PERFECT IN GOD'S EYES

joaniemarie · Sep 20, 2017

The reason the Holy Spirit's ministry to us is to convict us believers of our righteousness is because WE NEED TO REMEMBER WHO WE REALLY ARE. Many believers today are falling victim to the enemy of our souls who uses condemnation and guilt and shame when Jesus has paid for all those issues.

The Holy Spirit is our Paraclete who guides, directs., comforts., teaches, exhorts. He never condemns. That is the devil's job., Not the Holy Spirit. He always points us to Jesus and our righteousness IN Christ. That is why we need to be convicted of our right standing. We are human and frail in these flesh bodies. We easily succumb to guilt and negativity and the devil knows this about us. The world is full of sin and misery. But we are salt and light in the darkness. (or we should be) But if the enemy can make us feel guilt and shame we will soon forget we were already cleansed. And many believers walk around like they were never born again.
We live powerless lives because we believe the condemnation is coming from God. We have not believed in the truth.

So you see Nehemiah, there is a drastic need for the body of Christ to know the truth so they can be set free. Those who the Son has set free is free indeed. Amen!!

joaniemarie · Sep 20, 2017

Here is some Bible commentary about 1 Cor. 11:27- Concerning communion. I hope you read it and get blessed as I have been over the years.

There have been many interpretations of just what qualifies as “unworthily.” A severe interpretation would suggest that any deed or thought in a person’s life that has not been confessed and repented of would make that individual unworthy. Since the Scripture says “whatsoever is not of faith is sin” (Romans 14:23), very few people would ever qualify as worthy to partake of communion. Plus, this would make our relationship with the Lord in communion dependent on our performance, and this is contrary to the very act of atonement that the Lord’s Supper reminds us of.

It is most likely that what makes people worthy or unworthy is whether or not they have been born again (see note 2 at John 3:3). This would also be totally consistent with the doctrine of grace that Paul constantly preached (see note 2 at Romans 3:22 and note 11 at Romans 4:8). There were unbelievers among the true Christians, just as Jesus prophesied (see note 1 at Matthew 13:37), and this still exists today. It is a dangerous offense for an unbeliever to take the Lord’s Supper (see note 2 at Luke 22:19).

People who profess salvation through partaking of communion yet do not possess it, because true faith is not present, become guilty of the body and blood of the Lord (this verse). Those people will not be able to claim ignorance when they stand before God. The Lord’s Supper clearly preaches the Gospel.

Therefore, when taking communion, the people should examine themselves (see note 9 at 1 Corinthians 11:28) to see whether or not they are in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). It is an individual evaluation that ministers are not authorized to make for others, but ministers should make Paul’s warnings here in 1 Corinthians 11 known to others when administering communion.
Note 8 at 1 Corinthians 11:27:

This warning about being “guilty of the body and blood of the Lord” has caused fear in the hearts of many believers. They fear that if they aren’t just right when they partake of communion, they may be damned (1 Corinthians 11:29). This is inconsistent with all of Paul’s other teachings about relationship with the Lord through grace (see notes 1 and 2 at Romans 5:1, note 15 at Romans 5:8, and note 16 at Romans 5:9).

We Christians do not partake of the Lord’s Supper unworthily, even if we have sin in our lives (see note 7 at this verse). If we truly worship the Lord through communion, we have to do that in spirit and in truth (John 4:24), and our born-again spirits are perfect (see note 3 at Matthew 26:41 and note 11 at Romans 4:8), regardless of how our flesh is (see note 3 at Romans 7:18). The apparent problems with this verse are removed when “unworthily” is interpreted as referring to those who are not born again (see note 2 at John 3:3).

Paul was saying that those who are not saved yet partake of communion are professing a lie (see note 5 at 1 Corinthians 11:26). As Jesus said, “If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth” (John 9:41). Judgment is easier on those who are ignorant (see note 5 at Luke 12:48), but those who take communion cannot claim ignorance. If they partake of the Lord’s Supper “unworthily” (i.e., not born again), those people become without excuse. They are guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Andrew Wommack

PeterJens · Sep 20, 2017

When we repent of our sins, individually repented of our sins as far as we know,
and commited ourselves to follow Gods way, accepting the cross for the forgiveness
of sins we are perfect, pure, Holy, clean in Gods sight, purified of all defilement.

Some think that actually this is impossible, the only thing we can be is sinners who
are viewed by the veil of Christ, so God only sees Christ and not us.

This is clearly a man made invention, because God sees our sin and rebukes us for it,
sending warnings to resolve our behaviour. He could never do this, if His view was
obscured by Christ.

So here we have an impossibility but it comforts people to follow this delusion of covering,
so no matter what they do, God will not take offence and leave.

He is like a pet who is easily offended, but the friend you know keeps Him happy.
This is such heresy of attitude and approach I wonder why believer are so easily deceived.

It sounds a bit like Jesus, but if you have no alternative and you know of Christ, I suppose it
does fit the ideas for a time.

7seasrekeyed · Sep 20, 2017

PeterJens said:

I'm more concerned about this:

the Holy Spirit convicts believers of righteousness. another handy dandy teaching of Prince

apparently, Prince has overwritten the meaning of conviction and has implied it is a gracious word meant to encourage

convict, however, never sounds good coming from a jury

MarcR · Sep 20, 2017

7seasrekeyed said:

The word convict has the primary meaning of convince or persuade; hence our convictions are our most firmly held beliefs.

Only in a judicial sense does convict mean find guilty.

seed_time_harvest · Sep 20, 2017

Before JESUS came and died on the cross,the only way man could be righteous before Almighty GOD was to do everything In the law perfectly and ALL men were counted as coming up short of the glory of GOD.

AND being righteous outwardly was not acceptable to GOD.Remember a person would have to be perfect not only In what they said but perfect In thought also and no man could be perfect.JESUS was fully GOD and he was also fully man.

The first man gave his power over the earth to satin but JESUS fulfilled the law perfectly In TRUTH and took back the power as a man and gave grace to whosoever would believe In the WORD of GOD.sin shall not have dominion,GOD's will be done.amen

PeterJens · Sep 21, 2017

seed_time_harvest said:

We miss power and authority in the Kingdom because often we speak in unbelief.
Jesus could not have meant ....... because it is too hard, or we continually fail.

Before Jesus came and died, knowing God was still the same through faith and obedience.

What Jesus brought was the Holy of hollies came and dwelt in our hearts.
Before the kingdom was external, not filled with the Holy Spirit or the spiritual gifts, not
us being one with God. Communion was via the temple and priests and sacrifices.

Now it is with our prayers, and praise and worship.

7seasrekeyed · Sep 21, 2017

MarcR said:

the primary meaning is to convict of being guilty which is why the Holy Spirit is said to convict the world of sin

we are to renew our minds according to what God says about us

perhaps someone can illustrate prince's meaning from the actual Bible instead of his own particular method of interpretation

princes method is to talk to people as though they know nothing of grace or God's love. he will go on and on about the 'suffering' of believers and the disappointing lives they have. well you know, some probably do because they have not followed the doctrines of the Bible and so prince comes along and tries to let everyone off the hook of obedience to the word by saying 'it's all good'

that, is part of why people disagree with his 'easy believeism and cheap grace'

further, people argue back and forth about whether or not the Holy Spirit convicts believers of their sin

over and over

people who follow this man, will argue that obedience is a work and does not save you

you can try to illustrate that works are part of why we are saved, document it from scripture to no avail. this has been illustrated in the not by works thread to the tune of almost 2000 pages. you can agree that works or obedience do not save you also, but it is like their eyes have glazed over and they go on and on about how wrong you are IN SPITE OF THE FACT you say that you know works or obedience do not save you.

honestly, when YOU hear the word convict, do you assume righteousness?

this is just one facet of prince's teaching. he twists scripture to the point of people thinking the words of Christ are not really for us because we are in a New Covenant.

maybe actually learn what the man teaches as you already said you are not familiar with him

frankly, the expression 'when something sounds too good to be true, it most likely isn't true' would apply quite well to teaching of prince IMO

7seasrekeyed · Sep 21, 2017

(1) The simple difference between the Holy Spirit convicting us of sin and the Accuser of the Brethren accusing us of sin is this: The Holy Spirit is telling the truth and the devil is lying! When conviction of the Holy Spirit comes, it is for the purpose of being liberated from sin and condemnation through repentance; when the Accuser comes, it is for the purpose of slandering the innocent. So, simple rule of thumb: if you have sin in your life, the devil has no need to slander you. If you don’t, the devil has EVERY reason to slander and accuse you!
(2) The Holy Spirit CLEARLY convicts us of sin for the following reasons:

Both the Father (Hebrews 12:5-9) and Jesus (Revelation 3:19) convict us of sin and the Holy Spirit is a witness for both of them (John 15:26).
The scriptures themselves convict us of sin (Hebrews 4:12-13) and the Holy Spirit teaches us the Word of God (John 14:26).
Believers are instructed by Jesus to carry out church discipline and a sinning member is “convicted” by two or three witnesses (Matthew 18:15-17). If it’s appropriate for church people to do these things, then how much MORE appropriate is it when God Himself does it through the Holy Spirit?
Apostle Paul, by inspiration of the Holy Ghost (II Peter 1:21), instructed both Timothy (II Timothy 4:2) and Titus (Titus 1:13 & 2:15) to confront, rebuke, correct, and convince rebel church members of sin and false doctrine; therefore, if it is appropriate for conviction of sin to come through man by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, then conviction of sin is a work of the Holy Spirit
The human conscience is where conviction of sin takes place (John 8:9; Romans 2:15; etc.) and the Holy Spirit speaks to man through his conscience (Romans 9:1; I John 2:20); therefore, when man needs to repent, conviction of the Holy Spirit takes place
The Bible plainly states that the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin (John 16:8-11—Please see my notes under the next point for further clarity on these verses)

(3) It is true—a work of the Holy Spirit is to convict us of our righteousness in Christ; it is not true however, that the Holy Spirit convicts us of how righteous we are WHEN WE SIN! He may convict us of our PURPOSE for righteousness and our POTENTIAL for righteousness; but He is the Spirit of Truth and will not flatter us into a false sense of righteousness.

Quote #39:

“When He [Jesus] said that the Holy Spirit would come to ‘convict the world of sin’ [John 16:8] because they do not believe in Him, it is clear that He was referring to unbelievers because they are of ‘the world.’ And notice that the Holy Spirit does not convict the world of ‘sins’ (plural). It is only one ‘sin’ (singular) that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of, and that is the sin of unbelief, the sin of rejecting Jesus and not believing in His finished work…So the Holy Spirit is present to convict unbelievers of that one sin of unbelief…”

Chapter 11, pages 136-137

NOTE: Let’s look at John 16:8-11:

“And when He [the Holy Spirit] has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.”

Note the following points:
(1)The “world” does not and CANNOT refer exclusively to unbelievers in this statement and CAN ONLY refer to all men/all mankind for the following reasons:

Though the term “the world” can be used to refer to the world system characterized in unbelievers (I John 2:15), the term “the world” is used in other scriptures to signify all mankind (see John 3:16).
“Conviction of sin”, “conviction of righteousness” and “conviction of judgment” are three separate categories of conviction directed at ONE audience: “the world.” Why would the Holy Spirit EXCLUSIVELY convict unbelievers of sin, righteousness and judgment—and leave the believers “un-convicted” in these areas? On the same token, why would the Holy Spirit EXCLUSIVELY convict believers of sin, righteousness and judgment—and leave UNbelievers UNconvicted and UNevangelized. The only logical and biblically-consistent conclusion is that the world refers to all mankind.
Both believers and unbelievers experience conviction by the Holy Spirit in all three areas.
The term “the world” is used to give distinction to the idea that conviction of the Holy Spirit is for ALL men (Gentiles included), and not just an exclusively Jewish audience.

(2) This verse is not implying the Holy Spirit convicts the world of one sin ONLY—as Pastor Prince puts it, “the sin of rejecting Jesus and not believing in His finished work.” A believer/unbeliever can experience conviction from ANY and ALL sin—so what does this mean?
The term “sin” is singular because it is ONE category that includes a MILLION-BILLION things! This verse is not saying the only sin (or the only sin that matters) that the Holy Spirit convicts us of is the sin of not believing in Jesus! It is saying all sin is ROOTED in unbelief. The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin “BECAUSE they do not believe in Me”. In other words, it is not saying the Holy Spirit convicts us of the sin of unbelief and rejecting Jesus (though technically true); it is saying the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin BECAUSE of unbelief and rejecting Jesus!

Quote #40:

“If the Holy Spirit never convicts you the believer of your sins, then what does He convict you of? Jesus says that the Holy Spirit convicts you “of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more”. Now who is Jesus talking about here? Believers or unbelievers? Clearly, with the use of the second person pronoun “you”, Jesus was referring to believers. The Holy Spirit was sent to convict believers of righteousness.”

Chapter 11, page 137

NOTE: Jesus is talking about believers AND unbelievers, as explained in the previous point. The use of the second person pronoun “you” simply means “you the audience” are included in “the world” to whom the Holy Spirit convicts.
The Holy Spirit convicts both believers and unbelievers alike of sin (wrong-doing based in unbelief) and righteousness (right doing, right living, the vanity of man’s righteousness apart from God, Christ our Righteousness, etc.) Jesus did not change audiences mid-sentence.
SOURCE

so prince has to throw out all of the above to come up with someone like the Holy Spirit convicts of righteousness

that, IMO, is nonsense

we ARE righteous in Christ. people don't study their Bibles and prince takes advantage of it

Rosemaryx · Sep 21, 2017

joaniemarie said:

Hi joaniemarie...Your post here is so true...I truly had my faith tested three nights ago when I was rushed to hospital with blue lights all the way...I have SVT and my heart went out of sync, 205 beats per min, as I was laying in the ambulance I could feel my hands going numb and I was becoming cold due to lack of oxygen, the devil was having fun putting the worst fears on top of my own fears, but then I just kept calling on the name of our Lord Jesus, and before I knew it my mind was totally flooded with His peace, my body was doing one thing while my mind was fixed on our Lord

. I had no panic whatsoever and Scripture was just rolling in my mind, God telling me to be still, Jesus reminding me that He is with me right here right now, then half way to the hospital the ambulance jumped up and told the driver to pull over, he could not believe what happened, my heart had jumped back into sync and ALL my stats went straight back to normal, by the time I got to hospital I was well enough to get of the trolley and use the toilet...I told the ambulance man that there is power in the name of Jesus, and know for sure that the peace off the Lord was with me, I love Him so much it brings tears to my eyes...Praise God...\o/...xox...

Rosemaryx · Sep 21, 2017

7seasrekeyed said:

(1) The simple difference between the Holy Spirit convicting us of sin and the Accuser of the Brethren accusing us of sin is this: The Holy Spirit is telling the truth and the devil is lying! When conviction of the Holy Spirit comes, it is for the purpose of being liberated from sin and condemnation through repentance; when the Accuser comes, it is for the purpose of slandering the innocent. So, simple rule of thumb: if you have sin in your life, the devil has no need to slander you. If you don’t, the devil has EVERY reason to slander and accuse you!
(2) The Holy Spirit CLEARLY convicts us of sin for the following reasons:

Both the Father (Hebrews 12:5-9) and Jesus (Revelation 3:19) convict us of sin and the Holy Spirit is a witness for both of them (John 15:26).
The scriptures themselves convict us of sin (Hebrews 4:12-13) and the Holy Spirit teaches us the Word of God (John 14:26).
Believers are instructed by Jesus to carry out church discipline and a sinning member is “convicted” by two or three witnesses (Matthew 18:15-17). If it’s appropriate for church people to do these things, then how much MORE appropriate is it when God Himself does it through the Holy Spirit?
Apostle Paul, by inspiration of the Holy Ghost (II Peter 1:21), instructed both Timothy (II Timothy 4:2) and Titus (Titus 1:13 & 2:15) to confront, rebuke, correct, and convince rebel church members of sin and false doctrine; therefore, if it is appropriate for conviction of sin to come through man by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, then conviction of sin is a work of the Holy Spirit
The human conscience is where conviction of sin takes place (John 8:9; Romans 2:15; etc.) and the Holy Spirit speaks to man through his conscience (Romans 9:1; I John 2:20); therefore, when man needs to repent, conviction of the Holy Spirit takes place
The Bible plainly states that the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin (John 16:8-11—Please see my notes under the next point for further clarity on these verses)

(3) It is true—a work of the Holy Spirit is to convict us of our righteousness in Christ; it is not true however, that the Holy Spirit convicts us of how righteous we are WHEN WE SIN! He may convict us of our PURPOSE for righteousness and our POTENTIAL for righteousness; but He is the Spirit of Truth and will not flatter us into a false sense of righteousness.

Quote #39:

“When He [Jesus] said that the Holy Spirit would come to ‘convict the world of sin’ [John 16:8] because they do not believe in Him, it is clear that He was referring to unbelievers because they are of ‘the world.’ And notice that the Holy Spirit does not convict the world of ‘sins’ (plural). It is only one ‘sin’ (singular) that the Holy Spirit convicts the world of, and that is the sin of unbelief, the sin of rejecting Jesus and not believing in His finished work…So the Holy Spirit is present to convict unbelievers of that one sin of unbelief…”

Chapter 11, pages 136-137

NOTE: Let’s look at John 16:8-11:

“And when He [the Holy Spirit] has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.”

Note the following points:
(1)The “world” does not and CANNOT refer exclusively to unbelievers in this statement and CAN ONLY refer to all men/all mankind for the following reasons:

Though the term “the world” can be used to refer to the world system characterized in unbelievers (I John 2:15), the term “the world” is used in other scriptures to signify all mankind (see John 3:16).
“Conviction of sin”, “conviction of righteousness” and “conviction of judgment” are three separate categories of conviction directed at ONE audience: “the world.” Why would the Holy Spirit EXCLUSIVELY convict unbelievers of sin, righteousness and judgment—and leave the believers “un-convicted” in these areas? On the same token, why would the Holy Spirit EXCLUSIVELY convict believers of sin, righteousness and judgment—and leave UNbelievers UNconvicted and UNevangelized. The only logical and biblically-consistent conclusion is that the world refers to all mankind.
Both believers and unbelievers experience conviction by the Holy Spirit in all three areas.
The term “the world” is used to give distinction to the idea that conviction of the Holy Spirit is for ALL men (Gentiles included), and not just an exclusively Jewish audience.

(2) This verse is not implying the Holy Spirit convicts the world of one sin ONLY—as Pastor Prince puts it, “the sin of rejecting Jesus and not believing in His finished work.” A believer/unbeliever can experience conviction from ANY and ALL sin—so what does this mean?
The term “sin” is singular because it is ONE category that includes a MILLION-BILLION things! This verse is not saying the only sin (or the only sin that matters) that the Holy Spirit convicts us of is the sin of not believing in Jesus! It is saying all sin is ROOTED in unbelief. The Holy Spirit convicts the world of sin “BECAUSE they do not believe in Me”. In other words, it is not saying the Holy Spirit convicts us of the sin of unbelief and rejecting Jesus (though technically true); it is saying the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin BECAUSE of unbelief and rejecting Jesus!

Quote #40:

“If the Holy Spirit never convicts you the believer of your sins, then what does He convict you of? Jesus says that the Holy Spirit convicts you “of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more”. Now who is Jesus talking about here? Believers or unbelievers? Clearly, with the use of the second person pronoun “you”, Jesus was referring to believers. The Holy Spirit was sent to convict believers of righteousness.”

Chapter 11, page 137

NOTE: Jesus is talking about believers AND unbelievers, as explained in the previous point. The use of the second person pronoun “you” simply means “you the audience” are included in “the world” to whom the Holy Spirit convicts.
The Holy Spirit convicts both believers and unbelievers alike of sin (wrong-doing based in unbelief) and righteousness (right doing, right living, the vanity of man’s righteousness apart from God, Christ our Righteousness, etc.) Jesus did not change audiences mid-sentence.
SOURCE

so prince has to throw out all of the above to come up with someone like the Holy Spirit convicts of righteousness

that, IMO, is nonsense

we ARE righteous in Christ. people don't study their Bibles and prince takes advantage of it

Hi 7...I really believe the Lord convicts me when I have done something wrong, not so much of late as I am growing in Him, but in my 1st year I was always messing up because I was still walking so much in the flesh, still drinking when I should not of been, going places I should not be going, basically still walking in the world...Then I noticed whenever I done something wrong, the Holy Spirit would remind me, at first I felt my peace was missing, I even felt my joy had gone, and when I started reading the word , I see so many things I was still doing and the Holy Spirit led me to repent from these things, to tell from my lips and say "Yes Lord, I have been wrong, lead me Lord as in You I will put these things behind me "...Sometimes in them days, I felt God convicting me alot, it made me cry to Him, Godly sorrow not worldly sorrow, His conviction brought me forward to His truth...Now from them days I have come to know that if I feel the peace of the Lord is at a distance, I know I have to check my self, go over what I have been doing and find where I have sinned or said something I should not of said...Without Him convicting us, we would walk blindly, in ignorance falling into pits...Today I walk in the Peace of the Lord, but as soon as that peace feels gone just a little, then I know our Lord is telling me something...xox...

7seasrekeyed · Sep 21, 2017

Rosemaryx said:

we have a conscience and many have an overblown condemnatory conscience for one reason or another

as has been expressed by some, and what I agree with, is that the devil makes us feel guilty while the Holy Spirit makes us ummm...'uncomfortable'

you know, at times when I should apologize or correct my own behavior, I can honestly say it is more like the Holy Spirit is saying something along the lines of 'excuse me...but there is something you need to take care of...' and I know what it is

if the accusations come, they are not from God. you don't grow, even as a person, with constant negative feedback. the devil has nothing positive to add to anyone's growth. he's a bottomless pit of accusatory suggestions and accusations

when you run across a person acting in that manner, you can be sure they are probably feeling the same as they would like to make you feel

the flip side of that, is that some people will try to make others look worse so they can feel better

bottom line: the devil invented psychological warfare

Nehemiah6 · Sep 21, 2017

7seasrekeyed said:

Absolutely correct. That is why Joseph Prince can be fairly called a false teacher, because he claims that the Holy Spirit will convict the believer of righteousness (his other errors have also been addressed by myself). That is both ludicrous and unscriptural. While the KJV uses the word "reprove" in John 16:8, the modern versions use the word "convict" but the meaning remains clear -- He will convict the world of sin, which means He will convict every person who hears the true Gospel that he is a sinner. He will also convince the sinner that he needs the Savior.

King James Bible
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

American Standard Version
And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

New American Standard Bible
"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
When He comes, He will convict the world about sin, righteousness, and judgment:

Young's Literal Translation
and having come, He will convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment;

Strong's Concordance

elegchó: to expose, convict, reprove

Original Word: ἐλέγχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: elegchó
Phonetic Spelling: (el-eng'-kho)
Short Definition: I rebuke, expose
Definition: (a) I reprove, rebuke, discipline, (b) I expose, show to be guilty.

MarcR · Sep 21, 2017

7seasrekeyed said:

the primary meaning is to convict of being guilty which is why the Holy Spirit is said to convict the world of sin

Jn 16:7-11
7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you.
8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment:
9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me;
10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer;
11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
ESV

Certainly you do not suggest that the Holy Spirit finds the world guilty of righteousness

7seasrekeyed · Sep 21, 2017

that's the ESV you are using. other translations do not agree with the way it appears and appears to you apparently

v. 8 is speaking of GOD'S righteousness...not the Holy Spirit convicting us of righteousness

in fact, some translations read convict the world of God's righteousness

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“And when he comes, he will correct the world concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment;”

New American Standard 1977
“And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgment;

King James 2000 Bible
And when he is come, he will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

American Standard Version
And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

New International Version
When he comes, he will prove the world to be in the wrong about sin and righteousness and judgment:

[TABLE="align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]

Expositor's Greek Testament

CHAPTER 16.

John 16:8

And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
John 16:8. καὶ ἐλθὼν ἐκεῖνος … “and when He” (with some emphasis, “that person”) “has come, He will reprove,” or as in R.V[89], “convict the world” “Reprove,” reprobare, to rebut or refute, as in Henry VI., iii., l. 40, “Reprove no allegation if you can,” is no longer used in this sense. The verb ἐλέγξει expresses the idea of pressing home a conviction. The object of this work of the Spirit is “the world” as opposed to Christ; and the subjects regarding which (περὶ) the convictions are to be wrought are “sin, righteousness and judgment”. Regarding these three great spiritual facts, new ideas are to be borne in upon the human mind by the spirit.

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

there is no reason to believe Jesus changes his thought here, and jumps over to people convicted of righteousness...it's nonsense. the idea of the believer being righteous in Christ had not even been developed yet, which makes it even more unlikely that was His point

but you believe what you want

7seasrekeyed · Sep 21, 2017

Nehemiah6 said:

Absolutely correct. That is why Joseph Prince can be fairly called a false teacher, because he claims that the Holy Spirit will convict the believer of righteousness (his other errors have also been addressed by myself). That is both ludicrous and unscriptural. While the KJV uses the word "reprove" in John 16:8, the modern versions use the word "convict" but the meaning remains clear -- He will convict the world of sin, which means He will convict every person who hears the true Gospel that he is a sinner. He will also convince the sinner that he needs the Savior.

King James Bible
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

American Standard Version
And he, when he is come, will convict the world in respect of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

New American Standard Bible
"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;

Holman Christian Standard Bible
When He comes, He will convict the world about sin, righteousness, and judgment:

Young's Literal Translation
and having come, He will convict the world concerning sin, and concerning righteousness, and concerning judgment;

Strong's Concordance

elegchó: to expose, convict, reprove

Original Word: ἐλέγχω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: elegchó
Phonetic Spelling: (el-eng'-kho)
Short Definition: I rebuke, expose
Definition: (a) I reprove, rebuke, discipline, (b) I expose, show to be guilty.

v. 8 is defining 3 parts of the work of the Holy Spirit regarding conviction and has nothing to do with the righteousness of the believer

as I stated above, Jesus does not suddenly quit his thought and go somewhere else.. however it seems some people believe He did and you can begin to see how Prince jumps around to force meanings on scripture that simply are NOT THERE

thanks

7seasrekeyed · Sep 21, 2017

Marc...no offense, but, USING the ESV, the translation YOU used, this site...GOT QUESTIONS...totally disagrees with your interpretation as follows:

Question: "What does it mean that the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment?"

Answer: In John 16:8, Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit: “When [the Spirit] comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment” (ESV). In this verse, we see a three-fold ministry the Spirit will perform in relation to the unsaved world. He will “convict” the world; that is, He will reprove it or show it to be wrong. This reproof will target three areas in which the world needs admonishing: sin, righteousness, and judgment.

Jesus went on to explain: “Concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged” (John 16:9–11, ESV).

source

so I say again, the concensus, even in the ESV, is not what prince is trying to say..so even though it reads somewhat differently, the MEANING is the same as the other translations.

context.

more from the article:

The world is a sinful place, and one of the Holy Spirit’s tasks is to convict the world of its sin. No amount of preaching, pleading, or pointing of fingers will bring about the conviction of sin, unless the Holy Spirit is at work in the sinner’s heart. It is the Spirit’s job to convict. And what is the most basic sin of which the world is guilty? Jesus specifies it as unbelief. The convicting power of the Holy Spirit is at work in the world “because they believe not in [Christ].” Once a person responds to the Spirit’s conviction and turns to faith in Christ, the other sins he practiced will be taken care of. It is the sin of unbelief—a refusal to trust in Jesus—that is primary.

The world must also be convicted of righteousness, and this, too, is something the Holy Spirit does. There is a righteous standard we are all held to, despite the world’s stubborn denial of absolute truth. And who is the standard-bearer of righteousness? Jesus points to Himself as that standard: “Because I go to the Father.” There is only one Person who came down from heaven, lived a life of sinless perfection, and who ascended back to heaven—the Son of Man, who lives to be our Intercessor (John 3:13; 1 Timothy 2:5). The righteousness that the world tries to deny is found demonstrated in Christ. Everything He ever said and did was the consummate expression of God the Father (John 8:28; Colossians 2:9). He is righteousness personified, and none can measure up to Him (Romans 3:23).

7seasrekeyed · Sep 21, 2017

The righteousness that the world tries to deny is found demonstrated in Christ. Everything He ever said and did was the consummate expression of God the Father (John 8:28; Colossians 2:9). He is righteousness personified, and none can measure up to Him (Romans 3:23).

MarcR · Sep 21, 2017

7seasrekeyed said:

Marc...no offense, but, USING the ESV, the translation YOU used, this site...GOT QUESTIONS...totally disagrees with your interpretation as follows:

Question: "What does it mean that the Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment?"

Answer: In John 16:8, Jesus promised to send the Holy Spirit: “When [the Spirit] comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment” (ESV). In this verse, we see a three-fold ministry the Spirit will perform in relation to the unsaved world. He will “convict” the world; that is, He will reprove it or show it to be wrong. This reproof will target three areas in which the world needs admonishing: sin, righteousness, and judgment.

Jesus went on to explain: “Concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged” (John 16:9–11, ESV).

source

so I say again, the concensus, even in the ESV, is not what prince is trying to say..so even though it reads somewhat differently, the MEANING is the same as the other translations.

context.

more from the article:

The world is a sinful place, and one of the Holy Spirit’s tasks is to convict the world of its sin. No amount of preaching, pleading, or pointing of fingers will bring about the conviction of sin, unless the Holy Spirit is at work in the sinner’s heart. It is the Spirit’s job to convict. And what is the most basic sin of which the world is guilty? Jesus specifies it as unbelief. The convicting power of the Holy Spirit is at work in the world “because they believe not in [Christ].” Once a person responds to the Spirit’s conviction and turns to faith in Christ, the other sins he practiced will be taken care of. It is the sin of unbelief—a refusal to trust in Jesus—that is primary.

The world must also be convicted of righteousness, and this, too, is something the Holy Spirit does. There is a righteous standard we are all held to, despite the world’s stubborn denial of absolute truth. And who is the standard-bearer of righteousness? Jesus points to Himself as that standard: “Because I go to the Father.” There is only one Person who came down from heaven, lived a life of sinless perfection, and who ascended back to heaven—the Son of Man, who lives to be our Intercessor (John 3:13; 1 Timothy 2:5). The righteousness that the world tries to deny is found demonstrated in Christ. Everything He ever said and did was the consummate expression of God the Father (John 8:28; Colossians 2:9). He is righteousness personified, and none can measure up to Him (Romans 3:23).

I usually use the KJV; but you used the word convict in that verse and the KJV uses reprove. I searched for a translation that uses the word convict so we could discuss the same text.

Nehemiah6 · Sep 21, 2017

7seasrekeyed said:

And that is further clarified in John 16:10

Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

What did the Lord mean by this?

1. Christ was numbered with the transgressors and crucified as a common criminal. But His resurrection proved that He was indeed the Righteous One and therefore He went to sit at the right hand of the Father after His ascension.

2. When a sinner hears the true Gospel, he must hear that Christ died for his sins according to the Scriptures, that He was buried [entombed], and that He rose again the third day for the sinner's justification. Thus the Holy Spirit will further convict the sinner that unless he is justified by grace through faith in the Righteous One and what He accomplished at Calvary, he will be condemned to Hell.

3. The Lord further said "because ye see me no more". Which means that the sinner must receive Christ -- though invisible -- by faith as both Lord and Savior. Without that faith he will not be saved. When Peter preached to the Jews on the Day of Pentecost, he declared that God had made that same Jesus whom they crucified BOTH Lord and Christ. And because they were convicted of their sins, the Bible says that "they were pricked in their hearts" and immediately asked Peter what they must do. So this must be the response of the convicted sinner who hears the true Gospel (or reads the true Gospel in Scripture).

Joseph Prince treats Gospel truth in a cavalier fashion, and makes up things which should not be said by a genuine preacher of the Word.

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