywhere else to go to, many with no real congregation, united in lies. And I've not once seen a Spirit-filled one here, or at any time in real life, return to their vomit, like a dog.

The born from above are quite safe, have eternal life and sanctification, are in the firm hands of the Lord Jesus. And we all know this, by His Spirit, praise our only righteousness before God, His righteousness, the Holy Lord Jesus!

Reborn · May 20, 2015

DCon,
Yet, another thread denying that we are only baptized with the Holy Spirit, ONCE.

These guys preach a God that can't make His mind up, and teases us with the Holy Spirit.
You can't receive the Holy Spirit ......and then lose it, fellas, it doesn't work that way.

It happens.......and He guides you for the rest of your lives.

So sad. If you all want to feel special by thinking you see something in scripture that we can't, we can't stop you.
Stop teaching lies, though...and keep it to yourselves.
These men and their tired arguments, stating that we have a God who is THAT confusing.
Simplicity in Christ.

MarcR · May 20, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

The doctrine of OSAS denies the faith by denying the words of God, which is denying Jesus Christ the very Word of God. Let me explain.

It is written by Grace you are saved through faith, and also in Romans 5:2 “By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. As it is also written, the children of faith are counted for the seed. And we see in Hebrews 11:6 “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”

Just as it is written the just shall live by faith, and we are justified by faith in Jesus Christ, which is also faith in the very Word of God. Just as Jesus said Matthew 4:4 “But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Just as we are to abide in Christ, and in His words by faith.

And this is where the lies of OSAS doctrine begins to be exposed for what it is, which is not of faith in what Gods words say are true.

Not many Christians will argue against salvation not being based on Grace through faith and belief in Jesus Christ. But some believe that faith is not connected or expressed in our own actions or any works on our part. And some even believe one cannot lose that salvation by faith no matter what, leaving the notion wide open that one can sin without any consequence of losing salvation.

This is what Jude warned of in Jude 1:4 “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.”

But if you do not abide in the obedience of the faith, but in unbelief, then how can you please God? After all were not the branches of Israel broken off because of unbelief?

Romans 11:20-22 “Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:[SUP]21 [/SUP]For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.”

That sure sounds like a warning to abide in faith doesn’t it? For we stand by faith, but some say you cannot fall.

Abiding in that faith means abiding in the faith of Jesus, but also abiding in His words by faith, meaning every God breathed word spoken by the Holy Spirit. But again, the error of OSAS denies the words of God by saying you cannot fall from salvation, which is based on faith. But some will say, well if they fall they were never really saved in the first place. But go back to the definition of what saved means in scripture, which is by grace through faith.

But then they might say, well they were never really born again of the Holy Spirit. But the words of God covers that as well in Hebrews 6:4-8 “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[SUP]5 [/SUP]And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,[SUP]6 [/SUP]If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:[SUP]8 [/SUP]But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”

But many will deny these words are true. They will try to twist it’s meaning by saying it is out of context, or a poor translation, or it’s not directed to us, or it’s not in the original text, or your interpreting the scriptures wrong, blah, blah, blah.

But folks, these verses are a warning for those who turn back, and fall away from the faith.
And those who deny those Holy Spirit inspired words, also deny there is to even be a falling away from the faith. And to deny the words of God, is to deny Jesus Christ. Be not deceived by the doctrines of devils.

1 Timothy 4:1 “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;”

Since there is no way to persuade you from Scripture that OSAS is true; because you have rejected idea: the best I can do is show you that yhe alternative is impossible.

Heb 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
KJV
Here we see a clear statement that if it is possible to fall from grace, THERE IS NO WAY BACK.

Jn 2:1 clearly indicates that restoration after sinning is indeed possible; therefore by implication it is impossible to fall from grace.

Utah · May 20, 2015

I was just thinking its been so long since we've had an OSAS debate.

Man, it must be at least two weeks! TWO WEEKS!!!

That's almost an entire decade.

InSpiritInTruth · May 20, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Your trying to make this out to be a salvation by works argument, that is a straw man tactic to misrepresent the thread.

This is about faith, and believing in what the words of God say is true. OSAS denies you can fall away from the faith, but that also denies what the word of God says is true. Thereby denying Jesus Christ.

SeaBass · May 20, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

OSAS has man-made doctrine written all over it for how more convenient can man make it for himself than to give himself a license to sin all he cares to and still be saved?

Jason0047 · May 20, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

I agree. A believer can fall away from the faith. Granted, believers cannot lose their salvation, but they can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away by rebelling against God). In fact,

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)

Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)

The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)

Judas Iscariot (Psalm 41:9) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)

Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17, 18)

Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)

Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14, 15)

Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8, 9, 10)

Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11)

Balaam (Numbers chapters 22, 23, 24) (Numbers 31:8) (Joshua 13:22) (Jude 1:11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45, 46)

Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)

The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14, 15)

Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)

Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)

Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5, 6)

Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)

Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)

Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7, 8)

The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
(James 5:19, 20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).

dcontroversal · May 20, 2015

InSpiritInTruth said:

You know what....verb tenses, clauses, verses in context prove you wrong....the very definition of the words eternal and everlasting prove you wrong...Ecclesiastes 3:11 proves you wrong......the fact that our spirit which has been born again and does not sin makes you wrong....the sealing of the spirit which is our prepayment of our ETERNAL inheritance makes you wrong....no wonder you miss the mark on other things as well....you actually have to be born of the spirit to understand the word.

JesusIsAll · May 20, 2015

Utah said:

It must be the Lord who coined the phrase ad nauseam.

dcontroversal · May 20, 2015

Jason0047 said:

Like many have pointed you...you regularly deceive people by saying that you do not teach a works based salvation...you rely upon yourself and not Jesus.....deceived for sure!

InSpiritInTruth · May 20, 2015

dcontroversal said:

Watch your mouth!

James 1:26
If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Jason0047 · May 20, 2015

Reborn said:

I do not believe in Baptismal Salvation. However, I do believe the Scriptures teach in many other places that there are conditions to doing certain things that can effect a person's spiritual standing with God in the afterlife. For example: You agreed with me before that if you do not forgive, you cannot be forgiven. This is just one of many examples in the Bible that places conditions on a person's good standing with God or not.

Side Note:

Yes, I have been baptized, just in case anyone was wondering.

SeaBass · May 20, 2015

Reborn said:

1) God has promised no one baptism with the HS today, so your argument is based on a faulty premise.

2) God has made up His mind to save those that obey, Heb 5:9 and have vengeance upon those that obey not, 2 Thess 1:8. It is man that must make up his mind to continue obey and not fall back into disobedience.

DesiredHaven · May 20, 2015

I havent ever read into this OSAS personally. I actually had to ask what it was just a handful of years ago because these OSAS abreviations kept popping up every where, and often as against nearly every scripture (or in every topic) whereas I had no clue as to what what OSAS meant or even the concept of the same or why it was quoted at scriptures (when sharing those). And so I had to ask after what I do not like to ask after and simply because these abreviations would end up making it into every post as if always setting themselves against the words of God all the time. Folks were just plain nasty too, sort of in your face about these abreviations who (of themselves) began cutting your ears off to anything they said who assumed I knew about their stuff. Their nastiness, innuendo's, name calling and contentions got so bad I tired of just ignoring it and caved after years of ignoring them and asked. I was told the abreviations they throw around mean "Once saved always saved" (which still didnt mean any more to me) because now its not just an abbreviation but some concept I must concluded all scripture under (according to them) and in the same way they did otherwise Im some kind of enemy of God or something. But thats just the thing, I will not read up on other folks concepts. All I knew was "this concept" in abreviation form was toss at all scripture and stood on its own merit (to certain folks) to refute all things (in their own mind) which often had that had nothing to do with it. I dont read scripture through that conceptional lense. I never heard of the expression and I will typically ignore certain things mens catch phrases in respects to scripture (because thats just how I am) I prefer not to adopt words that are not in scripture for anything. But you could be made an offender over a word in just that.

But Im the same with the trinity, I would rather fully acknowledge the Father, Son and Holy Ghost without concealing them under some conceptional catch phrase, the apostles didnt do that, thers no need to. I find it disrespectful (for me) to do that, but thats how I feel about it in my own concience and that is allowed in our faith and so I do. I dont condemn others that use the word.

I was drilled by a close freind, sort of demanding my answer on this OSAS because after all the years of knowing me he really couldnt tell what I believed on it because he apparently saw me ignoring the thing, whether be acknowledging the abreviations, or the concept or the name calling he couldnt figure out where I stood (with any certainty) I told him the same, I dont see it in the scripture I reject mans abbreviations or concepts and stay with the scriptures. But I havent read up on this OSAS doctrine and I just wont. I just dont read all the teachings of men who are pumping out various abreviated concepts. I dont prefer to read outside the scriptures I try not to come in at angles.

So I havent read up on this OSAS, I only know that after awhile I become someones enemy because I wont jump on this bandwagon and that all kinds of nastiness will begin to flow after that becomes evident.

Jason0047 · May 20, 2015

Long List of Verses Refuting OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved):

Matthew 7:21-23 - Jesus only “knows” those who do Father God’s will; all others are practicing lawlessness.

Matthew 10:33 - Whoever denies Jesus before men He will also deny before His Father in heaven.

Matthew 12:31-32 - Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. This means verbally cursing or speaking bad about the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 13:18-23 - 2 people types (no root, unfruitful) come to eternal life, and then return to the lost state.

Matthew 18:21-35, Mark 11:25-26 - Forgive men’s sins against you, or God won’t forgive your sins against Him.

Matthew 25:44-46 - Those who do not help even one needy soul will go into everlasting punishment.

Mark 8:35-36 - Whoever desires to save his (old) life, or gain the whole world, will lose his soul.

Mark 9:43-48 - Get rid of whatever causes you to sin; it will cause you to be cast into hell fire.

Mark 13:13 - But he who endures with his faith to the end (of his life) shall be saved eternally (Also see Matthew 10:22, Matthew 24:13, Colossians 1:22-23, 1 Timothy 4:16, Hebrews 10:35-39, Revelation 2:10)

Luke 9:23-25 - Whoever does not deny himself for Jesus’ sake will be destroyed (eternal death).

Luke 14:26-33 - Jesus warns prospective believers how difficult and costly it is to be His disciple… will they have enough to finish this life of placing Him above all else, bearing their crosses, etc.?

Luke 18:9-14 - Jesus taught that the man who was more justified was the one who humbled himself and cried out to God for mercy before God vs. the man who did not do so.

John 3:19, 20 - An important point about "The Condemnation" is that those who loved darkness hate the Light because they loved the pleasure of their own evil deeds, unless of course their deeds should be reproved (that is).

John 12:25 - He who loves his life in this world will lose it (eternal life) later.

John 15:1-6 - Christians who do not bear fruit (are not abiding in Jesus) are thrown into the fire.

John 17:3 - Eternal life is actually “knowing” Father God and Jesus Christ. Do you really know them?

Romans 1:29-32 - Anyone practicing such sins is deserving of death due to God’s wrath on unrighteousness.

Romans 2:5-11 - Wrath is coming to those who are unrighteously self-seeking and do not obey the truth.

Rom 6:15-23 - Be a slave of God and to righteousness for holiness, resulting in holiness and eternal life.

Romans 8:1-8 - Anyone who is carnally-minded (is living according to the flesh) will die spiritually.

Romans 8:12-13 - We are not debtors to the flesh; if we live according to the flesh, we will die.

Romans 11:20-22 - Fear unbelief, that if you do not continue to have faith, you will be cut off like the OT Jews.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - Anyone practicing such sins is unrighteous, and will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 15:2 - You are saved, if you hold fast to that word (the gospel) … unless you believed in vain.

2 Corinthians 7:10 - Godly sorrow over sin leads Christians to repent, which leads to salvation.

2 Corinthians 13:5 - Examine and test yourself to see if you are in the faith, unless you are disqualified.

Galatians 5:1-4 - Christians are warned: those who later have attempted to be justified by law, … have been estranged from Christ and have fallen from grace.

Galatians 5:19-21 - Anyone practicing such sins (the works of the flesh) will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:24 - Those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:7-8 - Don't be deceived: sowing to the flesh reaps corruption, sowing to the Spirit reaps eternal life.

Ephesians 5:3-6 - Believers practicing such sins will not inherit God’s kingdom, but will incur the wrath of God.

Ephesians 5:25-27 - Jesus gave Himself for a glorious Church which will be sanctified, holy, without blemish.

Philippians 2:12-16 - Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, holding fast the word of life …
… so that: (1) you may become blameless, and (2) Paul did not labor in vain concerning you.

Philippians 3:7-14 - Paul presses on to attaining the goal of gaining Christ, knowing Him, and being found in Him.

Colossians 1:21-29 - Jesus’ desires (and Paul labors to warn and teach) to present “holy and blameless” and “perfect in Christ Jesus” those who continue in faith, not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

Colossians 3:5-6 - Believers practicing such sins beware: the wrath of God will come upon sons of disobedience.

1 Timothy 4:1 - Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith.

1 Timothy 5:11-15 - Some younger widows are condemned; they cast off their first faith and turned after Satan.

1 Timothy 6:3-4 - Paul says that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Christ is proud knowing nothing.

1 Timothy 6:9-14 - Greed and love of money drowns men in destruction and perdition; Instead, pursue godliness and lay hold on eternal life (and keep this command without blame).

1 Timothy 6:17-19 - Commands for the rich (yes, Christians) to follow, so they may lay hold on eternal life.

Titus 1:1-3 - Faith and knowledge of the truth lead to godliness, in the hope of eternal life.

Hebrews 2:1-4 - Warning about drifting away: how shall we escape, if we drift and neglect so great a salvation?

Hebrews 3:6 - We belong to Christ, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

Hebrews 3:12-15 - Beware of an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God, being hardened through the deceitfulness of sin, for we are only partakers of Christ if we hold steadfast to the end.

Hebrews 3:17-19 - The OT Jews who sinned (did not obey) could not enter into God’s rest (the Promised Land).

Hebrews 4:1 - Let us fear lest any of us come short of entering God’s rest (God’s promise of salvation).

Hebrews 4:11 - Be diligent to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall according to the OT example of disobedience.

Hebrews 6:4-8 - Those enlightened and partakers of the Holy Spirit who fall away will be rejected and burned.

Hebrews 10:26-27 - If we sin willfully after receiving knowledge of the truth, expect God’s fiery judgment.

Hebrews 10:29-31 - The Lord will judge His people. “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay”, says the Lord.

Hebrews 10:35-39 - Endure in the faith, and do not be like those who draw back to perdition.

Hebrews 12:14-15 - Pursue holiness (w/o which no one will see the Lord) lest anyone falls short of God’s grace.

Hebrews 12:15-17 - Many believers become defiled, and finding no place for repentance, are rejected.

James 1:12-16 - Love the Lord, endure temptation to sin; do not be deceived, sin results in spiritual death.

1 Peter 1:8-9 - Believing, you will receive the end of your (enduring) faith—the salvation of your souls.

2 Peter 1:10-11 - Be diligent to make your call & election sure, so you won’t stumble, but gain the kingdom.

2 Peter 2:1, 14 - The false prophets (i.e. believers) are those who have eyes full of adultery and cannot cease from sin.

2 Peter 2:20-22 - If Christians are overcome by worldly sins, they are worse off than they were before knowing the way of righteousness, they turned from the holy commandment delivered to them.

1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, God will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:3-5 - We are sure that we “know” God and are “in” Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 2:24-25 - If God’s word does not abide in us, the Father and the Son will not abide in us, nor we in Them, and we will not receive the promised eternal life.

1 John 3:15 - If you hate your brother, you’re like a murderer who has no eternal life abiding in him.

Jude 1:4 NIV - There are those false believers who turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality

Jude 1:20-21 - 3 things for Christians to do, while looking for God’s mercy unto eternal life.

Revelation 2:10 - Be faithful until death and Jesus will give you the crown of (eternal) life (Also see Mark 13:13above).

Revelation 2:11 - He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death (eternal death).

Revelation 3:5 - He who overcomes will not have his name blotted out from the Book of Life.

Revelation 14:9-11 - Those that worship the Beast and take his mark drink of the wine of the Wrath of God and will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

Revelation 21:8 - Anyone practicing such sins will go into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

Revelation 21:27 - Anyone practicing such sins is not in the Book of Life, and will not enter the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 22:14 - Anyone who does not do God’s commandments does not have the right to the tree of life.

Revelation 22:15 - Anyone practicing such sins will be outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

Revelation 22:18 - If any man takes away from the prophecy of the book (i.e. the Scriptures), God will take away their name out of the Book of Life.

Source Used:
Your handy-dandy long list of verses against OSAS - BaptistBoard.com

SeaBass · May 20, 2015

MarcR said:

Acts 8, Simon became a Christian, fell away by trying to buy the power of the HS yet was told lby Peter he could repent and be restored.
Jesus commanded some of the 7 churches in Asia to repent or be lost. Why the command if it were not possible?

OSAS doctrine denies the faith

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